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The Runway

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    #32
    Stinicker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,102 ✭✭✭Stinicker


    I wonder who paid for the Runway? Another question that springs to mind was would the wings not have been removeable and load it onto a huge lorry and transport it to either Farranfore or Cork to allow it to depart. Also the road by there is quite wide now, could they not have closed the road and used it as a runway? I wonder what would happen nowadays if a learjet or 737 had to make an emergency landing down there?

    One thing I feel we should have done whilst building our Motorway networks was to build stretches of Motorway as runways like they did in Germany, throughout Germany many stretches of the Autobahn have Highway landing strips integrated into them. The autobahn runs in a straight line and is strengthened to runway specifications and rather than the concrete barrier like we have they have easily removable metal barriers.

    The aim in constructing these were to allow for backup military airbases in the event of a Soviet invasion which would target airforce bases, and they could use the Autobahn landing strips as backup for a counter attack.


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    #33
    *Kol*
    Registered Users Posts: 2,549 ✭✭✭*Kol*


    Stinicker wrote: »
    I wonder who paid for the Runway? Another question that springs to mind was would the wings not have been removeable and load it onto a huge lorry and transport it to either Farranfore or Cork to allow it to depart. Also the road by there is quite wide now, could they not have closed the road and used it as a runway? I wonder what would happen nowadays if a learjet or 737 had to make an emergency landing down there?

    It would be cheaper and quicker to put down the runway. It only took them a few weeks to do it. Those wings are not made to be taken off. If you did manage to get them off it would be next to impossible to get them back on.


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    #34
    Delancey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,451 ✭✭✭Delancey


    camlinhall wrote: »
    I disagree. The press lauded and praised the pilot, I've read the articles, and quite clearly they didn't understand the incident at all, and couldn't have appreciated what Lawlor managed to do that day in Cork. But what articles did you see? For God's sake prove me wrong, I'd prefer the happy clappy story.

    Alas I cannot recall the newspapers but I do remember the controllers photo in at least one article plus a radio interview on RTE with him.
    My memory was that the media very much presented this as a ' team effort ' of a good pilot and a good controller who used his local knowledge to great effect.

    Interestingly enough the runway was built following a tender process by none other than the Irish Sugar Company which had a big operation at the time in Mallow. The aircraft insurers coughed up the cost AFAIK.


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    #35
    camlinhall
    Registered Users Posts: 67 ✭✭camlinhall


    That's what I remember as well.
    It was an eyeopener to me how the media could effectively pronounce on an event that only professional pilots could properly comment on, and have everyone to this day going around with the wrong idea. Lawlor couldn't have made a professional comment on the fuel aspect, outside his remit, but he would have known what it meant to fly in circles on low fuel.
    No-one on this thread has addressed that aspect, and all the rest is speculation.
    Any commercial pilots that were around at the time?


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    #36
    Blue Punto
    Registered Users Posts: 834 ✭✭✭Blue Punto


    camlinhall

    What is it exactly you are looking for

    Your own words are "for Gods sake prove me wrong"

    Delancey has stated that he remembers the contriller getting priase in the the press and Itoo remember him being interviewedomn RTE Radio 1(cause my dad called me into the kitchen to listen to it),but this does not seem to be good enough for you.

    Now your looking for commercial pilots that may have been around at that time to comment on the topic

    Do fire/EMS crews get lots of tv coverage for the great work they do everyday of the year ....NO


    I dont know what your looking for but get over it as you have managed to make this topic boring at this stage

    You even have this posted elsewhere on Boards
    "Hardly anyone knows the real story anyway. The captain was no hero, and pretended Shannon ATC didn't save his skin for him. "

    SO TELL THE REAL STORY YOU KNOW

    If not
    MOVE ON
    MOVE ON


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    #37
    camlinhall
    Registered Users Posts: 67 ✭✭camlinhall


    Sorry Blue, you missed it.
    This isn't going away, even if I do. I wouldn't be here at all if "The Runway" hadn't been made. But now the whole country has started talking about what happened. For as long as it's doing the rounds, I'm telling it straight: planes don't keep coming down any old place, and everyone was conned.


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    #38
    Blue Punto
    Registered Users Posts: 834 ✭✭✭Blue Punto


    camlinhall wrote: »
    Sorry Blue, you missed it.
    This isn't going away, even if I do. I wouldn't be here at all if "The Runway" hadn't been made. But now the whole country has started talking about what happened. For as long as it's doing the rounds, I'm telling it straight: planes don't keep coming down any old place, and everyone was conned.

    I didnt miss anything

    In fact I travelled to Mallow to see XA-FOU
    Why bother asking for peoples opinions and then just dismissing them


    As said already it was a great Team effort that got the aircraft down,what more do you want
    I think a letter from Glen Miller/Buddy Holly is outta the question

    As I said MOVE ON


    YAWN


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    #39
    camlinhall
    Registered Users Posts: 67 ✭✭camlinhall


    How do you know what kind of an effort it was? Are you a professional working in the industry, or does that matter?


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    #40
    Blue Punto
    Registered Users Posts: 834 ✭✭✭Blue Punto


    camlinhall wrote: »
    How do you know what kind of an effort it was? Are you a professional working in the industry, or does that matter?


    Well if I am you you must know more anyway.:rolleyes:


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    #41
    camlinhall
    Registered Users Posts: 67 ✭✭camlinhall


    Fair enough. So having worked in the industry as you say, what were the professionals you worked with saying?


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    #42
    Blue Punto
    Registered Users Posts: 834 ✭✭✭Blue Punto


    this happened before my time in the industry
    (which I have since left)
    And as with any incident a good outcome is the most important factor and its what anyone in the aviation industry would want

    This incident had one thanks to the ATC and pilot skill

    Again I dont know what your looking for as you wont say but you do say
    YOU KNOW THE REAL STORY

    So give it and get it off your chest

    Im just going to avoid this topic from now as its just repeditive and boring

    Best of luck


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    #43
    camlinhall
    Registered Users Posts: 67 ✭✭camlinhall


    OK Blue, thanks
    Actually I've previously explained the point of starting this thread, but obviously explained so badly that I'm the only one who gets it. Fair enough so.
    But one more thing: forums like this might be plagued with bores like me, but it's worth it if it means everything is now out in the open.
    Merry Christmas one and all.


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    #44
    *Kol*
    Registered Users Posts: 2,549 ✭✭✭*Kol*


    camlinhall wrote: »
    Sorry Blue, you missed it.
    This isn't going away, even if I do. I wouldn't be here at all if "The Runway" hadn't been made. But now the whole country has started talking about what happened. For as long as it's doing the rounds, I'm telling it straight: planes don't keep coming down any old place, and everyone was conned.

    I have missed something. What was the con?

    It's a nice story. Plane lands on racecourse. Runway built. Plane takes off again. Nobody died in the process. Maybe the ATC guy deserved more credit for what he did. After all these years does it really matter?


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    #45
    camlinhall
    Registered Users Posts: 67 ✭✭camlinhall


    I think it does: we do better being informed of the way in which aircraft are operated safely, and when they're not. This is more relevant than ever, there's far more of them overhead than in 1983. But take it on trust that all is well, and maybe it is....
    Anyway, it's obvious that the contributors to this thread consider the finer points of fuel management a bit pedantic.
    I hate pedants, but I love to go on and on.


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    #46
    cyrusdvirus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,752 ✭✭✭cyrusdvirus


    is it just me or does anyone else think that camlinhall knows this 'Lawlor' chap (i assume he was the ATC on duty on the day)

    And I also think that your posts are not making a whole pile of sense.

    Blue has invited you to say your say from your point of view and you haven't.


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    #47
    camlinhall
    Registered Users Posts: 67 ✭✭camlinhall


    I tried and failed miserably.


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    #48
    cyrusdvirus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,752 ✭✭✭cyrusdvirus


    camlinhall wrote: »
    I tried and failed miserably.

    Where did you try?

    I only see a series of posts by you saying that the pilot was an idiot, and that the ATC guy deserves tons of credit, but the media at the time got it arseways and gave the pilot credit while totally overlooking the ATC guy.

    Yet Delancey and Blue both remember the incident in question and that the ATC guy DID in fact get credit for the part he played.

    have i missed something? Should we take this thread to the C.T. forum? Was it all an IRA plot to get Shergar out of the country?

    Are you just posting for the sake of posting? Am i?


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    #49
    camlinhall
    Registered Users Posts: 67 ✭✭camlinhall


    Look here, Gatecrash. There's only room for one bore on this thread, and that's me.
    But seeing as you ask, quite reasonably:
    My point is just this...
    If you're down to your diversion fuel but you're not diverting to the airport with good weather, which is what happened, you're not doing a great job, and if it was me having that bad day (imagine), I'd have lost my license. (I've heard, but can't verify that Ocana, the pilot, suffered that fate ultimately).
    But apparently I'm making no sense here. Sorry about that.


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    #50
    cyrusdvirus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,752 ✭✭✭cyrusdvirus


    camlinhall wrote: »
    Look here, Gatecrash. There's only room for one bore on this thread, and that's me.
    But seeing as you ask, quite reasonably:
    My point is just this...
    If you're down to your diversion fuel but you're not diverting to the airport with good weather, which is what happened, you're not doing a great job, and if it was me having that bad day (imagine), I'd have lost my license. (I've heard, but can't verify that Ocana, the pilot, suffered that fate ultimately).
    But apparently I'm making no sense here. Sorry about that.

    But he was in the process of diverting. He wasn't still circling Shannon when he had to land in Mallow, he was already on his way to Cork.

    Ok, he had to perform an emergency landing due to fuel starvation, and that shows that he spent too long in the Shannon hold.

    You seem to have a genuine gripe about this, in the 3rd post you wrote
    camlinhall wrote:
    But what happened? The press reported he ran too low on fuel to make Cork, having spent all the fuel he needed to get to Cork in circling Shannon for a break in the weather. That's an aviation no-no. But then he struts his stuff around Mallow for a few glorious weeks codding everyone and forgetting to mention Lawlor in Shannon ATC who saved his skin. Even the National papers fell for it. Now that the event is back in the news, can anyone explain how we were all made to look like jackasses?

    Are you annoyed about the publicity that this is getting because you were one of people 'made look like jackasses'?

    Was this pilot your hero, and he's the one who made you get interested in aviation? And you subsequently found out that he wasn't the greatest pilot who ever strapped a plane to his back (an honour reserved for Chuck Yeager imho) and that's why you are so full of annoyance about this?

    I honestly don't understand your reasons for posting here??

    Yeah, there is a film out, and from what i can gather there appears to be a good deal of 'tweeeee' about it, but the film is only loosely based on the actual events.


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    #51
    camlinhall
    Registered Users Posts: 67 ✭✭camlinhall


    OK so!


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    #52
    cyrusdvirus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,752 ✭✭✭cyrusdvirus


    :confused::confused:


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    #53
    camlinhall
    Registered Users Posts: 67 ✭✭camlinhall


    I'm a broken man


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    #54
    bkehoe
    Registered Users Posts: 2,153 ✭✭✭bkehoe


    camlinhall wrote: »
    I'm a broken man

    Is your grievance with the fact that the media portrayed the pilot as a hero rather than someone who committed incredibly bad airmanship by either not monitoring his fuel through logs and/or instruments and who possibly knowingly broke the law by holding at Shannon while eating into his alternate and final reserve fuel in the hope that the weather would improve?


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    #55
    cyrusdvirus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,752 ✭✭✭cyrusdvirus


    bkehoe wrote: »
    Is your grievance with the fact that the media portrayed the pilot as a hero rather than someone who committed incredibly bad airmanship by either not monitoring his fuel through logs and/or instruments and who possibly knowingly broke the law by holding at Shannon while eating into his alternate and final reserve fuel in the hope that the weather would improve?

    I think it's more with us at this stage, because whatever point he's trying to make is clear in his mind..... just not so clear when he tried to transcribe it to the screen


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    #56
    camlinhall
    Registered Users Posts: 67 ✭✭camlinhall


    That's it... You made sense of the muddle.
    Anyway I was deeply ashamed at the time of the hero worship by my own crowd of a pilot that got out of a bad hole of his own making. With the inspired support of Shannon ATC he played an important part himself (if hardly heroic, he saved his skin, and who wouldn't) in making sure things didn't get any worse. But it made people, especially in Mallow, look like clowns among the international flying fraternity, as I suppose you can imagine.
    That was 1983.
    But now it's back in the news.
    Jeez...


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