When was kayfabe broken in the Attitude Era?

jaykhunter

Hey guys, watching Slammiversary and hearing Taz use so many insider terms; the worst of which being "he called an audible" (even if it were used somewhat erroniously) got me thinking; when, in the Attitude Era, did wrestlers break kayfabe on TV? I know this stuff is more WCW than WWF... Can you list instances when kayfabe was broken in the WWF and WCW from 97-2001?

I'll start us off :

WWF :
Marc Mero calls Sal Sincere a "jobber", outing him as Tom Brandi.
Similarly, The Rock coins the term 'jabroni'.

WCW :
The Fingerpoke of Doom

I'm looking moreso for WWF instances; since they're the top company; and their general keeping of kayfabe

gimmick

Wasn't "The Curtain Call" the official death of it? From there, it was almost completely forgotten about.

jaykhunter

The curtain call was a fan-cam at an MSG house show; not on TV so i don't really count it as breaking kayfabe if u know what i mean? (if i remember correctly; it was only mentioned over a year later by hhh?)

I'm pretty sure in general WWF kept kayfabe; so instances of them breaking it is what i'm interested in!

Machismo Fan

They broke it quite regularly, things like Al Snow saying Steve Blackman's too boring to get over and needs a gimmick. Plus the announcers used 'insider words' regularly, which being honest are only insider if viewed from that perspective and normally can be applicable to the situation (like the Taz example from above).

MitchKoobski

Yeah I think MSG was the first big time, but I'd like to hear some more!

gimmick

Well, didn't ECW completely break constantly, which kind of forced WWEs hand?

drayme

Tried finding the video but I well remember Paul Heyman dropping the bombshell that Brian Christopher was Jerry Lawler's son on the 6/16/97 Raw during Christopher vs Candido USWA vs ECW match while on commentary. Lawler came to ringside and slapped Paul around.

MitchKoobski

I remember from the ECW DVD, they were the first to show how moves went wrong and how exactly the wrestlers were injured e.g. Sabu's neck.

drayme

Dont forget the sit down interviews Goldust and Foley had with JR. Goldust acknowledging he was Dustin Rhodes, Dusty's son etc. Foley that he was Cactus Jack, Mick Foley etc.

MitchKoobski wrote: »

I remember from the ECW DVD, they were the first to show how moves went wrong and how exactly the wrestlers were injured e.g. Sabu's neck.

That's not true the spin on that was that Benoit was ruthless in breaking his neck hence ECW gave him the Crippler nickname. It wasnt portrayed as an accident.

duuuaaaane

Late 1997 when HHH & HBK did the parody of the Ultimate Warrior/HHH WM12 match on RAW, then when HBK began 'crying', HHH refered to 'losing his smile'.. thats one I can think of..

GTR63

Didn't the Montreal screwjob break Kayfabe as much as any moment ever

MitchKoobski

drayme wrote: »

That's not true the spin on that was that Benoit was ruthless in breaking his neck hence ECW gave him the Crippler nickname. It wasnt portrayed as an accident.

Actually Joey Styles was calling him the Crippler before he broke his neck, during the match even.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qeMBMnyayjQ

And this was the second time it happened:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urMGVJwu1co

Can't find the exact clip where they pointed out on camera where the move went wrong, they did the whole arrows on the screen thingy, gonna take me way too long to root through the Rise and Fall dvd to find it....

ciff

What's the kayfabe?

drayme

ciff wrote: »

What's the kayfabe?

Kind of a wrestler code. Revolving around that Pro Wrestling is real and all rivalries are legitimate. There are nuances to it but that is mainly it.

killeoinisback

Really Kayfabe was broken with the introduction of the internet...

jaykhunter

uwwedoogie wrote: »

Late 1997 when HHH & HBK did the parody of the Ultimate Warrior/HHH WM12 match on RAW, then when HBK began 'crying', HHH refered to 'losing his smile'.. thats one I can think of..

was that the Christmas episode of RAW where HHH won the European title? I wouldn't class that as a shoot since 'both characters were in on it'; JR said 'well they got one over on us' etc.

In general, even today, it seems WWE generally keep strict kayfabe. I know Cornette used to do these ~minute long vignettes where he'd shoot on WCW (it's surreal watching it now) which definitely broke kayfabe.

i know there's more we're overlooking!

waltersobchak

Brian Pillman getting Bobby Heenan worked up enough to say fu*k live on PPV

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_kNeKF9G84

jaykhunter

Sounded like Shavon-tayy dropped the f-bomb!

parker kent

I'd say the Attitude Era promo videos are THE moment. When you hear Bret Hart or Steve Austin at the end of a video saying "This isn't real, try lacing my boots", kayfabe has been broken on a mass stage.

Vince would have broken kayfabe in other spheres, but that is the biggest on screen moment on an actual WWF TV show that I can think of at the minute.

parker kent

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saLsqSVNsNo

jaykhunter

Fantastic point PK, that's really kayfabe shattering. Not the worst as it's a vignette and not technically on the show, if that makes sense?

Any more instances u can think of?

parker kent

Yeah it still is not kayfabe breaking as part of the show. I think Vince Russo would be the instigator of a lot of kayfabe breaking as part of the show. Things like mentioning shoot on Raw. I remember I used to read Raw Magazine and he loved that aspect and talking about "intelligent" fans.

duuuaaaane

I wouldn't say that's Kayfabe shattering. It's defending it if anything, when they say "This isn't real", they're not making a point, they're saying "If you think this isn't real, then step in my shoes and you'll see its very real"...

drayme

uwwedoogie wrote: »

I wouldn't say that's Kayfabe shattering. It's defending it if anything, when they say "This isn't real", they're not making a point, they're saying "If you think this isn't real, then step in my shoes and you'll see its very real"...

Yeah, I saw the same "step in the ring then" settlement in 80s Wrestling.

rossie1977

outside of their own programming you can go right back to the steriod and hazing controversies in 1991-92, that for me was the first time wwf stars starting breaking kayfabe on tv, everyone and their mother was at it on tv shows like arsenio hall, larry king, seeing vince sat beside dave meltzer on donahue must have been quite a sight for wrestling fans back in the day

after that ecw destroyed kayfabe totally, austin and pillmans first promos e.g, i think by 1996-97 wwf themselves were breaking it most weeks on tv, the mr mcmahon character, dx, angry bret hart

parker kent

uwwedoogie wrote: »

I wouldn't say that's Kayfabe shattering. It's defending it if anything, when they say "This isn't real", they're not making a point, they're saying "If you think this isn't real, then step in my shoes and you'll see its very real"...

Those promos were pretty universally accepted as saying "we may be entertainers in a scripted show, but we are athletic and get injured".

sky88

didnt vince call taker mark callaway once during the ministry of darkness feud

Why_So_Serious?

sky88 wrote: »

didnt vince call taker mark callaway once during the ministry of darkness feud

from what i can remember he did when stephanie was meant too have been kidnapped.

but a lot of the main cases have already being mentioned, the kliq in MSG when HHH got buried for it (pity he wasnt kept buried) and the screwjob.

Ridley

Technically Mankind's joke: congratulating Al Snow's endorsement with the La-Z-Boy company because he doesn't normally sell chairs.

parker kent

Ridley wrote: »

Technically Mankind's joke: congratulating Al Snow's endorsement with the La-Z-Boy company because he doesn't normally sell chairs.

Even the name of Al Snow's Job Squad was kayfabe breaking.

Dancor

drayme wrote: »

Lawler came to ringside and slapped Paul around

Was this legit or storyline?

drayme

Dancor wrote: »

Was this legit or storyline?

Kayfabe to promote the USWA vs ECW storyline and the eventual match between Dreamer and Lawler at Hardcore Heaven 97.

Connorzee

a bit like...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhSYRbNQ91c

2nd Row Donkey

^^^ Awesome.


Who was that at ringside around 01.55 .. is that teddy Long?

parker kent

I remember watching that Raw, that was my introduction to ECW. I remember Sabu diving off the Raw sign the week after. The start of a beautiful relationship between me and ECW :P

Charisteas

2nd Row Donkey wrote: »

^^^ Awesome.


Who was that at ringside around 01.55 .. is that teddy Long?

That's Clarence Mason.

WWE.com did a 'Where Are They Now' interview with him here- http://www.wwe.com/superstars/wherearetheynow/clarencemason

Mart0

Kayfabe was absolutely obliterated when The New Ages Outlaws pushed Mick foley and Terry Funk off the stage in a dumpster.
It was supposedly a ploy to keep up with ECW and show that WWF is just as real as them and at the same time humanizing "Extreme wrestling", Showing what happens when someone is legitamtly thrown into a massively dangerous spot "In real life".
You could argue that it didn't break kayfabe at all since it was a work, But watch the video and tell me that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBrNmkRmEfc

Mart0

Also you could say that Owen's death broke kayfabe in a massive and unfortunate way when JR had to explain it wasn't part of a "Wrestling storyline or angle"

Charisteas

There was a famous Jim Ross quote from the attitude era, during a ladder or TLC match involving the Hardy Boyz, he says "How do you learn to fall from a 20 foot ladder?!" and that quote was used for a couple of years afterwards in promo videos.

Actually here's a video of Jim Ross breaking kayfabe several times -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDh8ZGpDAlg

drayme

Mart0 wrote: »

Kayfabe was absolutely obliterated when The New Ages Outlaws pushed Mick foley and Terry Funk off the stage in a dumpster.
It was supposedly a ploy to keep up with ECW and show that WWF is just as real as them and at the same time humanizing "Extreme wrestling", Showing what happens when someone is legitamtly thrown into a massively dangerous spot "In real life".
You could argue that it didn't break kayfabe at all since it was a work, But watch the video and tell me that.

Them running in at the end of the main event THE SAME NIGHT broke kayfabe. :pac:

SmarkAttack

Eire-Dearg

Vince needs to watch that video again.

Kess73

sky88 wrote: »

didnt vince call taker mark callaway once during the ministry of darkness feud

He did that a number of times. Face Vince did it to heel taker, and heel Vince also did it to face Taker.

He also called Kane Glen during one of the Brothers of Destruction team ups. Think it was about the time that Kane/Taker were feuding with heel versions of HHH and Austin.

Kess73

Think he also called a lot of the Ministry members by their real names before the corporation merged with the Ministry.

Hashtag_HEEL

SmarkAttack wrote: »

WOW! How far the mighty have fallen!

jaykhunter

Welcome to pw boards SmarkAttack! That video is a blast from the past. I didn't fully comprehend the video as a kid. I thought "yeah, i know! I've eyes don't I?" This is much better kind of kayfabe breaking, it's not necessarily part of the show, but it's a concession about the big direction change that'd been building for a good while

A Primal Nut

D-X broke kayfabe a lot in the beginning; such as showing the MSG incident on tv and rubbing it in Vince's face. Also, all the references from Shawn and others throughout blaming Vince for their problems, despite the fact that Vince wasn't announced yet WWF owner was sort of kayfabe-breaking. I think Jim Ross was the first to refer to Vince as owner in 1996.

A lot of the stuff between Shawn and Bret in the run up to Survivor Series 1997 referred to real-life tensions between them.