Saudi Women Driving

biko

Just wanted to push a bit for this campaign if that ok with local mods.
Please feel free to move if this is in the wrong place.

As you may know Saudi women aren't allowed to drive, because of a religious fatwa.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gke1CYaKVOY

The ban against women driving in Saudi Arabia dates all the way back to a 1991 fatwa issued by the late grand mufti against gender “mixing,” according to embassy cables released by WikiLeaks.
The grand mufti claimed that allowing women to drive would result in public ‘mixing’ of women, put women into dangerous situations because they could be alone in cars, and therefore result in social chaos.

If you, like me, think this is ridiculous then please check out the facebook group and other ways to support women in “the world's largest women's prison.”

Silverfish

Here are the Facebook pages:

Saudi Women Driving Campaign

and

Saudi Women Drivers


I know I (we?) get annoyed sometimes at the 'women drivers' jokes and digs, but imagine not being permitted to drive.

Cill Dara Abu

Women should be banned from driving in this country aswell:p

Silverfish

Cill Dara Abu wrote: »

Women should be banned from driving in this country aswell:p

Banned, 7 days.

krudler

Backwards fcuking country

WesternNight

This is one of those things that I just can't quite identify with, and I'm grateful that I've not been in a position that makes it easy to identify.

Obviously this kind of thing should never happen. Especially not in the name of any religion, because I think it makes people afraid to really properly speak up about it for fear of offending peoples' religious sensibilities.

It kind of surprises me that it's only been since 1991. I wonder what the reaction was at the time.

Macha

biko, the ban on women driving goes back a lot further than 1991.

Ickle Magoo

Was the facebook page not closed down?

While I really can't stand the whole women are just chattels that don't deserve equal rights being insidiously wrapped as women being delicate little flowers that require protecting from the dangers they wrought on themselves by virtue of being women that is celebrated under sharia law, not being able to drive would be the tip of the ice berg of changes that I'd like to see...but as any woman deemed "rebellious" automatically gives the green light to get beaten I won't be holding my breath. :mad:

philologos

IMO, young single males are treated worse in Saudi Arabia, being regarded as deviants and being refused from shopping centers. Link here.

Ickle Magoo

philologos, this is the ladies lounge and as the thread title alludes to; the discussion is saudi women & driving. It isn't a competition - if you wish to discuss young single males then please use the appropriate forum.

The forum charter for tLL can be found here.

As per site protocol, if you wish to discuss any moderating request or action on this forum please PM me or one of my co-mods.

Cheap Thrills!

biko wrote: »

....bla bla bla.......
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.....................The grand mufti claimed .....................
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...all hail the grand mufti.........:cool:

Silverfish

Cheap Thrills!, please read the charter.

If you want to make jokes on a serious topic, I'm sure there's a forum somewhere around here for that.


I'm putting a final warning on this thread, any more posts not in line with the thread topic and charter will be met with a ban.

gargleblaster

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

Was the facebook page not closed down?

I read that the original one was, yes. However several similar ones have sprung up in its place, and the YouTube video is still up.

SA may have thought they could somehow avoid social media being used to avoid social change, but it doesn't look like people are so willing to simply tolerate the status quo anymore.

biko

Macha wrote: »

biko, the ban on women driving goes back a lot further than 1991.

Source?
I find several mentions of 1991. For instance http://saudilife.net/component/content/article/48-nation/211-fuller-view-on-women-driving-in-saudi-arabia.html

rainbow kirby

The formal ban goes back to 1991, when there was a demonstration in Riyadh by women drivers. The informal ban goes back a lot further than that.

Ickle Magoo

I can't find a source suggesting it was EVER acceptable for women to drive in Saudi - bar foreign women/those with foreign licences in private compounds. There just didn't used to be a specific ban - they just refused to give licences to female applicants.

Javan

I believe the informal ban actually goes all the way back to the original licensing laws in the kingdom. The situation is actually that anyone who has a license issued by the Saudi authorities can drive in the country, but the licensing authority never issues licenses to women. (ref http://abna.ir/data.asp?lang=3&id=246786 ).

I have a small amount of personal experience of this. My father worked in Saudi through the 80's, and I have visited Riyadh on business over the past few years.

I visited my father in Dhahran in the summer of 1987 and we talked about this a bit. I remember one evening visiting some friends of his who lived on a local compound. The mother of the family was talking about how she had to get dressed to go in to the city center malls (meaning she had to be almost completely covered) and how she was quite worried any time she had to take the car in case she was arrested.

Jaafa

This really is a ridiculous law. A result of a government with complete control over its population. Muslims who can't or aren't allowed to think for themselves and a populus who have enough money to not care about much else. If there was any country that needed a revolution its Saudi. This coming from a fairly conservative Muslim male. :P

Stheno

What I always find bizarre about this ban is that if Saudi women do not have male relatives to drive them, they can hire live in drivers (essentially strangers) to drive them.

Kinda contradicts the whole no *non relatives* mixing of the genders?

WesternNight

Stheno wrote: »

What I always find bizarre about this ban is that if Saudi women do not have male relatives to drive them, they can hire live in drivers (essentially strangers) to drive them.

Kinda contradicts the whole no *non relatives* mixing of the genders?

Not to mention this "for their own safety" bit as well..

Silverfish

For anyone who's interested..

Protest over Saudi woman arrested for challenging driving ban

It is important for women's rights throughout the world that these women be supported. To that end a picket will be placed on the Saudi embassy in Dublin at 6-7 Fitzwilliam Square East on Friday June 17th from 3 to 4 p.m. to coincide with the protest in Saudi.

Ellis Dee

Stheno wrote: »

What I always find bizarre about this ban is that if Saudi women do not have male relatives to drive them, they can hire live in drivers (essentially strangers) to drive them.

Kinda contradicts the whole no *non relatives* mixing of the genders?

Yes, it is peculiar, but can we be sure that the live-in drivers are not required to be eunuchs? Stranger things have and are happening in that bizzare country. Or else they live in separate quarters in the home and certainly have no illusions about the fate that would await them if they even looked crooked at a woman or spoke in an inappropriate tone of voice.

Morag

It's not law, there is no legal impediment to women driving it is a religious edict which is being enforced.

Javan

Ellis Dee wrote: »

Yes, it is peculiar, but can we be sure that the live-in drivers are not required to be eunuchs? Stranger things have and are happening in that bizzare country. Or else they live in separate quarters in the home and certainly have no illusions about the fate that would await them if they even looked crooked at a woman or spoke in an inappropriate tone of voice.

I can tell you they are not eunuchs. Having met a few personal drivers over there I can tell you that any I've seen have been perfectly normal men, many with families back in their home countries. They are often Philipino or Malaysian. While the wage they make as drivers is poor by European standards, they are able to provide quite well for their families.

As to what would happen if they were abusive towards their employers; in the vast majority of cases they would be sacked. Since they are in the kingdom on a work visa that means they would have to leave the country. Possibly with a word from their employer that would get their passport blacklisted so they would be refused a visa in the future.

Javan

Sharrow wrote: »

It's not law, there is no legal impediment to women driving it is a religious edict which is being enforced.

Not true Sharrow. There is a very clear legal impediment: a woman in Saudi can never hold a driving license because the licensing authority never issues licenses to women, and only licenses issued in the Kingdom are valid there.

Wibbs

Yes but AFAIR there's no actual legal impediment to issuing one they simply don't because of the religious background.

Ickle Magoo

It's kind of both isn't it? While there is no legal directive prohibiting women drivers, the refusal to issue any licences to women ensures no woman can drive legally.

Ben Yafa

By the way this is not religious that women can't drive because 66 muslim country women drive cars and in earlier ages women were horse riders, I have been in Saudi Arabia for 3 years, the richiest business women on earth are in Saudi Arabia, when we talk about salaries women earn at least triple the man does, this is from my personal experience, but i heard the new revolutions around Saudi Arabia may force it to give women driving permit, still wishing you all the best

Stheno

Ben Yafa wrote: »

By the way this is not religious that women can't drive because 66 muslim country women drive cars and in earlier ages women were horse riders,

I read an article last night that women outside urban areas, and e.g. Bedouin women drive, and a blind eye is turned to it.

The article also went into some detail as to how religion has no part to play (even Sharia) in terms of women being disallowed to drive.

I have been in Saudi Arabia for 3 years, the richiest business women on earth are in Saudi Arabia,

Not according to forbes?

Have you a link to back that up?

when we talk about salaries women earn at least triple the man does, this is from my personal experience,

I find that hard to believe of a country where a small minority of women actually work, have you got a link?

Javan

Stheno wrote: »

I find that hard to believe of a country where a small minority of women actually work, have you got a link?

There are very many inequalities in Saudi society. One of them is that there is a pay scale that has nothing to do with the work you do, but rather where you come from.
In any given field of work a native-born Saudi will be paid more than an expat, generally an American expat will be paid more than a European expat, a European will be paid more than an Indian and an Indian will be paid more than a Philipino or Malaysian.
That can easily lead to a case where a Saudi or American woman is better paid than a European or Indian man.

Note that there are rules related to the 'Saudization' of businesses in the Kingdom. Employers there are rated on the ratio of native to expat staff, and if they fail to meet official requirements their expat staff can be refused visas when it comes to renewal time. This leads to a situation where a company has Saudi staff that are better paid and do less work than their expat colleagues.

I cant find any references on gender pay equality, but basically there are so many inequalities in that country that I would not be in the least bit surprised to find a woman earning considerably more than a man depending on her nationality and background. Of course, the opposite is also true.

boomchicawawa

We hear so much from Saudi and Iran etc about the protection of woman with burka's etc. Can the men of these countries not be trusted to be in the company of women without losing control of themselves, it says a lot about sexual frustration of behalf of Muslim men. They appear to have as much freedom as they like. They should be segregated if they cant be trusted. It also annoys me when women in some Middle Eastern countries are not allowed vote. I know Kuwait was like this, not sure if its changed. It means a top career woman (Surgeon, Oncologist, Lawyer etc) has no say and a lazy dead beat guy has a vote that counts more than her !!? Thank God we live in a democracy and all can vote, its something we take for granted but when you are denied it, you really must resent it.

Ben Yafa

Check this link which includes some articles for Arab Womes Billionaires the link in Arabic,

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/arabic/ar-arabian-business-women-2008

Why Arab women are not in Forbes the same reason other world billionares didn't appear in Forbes, I used to work as Event Executive in one of the most luxurious hotels in the world located in Saudi Arabia and business women were coming regularly to have birthday parties, graduation or weddings and that cost between 150,000 Euro and 250,000 Euro and sometimes they used to bring it in cash and sometimes we used organise those parties in their houses what houses? Castles, you just imagine those places in dreams or fiction many are CEO's and the cash flow to business women in Saudi Banks are 7 Billion US dollar from the financial statstics report in Saudi Arabia and they estimated to at least 10 times bigger then this amount in foriegn banks, for your information the Arabic lady charecter is a very strong one ask anyone who knew any arabic women, 75% of Saudi students in Ireland are females located in several universities and institutes in Ireland.

I wish that was helpful, best regards

Ben Yafa

boomchicawawa wrote: »

We hear so much from Saudi and Iran etc about the protection of woman with burka's etc. Can the men of these countries not be trusted to be in the company of women without losing control of themselves, it says a lot about sexual frustration of behalf of Muslim men. They appear to have as much freedom as they like. They should be segregated if they cant be trusted. It also annoys me when women in some Middle Eastern countries are not allowed vote. I know Kuwait was like this, not sure if its changed. It means a top career woman (Surgeon, Oncologist, Lawyer etc) has no say and a lazy dead beat guy has a vote that counts more than her !!? Thank God we live in a democracy and all can vote, its something we take for granted but when you are denied it, you really must resent it.

Women can't vote? where is that ? this is the first time I hear that, there is something is quit funny I always see people that they think Arabs are muslims which is not true, there is 11% Arab christians, second thing many people have never left their homes and they make judgments on people from the other part of the world like the others are Aliens which is not, the human being here or there is the same we live, we fight for freedom, equality and justice and Arabia is cosisted for more then 42 other races who migrated and settled there from all over the world since decades or centuries because they were and always feel home, negative views on media is directed because the main owners of world media are the same crew and they have issues with Palistaine so those media orgs directed media to charge the world with negative thoughts only you will know that if you expereinced the live there you would probably settle there

Stheno

Ben Yafa wrote: »

Check this link which includes some articles for Arab Womes Billionaires the link in Arabic,

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/arabic/ar-arabian-business-women-2008

Why Arab women are not in Forbes the same reason other world billionares didn't appear in Forbes, I used to work as Event Executive in one of the most luxurious hotels in the world located in Saudi Arabia and business women were coming regularly to have birthday parties, graduation or weddings and that cost between 150,000 Euro and 250,000 Euro and sometimes they used to bring it in cash and sometimes we used organise those parties in their houses what houses? Castles, you just imagine those places in dreams or fiction many are CEO's and the cash flow to business women in Saudi Banks are 7 Billion US dollar from the financial statstics report in Saudi Arabia and they estimated to at least 10 times bigger then this amount in foriegn banks, for your information the Arabic lady charecter is a very strong one ask anyone who knew any arabic women, 75% of Saudi students in Ireland are females located in several universities and institutes in Ireland.

I wish that was helpful, best regards

No, it wasn't helpful as it's in Arabic? It could be about anything?

The photos would indicate that a fairly large amount of those women are not Saudis given the lack of headdress etc that they are wearing.

Imo, your observations from your work experience are not backing up your claims, and you don't appear to have any verifiable way to do so, so I'm really not accepting your argument.

Women can't vote? where is that ? this is the first time I hear that, there is something is quit funny

In the municipal elections in 2005 women were not allowed vote in KSA and other countries in which women are not granted the right to vote include UAE up to 2010 Lebanon (partial rights based on educational attainment)and Vatican City

I always see people that they think Arabs are muslims which is not true, there is 11% Arab christians, second thing many people have never left their homes and they make judgments on people from the other part of the world like the others are Aliens which is not, the human being here or there is the same we live, we fight for freedom, equality and justice and Arabia is cosisted for more then 42 other races who migrated and settled there from all over the world since decades or centuries because they were and always feel home, negative views on media is directed because the main owners of world media are the same crew and they have issues with Palistaine so those media orgs directed media to charge the world with negative thoughts only you will know that if you expereinced the live there you would probably settle there

This is completely off topic and in no way relevant to the thread.

Ben Yafa

you can use the instant translation if you have internet expolrer 8, by shading the text or or use google instant translater most of those women are CEO's from several Arab countries including Saudi Arabia, by the way I am not a big fan of Saudi Arabia although it is a neighbour country to my own country, so I have stated facts from personal and general information you needed document I provided you with one don't make me feel that I defend those capitalists because that is against my socialist values

Ben Yafa

Here is some names of some Saudi Business Women;

Mrs. Nahed Taher
CEO Gulf One Investment Bank

Mrs. Lama Al Suliman
Head of Khadeja Bent Khouiled the Saudi Business Women Centre

Mrs. Lubna Olayan
CEO of Olyan Group (The Financial Companies)

Mrs. Nashwa Al Taher
CEO of Al Taher Group

Those are few names that I could extract from above listed website for the Saudi Business Women mentioned in it.

Ickle Magoo

Ben Yafa - this is the Ladies Lounge, primarily a place for the women of boards to discuss issues of interest to them, from their perspective.

While you are clearly feeling defensive, posting links to articles that are not in English with the expectation that posters translate or listing business women as if that obliterates the very real and well publicised issues that women encounter in parts of the middle east is really not adding anything of use to the discussion.

Could I ask that before posting again you please read the forum charter here and respect the ethos of this forum.

Many thanks.

Javan

Without wanting to get involved in any personal comments, I think this thread is showing a fair bit of 'there be dragons' thinking about Saudi and about Arab peoples. Actually many Arab nations are surprisingly cosmopolitan.

Saudi Arabia is without doubt the religiously conservative state in the region, and there are huge gaping inequities and injustices brought about by that conservatism.
The OP pointed out one of those inequities; the effective (if inconsistently enforced) ban on women driving. Other issues include pay scales that have nothing to do with ability or work rate, sexual and social segregation that sees women excluded from places unless accompanied by a close male relative, and single men excluded from places where there might be single women. Expats are segregated from the population to the extent that most westerners live in walled compounds where native Saudis are not welcome.

However at another level Saudi is a very varied and open country. Consider that 20 - 30% of the residents are non-nationals. There are up to 8 million expats working in Saudi at any given time, including people from America, Europe, India and Asia-Pacific. In a normal working day over there you could meet and talk to people from each of these regions. A single business meeting could easily have people from four different continents sitting around the table. That is not so commonplace in Ireland, and from my experience it gives an appreciation that we are a lot more insular and less open-minded then we would like to believe.

Even within the Arab populations there is enormous diversity. Saudis are generally the most devout and conservative in their faith. Bahrain, just a few miles from Saudi's east coast, is no less devout but much less conservative. Up to half of Bahrain's population are non-nationals. Egyptians tend to be much more familiar and comfortable with western ways while still being unmistakably Arab. Palestinians, given their forced exile from their home after the second world war, tend to have the most amazingly varied life stories.

I know this is a long post, but there is a small point to it: while highlighting important issues such as the the injustice faced by women in KSA, it is important to have a little bit of context, and to avoid calling an entire country, people or faith stupid or backwards.

P.S. Google Translate does a surprising good job of translating from Arabic to English.

Ickle Magoo

Javan wrote: »

P.S. Google Translate does a surprising good job of translating from Arabic to English.

That's as may be - on a site that expects posts in the irish language to contain a translation out of courtesy, we would still expect posters to do likewise when presenting claims or posting in any other language.

While I appreciate the point you are making and would hope to avoid any blanket generalisations regarding any country or culture - again, this is the ladies lounge and discussion on issues effecting women. How many of those non-nationals or those partaking in business meetings are women?

Javan

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

While I appreciate the point you are making and would hope to avoid any blanket generalisations regarding any country or culture - again, this is the ladies lounge and discussion on issues effecting women. How many of those non-nationals or those partaking in business meetings are women?

I couldn't tell you exactly.
While doing some fact-checking on my comments before posting I came across this article: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/21/world/asia/21briefs-Philippines.html?_r=1 This suggests that 1.2 million Philipino maids working in Saudi were facing a pay cut from $400/month to $200/month earlier this year.
Anecdotally I know that most households in Riyadh run by Saudis has at least one live-in maid, and these maids are almost exclusively women.

In the business meetings perhaps 5% of the people I've met were women. In Saudi all of these were native, not expat, and they were all in management. All the menial staff in Saudi offices are male. All the women in the workforce (about 500,000 according to Wikipedia) are the most well-educated and the most ambitious. A woman who is not exceptionally good will never get anywhere in the workplace, and social pressures will force her to leave rather than accept a menial job.

forensic

DUBAI, United Arab Emirates - A campaign to defy Saudi Arabia's ban on women driving opened Friday with reports of some female motorists getting behind the wheel amid calls for sustained challenges to the restrictions in the ultraconservative kingdom.


Activists have not appealed for mass protests in any specific sites in Saudi Arabia, but are urging Saudi women to begin a growing mutiny against the male-only driving rules supported by clerics backing austere interpretations of Islam and enforced by powerful morality squads.


Calls for an ongoing road rebellion — inspired in part by the uprisings around the Arab world — could push Western-backed Saudi authorities into difficult choices: either launching a crackdown and facing international pressure or giving way to the demands and angering traditional-minded clerics and other groups opposing reforms.



It also could encourage other challenges by Saudi women, who have not been allowed to vote and must obtain permission from a male guardian to travel or take a job.


"We want women from today to begin exercising their rights," said Wajeha al-Huwaidar, a Saudi women's rights activist who posted Internet clips of herself driving in 2008. "Today on the roads is just the opening in a long campaign. We will not go back."


The plan, she said, is for women who have obtained driving licenses abroad to begin doing their daily errands and commuting on their own.

"We'll keep it up until we get a royal decree removing the ban," she told The Associated Press.


A protest organizer, Benjamin Joffe-Walt, said at least one Saudi woman drove around the capital Riyadh before dawn without incident. Web message boards set up on Twitter and other social media carried unconfirmed reports that some women also got behind the wheel in the eastern city of Dammam and elsewhere.


Encouragement poured in. "Take the wheel. Foot on the gas," said one Twitter message on the main site women2Drive. Another urged: "Saudi women, start your engines!"


The campaign follows the 10-day detention last month of a 32-year-old woman, Manal al-Sherif, after she posted video of herself driving. She was released after reportedly signing a pledge that she would not drive again or speak publicly.


Her case, however, sparked an outcry from international rights groups and brought direct appeals to Saudi's rulers to lift the driving ban on women — the only such countrywide rule in the world.


There is no written Saudi law barring women from driving — only fatwas, or religious edicts, by senior clerics following a strict brand of Islam known as Wahhabism.


They claim the driving ban protects against the spread of vice and temptation because women drivers would be free to leave home alone and interact with male strangers. The prohibition forces families to hire live-in drivers or rely on male relatives to drive.


Saudi King Abdullah has promised some social reforms, but he depends on the clerics to support his ruling family and is unlikely to take steps that would bring backlash from the religious establishment.


In London, the rights groups Amnesty International called Thursday on Saudi officials to "stop treating women as second-class citizens and open the kingdom's roads to women drivers."


"Not allowing women behind the wheel in Saudi Arabia is an immense barrier to their freedom of movement, and severely limits their ability to carry out everyday activities as they see fit, such as going to work or the supermarket, or picking up their children from school," said Philip Luther, Amnesty's deputy director for the Middle East and North Africa.


Earlier this week, a group of women drove around the Saudi Embassy in Washington to protest the kingdom's ban on female drivers. Similar convoys converged on Saudi diplomatic missions in other cities around the world.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/06/17/501364/main20071866.shtml

Just thought I'd post this for anyone looking to keep up to date.

craicster

The Solidarity Demonstration outside the Saudi Embassy in Dublin today was quite successful! They certainly knew we were there. They called the police- and the local station sent down a Ban Gard!!! NICE Lads. Nice..............:D

Pythia

While I agree with the campaign, I think there are a huge number of other problems in Saudi Arabia which have to be dealt with. The whole system is crazy. They aren't going to lift the rule because that wouldn't fit in with their crazy system. We need to be trying to remove the full regime rather than chip away at small parts. Unfortunately with their crazy interpretation of Islam and US backing, nothing will change for a long time I'd say.

biko

Hope it's ok to give this thread a bump.
Apparently the "law" on women drivers will now be properly tested

A Saudi woman is to face trial for defying the country’s ban on female drivers.
Najalaa Harrir was summoned for questioning by the prosecutor general in Jeddah on the same day that Saudi King Abdullah introduced reforms giving women the right to vote and run in local elections four years from now.

If this goes to court and she is acquitted maybe we'll see women drivers and voters in SA *mind is blown*

Victor

Stheno wrote: »

The photos would indicate that a fairly large amount of those women are not Saudis given the lack of headdress etc that they are wearing.

I'm not certain, but I think hearwear only needs to be worn when in (public, male) company. I've seen female Saudi news readers without head dress.

Gilldog

biko wrote: »

Hope it's ok to give this thread a bump.
Apparently the "law" on women drivers will now be properly tested

If this goes to court and she is acquitted maybe we'll see women drivers and voters in SA *mind is blown*

Yes, it will be interesting to see if they make an example of her to try and dissuade others, or use it as a springboard to something more positive for women in the future.
Im sure the pressure will be on because effectively the world is watching.

On the same day it was reported that King Abdullah has announced that women will be able to take a greater part in elections in the future.

Courtesy of CNN:

The king of Saudi Arabia has opened the door to greater participation by women in future municipal elections.
In an address on Saudi state TV, King Abdullah said women will be allowed to nominate candidates for the next set of municipal elections. Although he did not use the word "vote," allowing women to take part in the nomination process would amount to voting within Saudi Arabia's system.
The country is holding municipal elections Thursday for the only the second time in nearly 50 years. The changes the king announced would go into effect for the next set of elections -- and it is unclear when those might take place.

alex73

Saudi woman driver faces 10 lashes

http://www.independent.ie/breaking-news/world-news/saudi-woman-driver-faces-10-lashes-2888801.html

Goes to show you what is wrong with Saudi A.

lilmissprincess

The sentence is disgusting, its really actually shameful to see such harsh punishment on a very stupid law in this day and age. I'm horrified to learn that this kind of thing is still deemed acceptable in parts of the world.

Giselle

Gilldog wrote: »

Courtesy of CNN:

The king of Saudi Arabia has opened the door to greater participation by women in future municipal elections.
In an address on Saudi state TV, King Abdullah said women will be allowed to nominate candidates for the next set of municipal elections. Although he did not use the word "vote," allowing women to take part in the nomination process would amount to voting within Saudi Arabia's system.
The country is holding municipal elections Thursday for the only the second time in nearly 50 years. The changes the king announced would go into effect for the next set of elections -- and it is unclear when those might take place.

Unfortunately I wouldn't get too excited about this just yet.

The king is 88 and is unlikely to be around for 2015, and his appointed successor, Crown Prince Sultan is currently dying in a NYC hospital. The next is line is the incredibly conservative Prince Nayef who has spoken out against women drivers, and isn't likely to be keen to enact the voting rights.

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2011/09/26/all_the_kings_women


I really hope it happens, but I won't be holding my breath.

Giselle

It was just on the news that the sentence of 10 lashes has been revoked by the King.

Even the Saudis aren't immune to international disgust.

Giselle

Giselle wrote: »

It was just on the news that the sentence of 10 lashes has been revoked by the King.

Even the Saudis aren't immune to international disgust.

sometimes they are - didnt that gang raped girl get her sentence increased as a result of going to the media?
i'm glad this woman got off, needless to say