Limerick-Foynes Rail Line

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120925418#Comment_120925418

it's not cheaper, vastly or otherwise if done properly.

the usual nonsense of sticking a bit of paint on the road and calling it a bus lane is no longer acceptable for modern public transport operation, you need dediccated and segregated infrastructure in the absence of car banns in the cities, which should, but won't happen.

we don't know that the line would have low passenger volumes because the places it specifically passes through are not the whole story, and even if it did, it's less motor traffic on the roads.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120925467#Comment_120925467

What idea of "done properly" do you have that deals with a railcar being 10x the price of a bus for maybe 3x the service life, for starters?

You don't not have a realistic idea of the costs.

Trains for trains sake is not the answer for public transport either.

Cookiemunster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120925425#Comment_120925425

There hasn't been a direct curve from the Foynes line into Colbert Station for about 50 years. The bridge over Careys Road was removed in the 70s and the embankment removed on the South side of the road. The Northern embankment is currently being turned into the stations new public car park.

pigtown

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120925425#Comment_120925425

That direct curve was dismantled. The route is preserved in the LDA masterplan for the area but it would require a new bridge and possibly the demolition of a building to reinstate the track

waterwelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120925641#Comment_120925641

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120925655#Comment_120925655

Point is the direct curve is still there, largely unimpeded.

If they were to reopen the line to passengers this would be an obvious part of it.

Not sure why people are saying trains would need to detour a kilometre and reverse.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120923144#Comment_120923144

Trains are not subject to rush hour traffic.

And we need to stop looking at current population and start looking at these projects as sites for future development like we saw in Dublin or many UK cities.

Cookiemunster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120926682#Comment_120926682

Please have a look at google maps and try to find the curve. It's no longer there. The tracks were lifted decades ago and one of the embankments for the former bridge is gone and build on.

This is the North bridge embankment.

And this is where the South bridge embankment was until removed 50 years ago.

It's not getting reinstated any time soon.

waterwelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120926826#Comment_120926826

I'm not suggesting its being reinstated any time soon.

But if they are ever to reopen the line to passengers then it would be reinstated rather than a 1 kilometre detour and reversal as you are suggesting.

Pete_Cavan

How many potential passengers from Adare actually would want to get to Colbert? I'd say not enough to justify even the cost of designing the new curve, nevermind building it.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120926977#Comment_120926977

They'd also have to demolish a heap of houses on Lower Carey's Road would they not? Not an insurmountable issue mind...

Bass Reeves

I am not sure where some posters get a hard on for rail transport. Just say that in theory that the track was reinstated to Colbert station and that it provided some dirt of service from Foynes to Limerick picking up Askeaton ( old station half a mile outside the town) Rathkeale ( new station required and track is a distance outside the town) Adare (new station requires), Patrickswell station a half mile outside the village.

The rail line would only be suitable for people working in the city center with maybe a new stop being possible around the Crescent shopping center. Population covered by this new line would not be much with 10k giving demand at 3-5% maybe 2-600 passengers a days. Investment would probably be double the present requirement or another 80 million for a service that would have 1-2 scheduled services each way a day. This in turn wound impact demand.

There is little in Limerick city center that suggests a train service is viable. While Mary I and the Limerick senior college are just about walkable along with the city center itself there is little worker demand.

Would there in reality be twenty people per urban area using the service per schedule per day. I would very much doubt it.

brianc89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120928149#Comment_120928149

All that waffling and then you assume they would run 2 services per day?! And then you wonder why nobody, obviously, would use such a 'waste of money' service.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120928448#Comment_120928448

The reason they wound only run 2-3 services is because of demand. You cannot conjure up demand. The Galway to Limerick line is an example. From Ennis into Limerick has a much larger population base than Foynes to Limerick. Yet at best ( the and it's a through service from Galway) they have 6 services a day each way yet only one arriving into Limerick at approximately working hours and that is really only suitable for people starting at 9 .30 pm.

If they cannot do commuter from Ennis they cannot on this rail line with a much lower population base. You need hundreds on a train service not ten's

Pete_Cavan

Well Ryan is throwing the guts of €100m at Limerick - Foynes for freight alone, if there was a case for passenger services I'm sure that would be part of the plan. I'd love to see the assessment of the return from this particular investment v the same money being spent elsewhere on the rail network.

It will be interesting to see the result of that investment in a few years time, I wouldn't be surprised if it becomes the subject of a Public Accounts Committee investigation and ultimately results in WRC north of Athenry becoming a Greenway.

Cookiemunster

The line is being reopened for freight because of European directives on connections to core ports.

Shannon Foynes is a Core Corridor Port under the EU’s Ten-t Regulations. These regulations require that upgraded hinterland connections, ie road and rail, are in place by 2030.

https://www.sfpc.ie/shannon-foynes-port-welcomes-tender-for-limerick-to-foynes-rail-reinstatement/

The project wouldn't even have been considered if it wasn't for that. It predates Ryan and it's highly unlikely that there would be any future investigation.

pigtown

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120928846#Comment_120928846

I'd much prefer any investment for passenger rail in the region to go on upgrading existing services to Ennis and Nenagh and provide a much enhanced frequency on these routes.

In the meantime the towns along the Foynes line and the suburbs on all 3 lines should see a concerted effort to direct investment and growth and then in 20 years time see if the demand is there.

This will require an intervention from government to get Limerick Council to change their development plan though which is highly unlikely

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120929395#Comment_120929395

Usual backwards idea of growing the towns and then thinking about facilities. Surely you build the facilities to grow the towns.

Someone above mentioned the Patrickswell station is outside of town. Limerick desperately needs houses so why not build them around the station like happens in many other places.

Also whoever said "station near the Crescent" conveniently left out that the station would be at the back of Raheen Industrial Estate and very close to University Hospital Limerick.

pigtown

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120929429#Comment_120929429

I agree to a point but the main problem is that Patrickwell or Adare or indeed Foynes are not zoned for major growth in the current Plan which will in all liklihood be in effect until 2033. If that doesn't change then a rail passenger service will be a white elephant while actual large towns in the region are underserved by the existing rail services.

It just doesn't make financial sense. And believe me, I'd love nothing more than to be able to get out and about without my car, I'm all for public transport but it needs to be properly planned.

Cookiemunster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120929429#Comment_120929429

Because the 2040 plan is to grow the city cores, not to create larger commuter towns.

And a station near the Crescent would be around 2.5km, as the crow flies, from the industrial estate and a around 3.5 - 4km in reality. That is nowhere near the back of the estate. The hospital would be 1.5km as the crow flies and around 2.5km in reality. Again not very close to the hospital.

I've said many times that Limerick needs to walk before it can run. We currently have a piss poor bus service that can be massively improved on. This poor service already delivers people to the Crescent, to the front gate of the hospital and into the industrial estate and will be much improved under the BusConnects plans. We don't need white elephant rails lines that don't leave people anywhere near their destination.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120930023#Comment_120930023

I must be looking in the wrong place so because the line I see is right up against the back wall of some of the factories.

Cookiemunster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120930125#Comment_120930125

It is, but that isn't anywhere near the Crescent, which was your reference point. And it would be 2.5-3km from any station there to Analog at the front of the estate. Add on another kilometer to the Hospital. At these distances people would continue to drive. BusConnects in the only logical option here.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120930259#Comment_120930259

It wasn't me that mentioned the Crescent. Someone else said "near the Crescent" and I was saying that it would be near far more important things.

Not sure why it would only be of use from the city though. Why is it of no use for someone living in Adare or Patrickswell who works in the industrial estate.

Cookiemunster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120930304#Comment_120930304

See my updated post above. It wouldn't close enough to anywhere to get people out of their cars.

Are the populations of Adare and Patrickswell large enough to justify a train service to the industrial estate? It would probably be quicker to cycle from Patrickswell anyway. And definitely faster to drive.

Again, this line would be solving a problem that won't exist with BusConnects.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120930318#Comment_120930318

Currently the only definite plan is freight outside of that recently published wishlist.

As I said above if they want to do the commuter option it would have to be in conjunction with plans to grow those areas. Just putting the stations is not enough. I don't think we should just plop stations down tomorrow without a plan. I think it's even more important that we look at the same over in Oola.

And your right about the buses. Limerick Bus Connects plan is worth way way more to the city than any train plan currently being looked at in Limerick. We should also have regular city bus services to some satellite towns like Cork has.

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120929320#Comment_120929320

There isn't an explicit requirement for Shannon Foynes to be connected by rail. By Ten-T, a new connection should be electrified but that isn't happening.

Shannon Foynes was only added to Ten-T relatively recently due to Brexit, the only rail corridor on this island up to then was Cork - Dublin. SFPC had commissioned Irish Rail to carry out preliminary assessments and design work rather than government.

The government are now spending taxpayers money (instead of having to finance investments themselves unlike many semi-state companies) so it is absolutely open to investigation by the PAC.

Cookiemunster

If you read my post properly you'll find that I never said that it wasn't open to investigation. I said it was unlikely to ever be investigated.

end of the road

there is nothing to investigate anyway, a clear case was put forward and successfully argued to reinstate the line and it is being so.

people can cry about it and cry foul all they like but any arguments they could have put forward against it were obviously felt to not be valid.

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120930455#Comment_120930455

In your opinion it is unlikely to ever be investigated. If you said 6 months ago that the PAC would be having multiple sittings in relation to Ryan Tubridy's earnings, most would have said that that is extremely unlikely.

Limerick74

Irish Rail to ‘motor on’ despite objections over Limerick bridge - Limerick Live (limerickleader.ie)

loco_scolo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121561763#Comment_121561763

This country is a in a pitiful state if they can't raise a tiny disused rail bridge by a few feet without getting caught up for months, or longer, in the planning and legal system.

What a joke.