Pup with dominant traits and what do you do if your puppy growls at you?

Susannahmia

We just adopted a 12 week old Bichon Friese X Jack Russell and he is already displaying some dominant traits. We have had him 3 days.

He sometimes growls at my older (very submissive) Jack Russell bitch if it is taking a toy etc. That I didn't mind because I thought it was good that he was standing up for itself and in general they are getting on like a house on fire.

However now the older dog is already defering to this tiny little puppy. He was on my lap earlier and when the other dog came over he growled at her and she ran away tail between her legs!

He has also growled at me twice. Once when I was playing and turned him on his back, another time when I was putting on his harness. I have given him a very light tap on the nose and said no in a firm voice when this happens but I'm not sure I'm going about it the right way. What should I do?

Also he has barked back at me a few times if I spoke to him sternly!:pac:

I'm at a loss for dealing with this little man properly. Our older dog is such a softie that all you have to do is to tell her no firmly and she is hiding in her bed for half an hour. Even when I give out to the pup the older dog actually ends up being upset and running and hiding in her bed. The pup doesn't really care at all.

andreac

Where did you get the dog from? Are you sure its an agressive growl at you and not just play growling? They are very different.

Susannahmia

andreac wrote: »

Where did you get the dog from? Are you sure its an agressive growl at you and not just play growling? They are very different.

It's more a warning growl, not a play growl. Not full on aggressive teeth bared or anything, just a small growl. I got him from a neighbour who's dogs had an accidental litter.:rolleyes: The fathers a full Bichon Frise and the mother a full Jack Russell. Both have very good temperaments imo.

andreac

Well i suggest a dog trainer sooner rather than later then. This pup needs lots of socialisation and training.
To be honest, puppies at that age really arent aggressive and if they are then theres a major problem. So i would question as to why a young pup of 3 months is aggressive.

I wouldnt worry too much about her behaviour with the older dog as they will need to sort it out between themselves who is the boss.

Please dont tap the dog on the nose, it can only make things worse.
The scene with the dog barking back at you really isnt aggressive by sounds of it, sounds like he is just being cheeky as a lot of pups will do this and try to push their bounderies (sp) and test you. Best thing to do in that case is to turn your back and completely ignore the dog as getting a reaction from you is just what they want.

Msking

Watch out - they may give out to you for cross breed!

Susannahmia

Msking wrote: »

Watch out - they may give out to you for cross breed!

What do you mean?

andreac

Msking wrote: »

Watch out - they may give out to you for cross breed!

:rolleyes:

andreac

Susannahmia wrote: »

What do you mean?

Take no notice.

That poster is just airing their grievences from another topic on your one which is not necessary.

ISDW

Susannahmia, take no notice, andrea has given good advice, its late now, so I'm not able to think straight, but I'm sure tomorrow you'll get some more good advice on how to handle the situation.

Enjoy your pup:D

mlumley

You have to show the bdog your the boss not him/her. They are pack animals, you are the pack leader, not him.

Msking

Just stating a fact, some people don't believe in cross breeding! Nothing to do with anything else. ok

Msking

andreac wrote: »

Take no notice.

That poster is just airing their grievences from another topic on your one which is not necessary.

again assuming, I just stated that some don't like cross breeds and the fact the dogs were not neutered etc. Giving the heads up thats all.

Good luck with the pup! mine did too and my new one will growl at anything at the moment and give a bark if I am not giving her full attention - like "its time for dinner, where is it". It will be ok - going my my experience, not an expert here!

LucyBliss

I have a dominant dog too. He's three years old this week and from the start, he's always tried to have things his own way by barking and a bit of 'grrr'. It used to worry me a lot at the start and then I thought, hang on now, this little brat, cute as he is, is not going to rule the roost.

My lad will come right up barking at me when he gets over excited, he has no patience whatsoever. I don't give him any suss. So I go down on my hunkers in front of him, put my hand gently on his chest and shoulder and tell him firmly 'No'. Then I tell him to sit and stay for a moment while I put on his lead or put the food in front of him or whatever it is.

He would also go bananas if one of the others had a toy he wanted. I decided that if he went ballistic over a toy, then that toy automatically became my property. I'd sit on the floor with it in my hand and he had to sit and wait again for it. Usually I'd give it back to the dog who had it first and he was either shown the other toys or again told to sit and wait. (You know what he does now? If the other one has a toy he wants, he goes and sulks in the hall until they're done with it. Seriously. But at least he doesn't bark.)

When it comes to growls, he gets told Shush! and to knock it off and he does. But he does growl. And sometimes one of the others will growl back and I immediately step in and tell them both No!
I think the key is for you to stay relaxed in your dealings with him. Easier said than done (I spent many an evening practically crying over the a**hole dog I thought I'd ended up with) and especially as your other dog sounds like he was very easy to deal with.

You don't have to dominate or bully a dog to get them to understand that you are in charge; you just need to be consistent and not back down and make them understand that you are expect to be obeyed because they will test you. I find treats are great. My three are all 'bark bark bark! Oh hey, look food. You want us to sit? No problem! How about a tap dance? You're good with us just sitting? Cool!"

Best of luck!

Whispered

LucyBliss your post made me laugh.
OP I had some problems when our foster came along - not with dominance but with the dogs not knowing who I was speaking to. So like yours if I corrected one (usually Harley :rolleyes:) the other would go hiding.

I got the advice here to use their names a lot. So I'd say "Harley sit" and then give a treat again saying his name, then "phoe sit" and again a treat and his name. It worked well and now I can raise my voice at one and so long as I use their name, the other takes no notice. I can throw food down and say a name and the other will stay rooted to the spot waiting for their bit. If I call one, they will both come running though, to make sure if one gets something nice the other will too. (Harley carried a strawberry around for an hour today rather than let Phoe have it, even though he doesn't like it).

I found with the couch I had to be stern, they try to muscle in on each other, meaning if I'm not stern I end up with two not very petite dogs on my knees. I've started in the last few days to demand my space on the couch by simply shoving both off me. Already now they are sitting beside me, on top of each other, but not on top of me.

I'm not a fan of dominance theory between humans and dogs but I do think it's wise to be aware of it between dogs. Be mindful of little perks like an extra ten mins on the couch, food first on the floor, the first scrap from the chopping board, the first morning cuddle etc. I always feed the older one first. And make the pup wait politely, it's literally 20 seconds of a wait for me to cross the kitchen, but made a difference and the pup now leaves Harley to eat in peace and visa-versa. I had problems with this when Phoe arrived as he was a real grubber and would snap food from your hands, rob from Harley, climb on the tables etc. I used to send both to bed, close phoes crate, quickly feed Harley then bring Phoes food telling him how good he was. We then graduated to sending to bed and no crate closed, he'd sneak out and watch me put Harleys food down then RACE back to his crate and happily grumble while I walked over with his.

I wouldn't worry so much about the growling TBH. Be aware of the rest of the pups body language. Some dogs are just very vocal. Phoe grumbles back at you when you correct him, but his face is open and his tail is wagging like mad so I know it's not so much a growl as a noise.

I really agree with Lucybliss' last line of not having to bully your dog to be in charge. She sounds like she does it in such a lovely way! I'd stop tapping on the nose if I were you, I know you don't see it as "aggressive" but the pup could and aggression will breed aggression and could cause more problems. If you can allow your pup his/her dominant traits but teach him/her to be polite with it you're sorted.

One of the most polite dogs I know is a hugely dominant rottie. His owners say he's ruled the roost since 8 weeks old, but they've managed it very well. In the wrong hands a dominant dog can be a problem, but if managed well it shouldn't create issues.

Best of luck! (Pics?)

Taltos

Op some great advice above, only have one thing to add. I used gps be a firm believer of a quick nose tap too for manners, however I no longer think that.

In fact I now think that if you continue that behaviour it is a matter of time until your pup progresses to snapping at you. Consider formal training for you both, be consistent and use the ignore and timeout methods. Any reaction from you is still attention and that is all the pup ie craving.

barbiegirl

Our 9 months jack russell cross is dominant, and we got a trainer in and her way to recondition the response to the situation that makes him growl,, in his case treat agression, being picked up and moved at night if he thinks he's settled.

We've been working with treats, picking him up and treating him, moving him and treating him, taking the treat off him and treating him before giving it back. We ignore the growls, telling him to cop on and he does. We don't do dominance with him, we're just the boss. We also get visiting kids to do the same. He's a work in progress but totally worth it :-)

Sindy our other dog sometimes allows him to boss her but generally, she gets her paw and takes him down with it. If he's being a real b****xs she lies on top of him, hugs him in under her until he gives up. They generally get on really well.

Susannahmia

Whispered wrote: »

Best of luck! (Pics?)

Here you go.:)









Thanks guys. I was freaking out a bit all-right. Lucy your post made me laugh too. I have been using names but she hasn't caught on yet, so I'll make sure to increase that.

So if he does growl at me again just a firm no or do I just completely ignore?

LucyBliss

I'm so glad you all find my pain amusing!! I've never seen the like!! *flounces off the internets in a huff!*

Heh, no not really. I do think that when it comes to training dogs, a sense of humour is a must! Thank you for the lovely compliment, Whispered, but there were times when I thought Jack was going to be an unsociable lout. He has his 'quirks' but anytime I would really worry about him, I'd look over at him lying with my grandmother on the couch and he'd pay no heed to any grabbing she did or the times she'd practically sit on him. So I figured he had some good points in there too! I think while I was teaching him, he was teaching me too, if that makes sense, about how to step up and deal with a dominant dog.

Susannahmia, they are gorgeous! Look at those cute faces! The pup's face just looks full of character.
When it comes to growling, I usually go by the growl. Play growl gets a glance from me to see exactly what the situation is (in our house a play growl is usually followed by a play chase around the house so I look to see if I'm about to get lamped in the shins by something booting it past me). Anything more intense between the dogs gets a hand clap to break it up and told No. If they're growling at me, I usually nip it in the bud by saying No and then redirecting by saying sit or initiating a game of fetch.
I don't like the dogs growling at me. The only reason I would 'accept' is if I have to check them out for health related issues or I have to physically pick them up for some reason. Then I just ease up on what I'm doing and tell him gently shush.
I find that getting them to obey a command puts the focus back on me as someone who must be obeyed and then I start the game to take us out of that situation and put us into a fun one.

It may not be everyone's way but it works for these three dogs and I prefer to not let a growl go unchecked so as not to cause bad habits. I am not a prowler, I am not a danger to my dogs, nor do they have any serious health issues so growling at me is off. Play growling at me and each other I allow so long as it stays at a certain decibel.

As I type this, I have Meg play growling at Jack because he's lying on the bed she wants and he's growling back at her because he's finished his treat and wants hers. Still that's better than the time Meg started play growling at me because she'd dropped her toy off the couch and wanted me to pick it up for her. Seriously. That was a real WTF moment.

Susannahmia

Thanks Lucy, they sound like a hoot! Coincidently the pup's name is Jack too!:pac: The older ones name is Milly.

doggiewalker00

Ahh thier both lovely.barbie girls advice is the most useful to you,your dogs not being dominent thiers no such thing,Contrary to many populur beleifs they have no understanding of heirarchy their just resource guarding.an object is valuable and they want it. The way to fix resource guarding is to change how they feel about giving an object up.make a big deal about the other dog being around him special treats and extra cuddels for them both,hell soon figure out that the other dog coming in means good things for him.

If he barks or growl when hes around ignore it and get up and walk away.

Please dont try to alpha roll him and place your hand on the chest and try to asert yourself on him,theese methods are outdated.they can cause the problem to get worse (they work out of controlling from fear of what might happen)and hurt the bond between you and your dog.

STOP WATCHING CESAR MILAN and call a real trainer.

LucyBliss

Please dont try to alpha roll him and place your hand on the chest and try to asert yourself on him,theese methods are outdated.they can cause the problem to get worse (they work out of controlling from fear of what might happen)and hurt the bond between you and your dog.

Just to clarify, when I put my hand on Jack's chest, it's more my thumb with the rest of my hand on the back of his neck. I rest my hand very lightly and it's more that I use the connection to get him back focused on me and give him a quick rub. At no point am I trying to assert myself on him but as he can zone in on other things, I do it to get him back looking at me. It usually happens when it's time to put on the lead and he loses the run of himself with excitement. By doing that, I can get him to look at me, get him to sit and calm down(ish) and put the lead on.

It works for him because he is the type of dog that needs a lot of direction - you just have to get him to calm the hell down so you can give it to him!

But like I said, I'm not interested in dominance training. My dogs have personalities and I like them that way.

Susannahmia

doggiewalker00 wrote: »

STOP WATCHING CESAR MILAN and call a real trainer.

How did you know!

R.E Cesar Milan, I don't usually pay any heed to him at all but when the pup started acting so dominant I got a little freaked out (ok a lot!) and changed his sleeping arrangements, while vagely thinking about Ceser Milan's stance on having dogs in your bed.

Previously he was in a crate right beside and level with my bed and pillow so that he could see me and so he would wake me if he needed to pee. He would sleep very well this way (and so did I).

Last night I moved him across the room, but where he could still see me. He cried a lot more last night and was more unsettled . Would it be any harm to move him back to where he was or should I keep him further away from the bed.

Sorry I know I'm probably completly over-analysing things!!:o

LucyBliss

Well, Jack and Meg sleep on my bed. I crate trained them at first and once they were house trained and I was full sure of them not destroying the house, they graduated from sleeping on the chair downstairs to upstairs with me. I can't say it's made much difference to them in any way. Now if they were the kind of dogs that needed less companionship and more boundaries, I'd leave them downstairs.

So if he likes being close to you, I say move him back. He's in the crate. It's not like he's in the bed sprawled on the duvet while you're sleeping on the floor!

doggiewalker00

I honestly dont know how Cesar Can get away with what he does it.It borders on animal cruelty at times.

When ecaxtly to you try this?does it actaully get him to calm down and focus on you,id imagine all that happens is you distratct him for split second and he goes back to what ever he was doing......or unknowingly you could be rewarding what ever hes doing by touching and praising him,stroking talking to him gently etc.

What you dont see on the telly is the paring of the touch hes giving or the shhhhhh is done with something like an e collar.so the dog goes crap shhh means I get shocked and he freezes.

Is he going crazy when out walking? hey another dog! wow a cat! oooooo thiers a bird! that pole smells interesting? Dogs are dogs.

Try teaching the dog to look at you.
Have a peice of food in both hands,hold 1 hand out wide.Hell try get it by jumping,pawing everthing he can think of then hell stop and look at you. GOOD BOY lots of fuss WELL DONE give him the treat.thell get the idea quickly,when hes doing it consistently say "LOOK" as your hand reaches outs.

SIMPLES,now you have to work on it with distracions when your out on walks etc be patient and start slowly,have someboady wave a toy and get his attention you say look.Have some kibble in your pocket and throughout the day get him "look".

doggiewalker00

Lucy I read your post again,I personnaly dont see any problem in a dog getting excited to go for the walk as thats normal and is usualy the highlight of thier day.

But if thiers a problem were your unable to control the situation and thier going mental barking doing handstands and generally wont let you put the lead and harness on them.I simpley say too bad and put the lead and harness away again and come back in 5 mins,theyll get the idea very quickly thier behaviour= No walk.

generally when people try to calm them down "Hey Quiet""SIT SIT SIT""NO NO NO",wrestling with them to put the lead on,thier adding to the dogs excitement and making the situation worse.

GOOD LUCK!

doggiewalker00

Ceasrs on dogs in the bed.

Dont Let the dog sleep in your bed becasue he thinks "hell own you"
ridiculous.
equally, Dogs cant love us either as were not the same species,they simple use us for thier own beneifits(loyalty is what some people call this) food water shelter play.And we in return get a companion that we can care for.WIN WIN for both of us

The dog is sleeping with you at night becasue he loves you and wants to be next to you and get cuddles WRONG more like a nice matress with a comfy duvet is alot more comfortable than his bed,and the warmth from your boady is the reason he want to get close to you.

LucyBliss

When ecaxtly to you try this?does it actaully get him to calm down and focus on you,id imagine all that happens is you distratct him for split second and he goes back to what ever he was doing......or unknowingly you could be rewarding what ever hes doing by touching and praising him,stroking talking to him gently etc.

No, he stops what he's doing and sits and waits for me to put his lead on.

Is he going crazy when out walking?

Actually no. He's very good when out walking. It's Meg who is the one with the nose sniffing all around her and eyeing up birds and anything else that moves, but she's good at walking too. So is Rosie.

Try teaching the dog to look at you.

Taught them that a long time back. They're very good at it.

,I personnaly dont see any problem in a dog getting excited to go for the walk as thats normal and is usualy the highlight of thier day.

Me neither. But when Jack gets all excited and barks and then Meg comes and starts head butting him for the lulz because she's getting excited too, and then Rosie starts bouncing around, getting into the swing of things, enough is enough. I have to restore calm or we'd get nothing done. I don't do the Sit! Sit! Quieten Down! type shouting because yes, that does make things worse and I don't believe in shouting and yelling. It causes more chaos. I like things to at least pretend to be calm, even for a few minutes!

Look, I don't pretend to be in any way an expert on dogs. I only have the tools I learnt growing up with the kind of dogs we had. I don't follow the teachings of any trainer. I can only go by what dogs I have in the house with me right now. I've had Meg and Jack since Rosie gave birth to them in the house three years ago. Because of personal circumstances, I spent practically the whole day with them every day for two of those years. I know those dogs inside out and I know what works for them and what doesn't. I'm very lucky in that regard.
I'm not a one size fits all owner. Meg and Rosie don't respond to things like Jack so they have different training.

My dogs don't maul each other, they don't maul me or visitors to the house, the furnishings are quite safe. They're not food or dog aggressive and they're not territorial. They were a great comfort to my 100 year old grandmother before she died and last week, they brought great cheer to my aunt who was staying with us. She has dementia unfortunately but she relaxes with them and they like to hang out with her. So I don't think I'm doing too badly with them.

And of course, a person can take or leave whatever I post. You go by what suits your particular dog. However, I will say that my advice of relaxing and enjoying working with the dog, no matter what the pup throws at you, is valid. You get a lot more done when you're both just going with the flow and aren't stressed.

doggiewalker00

I was merely offering advice as to Susan requests,Im not saying what your doing is wrong just trying to be helpful!

LucyBliss

doggiewalker00 wrote: »

I was merely offering advice as to Susan requests,Im not saying what your doing is wrong just trying to be helpful!

Which I actually do appreciate. Thank you. I am always open to new advice on dealing with things because even if it doesn't apply to me now, who's to say that it won't in the future with another dog or be useful to someone else.

Taltos

What we do is the following - works for us might not work for all

1. Ignore them - turn my back for a few moments or walk slowly away
2. Give the leave it command or "ah ah" - then introducing a distraction - wooden bones for some reason
3. Just introduced "Look" - great when they are all too excited
4. Time out / Too bold - these are my last resort - have only had to use them 3 times so far. Personally I am not comfortable with these but with the timeout have limited it to 10 or 20 seconds - personally think that any longer is a form of cruelty.

Basically - reward all good behaviour - whether it is sitting quietly or just coming up to say hello calmly. Use either treats / cuddles / praise / toy.
Try to show that all negative behaviour is not good - either distract / ignore if behaviour is directed to me.

Fingers crossed so far it is working - but mine are still adolescents - no clue if this will work so well with adults.

peasant

Susannahmia wrote: »

We just adopted a 12 week old Bichon Friese X Jack Russell and he is already displaying some dominant traits. We have had him 3 days.

Your dog is a cheeky little baby (all of 12 weeks!) it does not yet know what "dominant" is or means.

Relax, take a deep breath, calm down, give it time, don't over-analyse.


Consistent rules, consistent routine, quietly and relaxed, no fuss, no panic and lots of time.


It'll all be good in the end.