Houses for heroes

jos28

I have to do a final year history project for my degree and I was thinking of the 'Houses for herores' scheme. I'm thinking of The Demesne/Abbeyfield in Killester in particular. I found this book with some information in it
http://www.alibris.com/booksearch.detail?invid=10583421649&browse=1&qwork=3444873&qsort=&page=1.
I would love to find out how the houses were allocated and how those who returned from WW1 settled in to them. Were there similar schemes anywhere else ?
Any ideas/information/leads would be much appreciated. I'm not looking for someone to do all the work for me, honest . I am just going through ideas at the moment and wondering if there is enough information out there to warrant the research. Thanks

Simarillion

Hello jos28

I know that there were several schemes outside Dublin built, including the Frenchville area of The Claddagh in Galway City.
My great-grandfather was in charge of knocking down the old thatch cottages in Frenchville and constructing new houses for ex-servicemen. I afraid I don't think I have the records for any of this but I'll have a look for you.
It wasn't particularly popular with some of the locals, but their anger seemed to be targeted at the demolition of the old cottages rather than giving houses to British servicemen. They stoned my great grandfathers workers at one stage and drove them off, and the RIC had to be called.
As it happens a guy I went to school with lived in Frenchville because his great-grandfather had been a medic during the war and was given the house.

I think the city library holds some more records and newspaper articles on it

eejoynt

there is a history of the soldiers and sailors land trust in print
see history blog pues occurrences for a recnt blog on the threatened demolition of the british legion hall

killester station was built to serve this development and the private bus line serving it was called 'the contemptible' after the old contemtibles of 1914

R.Dub.Fusilier

i think there is some soldiers hgousing in Laytown and i read somewhere that houses were built on the North Road in Finglas but these may have a connection to the Boer War.

Jellybaby1

jos28 wrote: »

I would love to find out how the houses were allocated and how those who returned from WW1 settled in to them.

This is very interesting. Was there a similar scheme for returning servicemen from WW2?

oncevotedff

jos28 wrote: »

I would love to find out how the houses were allocated and how those who returned from WW1 settled in to them. Were there similar schemes anywhere else ?

Glenconnor Cottages in Clonmel.

jos28

Jellybaby1 wrote: »

This is very interesting. Was there a similar scheme for returning servicemen from WW2?

I don't think so because we were running our own show at that stage. According to the book that I have, the British Government decided to fund the housing in order to prevent returning soldiers from joining the republican movement.
'The over riding concern of the British Government was to maintain social stability'. It was an insurance against revolution. The replies you have all posted are really fascinating and make me think that there would be plenty there to research. I never realised that Killester train station was built specifically for the houses. I never heard the bus story either. I wonder if the builders were treated the same way as Simarillion's great grandfather. Fascinating stuff, keep them coming please...:D

R.Dub.Fusilier

here is a link to the houses in Killester http://homepage.eircom.net/~wlawless/ww1/PUB_Killester/index.html and one to what i said about homes in Finglas , which i got wrong http://finglashistoricalsociety.com/History.asp

pmfrederick

Hi my grandad was given a home for soldiers at Abbeyfeild after WW1. Do you know how were the homes allocated?

jos28 wrote: »

I have to do a final year history project for my degree and I was thinking of the 'Houses for herores' scheme. I'm thinking of The Demesne/Abbeyfield in Killester in particular. I found this book with some information in it
http://www.alibris.com/booksearch.detail?invid=10583421649&browse=1&qwork=3444873&qsort=&page=1.
I would love to find out how the houses were allocated and how those who returned from WW1 settled in to them. Were there similar schemes anywhere else ?
Any ideas/information/leads would be much appreciated. I'm not looking for someone to do all the work for me, honest . I am just going through ideas at the moment and wondering if there is enough information out there to warrant the research. Thanks

enfield

There was a scheme to give returning soldiers land. They were source land by narrowing the Barrow.
Cheers.
Tom.

jos28

Pmfrederick,
The houses in Killester were built by the Irish Local Government Board and were completed in 1923. The houses were allocated by them until 1924. There was a trust set up to manage and provide further housing for ex-servicemen in 1924 (The Irish Soldiers and Sailors Land Trust). They looked after allocations, maintenance and evictions after that. The Killester houses were particularly interesting because the tenants there went on a rent strike in 1929. This ended up in 9 Killester residents taking the Trust to the Supreme court where they won the right for all ex-servicemen to stay in their houses free from rent. Their action eventually led to the demise of the Trust. If you want I can check my info and hopefully tell you when your Grandad moved in. I can also email you 2 fascinating articles about the houses if you want.

pmfrederick

It would be fasinating to learn when my Grandad moved in to Abbeyfield
His name was Frederick Christopher Sharpe born in Dublin about 1886. He lived in 118 Abbeyfield. I do not know what regiment he was in but know he was in WW1 and think he was wounded in the leg (he had a stick and in later life the leg was ammutated). Fasinating to hear about the rent strike. He brought up a familiy in 1118 Abbeyfield. It would be great to learn of the articles. My e mail is pmhello@fastmail.fm

jos28 wrote: »

Pmfrederick,
The houses in Killester were built by the Irish Local Government Board and were completed in 1923. The houses were allocated by them until 1924. There was a trust set up to manage and provide further housing for ex-servicemen in 1924 (The Irish Soldiers and Sailors Land Trust). They looked after allocations, maintenance and evictions after that. The Killester houses were particularly interesting because the tenants there went on a rent strike in 1929. This ended up in 9 Killester residents taking the Trust to the Supreme court where they won the right for all ex-servicemen to stay in their houses free from rent. Their action eventually led to the demise of the Trust. If you want I can check my info and hopefully tell you when your Grandad moved in. I can also email you 2 fascinating articles about the houses if you want.

jos28

Pmfrederick, I just sent you an email with those articles. Enjoy !

jos28

Well it's done, thesis has finally gone to the printers ! Turns out there was plenty of research material out there on the provision of houses for returning WW1 veterans. Thanks for all the help everyone !

emk59

Hi jos28,

My grandfather was ex-serviceman and was allocated a house in the demesne, killester in the 1920's. The house backed onto the rail line and has been demolished since. Row of 2 storey houses there now since the 80's. w
Would love to know reason the house was allocated to him and if possible his regiment. my email is emk@upcmail.ie. He was H Kirwan. Hope you can help. Ta.

jos28

Hi emk,
I've sent you an email

Wicklowandy

Soldiers houses:

Oldcourt park, bray (locally known as soldiers rd)
Luckybrook road, glenealy
Rocky road, wicklow town,
Avondale main gate, rathdrum

There seems to be two distinct styles in the area, one detached and slightly larger, and then pairs of semis. Theres examples of the detached style on oldcourt park and at avondale gates. Been very curious about these for years and how they were allocated. Theres some unrecognisable, but some are very original but beautiful external ironware and lovely banisters. I know of one with original windows and beautiful turned iron window latches.

brendag

I've heard that the houses on Peck's Lane in Castleknock were for returned WW1 soldiers also. Some of my family members who had served were given houses there and elsewhere in the area. I will try to find out more information and post it here.

jos28

Yep, the houses in Wicklow and Castleknock were built by the Irish Soldiers and Sailors Land Trust. The Trust built nearly 3000 houses throughout the State for soldiers returning from WWl.

Wicklowandy

jos28 wrote: »

Yep, the houses in Wicklow and Castleknock were built by the Irish Soldiers and Sailors Land Trust. The Trust built nearly 3000 houses throughout the State for soldiers returning from WWl.

Would you know if the houses in castleknock are in the same style as the ones scattered around wicklow?

Also the two styles, mostly pairs of semis but the occasional double fronted detached (strangely about the same sq footage as each other) Were they allocated according to rank or honour?

jos28

I focused mainly on the Killester houses which represented the largest development built by the Trust. There were 3 sizes of houses which were allocated according to rank. The largest houses were in Demesne and were given to officers and their families. I would imagine that the same rule applied elsewhere. The Trust built different styles of houses in various places.

Here is an extract from an article by Fred Aalen where Castleknock is mentioned:

Significant developments, with between 40 to 80 houses in each, were built on the outskirts of Dublin at Cabra (1932-34), Glasnevin (1928-31), Milltown (1928-31), Ballinteer (1931-32), Kimmage (1931-33) and Sandymount (1923) 43 Numerous smaller developments were built, for example at Library Road, Kingstown (now Dun Laoghaire) (Fig. 2c), Sallynoggin, Castleknock, Dundrum, Palmerstown, Clontarf, Raheny and Drimnagh. There is considerable variety of house styles between and within these developments and in the way they are laid out. Milltown, forexample, has short terraces of two-storey brick houses, arranged mainly in subdued crescents on the roadside (Fig. 3a); Sallynoggin has mainly single-storey terrace dwellings with picturesque bay windows, colourful, orange roof-tiles and doors framed by wide, sloping pilasters (identical houses were built at Athy, County Kildare); Castleknock has semi-detached, single-storey and two-storey houses, while Ballinteer has cottages of varied designs, but mainly short terraces similar to those at Milltown, arranged on a secluded road and a nearby cul-de-sac (Fig. 3b)
and linked with a small colony of local authority labourers' cottages.

Drop me a PM if you would like me to email that article to you.

mairin26

Hi jos28,
I've just come accross this thread.
I am starting to do some family research and my great-grandparents raised their family in Killester. My great-grandfather was an ex-serviceman but I don't have any details of how they came to live there.

I would love to know how the houses in Killester were allocated - was it by a draw or something? I read somewhere that there were thousands of applicants for the 300 houses built.

Any information would be great, thanks.

jos28

Hi Mairin,
Returning soldiers had to apply to the Local Government Board for a house. There didn't seem to any strict criteria, just ex-servicemen of sound character who had families to support. The first residents moved in in 1923, many of the returning soldiers worked on the Killester site as labourers, physically building the houses they were going to live in. The Irish Sailors and Soldiers Land Trust took over in January 1924 and then men had to apply directly to the Trust for housing.
PM sent.

jos28

This might be of interest to anyone with Killester connections. It is from British Pathe newsreels and shows Remembrance Day 1923 in Killester. There are other clips there too, one featuring the laying of the foundation stone for St Brigid's Church in 1925

http://www.britishpathe.com/video/remembrance-day-8/query/killester

http://www.britishpathe.com/video/archbishop-of-dublin/query/killester

There a few clips, all well worth a look

hotd

Get over to Resource centre next door to Killester Church to-morrow as it is the last day of a week long exhibition covering WW1 and has some fantastic photos and info on the ex servicemens houses that were built there in the 1920s as well as lots of history of the parish.

jos28

Cheers Hotd, I was there last week and it was a brilliant exhibition. Well done to all involved.

Mag given

hotd wrote: »

Get over to Resource centre next door to Killester Church to-morrow as it is the last day of a week long exhibition covering WW1 and has some fantastic photos and info on the ex servicemens houses that were built there in the 1920s as well as lots of history of the parish.

Looking for any photographs of houses in all parts of Ireland

Mag given

hotd wrote: »

Get over to Resource centre next door to Killester Church to-morrow as it is the last day of a week long exhibition covering WW1 and has some fantastic photos and info on the ex servicemens houses that were built there in the 1920s as well as lots of history of the parish.

I was one of the people involved in the exhibition. Thank you for your comments.

Wicklowandy

Mag given wrote: »

Looking for any photographs of houses in all parts of Ireland

I'll take pictures in Rathdrum, Glenealy, Wicklow and Bray, but they are all built in the same style (with the exception of the two detached in Bray and one in rathdrum) if you want.

Would love to compare with the style of the rest. Still curious as to the detached houses; two bedroom and similar square footage to the semis; it's like they were built for the offices in charge?

jos28

Andy,
There appeared to be a practice of the Irish Soldiers and Sailors Land Trust building different style houses for different ranks. For example, in Killester there were 3 types of housing: the largest ones in Demesne were reserved for officers, Middle Third went to the middle ranks and Abbeyfield was reserved for the ordinary ranking soldiers and their families. As the years went by and families got bigger, people did move to the bigger houses within the estate.
Anyone interested in this topic should check out
Fraser, M. 1996. John Bull’s Other Homes, State Housing and British Policy in Ireland 1883-1922. Liverpool.
If anyone wants a copy of another interesting article by Fred Aalen (whos goes into detail about the actual building) or if anyone wants a link to my thesis just drop me a pm.
In the meantime I will try and post a couple of photos that I got from the ISSLT Annual Reports.

jos28

Apologies for the poor quality

jos28

A few more photos



Sorry that some of the photos need rotating. I uploaded them in the correct aspect but somehow they appear ar**ways. Perhaps some more technically minded person could sort them out.

Jellybaby1

Thought folk here mightbe interested to know there is a talk in the National Library on 'Homes for Heroes - Irish Sailors and Soldiers Land Trust' on 21st August. You will find the full lists of lectures here:

http://www.nli.ie/en/list/latest-news.aspx?article=56611ea7-1d89-42b9-946b-e4d63d760933

Maggie165

Trying to make contact with Jan O'Sullivan who published article on the Killester Colony in relation to her BA Maggie

jos28

Maggie165 wrote: »

Trying to make contact with Jan O'Sullivan who published article on the Killester Colony in relation to her BA Maggie

PM sent Maggie

Maggie165

Hi,
Where did you get the wonderful photographs. Have you more ?
Margaret

jos28

Maggie, I pm'd you with my contact details.

donaghs

brendag wrote: »

I've heard that the houses on Peck's Lane in Castleknock were for returned WW1 soldiers also. Some of my family members who had served were given houses there and elsewhere in the area. I will try to find out more information and post it here.

Great photos. Recognised the ones in Sandymount. I saw some houses in Peck's Lane in Castleknock recently, which looked like old Council Houses. Thought that was odd considering the most of the houses around there looked very different and carry a very high price tag. Not so strange I suppose as Council houses were built in smaller numbers in, even in "posher" areas, and Castleknock would have been much more rural then. Interesting to know they were ex-servicemens houses. The diamond roof slates gave them away. Also, features like the exterior plaster-work, boundary walls/hedges, the window shape and location, etc.

jos28

Thanks Donaghs, afaik the Trust built 30 houses in Castleknock both single and two storey.

donaghs

jos28 wrote: »

Thanks Donaghs, afaik the Trust built 30 houses in Castleknock both single and two storey.

You can still see them on Google Street view. They are on the right hand side as you go from the Castleknock Road towards the N3, and on two side roads. But mixed in with other houses. A lot of them have been modernised and extended since.

MixedMessages

Thanks for all the knowledge

At the weekend, I spotted a plaque on houses in Macroom, Co Cork with the name and crest of The Irish Sailors & Soldiers Land Trust.

I hadn't heard of it previously but now know a bit more.

kildarejohn

jos28 wrote: »

In the meantime I will try and post a couple of photos that I got from the ISSLT Annual Reports.

Those photos you posted up are great Jos. I would be interested in reading more, particularly re developments in Dublin & Wexford where relatives of mine lived in soldiers houses. Can you tell us where the ISSLT reports are available?

jos28

Hi KildareJohn,
Most of the records are in Kew, although some reports are held at TCD. If you like I can send you my article and you can have a look through the sources. I can send you on anything I have that might be of interest. Just drop me a PM with your email address and I will send it on.

Parsnips84

Hi my great grandad fought in ww1 richard parsons he was blinded in the war and given army housing in churchtown dublin I know this housing was part of a fund set up to take care of the exsoldiers but I have yet to find a service number or regiment id be greatful for any help he lived in number 3 churchtown little if that makes any difference thanks

Qualitymark

The redbrick houses on Emmet Road in the centre of Inchicore village were British Army houses - I forget what regiment, but you can see the thistle-and-shamrock design still on their ironwork. I think they were for non-commissioned officers.

Jos's links as images (I hope):







Parsnips, try the Great War Forum (google it) - those guys are very nice and helpful. Was this your Richard Parsons? http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/North_Dock/Common_Street/21605/

On the Green

I've a keen interest in this subject. I was born and raised in one of the cottages with 3 bedrooms, a living room and a scullery like in the one in the picture directly over this post. Our house was one of 23 that are together just outside Callan, Co. Kilkenny. We in the area think that since these cottages were always semi-detached that the one single one is very unique. Now by doing a bit of digging today I can see that the cottages in Glenconnor, Clonmel might have a single one there too but I have to see it with my own eyes as Street View doesn't give me the angle I'm looking for.

But if anyone can give any more information on them I'd love to hear it. I think Facebook is probably the best medium to set up a centre of information about these cottages but if there is something out there already then I'd love to know.

So far I have the following 'spots' for these types of houses:

Kilkenny - Skeaugh, Callan
Cork - Gyleen, Ballycotton - see pics above, fab to see them as they were when they were built. Midleton, Carrigaline, Crosshaven, Cloyne, Douglas... if I can think of anymore I'll add them in.
Meath - Outside Navan but it was a long time ago and it could have been Trim
Tipperary - Glenconnor - haven't laid eyes on them only Street View but there seems to be quite a cluster of them there.

Most were built just outside towns it seems

Qualitymark

Might be worth connecting them with the ones built in English provincial towns.

MixedMessages

On the Green wrote: »

I've a keen interest in this subject. I was born and raised in one of the cottages with 3 bedrooms, a living room and a scullery like in the one in the picture directly over this post. Our house was one of 23 that are together just outside Callan, Co. Kilkenny. We in the area think that since these cottages were always semi-detached that the one single one is very unique. Now by doing a bit of digging today I can see that the cottages in Glenconnor, Clonmel might have a single one there too but I have to see it with my own eyes as Street View doesn't give me the angle I'm looking for.

But if anyone can give any more information on them I'd love to hear it. I think Facebook is probably the best medium to set up a centre of information about these cottages but if there is something out there already then I'd love to know.

So far I have the following 'spots' for these types of houses:

Kilkenny - Skeaugh, Callan
Cork - Gyleen, Ballycotton - see pics above, fab to see them as they were when they were built. Midleton, Carrigaline, Crosshaven, Cloyne, Douglas... if I can think of anymore I'll add them in.
Meath - Outside Navan but it was a long time ago and it could have been Trim
Tipperary - Glenconnor - haven't laid eyes on them only Street View but there seems to be quite a cluster of them there.

Most were built just outside towns it seems

The houses in Guileen (Gyleen) look like they might still exist - if you do a google map search on co-ordinates 51.7965202,-8.1963295

The ones in Macroom are a terrace of 4.

V8 Interceptor

On the Green wrote: »

I was born and raised in one of the cottages. Our house was one of 23 that are together just outside Callan, Co. Kilkenny. We in the area think...

Just out of interest did the locals of your area ever hear of a cavalry clash between the Williamite and Jacobite forces just outside Callan?

hotd

Are these houses built after WW1 for people who served in the forces ?

Manach

V8 Interceptor wrote: »

Just out of interest did the locals of your area ever hear of a cavalry clash between the Williamite and Jacobite forces just outside Callan?

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