why own a dangerous breed?

pokertalk

i know my ehhhhhh idea would prob never happen but its something like that ,that needs to be done the alternative is to just have every dog out there muzzeled and on a lead and nobody wants that:mad:
otherwise lets just carry on with the rb list which makes less sense than my idea

faw1tytowers

A dalmation attacked my staffie and in my attempt to seperate the dog i got bit by the dalmation.... punctured a vein on my ankle and was on crutches for a week. The dalmation was a family dog for years one I know well and my own dog didnt even see the attack come. She since fears larger dogs.

I don't know why the dalmation attacked, but I still love ALL dogs. Personally I would be more scared of a barky chihuahua than a bull breed.

Why do humans snap and attack?

People should not be so small minded.

Discodog

There are two ways that the restricted breed & licensing legislation could go. We could go for total bans as the UK did years ago. Or we could introduce proper ownership & responsibility law for all breeds that the UK are now considering to replace the bans that didn't work.

In reality there is no great public clamour for any legislation as was born out by the fact that it was not & has never been an election issue. In reality, taking into account the emphasis on economic policies, it could be another 20 years (or more) before we change the law.
However if there were a couple of serious or fatal incidents involving restricted breeds then we would probably get a ban.

The worrying thing is that our ignorant legislators will not take the time to properly research the problem. As a result Ireland will continue it's time honoured approach that the dog is at fault & has to be punished. This was the belief in medieval times !.

minkynuts

I am a pedigree dog photographer, and have been one for the past 30 years, I have photographed all recognized breeds of dog at least 3 times. and travelled
to all of the countries of origin to do my work for books, calendars magazines and in all of that time I have only once been bitten bad enough to have to go to hospital and that was a chihuahua. I was laying on the ground photography another when this little sod raced out of the bushes and bit me in the arm .

Rob

Discodog

minkynuts wrote: »

I am a pedigree dog photographer

Gosh how do you hold the camera .

Did you do any shoots for the notorious Ash calendar ?.

I would always rather deal with a big dog that a little one.

On reflection I also think that there is a problem in that many people don't have the slightest clue about dogs. So they don't understand the dog's reaction to them & realise that it is linked to how they react to the dog.

It is amazing that with so many dogs & such a long history, that it hasn't become part of everyone's education. After all you are going to meet dogs whether you want to or not. Recent studies have suggested that we could dramatically reduce the number of dog bites by educating children.
In a recent study many children, when shown a photo of a snarling dog, thought that it was smiling :eek:.

We shouldn't criticise the OP for expressing a view that is mistakenly held by a lot of people.

arybvtcw0eolkf

zenno wrote: »

when it comes to staffie's 2 legs are good but 4 legs are bad. my friend has a staffordshire bull terrior and it is a very powerfull modra it licks people to death and only want's a rub but these dog's have serious affection to humans but unfortunately they can and will attack other dogs to the death. beautiful creatures but the owner needs to have intelligence and mussle this breed when close to other dogs only as I said they have serious affection towards humans.

Its hard to decypher that post so I'll just deal with the last line.

I've numerous photos of my dogs on this forum, almost without exception out doors, and you'll never see a muzzle on them - never.

I tried when the older dog was a younger, but I got sick to death of JRT's and Yorkies attacking him, or people crossing the road because he looked savage in the muzzle.

With or without the muzzle my younger dog, Ruby (avatar & sig) would crap herself if she was attacked by anything.

Kadongy

I had a mongrel growing up. She was a cross between a jack russel, a labrador and a bull terrier or similar I think. She was treated well.

She never ever displayed any aggression towards humans, even if provoked. However she would attack other dogs randomly. She was strong and squat and pretty fierce. One day we came home to find her covered in blood, and the other dog (a border collie/spaniel cross) had been badly savaged - probably would have died I think if not given vetinary attention.

I worked in an animal shelter also. There was a bulldog there that was gentle to the point fof soppiness towards humans, and I am not aware of any bad treatment he suffered. He was unable to live with another pet though - He killed a greyhound.

So I dont know if there are breeds that are dangerous towards humans. Most dog's traits are bred in by humans, and attacking people for no reason is not really a desirable trait. I do know that some dogs are genetically wired to be dangerous to other dogs or other animals though.

edit: Well the first dog would attack semi-randomly, rather than randomly. With the exception of the other pet, she would attack larger dogs only. She might have went for (or tried to) every labrador she ever saw. I remember her going for an alsatian. She would allow dogs smaller than her to harrass her and not show aggression on the other hand.
When she was going to attack a dog, she would go very quiet and still and lie down and focus on them. It was like a lioness stalking prey kinda. If you didn't hold her then, she would go from that to darting toward them. She meant business - beware the dog with no bark etc.

Discodog

Roselyn Huge Suburbanite wrote: »

I've numerous photos of my dogs on this forum, almost without exception out doors, and you'll never see a muzzle on them - never.
.

If I owned a RB I too would refuse to muzzle it. All a muzzle does is perpetuate the myth. No one asked President Roosevelt to muzzle his Pit Bull.

For over 30 years the most famous dog charecter in Hollywood films & TV was Rin Tin Tin. He "saved" dozens of children & was adored by all. He was a German Shepherd so they could not do a remake here as he would have to wear a muzzle !.

koneko

Frustrating thread is frustrating.
I have a GSD and love her to bits. Breaks my heart that people will do a circle around her or assume she's so somehow prone to be a vicious animal. Anyone that knows the breed will walk right up to her and get showered in doggy kisses. They're used as guide dogs and search and rescue dogs for frack sake

Wisco

The reality is that most people, including many dog owners, are terrible at reading doggy body language, and this results in bites. Many 'unprovoked' bites could be seen a mile away by someone who's good at reading a dog's posture and body language and are the result of a person being totally unaware that the dog is frightened/annoyed/terrified.
Bringing in any new licensing will not help either, as the current license scheme is not enforced, nor is there any money or facilities to improve things in that regard, at least not as far as I can see.
Sadly, the 'restricted breed' and 'unprovoked bite' issues are ones which we will not see the end of anytime soon. At the risk of sounding a bit harsh, there are idiots everywhere, and unfortunately many of them own dogs and other pets, even though they're probably not fit to look after a houseplant.

Discodog

Wisco wrote: »

nor is there any money or facilities to improve things in that regard, at least not as far as I can see.

There could be money if the enforcement was privatised.

caseyann

All dogs are potentially viscous.And all animals of all types should be treated with proper care and respect by their owners.
But no matter how safe you think your dog is with you and has always been,you have no right to assume that the dog is not ever going to bite someone.As you can not read the dogs mind.Could be a pulled muscle or a tooth ache and the dog could rip shreds out of someone by pure accident.
I was brought up to love our dogs but never to assume they arent capable of an attack on another dog or on a person.
If i see unmuzzled gsd or pit bull or any form of large dog off lead and running around i will always remain cautious and not enter their space.
I do believe though you can feel and see body language from a dog.

It is wrong that people take that chance with dogs as they do not know what their dog is capable of,and it takes a split second for it to go horribly wrong.Anyone who assumes their dog has not got potential to bite are bad owners.
If on lead and under control no big deal not having a muzzle,if off lead then they should be muzzled.

Why own them?
Well thats easy if you are a dog lover and treat your dog with the respect and care that they should be given,and respect people who are not comfortable with dogs.Then they are beautiful dogs to own and bring just as much love and companionship as any other pet.

caseyann

koneko wrote: »

Frustrating thread is frustrating.
I have a GSD and love her to bits. Breaks my heart that people will do a circle around her or assume she's so somehow prone to be a vicious animal. Anyone that knows the breed will walk right up to her and get showered in doggy kisses. They're used as guide dogs and search and rescue dogs for frack sake :/

Those dogs are picked from young age by temperament and ability.And given a training schedule and some make it and others dont.Saying they are used for that is silly thing to say,they are trained as guard dogs and police dogs to take down people aswell.
Breaks my heart that people assume that other people are not afraid of those dogs and you should respect their fears.

Discodog

caseyann wrote: »

All dogs are potentially viscous.

And the vast majority of dogs will never bite someone. You cannot let a million to one chance affect how you look after a dog. If the dog is properly trained, socialised & under reasonable control then you have done everything that is needed.

You could argue that every human has the potential to be a killer or a child abuser so you can't leave them with children. In reality we have to balance probabilities.

Ten of thousands of GSD's are kept as pets all over the world. Few have been selected or specially trained but become wonderfully loyal, dependable family pets. The same applies to Dobermans, Bull Breeds etc.

The law needs to focus on irresponsible owners rather than putting more unnecessary controls on the rest.

caseyann

Discodog wrote: »

And the vast majority of dogs will never bite someone. You cannot let a million to one chance affect how you look after a dog. If the dog is properly trained, socialised & under reasonable control then you have done everything that is needed.

You could argue that every human has the potential to be a killer or a child abuser so you can't leave them with children. In reality we have to balance probabilities.

Ten of thousands of GSD's are kept as pets all over the world. Few have been selected or specially trained but become wonderfully loyal, dependable family pets. The same applies to Dobermans, Bull Breeds etc.

The law needs to focus on irresponsible owners rather than putting more unnecessary controls on the rest.

Those laws are put on the everyone as they can not go around to every house and pick out who is responsible owner and who is not.

I couldn't argue that, as not every human is capable of abusing kids or rape.
Capable of killing someone yes all humans are capable of that.
If you are assuming your dog is not a potential for biting someone then you are a bad owner.All dogs all animals have a chance of biting,even if they never do still always possibility they could and thats how they should be treated with respect.

Discodog

caseyann wrote: »

Those laws are put on the everyone as they can not go around to every house and pick out who is responsible owner and who is not.

They don't need to. It is extremely easy to spot irresponsible owners. The laws exist to raise revenue & to control the number of dogs roaming the streets. It operates by killing the dogs & not punishing the owners.

caseyann wrote: »

Capable of killing someone yes all humans are capable of that.

Yes but we don't make law on the basis that this is likely to happen otherwise our streets would be full of armed police.

EGAR

caseyann wrote: »

All dogs are potentially viscous.

Ahhh . *Vicious* is not a word I would use in connection with dogs. Vicious means:

1. Deliberately cruel or violent.
2. (of an animal) Wild and dangerous to people

The only creature truly capable of viciousness is Man.

The Sweeper

caseyann wrote: »

Could be a pulled muscle or a tooth ache and the dog could rip shreds out of someone by pure accident.

I don't agree with this at all. A sore or otherwise distressed dog may snap at a person or deliver a single bite. It would take a sustained attack to 'rip shreds out of someone'. A dog needs to be seriously in drive to deliver a sustained, multi-bite attack.

If you have a dog capable of the level of drive required to deliver a sustained attack, I really cannot believe you won't have seen that tendency in the dog before the attack happens. (Though I do realise that many people who own dogs that are potentially dangerous, regardless of their breed, may not recognise that high drive tendency for what it is.)

Oranage2

There's a lot of 'scumbags' out there with pits and stafs that are well trained and social- there are also a lot of lovely people with non-restricted dogs that are animal aggressive -

Problem is the owners - and if you know your dog is vicious then you should muzzle and leash it and this goes towards the small terriers too.

Without doubt a JRT or a westie being walked by a lovely lady will start savaging my dog and when i kick their dog off mine they look at me like im the scumbag - I've a Springer spaniel.

Though nothing puts me more on edge when i see some scummer with a pit, but so far nothing has happened!

The Sweeper

You also need to be aware of the limitations of your dog. My bull arab X looks a little intimidating. However he is a sweet natured dog. (He lives with six cats.)

Saying that, I wouldn't trust him with smallies - maltese, JRT, CKC type dogs. My dog is best running with dogs the same size as him or larger, because he can be boisterous. He plays with a boxer bitch who's extremely full on and their play is REALLY physical - wrestling and throwing themselves around.

However, on a leash I'm happy to not muzzle my dog, because (a) he's not proven dog-aggressive (never been in a fight), and (b) he's leashed and I have no intention of letting him off that leash and I change direction if I see someone with a small dog because I don't want Gus going bananas and starting in on the wee dog. I also talk to owners from a distance, and ask them to call their dog away. I explain my guy is "boisterous and a bit full on", not "going to eat your dog".

Usually people are reasonable. Usually.

koneko

caseyann wrote: »

Those dogs are picked from young age by temperament and ability.And given a training schedule and some make it and others dont.Saying they are used for that is silly thing to say,they are trained as guard dogs and police dogs to take down people aswell.
Breaks my heart that people assume that other people are not afraid of those dogs and you should respect their fears.

Give it a rest, you know exactly what I'm saying. If the breed is automatically vicious and dangerous, they wouldn't be used in these situations. Stop trying to pick holes in people's posts to fit your own end.

Discodog

Oranage2 wrote: »

if you know your dog is vicious then you should muzzle and leash it

If you know that your dogs has aggressive tendencies you should train & rehabilitate it. If necessary call in a specialist trainer. This should be a legal requirement.

Muzzling may protect other dogs/humans when you are out but it won't protect when you are at home. So a muzzle is not a long term solution.

Whispered

The Sweeper wrote: »

Saying that, I wouldn't trust him with smallies - maltese, JRT, CKC type dogs. My dog is best running with dogs the same size as him or larger, because he can be boisterous. He plays with a boxer bitch who's extremely full on and their play is REALLY physical - wrestling and throwing themselves around.

My Harley is like that, not a bad bone in his body, just a few stupid ones He thinks every dog is his best friend and every dog is happy to play rough. Because of this I won't let him off lead around much smaller dogs.

He's a submissive player at times - he'll run over, knock into the other dog, then lie on his back wiggling. But when he gets excited, it's just a bit much for most smaller and some bigger dogs. He has been termed "impolite" by one or two people.

Sid_Justice

If there is no such thing as a vicious breed or dangerous breed are people saying breed associated temperament is nonsense? I just read the post about the UCD vet study and it's got a number of flaws. Especially the bit in bold, "common dogs bite more commonly than rarer dogs"? Well isn't that just a piece of genius and insight? Dogs that are more common than other breeds by a factor of 10 (retrievers, small terriers, collies and their crosses) then others... no sh1t sherlock.

I absolutely take the point that training, rearing and adequate socialising are the most important contributors to the behaviour of the individual animal. But let's not pretend that a nip from a jack russel (which may indeed cause a a&e visit, blood tests, shots and plenty of stress and worry) is not going to kill you. Being attacked by any of the 25+kg dogs with jaws bigger than your arm could be deadly, especially to small people.

I think anyone who lives near 'rough areas' will know of the trend of young people with hands down their pants and pants tucked into their socks walking around with dogs with the physical capability of mauling other dogs and people to death. I don't trust them with this responsibility (as offensive, politically incorrect and snobby/prejudice this may be to judge all teenagers like this). These breeds, their crosses and their mimics should be muzzled at all times, never off the lease in public area and euthanised immediately after any violence. I also approve of the phasing out of restricted breeds in council properties and in the meantime encouraging micro-chipping, neutering and spaying.

There is no right to own a dog it's a privilege and if you don't want to obey the rules of the land on the topic tough sh1t.

Bullseye1

Discodog wrote: »

If you know that your dogs has aggressive tendencies you should train & rehabilitate it. If necessary call in a specialist trainer. This should be a legal requirement.

Muzzling may protect other dogs/humans when you are out but it won't protect when you are at home. So a muzzle is not a long term solution.

It does keep your dog out of possible trouble so until your satisfied it won't be a problem better to air on the side of precaution.

Frecklefart90

The thing that annoys me is when im out walking my boxer (8 months) people will pull their little yorkies etc closer in to them. Layla is the friendliest dog ive ever seen, she is also very curious about EVERYTHING, she is a boxer pup, there is no way to change that. The disgust that some older people(women) look at her makes my blood boil. We were out walking her the other night and a couple crossed the road to avoid us, its ridiculous.

A few weeks back we had her up at the Shannon Estuary like always, a woman appeared with her 2 mongrels. One of them kept walking but one wanted to play with Layla so we let them run around the field we were in. The little fúcker jumped up and latched onto Laylas face and wouldnt let go, the woman tried to pass it off as if they were just playing. Im sorry but blood coming from my dogs face isnt a result of playing.

And this is a boxer, i can only imagine the reaction people with Staffies etc get.

Bullseye1

I agree with alot of what you have written. Now subtract the word dog and replace with child and you see a much bigger problem in this country. Parents who are incapable or unwilling to bring up their kids properly. This is the much bigger problem Ireland as a society has.

Sid_Justice wrote: »

If there is no such thing as a vicious breed or dangerous breed are people saying breed associated temperament is nonsense? I just read the post about the UCD vet study and it's got a number of flaws. Especially the bit in bold, "common dogs bite more commonly than rarer dogs"? Well isn't that just a piece of genius and insight? Dogs that are more common than other breeds by a factor of 10 (retrievers, small terriers, collies and their crosses) then others... no sh1t sherlock.

I absolutely take the point that training, rearing and adequate socialising are the most important contributors to the behaviour of the individual animal. But let's not pretend that a nip from a jack russel (which may indeed cause a a&e visit, blood tests, shots and plenty of stress and worry) is not going to kill you. Being attacked by any of the 25+kg dogs with jaws bigger than your arm could be deadly, especially to small people.

I think anyone who lives near 'rough areas' will know of the trend of young people with hands down their pants and pants tucked into their socks walking around with dogs with the physical capability of mauling other dogs and people to death. I don't trust them with this responsibility (as offensive, politically incorrect and snobby/prejudice this may be to judge all teenagers like this). These breeds, their crosses and their mimics should be muzzled at all times, never off the lease in public area and euthanised immediately after any violence. I also approve of the phasing out of restricted breeds in council properties and in the meantime encouraging micro-chipping, neutering and spaying.

There is no right to own a dog it's a privilege and if you don't want to obey the rules of the land on the topic tough sh1t.

Discodog

Sid_Justice wrote: »

These breeds, their crosses and their mimics should be muzzled at all times, never off the lease in public area and euthanised immediately after any violence

You screen name doesn't offer much justice for the dog. The owner should have to surrender the dog & then pay for all the assessment, retraining, & kennelling costs. The dog should only be put down if, in the view of experts, there is no other option.

Killing the dog just allows the owner to go & get another one. Anyone who promotes aggression in a dog should be treated as if they were in possession of a weapon.

Discodog

Frecklefart90 wrote: »

And this is a boxer, i can only imagine the reaction people with Staffies etc get.

I have had four Boxers & they are the most misunderstood dogs on the planet. "Is that a Bulldog ?" :mad:

Discodog

Bullseye1 wrote: »

Parents who are incapable or unwilling to bring up their kids properly. This is the much bigger problem Ireland as a society has.

If a young child commits a crime we don't imprison it. We accept that it is too young to understand the consequences of it's actions & is influenced by it's upbringing.

A typical dog has the "intellect" of a two year old. Yet we blame the dog.