Ag2r: Roche vs Gadret

buffalo

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/lavenu-hopes-gadret-will-ride-tour-de-france

Ag2r-La Mondiale manager Vincent Lavenu has refused to rule out the possibility of fielding John Gadret alongside Nicolas Roche at the Tour de France.

Gadret, who finished the Giro d’Italia in 4th place on Sunday, told Cyclingnews at the finish in Milan that Tour participation was a “big question mark” but Lavenu has listed the Frenchman in his provisional roster of 13 pre-selected riders.

“I hope that he does the Tour, but the decision hasn’t been taken,” Lavenu told L’Équipe. “We’ve put his name on the list of thirteen, and in a week or ten days John will say what he plans on doing.”

Lavenu admitted that Gadret’s stunning performance at the Giro meant that the 32-year-old’s standing in the team had grown, and that he had the freedom to decide for himself if he felt capable of performing at a high level so soon after his endeavours in Italy.

“I’ll leave the decision to him, his status after the Giro gives him the authority,” Lavenu explained. “But if he goes to the Tour, it won’t be reluctantly.”

Ireland’s Nicolas Roche, 15th last year and then 7th at the Vuelta a España, is nominally Ag2r’s leader for the Tour, but Lavenu insisted that his team did not operate on a strictly hierarchical structure.

“There isn’t an uncontested leader like Nibali at Liquigas or Scarponi at Lampre,” he said.

A lack of clarity regarding the roles of Roche and Gadret could cause its own headaches, however. When Roche punctured 6km from the top of the Port de Bales on stage 15 last year, Gadret refused to give his apparent leader his wheel and then attacked from the group of favourites while Roche was chasing back on.

...

I caught up with the Grio's final TT yesterday evening, and I was pondering on this. Gadret is obviously in great form at the moment, and Roche has had a fairly forgettable season so far.

I was under the impression that Roche was definite team leader last year, though that seems to be downplayed by Ag2r now. But will we see a reversal of that situation, and Roche riding for Gadret? Or will both of them be riding as equals, until one pulls ahead?

Discuss.

Lumen

It's like Lance-Alberto all over again. Except cleaner, maybe.

RobFowl

Lumen wrote: »

It's like Lance-Alberto all over again. Except cleaner, maybe.

Cleaner and slower

bcmf

Will Gadret really have the legs for the Tour after an incredibly tough Giro.

ROK ON

I think that Nico would make a great super- domestique. I see no evidence that he has what it takes to lead a team and fight for honours.
Gadret is strong as an ox but that's about it. Gadret has obviously studied the Marmolada massacre, surprisingly Roche hasn't.

He's a good climber for a non climber, a good sprinter for a non sprinter and can't time trial. Why would anyone expect that he should lead a team in cyclings blue ribbon event.

Hail 2 Da Thief

The thought of Roche having to ride for Gadret in the TdF makes me feel queasy!

tbf though, Gadret rode very well in the Giro. Maybe the competition will bring out the best in Roche!

happytramp

I'm guessing if he does ride the tour it'll be a free for all at Agr2 until someone pulls a clear advantage. The team leader and team orders probably won't become important until later on. Anyway inter-team competition might make for a more exciting Tour.

Chips Lovell

Gadret can climb. And that's about it. Roche is a more rounded rider. Having said that, I'd be worried about his form.

ednwireland

Hail 2 Da Thief wrote: »

The thought of Roche having to ride for Gadret in the TdF makes me feel queasy!

eerrr its pro cycling, if gadret rides better than roche he is team leader end of

which one has won a grand tour stage anyway ?

Hail 2 Da Thief

ednwireland wrote: »

eerrr its pro cycling, if gadret rides better than roche he is team leader end of

Where did I say this shouldn't be the case? I was merely stating my dislike for Gadrets past antics!

ednwireland wrote: »

which one has won a grand tour stage anyway ?

vvvvv I gave him props for his Giro performance

Hail 2 Da Thief wrote: »

tbf though, Gadret rode very well in the Giro

GetWithIt

Still no sign of the route for this years TdF. Any indication as to what sort of rider it would suit?

ednwireland

GetWithIt wrote: »

Still no sign of the route for this years TdF. Any indication as to what sort of rider it would suit?

what you on about

route out since late last year

http://www.letour.fr/2011/TDF/COURSE/us/100/etape_par_etape.html


The route
Running from Saturday July 2nd to Sunday July 24th 2011, the 98th Tour de France will be made up of 21 stages and will cover a total distance of 3,471 kilometres (before approval).

These stages have the following profiles:

•10 flat stages,
•6 mountain stages and 4 summit finishes,
•3 medium mountain stages,
•1 individual time-trial stage (41 km).
•1 team time-trial stage (23 km).
Distinctive aspects of the race
•le Galibier climbed twice,
•2 rest days,
•23 level 2, 1 or highest level mountain passes or summit finishes,
•no bonuses will be awarded during the intermediate sprints and stage finishes.

Captain Havoc

GetWithIt wrote: »

Still no sign of the route for this years TdF. Any indication as to what sort of rider it would suit?

Route gets announced in October, I've already planned which stage I'm going to (6) .

buffalo

ednwireland wrote: »

eerrr its pro cycling, if gadret rides better than roche he is team leader end of

You can accept the professional realities, but still be disappointed that an Irish* rider isn't acting as the team leader.

If it does turn out that way, it would be somewhat hilarious if the situation arose that Gadret had to ask for Roche's wheel. Unlikely, I know, but still.

*or half-Irish, but let's not start that.

ednwireland

buffalo wrote: »

You can accept the professional realities, but still be disappointed that an Irish* rider isn't acting as the team leader.

If it does turn out that way, it would be somewhat hilarious if the situation arose that Gadret had to ask for Roche's wheel. Unlikely, I know, but still.

*or half-Irish, but let's not start that.

lucky i'm fairly stateless myself

yes lets save that last one for a friday during the tour eh

Lumen

ednwireland wrote: »

lucky i'm fairly stateless myself

yes lets save that last one for a friday during the tour eh

Look, it's simple. When he wins he's Irish. When he loses he's French.

Captain Havoc

Lumen wrote: »

Look, it's simple. When he wins he's Irish. When he loses he's French.

I've never heard anyone British suggest anything like that before.

GlennaMaddy

Roche and Gadret might have to take a back seat to Nocintini if he flukes his way into yellow again (assuming he makes the team)

TheBlaaMan

I'm surprised no-one appears to have commented on the strange irony about this possible state of affairs: in '87 Stephen Roche was miffed at not being chosen as team leader for the Giro with Carrerra instead of Roberto Visentini. Roche's early year performance had been excellent, compared to the teams erstwhile 'leader' Visentini.

So Visentini was leader for the early stages until Roche showed him whats-what...........and went on to win.

Could chickens coming home to roost take 24 years to hatch? I hope not, and I'll be rooting for Nico - he needs a win - of some sort!

TBH, Gadret sounded as if he was ruling thoughts of the TdF when interviewed after the Giro, so it may be a non-issue.

ROK ON

TheBlaaMan wrote: »

I'm surprised no-one appears to have commented on the strange irony about this possible state of affairs: in '87 Stephen Roche was miffed at not being chosen as team leader for the Giro with Carrerra instead of Roberto Visentini.

ROK ON wrote: »

Gadret has obviously studied the Marmolada massacre, surprisingly Roche hasn't.

From Wiki: "Despite his stage wins, the race is remembered for the stage from Lido di Jesolo to Sappada, where Roche, contravening team orders,[2] broke away alone early and despite being caught late in the race, had the strength to go with the counterattack and take the pink jersey from his team-mate Roberto Visentini, who had been previously leading the classification. His behaviour in the stage gained him the tifosi's hatred.[3] It was said the only member of his team that Roche could rely on not to ride against him was his domestique Eddy Schepers, although Roche recruited Panasonic riders and ACBB team-mates Robert Millar and Australian Phil Anderson to protect him with Schepers on the Marmolada climb (a day known as the "Marmolada Massacre")."

cormpat

Lumen wrote: »

Look, it's simple. When he wins he's Irish. When he loses he's French.

So he's pretty much French all the time.:D

ontheditch2

ROK ON wrote: »

From Wiki: "Despite his stage wins, the race is remembered for the stage from Lido di Jesolo to Sappada, where Roche, contravening team orders,[2] broke away alone early and despite being caught late in the race, had the strength to go with the counterattack and take the pink jersey from his team-mate Roberto Visentini, who had been previously leading the classification. His behaviour in the stage gained him the tifosi's hatred.[3] It was said the only member of his team that Roche could rely on not to ride against him was his domestique Eddy Schepers, although Roche recruited Panasonic riders and ACBB team-mates Robert Millar and Australian Phil Anderson to protect him with Schepers on the Marmolada climb (a day known as the "Marmolada Massacre")."

This Marmolada Massacre seems fierce interesting, is there any more information on it?? I get the general gist of what happened, but it just seems like a fantastic story..

happytramp

Couldn't find any decent first hand accounts of the incident but these links helped to fill me in on the bigger picture of the 1987 Giro.

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest/346952/from-the-cw-archives-the-1987-giro-d-italia-part-1.html

This is the first part the rest are linked at the bottom of the page.

TheBlaaMan

Point taken, Mr ROK ON, but it was specifically the lead-up to the '87 Giro that I was trying to compare to the current situation, while the Marmolada Massacre was the inevitable finale of the affair.

There's an old (and somewhat psychophantic..) interview with Roche from shortly after his amazing triumpns in '87 on YouTube (no access in work, so I cannot link) where he recounts the gritty details of that year. Also, this archives of Cyclingweekly have a stage-by-stage account in 4-5 parts, starting here: http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest/346952/from-the-cw-archives-the-1987-giro-d-italia-part-1.html Enjoy the read.

There appears to only be some short, poor quality, video clips of the 87 Giro available in the public domain, mostly overdubbed with crappy music -for added 'drama'


Edit: beaten to it!

Hail 2 Da Thief

Gadret:

“If I go to the Tour, it will be as a support rider for [Jean Christophe] Péraud and [Nicolas] Roche

Link

kilns

from todays stage

Great return to form for Roche, coming in 5th on the stage 7 seconds behind winner van der broeck.

Hopefully a sign of things to come

Pat Kavanagh

It would be good to see the Irish Champion's jersey up there in the Tour. Will Dan Martin be riding the Tour? If not I hope Roche will be wearing it.

ajk24

Pat Kavanagh wrote: »

It would be good to see the Irish Champion's jersey up there in the Tour. Will Dan Martin be riding the Tour? If not I hope Roche will be wearing it.

matt brammier is the current champ. not sure if he is in htc's plans

ROK ON

Pat Kavanagh wrote: »

It would be good to see the Irish Champion's jersey up there in the Tour. Will Dan Martin be riding the Tour? If not I hope Roche will be wearing it.

An interview with Dan Martins dad recently revealed that he has been pre-selected with 11 others. Garmin will reduce that to 9 shortly.

I would think that he stands a reasonable chance of going in order to help Hesjedal in the mountains (provide a counterfoil etc).
Millar goes, as does Husovd and Fararr. Hausler is out. So its a question of DZ and either a few others in the sprint train or go all out to enable Hesjedal better last years placing.

furiousox

Read all about it in September!

ednwireland

furiousox wrote: »

Read all about it in September!

preorder
http://www.bookdepository.co.uk/Inside-Peloton-Nicholas-Roche/9781848271104

€12.93

Inquitus

Roche and Gadret selected for the AG2R TDF Team.....

http://twitter.com/#!/irishcycling

Interesting to see how this pans out!

SACH Central

furiousox wrote: »

Read all about it in September!

I hope it's not just a collection of his articles from the Irish Independent?

shaungil

On principle I wouldn't buy abook of any sports person until they retire. Don't believe it can be a proper account as they will have to work with the same people so are not going to give a true opinion. Articles are good but a book......

ROK ON

shaungil wrote: »

On principle I wouldn't buy abook of any sports person until they retire. Don't believe it can be a proper account as they will have to work with the same people so are not going to give a true opinion. Articles are good but a book......

On principal I wouldn't buy abook of any sports person until they have actually won something of note. . . .Placing in the top 20 aint bad nut a win :rolleyes:

shaungil

hhhmmm a bit harsh on poor Nicholas. I read Paul Kimmages book and he won nothing of note I believe. Insert can full of worms icon here.

happytramp

ontheditch2 wrote: »

This Marmolada Massacre seems fierce interesting, is there any more information on it?? I get the general gist of what happened, but it just seems like a fantastic story..

Just found this tonight. If you want the dirt, this is it! Absolutely cracking read!

http://www.podiumcafe.com/2011/6/6/2209374/Stephen-Roche

petethedrummer

happytramp wrote: »

Just found this tonight. If you want the dirt, this is it! Absolutely cracking read!

http://www.podiumcafe.com/2011/6/6/2209374/Stephen-Roche

That was tremendous.

TheBlaaMan

Yeah, a great read over the last hour...............quite a few things on my to-do list for the night left undone now.

Chartsengrafs

Great read, though where did my evening go!?

mahoo

happytramp wrote: »

Just found this tonight. If you want the dirt, this is it! Absolutely cracking read!

http://www.podiumcafe.com/2011/6/6/2209374/Stephen-Roche

nothing like a good soap opera on a monday night... great article

ontheditch2

cheers Happytramp, thats a great read, very interesting.. They could make a good film out of that race..

shaungil

great read

Phil2me

Fabulous read.....I should remember more about it but I don't....

luapenak

Great Read. Thanks.

TheFredJ

happytramp wrote: »

Just found this tonight. If you want the dirt, this is it! Absolutely cracking read!

http://www.podiumcafe.com/2011/6/6/2209374/Stephen-Roche

If you liked that check out the following:

Villach 87
Tales from Lombardia
Paris-Nice - The Irish Years
Kelly's Spring Campaign
The Stolen Vuelta

You'll generally find my crap on the Cafe Bookshelf. Mostly it's just book reviews, though the reviews often have stories in them (eg this week's Badger stuff) sometimes it's a bit more ... dope related. eg The Delgado Affaire. If anyone wants to suggest topics - twitterfy me

el tel

Does 18th in the French RR championship trump 4th in Ireland?

RobFowl

el tel wrote: »

Does 18th in the French RR championship trump 4th in Ireland?

From the form Nic showed at the nationals I fear that Gadret will be the leader after the first few mountain stages.
Hope I wrong though.

ROK ON

RobFowl wrote: »

From the form Nic showed at the nationals I fear that Gadret will be the leader after the first few mountain stages.
Hope I wrong though.

Had an unlucky year re injuries and crashes.

RobFowl

ROK ON wrote: »

Had an unlucky year re injuries and crashes.

Awful. every time he shows a bit of form bang and back to scratch.

The first few stages are not too hard do maybe he'll ride himself into form.

Pherekydes

el tel wrote: »

Does 18th in the French RR championship trump 4th in Ireland?

Not really comparable.

Roche is the undisputed leader, but I reckon Gadret will finish highest. Roche has missed a lot of prep.

I think we'll see 2 possible scenarios: Roche starts strongly and dies gradually as the race progresses, or starts poorly and gets stronger as the race progresses. Hope I'm wrong on both counts.