Vast number of abandoned dogs in Ireland

suziwalsh

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

There has never been any form of animal welfare education in any school that I know of anywhere remotely near me, so no, nationwide means in every single school in the country, not just those that are easy to travel to . That's great if something like this has started, can't wait for them to come to Donegal where fences are an urban myth, vaccinations are considered a money racket and you get laughed out of the place for suggesting that dogs need social interaction. :rolleyes:

Schools have to call them and book appointments....they can't just turn up!

I do however know there is a huge waiting list as it usually takes a few days to get to talk to every class in a school but if you do have friends who are teachers get them to ring. Also I know that a good few local rescues do school talks, not as fancy but a talk none the less. I do a good few but only in Dublin/Meath/Kildare as my petrol buget is not huge being a self funded volunteer

I do think that there is a rescue in Donegal that does talks as I know dogs trust will send out literature etc to rescues willing to do talks. All their stuff for kids is great

suziwalsh

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

Rescues would have no need to export dogs to the UK if the major puppy farms are put out of business. Someone posted here yesterday that breed specific rescue for Golden Retrievers refuses to rehome in Ireland, I find that absolutely ridiculous, there are people who want to give a home to golden retriever and the organisation I would imagine would be dealing with the bulk of them would rather send them on to the destination that was intended for them in the first place, while people here source them from where exactly if they can't find one in a rescue?? They might find a reputable breeder, they might bring one in from the UK or they might help fund some of those GR rescue is getting all these dogs from. I find this thinking completely insane and all it does is add weight to idiotic nonscence being spouted by certain individuals who are CEO's of certain animal welfare organisations. :rolleyes:

I do agree that dogs should be homed here first....but then again it depends on the quality of the home. I think that GR rescue as far as I know cannot home here at the moment due to their representative in Ireland being very unwell and with no one to over see homing or vet fees etc it makes it very difficult as they are a UK rescue and not an Irish one so don't have the resources here. There are also many rescues who do not rehome to the UK or send dogs abroad.

I don't think that the puppy farmers are the only issue and I still think there would be dogs abandoned in pounds, I actually think its feeling that a dogs is disposable for many people in this country. As I said before my dog was not from a puppy farm, actually neither are the second came from the pound through a home that never asked their landlords permission to have a dog. He originally came from a farm (not a puppy farm) who felt that neutering affected how his dogs worked. Which brings me to another point there are huge numbers of collies abandoned in shelters, that are certainly non products of puppy farms but the farming lifestyle. I have helped rehome thousands of dogs and although obviously i detest puppy farms above all else I don't think they are the only issue.

Shanao

Between Bybs, Puppy farmers, Rescues turned hoarders, Chuggers, people who dont research their breed, dog fighters, designer dog breeders, people who believe in a bitch needing at least one litter and those who want to get something because its 'cute', I think its pretty easy to see why things have gotten so bad. As ISDW said, people somehow think its a right to own an animal, and its going to be a long time before that attitude changes unfortunately.
I recently met a woman who has a labrador who had an accidental two years ago by a collie and, in her words, "the pups were so gorgeous that we decided to breed them with each other again". I'm sick of attitudes like this, and if i meet one more person with a cavachon, or a yorkidoodle or ****tichon or whatever the hell they're calling them now, I think I really will just give up on hope for this country.

Oh, and the very best thing i heard lately: "The breeder was so nice, he met us halfway so we wouldn't have to travel the whole distance." This from someone who has a cav puppy who's probably the most nervous puppy I've ever met and is already showing serious behavioural problems.

Education and legislation seem to be what we need here, but I cant see one working without the other.

Sorry for ranting, but the animal welfare situation in this country is pretty much driving me insane.

pokertalk

there is one way to cut out puppy farming and bgbs . make it illegal to buy any dog that would deffo filter out the people who are only in it for the money and the people who do it for the love of their breed would carry on breeding responsilby ahhhhhhhh yes what a perfect world that would be:D

suziwalsh

pokertalk wrote: »

there is one way to cut out puppy farming and bgbs . make it illegal to buy any dog that would deffo filter out the people who are only in it for the money and the people who do it for the love of their breed would carry on breeding responsilby ahhhhhhhh yes what a perfect world that would be:D

Ha ha ha very true! I would like in order to get a dog licence you have to sit through a responsible dog ownership talk.....and for it to be enforced. You must show proof of dog licence before purchase etc. Think in some european countries that is in place.

Themadhouse

pokertalk wrote: »

there is one way to cut out puppy farming and bgbs . make it illegal to buy any dog that would deffo filter out the people who are only in it for the money and the people who do it for the love of their breed would carry on breeding responsilby ahhhhhhhh yes what a perfect world that would be:D

:rolleyes:

mystika121

I think that more needs to be done to match people who want a specific breed with dogs of that breed that need rehoming.

About five years ago I was looking to rehome an Yorkie/Yorkie X. I left my contact details on the voice mail of two rescues and received no call back. I spoke to a person in a third rescue and explained that my Yorkie had died several months ago and I felt ready to adopt another dog. I only had room for a small dog to live in the house and as I had a rescue Yorkie previously I would be keen for another one. The person listened to my story and then said if I wanted a particular breed 'get the Buy and Sell'. I was so shocked!

Anyway, I put this down to catching the person on a bad day. However, I recently met a lady I used to work with. She mentioned she was looking for a Cocker Spaniel as a companion for her older dog who is also a Cocker Spaniel. I suggested she phone a rescue and see if they have any or can put her in touch with a breed specific rescue. She said 'Oh I tried that and they suggested I contact a Breeder'

Now I can only imagine how busy rescue centres are these days and I wouldn't expect them to go searching for a dog for this lady but to suggest she contact a Breeder just makes no sense to me. A Corker Spaniel and a Yorkie are by know means rare breeds and I'm sure there are plenty of both in rescues up and down the country.

I just worry that perhaps people who are trying to do the right thing and adopt a dog, and then get that advice, end up as customers of less than ideal breeders.

suziwalsh

mystika121 wrote: »

I think that more needs to be done to match people who want a specific breed with dogs of that breed that need rehoming.

About five years ago I was looking to rehome an Yorkie/Yorkie X. I left my contact details on the voice mail of two rescues and received no call back. I spoke to a person in a third rescue and explained that my Yorkie had died several months ago and I felt ready to adopt another dog. I only had room for a small dog to live in the house and as I had a rescue Yorkie previously I would be keen for another one. The person listened to my story and then said if I wanted a particular breed 'get the Buy and Sell'. I was so shocked!

Anyway, I put this down to catching the person on a bad day. However, I recently met a lady I used to work with. She mentioned she was looking for a Cocker Spaniel as a companion for her older dog who is also a Cocker Spaniel. I suggested she phone a rescue and see if they have any or can put her in touch with a breed specific rescue. She said 'Oh I tried that and they suggested I contact a Breeder'

Now I can only imagine how busy rescue centres are these days and I wouldn't expect them to go searching for a dog for this lady but to suggest she contact a Breeder just makes no sense to me. A Corker Spaniel and a Yorkie are by know means rare breeds and I'm sure there are plenty of both in rescues up and down the country.

I just worry that perhaps people who are trying to do the right thing and adopt a dog, and then get that advice, end up as customers of less than ideal breeders.

Absolutely dreadful and disgraceful on part of the rescue. Would love to know who they were! If someone asked me for a particular breed I go to the ends of the earth to find one. Search through every organisation and pound. Its rare that you dont find what youre looking for it just depends on the time frame. But I am shocked and horrified that a memember of a rescue would say get a dog from a breeder !!! Shameful :mad:

mystika121

Thanks suziwalsh, I am glad to say I kept phoning rescues and I was given the details of a person who had to surrender a Yorkie and was waiting for a place in a shelter.

The lady I used to work with said that her daughter bought her a Cocker Spaniel.

crally

Hi I did notice the comments but I am not interested in getting into a banter with someone over what they 'think', it is a was of time and energy:)

crally

hi i am all up for rescues but it is very easy to open a rescue. There was a case of dog down around Kerry, the old man went into hospital and left his dog into a 'shelter' and was paying the woman to take care of the dog. a friend of mine took the dog and rehomed him, he was in a terrible state, with urine staining all down his legs etc. The dog is now with a great family but like anything else you will have to make sure it is a good rescue!

ppink

ISDW wrote: »

Unfortunately on point 2, a lot of them are as they come from puppy farmers and bybs who haven't done any health tests. The mother would usually not be looked after very well while in pup, and the pups probably wouldn't get the best start to life either.

Very, very few of the huskies of malamutes that I have taken in and rehomed have been great examples of the breeds. Great dogs yes, but not very well bred. Now as a pet, hopefully they won't be unhealthy, but for the purpose of the breeds that they are, they also won't be the best working dogs as they may be too small, or too tall, have bad conformation etc. Conformation isn't just about dogs looking pretty, its about them being physically fit for purpose.

Is this not because there are simply more of them? I mean there is no "reputable" breeder going to match the puppy farmers for output, therefore there are just simply more of them being bred.

What do reputable breeders do with dogs that dont meet the criteria? I mean out of a litter you will not get every dog who will be a good example of the breed, so where do they go?........sold on and possibly bred again?
By criteria and good example of the breed are we back to the show dogs again, which always makes me question if the KC know what they are doing anyway.......but that is just from my experiences with my dogs.

ISDW

crally wrote: »

Hi I did notice the comments but I am not interested in getting into a banter with someone over what they 'think', it is a was of time and energy:)

Sorry, I don't understand, you started a thread on a discussion forum, are you saying you aren't willing to discuss things? Its your way or the highway, and nobody else's opinion is valid? Thats surely not what you're saying

crally wrote: »

hi i am all up for rescues but it is very easy to open a rescue. There was a case of dog down around Kerry, the old man went into hospital and left his dog into a 'shelter' and was paying the woman to take care of the dog. a friend of mine took the dog and rehomed him, he was in a terrible state, with urine staining all down his legs etc. The dog is now with a great family but like anything else you will have to make sure it is a good rescue!

You're confusing me, yes there are rescues that aren't the best out there, but in your first post you are pushing rehoming from a pound. Pounds aren't great, they're merely a place that strays/surrenders go, I don't know any pound in Ireland that does homevisits, follow ups etc, so should people not take dogs from there either? Maybe I'm not fully awake yet, but I'm just confused by your posts.

ppink

crally wrote: »

Hi I did notice the comments but I am not interested in getting into a banter with someone over what they 'think', it is a was of time and energy:)

what did you start the thread for so?

ISDW

ppink wrote: »

Is this not because there are simply more of them? I mean there is no "reputable" breeder going to match the puppy farmers for output, therefore there are just simply more of them being bred.

What do reputable breeders do with dogs that dont meet the criteria? I mean out of a litter you will not get every dog who will be a good example of the breed, so where do they go?........sold on and possibly bred again?
By criteria and good example of the breed are we back to the show dogs again, which always makes me question if the KC know what they are doing anyway.......but that is just from my experiences with my dogs.

I think thats where the definition of reputable breeder may differ between people. In my opinion, a reputable breeder only breeds for themselves anyway, not to supply a market, obviously they won't keep an entire litter, so then they have pups available. But, like with a good welfare organisation, they have a puppy contract and any dog that has to be rehomed from an owner has to go back to the breeder. They will then either keep it, or rehome it, preferably spayed/neutered if not used for showing.

Any breeder that doesn't take back unwanted dogs is not a reputable breeder, thats why when people ask for advice on here about breeding their dogs, that point comes up, can you take back all of the puppies that you breed for their entire lives?

As for selling pups and them being used for breeding, the papers have endorsements on, so that any progeny cannot be registered. These endorsements will only be lifted if the the breeder is satisfied that the dog is a great example of the breed, and that the owner knows what they are doing regarding breeding. Again, like a good welfare organisation, breeders such as this will do homevisits, interview prospective owners etc, so they should know that the pups are going to good homes. Unfortunately, people being people, sometimes they will slip through the net and fool the breeder, which must be heartbreaking, thinking your pup is going to a great home, then finding out its not the case.

Its really not that difficult to do, but unfortunately very few breeders do it - even those that are considered reputable by a lot of dog people. Unless the criteria I have set out above are matched, then personally I don't consider anybody to be a reputable breeder.

Cherry Blossom

ppink wrote: »

what did you start the thread for so?

For the purpose of opinion ramming perhaps?

ppink

ISDW wrote: »

I think thats where the definition of reputable breeder may differ between people. In my opinion, a reputable breeder only breeds for themselves anyway, not to supply a market, obviously they won't keep an entire litter, so then they have pups available. But, like with a good welfare organisation, they have a puppy contract and any dog that has to be rehomed from an owner has to go back to the breeder. They will then either keep it, or rehome it, preferably spayed/neutered if not used for showing.

Any breeder that doesn't take back unwanted dogs is not a reputable breeder, thats why when people ask for advice on here about breeding their dogs, that point comes up, can you take back all of the puppies that you breed for their entire lives?

As for selling pups and them being used for breeding, the papers have endorsements on, so that any progeny cannot be registered. These endorsements will only be lifted if the the breeder is satisfied that the dog is a great example of the breed, and that the owner knows what they are doing regarding breeding. Again, like a good welfare organisation, breeders such as this will do homevisits, interview prospective owners etc, so they should know that the pups are going to good homes. Unfortunately, people being people, sometimes they will slip through the net and fool the breeder, which must be heartbreaking, thinking your pup is going to a great home, then finding out its not the case.

Its really not that difficult to do, but unfortunately very few breeders do it - even those that are considered reputable by a lot of dog people. Unless the criteria I have set out above are matched, then personally I don't consider anybody to be a reputable breeder.

thats actually quite interesting. I have never come across anyone that does it and it seems like a good plan. Does the breeder always get the right to decide unanimously though.....or should any prospective breeding animals have to be health screened.

I always thought myself that 2 things would help

1. if dog licences were a substantial charge

2. if dogs cost a lot more that they do

I think if people were spending substantial money on a dog then they would be more inclined to research it.....like most people do with cars or bicycles or even mobile phones! usually more thought and reasearch goes intot he purchase of these items!

ISDW

ppink wrote: »

thats actually quite interesting. I have never come across anyone that does it and it seems like a good plan. Does the breeder always get the right to decide unanimously though.....or should any prospective breeding animals have to be health screened.

I always thought myself that 2 things would help

1. if dog licences were a substantial charge

2. if dogs cost a lot more that they do

I think if people were spending substantial money on a dog then they would be more inclined to research it.....like most people do with cars or bicycles or even mobile phones! usually more thought and reasearch goes intot he purchase of these items!

Thats the problem, very few breeders actually do it, even those that have a reputation as being reputable. It doesn't matter how many champions your dog has in its pedigree, I don't think that means they should be bred willy-nilly. It is easy to do though, if you only breed 1 litter every couple of years, you would have a reputation and have a waiting list of people for your pups. However, if you breed 2/3 litters a year, much harder to do. Sorry, yes, the breeder would obviously insist on the dog having all health tests done before lifting endorsements.

There are some breeders on this island like that, but they are very few and far between. But, it is only people like that I think that should be breeding.

I don't know if I necessarily agree with you about the price, during the boom years people were paying a lot of money for pedigree dogs, but they were still ending up in pounds and rescues. Maybe now that money is an issue for more people, things will change.

To borrow from Tony Blair though, I think its only Education, Education, Education that is going to change things.:)

Wrighty82

There's a great campaign being run at the moment to donate tins of dogfood to groups like MADRA, ASH, DSPCA, Pauline's Animal Rescue and many others:

http://www.facebook.com/BuyandSell.ie

ISDW

Wrighty82 wrote: »

There's a great campaign being run at the moment to donate tins of dogfood to groups like MADRA, ASH, DSPCA, Pauline's Animal Rescue and many others:

http://www.facebook.com/BuyandSell.ie

On a site that helps to fuel the problem by selling animals - ironic or what:rolleyes:

EGAR

It makes no odds how much a dog costs. I have had very rare and expensive breeds in rescue here. If people want to get rid, they get rid regardless of what they may have paid for the dog.

I do the rounds in the N.S.'s around here every year and the level of complete ignorance is staggering. Over 50% of 8-14 year olds I have given talks to believe that an animal does not feel fear or pain.

Also, many people do not know that pounds are not shelters and that their surrendered dog can be pts'd straight away as surrendered dogs do NOT get the 5 days stray time.

I believe the only way forward (in an ideal world):

- banning of puppy farms

- ANYONE breeding a litter must pay tax on the pups, regardless of IKC or not

- compulsory microchipping and a passport like horses, with a central register

- dog licences for spayed/neutered dogs very low and very expensive for unneutered dogs (unless for medical reasons)

- rescues should be allowed to sell dog licences for the dogs they re-home to supplement their "income"

- complete banning of sale of animals on the likes of DoneDeal, BuyandSell, Gumtree etc

- heavy fines for allowing a dog to stray, maybe layered, 2 strikes and you are it

- and compulsory training classes for those who can't control their dogs

- fines/jail for those who train their dogs to be aggressive, so far only the dogs who have bitten have paid the price with their lives whereas their owners are free to go and get another dog to f*ck up

EGAR

Export of rescue dogs to UK, Italy etc.

The amount of pound rescues has risen and many of these ship vast amounts of dogs over to the UK etc so do many other rescues. This obviously creates a false positive for the pound statistics, there are no numbers available of HOW many dogs go to the UK etc every week.

ppink

EGAR wrote: »

I do the rounds in the N.S.'s around here every year and the level of complete ignorance is staggering. Over 50% of 8-14 year olds I have given talks to believe that an animal does not feel fear or pain.

Jaysus:(

EGAR wrote: »

- compulsory microchipping and a passport like horses, with a central register

Is a passport law now for horses? I know a horse rescue that told me they NEVER get passports for the horses they adopt out as it is too much hassle.

EGAR wrote: »

- dog licences for spayed/neutered dogs very low and very expensive for unneutered dogs (unless for medical reasons)

- rescues should be allowed to sell dog licences for the dogs they re-home to supplement their "income"

- complete banning of sale of animals on the likes of DoneDeal, BuyandSell, Gumtree etc

- heavy fines for allowing a dog to stray, maybe layered, 2 strikes and you are it

- and compulsory training classes for those who can't control their dogs

- fines/jail for those who train their dogs to be aggressive, so far only the dogs who have bitten have paid the price with their lives whereas their owners are free to go and get another dog to f*ck up

Good ideas there!

EGAR

ppink wrote: »

Is a passport law now for horses? I know a horse rescue that told me they NEVER get passports for the horses they adopt out as it is too much hassle.

It's here for a long time now, ppink and if that rescue doesn't do it, they break the law. All my horses are MC'd and passported and I retain ownership of the horses when they go to new home on long-term loan.

http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/farmingsectors/horses/equineidentificationdocumentspassports/

EGAR

BTW, it isn't much *hassle*, vet comes out, takes down the markings of the horse, MC etc total cost: 35 yoyos.

ppink

EGAR wrote: »

BTW, it isn't much *hassle*, vet comes out, takes down the markings of the horse, MC etc total cost: 35 yoyos.

Yes I did think that at the time but said person in charge of rehoming horses made it out to be a major ordeal. I am sure no different to getting markings done for registering for showjumping or whatever. 35 is cheap enough too.

Discodog

EGAR wrote: »

I do the rounds in the N.S.'s around here every year and the level of complete ignorance is staggering.

I know a couple who got two kittens. They fed them Ambrosia creamed rice, & made them sleep in an old kennel - they didn't want the shed messed up. Neither were ever neutered. One disappeared & the other, now a mature tom, roams for miles. He is rarely fed as "he's supposed to hunt". He will not be neutered because "it's just a cat".

His "owners" are both school teachers.

Ireland will probably never make responsible pet ownership a legal requirement so that leaves making it a moral obligation.

10 years ago a man would of boasted over his ability to drink 6 pints & still drive - not any more. The Dogs Trust have been educating for many years & back into the days when they were the Canine Defence League. Maybe if the cat owning teacher's own children were taught about the need for neutering, feeding etc they might go home & persuade their parents.

The DBEB & the changes to dog license fees provided an ideal opportunity to improve licensing but no one was interested.

planetX

I've posted before about overhearing in the waiting room, a vet telling an owner not to neuter her male cat unless he started causing trouble. She had asked would it be a good idea to get him neutered, and that was the vets reply. The education needs to start right at the top:mad:

missmyler

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

If all these people you know have bought dogs purely based on what they look like, I assume you mean they got them from puppy farms Where do you think unsold puppy-farm dogs end up? And why would you continue to associate with these people if you feel so strongly about it? If they were buying children from some poor country would you continue to pop round for coffee and a chat?

I used to work in a dog shelter so am well aware where the dogs come from thank you very much. The majority of these dogs are not pure breds from puppy farms, mostly mongrels who have been abandoned. The sad fact is that the pretty pure breds are always the first to leave the shelter. People I know that have bought puppies have been naive to think that these dogs all come from loving families and this is the one and only litter the mother is going to have. And yes while I do feel strongly about it I am hardly going to disassociate with them because of this. Education is the key...not preaching and condemning

Tranceypoo

MADRA run an education programme, going to school and teaching them about animal welfare, they would cover most of Co Galway

In my few years of being involved in animal welfare (mainly dogs) since I moved here from the UK, I have realised that it doesn't matter how much a person paid for a dog, they will still leave it to roam, not get it neutered/spayed, hand it in because 'we don't really have the time to give it anymore'.

I remember asking a person once (who was selling puppies out of the back of his car at the local 'county fair') - 'will you be getting your dog spayed now, he looked at me and said 'getting her a spade?', not a clue.

I have come across way way too many supposedly intelligent people who are frighteningly ignorant to animal welfare, my own sister in law, a schoolteacher for 20 years, hadn't occured to her to get their farm dogs spayed/neutered (a male and a female), you could almost understand the elderly parents not knowing better but really, I literally took them to the vets and paid myself, after the female had a litter (which I also paid for myself to feed and get vaccinations, donation to local shelter etc). Nearly every day I am shocked by people's ignorance and basic lack of giving a toss.