Vast number of abandoned dogs in Ireland

crally

hi. I am a huge dog lover, i have 2 dogs. there are thousands of dogs in ireland looking for homes, look on dogsindistress, irishanimals, MADRA, inistioge, LAW i could go on and on. Could be please rescue instead of buying pups and feeding the need to breed. the pounds advertise on Facebook and laois pound had German Shepard x labs. stunning looking pups that have 5 days before they are put to sleep as they were surrendered. I have seen springer pups, St Bernards, yorkies, king charles, alsations, pointers on and on. Sorry for the rant but i feel very strongly about this and hope this message gets home to even one person.

Cherry Blossom

Some people may be of a different opinion though. For example a person might start to be enlightened to the fact that there are poor saps out there willing to take on their dogs because they can't really be bothered any more. A person may be able to dump their dog in the pound with a clear conscience because it's likely that a rescue will come along and re-home that badly bred dog with it's myriad of health problems and cover the costs of someone else's ignorance while they go off to collect their new replacement pup, which will most likely end up in the same situation leaving a person who simply had their heart in the right place to deal with the heart-break of looking after a seriously ill animal and the possibility of it having a premature death.

Maybe some people can see the clear benefits of acquiring a dog from a reputable breeder who carries out extensive testing on all dogs they use for breeding and in doing so ensure that their pet will have a long, happy, healthy and pain free life. Perhaps some people are of the opinion that if dogs left in pounds got an automatic death sentence then people would be less likely to abandon them there. Perhaps instead of offering this cop out and being taken for a fool we used the time and effort to push more for legislation that forced people to take responsibility for their animals instead of throwing them away like empty chip bags there would not be such a need for homes for these dogs.

Perhaps some people started off with every intention of re-homing a dog in need but the continual opinion ramming, the sheer volume of ignorance that exists out there, and simply not wanting to be taken for a fool ends up pushing them towards supporting those that put the time, effort and money into producing healthy companions for people with nothing but the interests of the pups they breed, their own dogs and the new owners at heart.

cocker5

Totally agree with OP....

I am sick to death of the ignorant irish attitude of dumping unwanted pets.... a dog if for life as the saying goes...

I too am a massive dog lover... i find it quiet distressing to see all these poor dogs up for adoption... i just look at my guy and think there are 1000's of him dumped in shelters all over the country....

a few of my friends over the past few years have gotten dogs (even though i explined the commitment and advised them not too etc)... then after a few months.. or when a new baby comes along... or when the dog is slighlty hyper... they give the dog up for adoption... seriously what is wrong with people?? it breaks my heart....

1000's of healthy dogs are destroyed each year due to peoples ignorance... i also cannot understand why sooo many people are still breeding dogs... all you have to do is go on donedeal (dreadful site) or buy and sell and see 1000's of new puppies... all in the name of money...

the shelters are stuffed to capacity and yet people are still breeding like mad ... more unwanted puppies... im sure min 30% of them will eventually end up in some form of shelter etc...

People should be made accountable.... they "throw away attitude" to dogs and animals in general in ireland is a disgrace!! :cool:

missmyler

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

Maybe some people can see the clear benefits of acquiring a dog from a reputable breeder who carries out extensive testing on all dogs they use for breeding and in doing so ensure that their pet will have a long, happy, healthy and pain free life.

Unfortunately everyone I know that has bought a dog from a breeder has done so purely because of what the dog looks like... not because they are getting the healthiest pup possible

I have always gotten my dogs and cats from pounds and have never had any health problems with them. You might be leading people into thinking that this is the case

Cherry Blossom

missmyler wrote: »

I have always gotten my dogs and cats from pounds and have never had any health problems with them. You might be leading people into thinking that this is the case

Sorry, but it is the case, define healthy? I have never, ever seen a labrador come from a rescue, pound or back yard breeder that doesn't have orthopaedic problems later in life. I agree completely with what I have said in my first post. however in practice I wouldn't even visit a pound as I know fine well I'd be home with the lot :rolleyes:.

If all these people you know have bought dogs purely based on what they look like, I assume you mean they got them from puppy farms Where do you think unsold puppy-farm dogs end up? And why would you continue to associate with these people if you feel so strongly about it? If they were buying children from some poor country would you continue to pop round for coffee and a chat?

serenacat

Right on OP!! totally agree with your rant, i feel the same way and when I look at those sites am dying to get some dogs! I think people should get their dogs from rescues instead of shelling out hundreds on pure bred

Whispered

I agree 100%, I would not buy a dog with so many needing homes.

however - I think that if someone puts time and effort into finding a good breeder they should be commended for that. It is not realistic to think we can stamp out breeding, but if we can stamp out bad breeding we've come a very long way.

Solair

There really needs to be some kind of proper dog licensing system. The current regime is a joke and simply a minor tax raising racket.

I am pie

My other half and wanto get a dog preferably from a rescue centre. We'll be moving to a larger house in september with a garden, however we won't be buying a house and will not be doing so in the forseeable future. A long term rent is our preference. From what i understand the rescue centres won't place dogs in rented accomodation. I think that this is restrictive and will probably see us buying a schnauzer from anyone the most reputable person who will not insist on us owning our own home. Property prices are still dropping and i don't believe this should preclude us from taking home our schnauzer. My partner has previously owned a schnauzer, we're keen on a bearded addition to our little family !

ISDW

There is absolutely nothing wrong with breeding dogs, as long as it is done properly and ethically. What actually needs to be done here is some kind of system overseeing breeders, with inspections etc to ensure the parents and pups are being looked after properly and with the inspectors having real powers to do something.

People that welcome rescue dogs into their lives and their homes are fantastic, but why is it that these responsible, good, dog lovers should only ever have the opportunity to clean up somebody else's mess? What is wrong about someone being able to go to a reputable breeder and buy a healthy, well adjusted puppy?

I was at the Dog Expo on Sunday, there was a family there that would like a husky, we spoke about the breed, and they were interested in adopting one. Then they mentioned their cats. So I advised them instead to go to a reputable breeder and buy a puppy, so that it could grow up with the cats and there would be less chance of a tragedy (but never leaving the two animals alone even then). I could have rehomed a husky to them, but it could have been at the expense of their cat, how is that fair, one species' life is not more important than another.

Somebody who knows their breed, who researches the dog's lines, who does all the relevent genetic breed health tests and who breeds to improve their breed - those are the people who should be breeding dogs and they should be encouraged. I'm not a huge fan of dog showing, I agree that its good to get judges who know breeds to look over a dog and see if it is a great example, but, people being people, sometimes its not about the dog, its about who's on the end of the lead. Not always, but sometimes. It is kind of my mantra:D but I don't believe that any dog from a working breed should be a Champion unless it has shown itself to be fit for purpose in its line of work as well as in the show ring - dual champions or no champions. Those are the dogs that I think should be bred from.

People that buy dogs just because they like the look of them, wouldn't get a dog from a reputable breeder, because they would have to be interviewed and know enough about the breed for the breeder to trust them with one of their pups. Thats how we get around this massive overpopulation of dogs. Promote responsible breeding, and use legislation to stamp out puppy farms and back yard breeders.

I am not a pure breed snob, I have 11 dogs, 5 are crossbreeds. There are 'types' of dog that work and aren't KC registered anywhere in the world, but they are good at their work. So to me, KC registered isn't the answer, health testing, age appropriate breeding and not overbreeding any dog, dam or sire, thats the answer. The IKC have rules about how many litters a bitch can have, how old they have to be etc, so to get around that, another registration agency gets set up. Papers mean nothing. Compulsory microchipping for all pups, and compulsory registration of the microchips so that all breeders are accountable, and that pup can be followed throughout its life. You will still get the scum that will find a way around it, but you have to make it as difficult as possible for them.

Education is also the key. Get dogs neutered/spayed, explain to the public why its such a good idea, and what the impact of their family pet breeding are. We have to change the country's mindset.

Anybody who is concerned about this, have you ever approached your local schools to go in and do a talk about responsible pet ownership? A lot of the rescues do this, but why not take on a bit of responsiblity as well? The more we educate, the better it will be.

ISDW

I am pie wrote: »

My other half and wanto get a dog preferably from a rescue centre. We'll be moving to a larger house in september with a garden, however we won't be buying a house and will not be doing so in the forseeable future. A long term rent is our preference. From what i understand the rescue centres won't place dogs in rented accomodation. I think that this is restrictive and will probably see us buying a schnauzer from anyone the most reputable person who will not insist on us owning our own home. Property prices are still dropping and i don't believe this should preclude us from taking home our schnauzer. My partner has previously owned a schnauzer, we're keen on a bearded addition to our little family !

Thats not right, the rescue centre would just need a letter from your landlord that you have permission to have a dog in the property.

Toulouse

I am pie wrote: »

My other half and wanto get a dog preferably from a rescue centre. We'll be moving to a larger house in september with a garden, however we won't be buying a house and will not be doing so in the forseeable future. A long term rent is our preference. From what i understand the rescue centres won't place dogs in rented accomodation. I think that this is restrictive and will probably see us buying a schnauzer from anyone the most reputable person who will not insist on us owning our own home. Property prices are still dropping and i don't believe this should preclude us from taking home our schnauzer. My partner has previously owned a schnauzer, we're keen on a bearded addition to our little family !

That's not true, most places only require a letter from your landlord stating that it's okay for a dog to be in the house. As long as your garden is secure enough for a dog you shouldn't have a problem adopting.

I am pie

Toulouse wrote: »

That's not true, most places only require a letter from your landlord stating that it's okay for a dog to be in the house. As long as your garden is secure enough for a dog you shouldn't have a problem adopting.

Brilliant, happy to be corrected on that !

ruben

Some people may be of a different opinion though. For example a person might start to be enlightened to the fact that there are poor saps out there willing to take on their dogs because they can't really be bothered any more. A person may be able to dump their dog in the pound with a clear conscience because it's likely that a rescue will come along and re-home that badly bred dog with it's myriad of health problems and cover the costs of someone else's ignorance while they go off to collect their new replacement pup, which will most likely end up in the same situation leaving a person who simply had their heart in the right place to deal with the heart-break of looking after a seriously ill animal and the possibility of it having a premature death.

Adrenalinjunkie, I can't believe no one has taken you up on this.
The highlighted have to be two of the the most ill informed and ridiculous statements I have read in a long time.

**Vai**

Personally Ive never paid for a dog and I cant see myself ever wanting to pay for one. Why would u when u can get the pure breds from the pound 6 months after xmas? I have had zero health issues with my dogs or foster dogs, and all except my GSD are not purebred in any way. The responsible breeders, who work on a supply and demand basis and make absolutely sure they are producing healthy pups, no one should have an issue with but they are not the only breeders out there. Unfortunately we still live in a country where u are better off with a mongrel so u wont have to pay the overpriced vet a fortune.
I cant really understand the point of this thread, most people who come on here will already know the situation. Surely this would be better placed somewhere else?

**Vai**

ruben wrote: »

Adrenalinjunkie, I can't believe no one has taken you up on this.
The highlighted have to be two of the the most ill informed and ridiculous statements I have read in a long time.

Think u took that up wrong ruben.

willow tree

oh this topic makes my blood boil, such ignorance out there.. i hate to think of animals being treated like waste.. there should be stricter laws for this kind of thing and waaaaaay more neutering..cant see it changing anytime soon

ruben

Quote:
Originally Posted by ruben
Adrenalinjunkie, I can't believe no one has taken you up on this.
The highlighted have to be two of the the most ill informed and ridiculous statements I have read in a long time.

Think u took that up wrong ruben

I took the highlighted to mean
1. the people who took dogs from pounds were "Saps" for taking a dog that someone else abandoned.
2.A rescue dog is badly bred and unhealthy.

I'd be really interesed (and delighted) to see how I took it up wrong

ISDW

ruben wrote: »

I took the highlighted to mean
1. the people who took dogs from pounds were "Saps" for taking a dog that someone else abandoned.
2.A rescue dog is badly bred and unhealthy.

I'd be really interesed (and delighted) to see how I took it up wrong

Unfortunately on point 2, a lot of them are as they come from puppy farmers and bybs who haven't done any health tests. The mother would usually not be looked after very well while in pup, and the pups probably wouldn't get the best start to life either.

Very, very few of the huskies of malamutes that I have taken in and rehomed have been great examples of the breeds. Great dogs yes, but not very well bred. Now as a pet, hopefully they won't be unhealthy, but for the purpose of the breeds that they are, they also won't be the best working dogs as they may be too small, or too tall, have bad conformation etc. Conformation isn't just about dogs looking pretty, its about them being physically fit for purpose.

Tranceypoo

Actually it would be really interesting to know the percentage of dogs in rescues/pounds who are pedigree versus the cross breed mutts, both mine (mutts) are shelter dogs, the newest one seems to be in great health (touch wood) the oldest one has a dodgy leg but that's from an accident and nothing to do with being a rescue and he suffers from bouts of depression (but who knows where that one came from), otherwise he's happy out as well!!

Cherry Blossom

**Vai** wrote: »

Think u took that up wrong ruben.

This

Please read the post again Ruben. I personally know of two people completely independant of each other who, 1 of whom has dumped a dog in a certain pound, the other a bitch complete with litter of pups. Both had absolutely no hesitation in doing so and 1 used the actual phrase 'some other poor sap' will give 'im a good home sure :rolleyes:. This might have something to do with the fact that due to a certain rescue sending dogs in there to do their 5 days before sending them on their way the pounds published figures on their 'pts' rate have halved since the last statistics were published. This has actually encouraged people who may have tried other avenues first to dump their dogs in the pound without a second thought and in reality the numbers are actually increasing as a direct result of this. Remember the saying - there are 3 kinds of lies -: lies, damned lies and statistics.

I wasn't really at my most alert at the time of my first post and wasn't really in the mood for over-elaborating. I think the other issue you had with my post has already been elaborated on enough by ISDW.

suziwalsh

Well I would never pay money for a dog, I strongly believe that until the numbers of dogs in Ireland drops to a manageable level (where no abandoned dogs need to be PTS) that there are no responsible breeders. Unless a breeder can bring a put into the world and guarantee that that pup will be homed to a responsible family who won't breed that pup and will look after that dog for the entire of his/her life then they should not be breeding.

I do not think that the threath that your dog will be PTS puts anyone off surrendering their dog into a pound. In fact having witnessed it, the PTS is not an issue for any of them its the fee involved which is why many people just dump their dogs on the streets etc. So the excuse of buying a dog instead of rescue so as not to promote an easy escape for people to give their dog up is nonsense.

Discouraging people from buying dogs and educating people on how to choose the right dog from the right place is more important. So many people just buy a dog with little thought. I was even talking to a lady today who wanted to buy a CKC but didnt want to pay the price for a health checked litter regardless of what I said about future health problems. She was happy to take the risk for a cheaper pup. She cared only what the dog looked like, how young it was and that it was a bargain price.

I also do not think that rescue dogs are the poorly bred dogs that are abandoned in fact my beagle millie came from louth pound with papers, she was bred by the now secretary of the breed from the IKC. So a "reputable" breeder....but I got her from rescue. Also I know some of the best checked and bred dogs in Ireland....however many many pups end up with health problems.

I think that everyone has a responsibility to the animal welfare problems in Ireland just like we have to all sort out our financial problems whether we caused them or not. I completely agree with the OP that rescue is the way forward to solving our dog problem.

And for anyone looking for a rescue I currently know of a shih-tzu pup, a chihuahua, a spaniel, a labrador, a pug x cavalier among others looking for a home right now.

Themadhouse

IMO the problem is the lack of education. There is still a huge percentage of people that do not want to/feel the need to neuter and then we have the whole "ah its only fair to give her a litter before we get her fixed".
I think a program should be introduced into the schools. Educate the kids and they might change the view of parents/ grandparents.
Breeding pedigree puppies needs to regulated here. There are some fantastic breeders who do so for the love of their chosen breed and produce happy healthy puppies. Unfortunately a lot of people will just see the price tag on the puppy from a reputable breeder and they will go for the cheaper option because a; its cheaper, b; i can have it now, c;they didnt ask me any questions like the more expensive breeder asked.
I have no issues with people buying pedigree pups as long as they understand the breed, know what health problems the breeder should be keeping from its breeding stock, understanding that they might have to wait for the right pup.

Of course the other problem is the racing industry and the abandoned greys that end up in pounds or rescues.
We really should be ashamed of ourselves that we think dogs are just items that can be thrown away when they just dont suit us anymore.
it always surprises me that people dont honestly realise that a dog that is surrenderd into apound does not have any time, that a stray has 5 days and that it.

There are so many factors involved with dogs ending up in rescue/pound but it's not all breeders fault. We cant tar them all with the same brush, some are very reputable and responsible.
I personally have a rescue dog and waited to find the right one. If i was interested in a pedigree dog i would do the same, wait for the right one.

suziwalsh

Themadhouse wrote: »

I think a program should be introduced into the schools. Educate the kids and they might change the view of parents/ grandparents.

There is already a program its run by Dogs Trust and is excellent with loads of free material and games on educating children on safety with dogs and being a good dog owner. It is brilliant and completely free and has been running for the last 6 years. They have visited tens of thousands of children.

Including their low cost neutering (€20) I have to hand it to them they have neutered close to 60,000 (could be more now) dogs to date in Ireand. But yet the problem doesn't seem to be improving. I would love to see more stringent breeding regulations and some sort of certification from the IKC or otherwise for approved breeders. That would have to have a visit and conform to so many regulations. I would like to see that then be something that every dog owner looks for when buying a dog.

Irresponsible people cause the problem....but I don't have the solution for that.

ISDW

suziwalsh wrote: »

There is already a program its run by Dogs Trust and is excellent with loads of free material and games on educating children on safety with dogs and being a good dog owner. It is brilliant and completely free and has been running for the last 6 years. They have visited tens of thousands of children.

Including their low cost neutering (€20) I have to hand it to them they have neutered close to 60,000 (could be more now) dogs to date in Ireand. But yet the problem doesn't seem to be improving. I would love to see more stringent breeding regulations and some sort of certification from the IKC or otherwise for approved breeders. That would have to have a visit and conform to so many regulations. I would like to see that then be something that every dog owner looks for when buying a dog.

Irresponsible people cause the problem....but I don't have the solution for that.

The DT neutering scheme is fantastic, and I shudder to think where we'd be now without that. But again, people know its there, so don't take responsiblity for their animals - "ah sure, its only €20 with a voucher, I'm not eligible, but I'll use someone else's name". The stories I have heard about people wanting to get these vouchers when they can afford to get their pets neutered or spayed is just ridiculous.

Education is definitely the key, when I moved back to Ireland 4 years ago I couldn't believe the amount of dogs let out to wander by themselves every day. People just don't seem to realise how special these animals are, and what a privilege it is to own one. It is seen as a right to 'own' a dog, its not, its an honour and people should respect them.

This is a good thread, most people on here will agree to a certain extent, but its good to have an open discussion on it.

Cherry Blossom

suziwalsh wrote: »

There is already a program its run by Dogs Trust and is excellent with loads of free material and games on educating children on safety with dogs and being a good dog owner. It is brilliant and completely free and has been running for the last 6 years. They have visited tens of thousands of children.

Great, and well done to them, however there are 26 counties in the Republic of Ireland, not 1! Enforcement of the legislation that already exists nationwide is needed, new legislation is needed and a nationwide standardised education program is needed otherwise the problem is never going to go way. A good start would be a heafty tax on exporting dogs. My local puppy farm exports 8,000 pups every year to the UK, how long would he last if he had to pay a tax of €200 a pup?

bryaner

I cant see a problem with people paying for a type of breed they want, of course my problem would people paying for a dog they think they want and suddenly find that the dog is cramping their style and of to the shelter.

My mate works in Tara Mines and goes on many trips to Sweden, don't know how the conversation came about one day but he said that the Swedes are totally disgusted with the way the Irish treat their dogs.

Was there not a post up here recently about a woman and her daughter insisting on a Husky just so they could look the part, and they weren't worried about the amount of walking and care this breed needed.

These people need to be put in the shelter not the poor dogs..:mad:

suziwalsh

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

Great, and well done to them, however there are 26 counties in the Republic of Ireland, not 1! Enforcement of the legislation that already exists nationwide is needed, new legislation is needed and a nationwide standardised education program is needed otherwise the problem is never going to go way. A good start would be a heafty tax on exporting dogs. My local puppy farm exports 8,000 pups every year to the UK, how long would he last if he had to pay a tax of €200 a pup?

The dogs trust scheme IS nationwide and this year they have appointed an extra educator to be situated full time in Munster as well as Leinster....who both travel. The neutering program is nationwide also. Both have been running for 6 years or so.

Totally agree with an enforcement system with penalities!!! the sooner the better!!!

A tax for exporting dogs....only issue would be that so many rescues export dogs to the UK at a huge cost already in order to cope with the numbers of abandoned dogs in Ireland....so not sure on that one. But if it could just be for commercial exporters...yes definately

Cherry Blossom

There has never been any form of animal welfare education in any school that I know of anywhere remotely near me, so no, nationwide means in every single school in the country, not just those that are easy to travel to . That's great if something like this has started, can't wait for them to come to Donegal where fences are an urban myth, vaccinations are considered a money racket and you get laughed out of the place for suggesting that dogs need social interaction. :rolleyes:

Themadhouse

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

A good start would be a heafty tax on exporting dogs. My local puppy farm exports 8,000 pups every year to the UK, how long would he last if he had to pay a tax of €200 a pup?

But what about the genuine breeder? It s not fair to tag them with a tax like this especially if they have healthy lines that are being brought to another country to keep inbreeding for example out of other breeding programs.
That local BYB needs to be stopped, his breeding stock checked for inhumane conditions etc and then he should be charged or jailed.
We need to make puppy farming something to be embarrassed about. at the momet the pupy farmers arent, that needs to be changed.

Cherry Blossom

suziwalsh wrote: »

A tax for exporting dogs....only issue would be that so many rescues export dogs to the UK at a huge cost already in order to cope with the numbers of abandoned dogs in Ireland....so not sure on that one. But if it could just be for commercial exporters...yes definately

Rescues would have no need to export dogs to the UK if the major puppy farms are put out of business. Someone posted here yesterday that breed specific rescue for Golden Retrievers refuses to rehome in Ireland, I find that absolutely ridiculous, there are people who want to give a home to golden retriever and the organisation I would imagine would be dealing with the bulk of them would rather send them on to the destination that was intended for them in the first place, while people here source them from where exactly if they can't find one in a rescue?? They might find a reputable breeder, they might bring one in from the UK or they might help fund some of those GR rescue is getting all these dogs from. I find this thinking completely insane and all it does is add weight to idiotic nonscence being spouted by certain individuals who are CEO's of certain animal welfare organisations. :rolleyes:

suziwalsh

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

There has never been any form of animal welfare education in any school that I know of anywhere remotely near me, so no, nationwide means in every single school in the country, not just those that are easy to travel to . That's great if something like this has started, can't wait for them to come to Donegal where fences are an urban myth, vaccinations are considered a money racket and you get laughed out of the place for suggesting that dogs need social interaction. :rolleyes:

Schools have to call them and book appointments....they can't just turn up!

I do however know there is a huge waiting list as it usually takes a few days to get to talk to every class in a school but if you do have friends who are teachers get them to ring. Also I know that a good few local rescues do school talks, not as fancy but a talk none the less. I do a good few but only in Dublin/Meath/Kildare as my petrol buget is not huge being a self funded volunteer

I do think that there is a rescue in Donegal that does talks as I know dogs trust will send out literature etc to rescues willing to do talks. All their stuff for kids is great

suziwalsh

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

Rescues would have no need to export dogs to the UK if the major puppy farms are put out of business. Someone posted here yesterday that breed specific rescue for Golden Retrievers refuses to rehome in Ireland, I find that absolutely ridiculous, there are people who want to give a home to golden retriever and the organisation I would imagine would be dealing with the bulk of them would rather send them on to the destination that was intended for them in the first place, while people here source them from where exactly if they can't find one in a rescue?? They might find a reputable breeder, they might bring one in from the UK or they might help fund some of those GR rescue is getting all these dogs from. I find this thinking completely insane and all it does is add weight to idiotic nonscence being spouted by certain individuals who are CEO's of certain animal welfare organisations. :rolleyes:

I do agree that dogs should be homed here first....but then again it depends on the quality of the home. I think that GR rescue as far as I know cannot home here at the moment due to their representative in Ireland being very unwell and with no one to over see homing or vet fees etc it makes it very difficult as they are a UK rescue and not an Irish one so don't have the resources here. There are also many rescues who do not rehome to the UK or send dogs abroad.

I don't think that the puppy farmers are the only issue and I still think there would be dogs abandoned in pounds, I actually think its feeling that a dogs is disposable for many people in this country. As I said before my dog was not from a puppy farm, actually neither are the second came from the pound through a home that never asked their landlords permission to have a dog. He originally came from a farm (not a puppy farm) who felt that neutering affected how his dogs worked. Which brings me to another point there are huge numbers of collies abandoned in shelters, that are certainly non products of puppy farms but the farming lifestyle. I have helped rehome thousands of dogs and although obviously i detest puppy farms above all else I don't think they are the only issue.

Shanao

Between Bybs, Puppy farmers, Rescues turned hoarders, Chuggers, people who dont research their breed, dog fighters, designer dog breeders, people who believe in a bitch needing at least one litter and those who want to get something because its 'cute', I think its pretty easy to see why things have gotten so bad. As ISDW said, people somehow think its a right to own an animal, and its going to be a long time before that attitude changes unfortunately.
I recently met a woman who has a labrador who had an accidental two years ago by a collie and, in her words, "the pups were so gorgeous that we decided to breed them with each other again". I'm sick of attitudes like this, and if i meet one more person with a cavachon, or a yorkidoodle or ****tichon or whatever the hell they're calling them now, I think I really will just give up on hope for this country.

Oh, and the very best thing i heard lately: "The breeder was so nice, he met us halfway so we wouldn't have to travel the whole distance." This from someone who has a cav puppy who's probably the most nervous puppy I've ever met and is already showing serious behavioural problems.

Education and legislation seem to be what we need here, but I cant see one working without the other.

Sorry for ranting, but the animal welfare situation in this country is pretty much driving me insane.

pokertalk

there is one way to cut out puppy farming and bgbs . make it illegal to buy any dog that would deffo filter out the people who are only in it for the money and the people who do it for the love of their breed would carry on breeding responsilby ahhhhhhhh yes what a perfect world that would be:D

suziwalsh

pokertalk wrote: »

there is one way to cut out puppy farming and bgbs . make it illegal to buy any dog that would deffo filter out the people who are only in it for the money and the people who do it for the love of their breed would carry on breeding responsilby ahhhhhhhh yes what a perfect world that would be:D

Ha ha ha very true! I would like in order to get a dog licence you have to sit through a responsible dog ownership talk.....and for it to be enforced. You must show proof of dog licence before purchase etc. Think in some european countries that is in place.

Themadhouse

pokertalk wrote: »

there is one way to cut out puppy farming and bgbs . make it illegal to buy any dog that would deffo filter out the people who are only in it for the money and the people who do it for the love of their breed would carry on breeding responsilby ahhhhhhhh yes what a perfect world that would be:D

:rolleyes:

mystika121

I think that more needs to be done to match people who want a specific breed with dogs of that breed that need rehoming.

About five years ago I was looking to rehome an Yorkie/Yorkie X. I left my contact details on the voice mail of two rescues and received no call back. I spoke to a person in a third rescue and explained that my Yorkie had died several months ago and I felt ready to adopt another dog. I only had room for a small dog to live in the house and as I had a rescue Yorkie previously I would be keen for another one. The person listened to my story and then said if I wanted a particular breed 'get the Buy and Sell'. I was so shocked!

Anyway, I put this down to catching the person on a bad day. However, I recently met a lady I used to work with. She mentioned she was looking for a Cocker Spaniel as a companion for her older dog who is also a Cocker Spaniel. I suggested she phone a rescue and see if they have any or can put her in touch with a breed specific rescue. She said 'Oh I tried that and they suggested I contact a Breeder'

Now I can only imagine how busy rescue centres are these days and I wouldn't expect them to go searching for a dog for this lady but to suggest she contact a Breeder just makes no sense to me. A Corker Spaniel and a Yorkie are by know means rare breeds and I'm sure there are plenty of both in rescues up and down the country.

I just worry that perhaps people who are trying to do the right thing and adopt a dog, and then get that advice, end up as customers of less than ideal breeders.

suziwalsh

mystika121 wrote: »

I think that more needs to be done to match people who want a specific breed with dogs of that breed that need rehoming.

About five years ago I was looking to rehome an Yorkie/Yorkie X. I left my contact details on the voice mail of two rescues and received no call back. I spoke to a person in a third rescue and explained that my Yorkie had died several months ago and I felt ready to adopt another dog. I only had room for a small dog to live in the house and as I had a rescue Yorkie previously I would be keen for another one. The person listened to my story and then said if I wanted a particular breed 'get the Buy and Sell'. I was so shocked!

Anyway, I put this down to catching the person on a bad day. However, I recently met a lady I used to work with. She mentioned she was looking for a Cocker Spaniel as a companion for her older dog who is also a Cocker Spaniel. I suggested she phone a rescue and see if they have any or can put her in touch with a breed specific rescue. She said 'Oh I tried that and they suggested I contact a Breeder'

Now I can only imagine how busy rescue centres are these days and I wouldn't expect them to go searching for a dog for this lady but to suggest she contact a Breeder just makes no sense to me. A Corker Spaniel and a Yorkie are by know means rare breeds and I'm sure there are plenty of both in rescues up and down the country.

I just worry that perhaps people who are trying to do the right thing and adopt a dog, and then get that advice, end up as customers of less than ideal breeders.

Absolutely dreadful and disgraceful on part of the rescue. Would love to know who they were! If someone asked me for a particular breed I go to the ends of the earth to find one. Search through every organisation and pound. Its rare that you dont find what youre looking for it just depends on the time frame. But I am shocked and horrified that a memember of a rescue would say get a dog from a breeder !!! Shameful :mad:

mystika121

Thanks suziwalsh, I am glad to say I kept phoning rescues and I was given the details of a person who had to surrender a Yorkie and was waiting for a place in a shelter.

The lady I used to work with said that her daughter bought her a Cocker Spaniel.

crally

Hi I did notice the comments but I am not interested in getting into a banter with someone over what they 'think', it is a was of time and energy:)

crally

hi i am all up for rescues but it is very easy to open a rescue. There was a case of dog down around Kerry, the old man went into hospital and left his dog into a 'shelter' and was paying the woman to take care of the dog. a friend of mine took the dog and rehomed him, he was in a terrible state, with urine staining all down his legs etc. The dog is now with a great family but like anything else you will have to make sure it is a good rescue!

ppink

ISDW wrote: »

Unfortunately on point 2, a lot of them are as they come from puppy farmers and bybs who haven't done any health tests. The mother would usually not be looked after very well while in pup, and the pups probably wouldn't get the best start to life either.

Very, very few of the huskies of malamutes that I have taken in and rehomed have been great examples of the breeds. Great dogs yes, but not very well bred. Now as a pet, hopefully they won't be unhealthy, but for the purpose of the breeds that they are, they also won't be the best working dogs as they may be too small, or too tall, have bad conformation etc. Conformation isn't just about dogs looking pretty, its about them being physically fit for purpose.

Is this not because there are simply more of them? I mean there is no "reputable" breeder going to match the puppy farmers for output, therefore there are just simply more of them being bred.

What do reputable breeders do with dogs that dont meet the criteria? I mean out of a litter you will not get every dog who will be a good example of the breed, so where do they go?........sold on and possibly bred again?
By criteria and good example of the breed are we back to the show dogs again, which always makes me question if the KC know what they are doing anyway.......but that is just from my experiences with my dogs.

ISDW

crally wrote: »

Hi I did notice the comments but I am not interested in getting into a banter with someone over what they 'think', it is a was of time and energy:)

Sorry, I don't understand, you started a thread on a discussion forum, are you saying you aren't willing to discuss things? Its your way or the highway, and nobody else's opinion is valid? Thats surely not what you're saying

crally wrote: »

hi i am all up for rescues but it is very easy to open a rescue. There was a case of dog down around Kerry, the old man went into hospital and left his dog into a 'shelter' and was paying the woman to take care of the dog. a friend of mine took the dog and rehomed him, he was in a terrible state, with urine staining all down his legs etc. The dog is now with a great family but like anything else you will have to make sure it is a good rescue!

You're confusing me, yes there are rescues that aren't the best out there, but in your first post you are pushing rehoming from a pound. Pounds aren't great, they're merely a place that strays/surrenders go, I don't know any pound in Ireland that does homevisits, follow ups etc, so should people not take dogs from there either? Maybe I'm not fully awake yet, but I'm just confused by your posts.

ppink

crally wrote: »

Hi I did notice the comments but I am not interested in getting into a banter with someone over what they 'think', it is a was of time and energy:)

what did you start the thread for so?

ISDW

ppink wrote: »

Is this not because there are simply more of them? I mean there is no "reputable" breeder going to match the puppy farmers for output, therefore there are just simply more of them being bred.

What do reputable breeders do with dogs that dont meet the criteria? I mean out of a litter you will not get every dog who will be a good example of the breed, so where do they go?........sold on and possibly bred again?
By criteria and good example of the breed are we back to the show dogs again, which always makes me question if the KC know what they are doing anyway.......but that is just from my experiences with my dogs.

I think thats where the definition of reputable breeder may differ between people. In my opinion, a reputable breeder only breeds for themselves anyway, not to supply a market, obviously they won't keep an entire litter, so then they have pups available. But, like with a good welfare organisation, they have a puppy contract and any dog that has to be rehomed from an owner has to go back to the breeder. They will then either keep it, or rehome it, preferably spayed/neutered if not used for showing.

Any breeder that doesn't take back unwanted dogs is not a reputable breeder, thats why when people ask for advice on here about breeding their dogs, that point comes up, can you take back all of the puppies that you breed for their entire lives?

As for selling pups and them being used for breeding, the papers have endorsements on, so that any progeny cannot be registered. These endorsements will only be lifted if the the breeder is satisfied that the dog is a great example of the breed, and that the owner knows what they are doing regarding breeding. Again, like a good welfare organisation, breeders such as this will do homevisits, interview prospective owners etc, so they should know that the pups are going to good homes. Unfortunately, people being people, sometimes they will slip through the net and fool the breeder, which must be heartbreaking, thinking your pup is going to a great home, then finding out its not the case.

Its really not that difficult to do, but unfortunately very few breeders do it - even those that are considered reputable by a lot of dog people. Unless the criteria I have set out above are matched, then personally I don't consider anybody to be a reputable breeder.

Cherry Blossom

ppink wrote: »

what did you start the thread for so?

For the purpose of opinion ramming perhaps?

ppink

ISDW wrote: »

I think thats where the definition of reputable breeder may differ between people. In my opinion, a reputable breeder only breeds for themselves anyway, not to supply a market, obviously they won't keep an entire litter, so then they have pups available. But, like with a good welfare organisation, they have a puppy contract and any dog that has to be rehomed from an owner has to go back to the breeder. They will then either keep it, or rehome it, preferably spayed/neutered if not used for showing.

Any breeder that doesn't take back unwanted dogs is not a reputable breeder, thats why when people ask for advice on here about breeding their dogs, that point comes up, can you take back all of the puppies that you breed for their entire lives?

As for selling pups and them being used for breeding, the papers have endorsements on, so that any progeny cannot be registered. These endorsements will only be lifted if the the breeder is satisfied that the dog is a great example of the breed, and that the owner knows what they are doing regarding breeding. Again, like a good welfare organisation, breeders such as this will do homevisits, interview prospective owners etc, so they should know that the pups are going to good homes. Unfortunately, people being people, sometimes they will slip through the net and fool the breeder, which must be heartbreaking, thinking your pup is going to a great home, then finding out its not the case.

Its really not that difficult to do, but unfortunately very few breeders do it - even those that are considered reputable by a lot of dog people. Unless the criteria I have set out above are matched, then personally I don't consider anybody to be a reputable breeder.

thats actually quite interesting. I have never come across anyone that does it and it seems like a good plan. Does the breeder always get the right to decide unanimously though.....or should any prospective breeding animals have to be health screened.

I always thought myself that 2 things would help

1. if dog licences were a substantial charge

2. if dogs cost a lot more that they do

I think if people were spending substantial money on a dog then they would be more inclined to research it.....like most people do with cars or bicycles or even mobile phones! usually more thought and reasearch goes intot he purchase of these items!

ISDW

ppink wrote: »

thats actually quite interesting. I have never come across anyone that does it and it seems like a good plan. Does the breeder always get the right to decide unanimously though.....or should any prospective breeding animals have to be health screened.

I always thought myself that 2 things would help

1. if dog licences were a substantial charge

2. if dogs cost a lot more that they do

I think if people were spending substantial money on a dog then they would be more inclined to research it.....like most people do with cars or bicycles or even mobile phones! usually more thought and reasearch goes intot he purchase of these items!

Thats the problem, very few breeders actually do it, even those that have a reputation as being reputable. It doesn't matter how many champions your dog has in its pedigree, I don't think that means they should be bred willy-nilly. It is easy to do though, if you only breed 1 litter every couple of years, you would have a reputation and have a waiting list of people for your pups. However, if you breed 2/3 litters a year, much harder to do. Sorry, yes, the breeder would obviously insist on the dog having all health tests done before lifting endorsements.

There are some breeders on this island like that, but they are very few and far between. But, it is only people like that I think that should be breeding.

I don't know if I necessarily agree with you about the price, during the boom years people were paying a lot of money for pedigree dogs, but they were still ending up in pounds and rescues. Maybe now that money is an issue for more people, things will change.

To borrow from Tony Blair though, I think its only Education, Education, Education that is going to change things.:)

Wrighty82

There's a great campaign being run at the moment to donate tins of dogfood to groups like MADRA, ASH, DSPCA, Pauline's Animal Rescue and many others:

http://www.facebook.com/BuyandSell.ie

ISDW

Wrighty82 wrote: »

There's a great campaign being run at the moment to donate tins of dogfood to groups like MADRA, ASH, DSPCA, Pauline's Animal Rescue and many others:

http://www.facebook.com/BuyandSell.ie

On a site that helps to fuel the problem by selling animals - ironic or what:rolleyes: