Garda wearing tactical vest in Slane Castle

North Face

I have protected this members identity by editing this picture. Seen this picture on the internet and was wondering if the vest is on trial or more likely a private purchase.

I am aware that the Airport Police Service in Dublin wear a similar Tactical Vest since early 2007 but didnt know Gardai where also now wearing them (with the exception of ERU/RSU etc..)

hairy sailor

not sure but think it's a stab vest which are pretty common now

Zambia

Does anyone have Trinny and Susannahs number handy?

As the uniform is, I think the navy stab vest with Garda written on it is a good look for our boys in blue.

I do think a radical overhaul of the uniform is needed though, to be more UK-ish. Have never seen a Garda wearing a jacket like the above (with aforementioned exceptions).

Bosh

Dog handlers and some other support services have them. They are not on general issue.

Bosh

Bosh wrote: »

Dog handlers and some other support services have them. They are not on general issue.

Thank god. They look shít.

CaseyRyback

^ Looks rubbish.

If AGS is looking for a replacement, Arktis do good kit:

CaseyRyback

CaseyRyback wrote: »

^ Looks rubbish.

If AGS is looking for a replacement, Arktis do good kit:

The problem with them if they ever get introduced here is that they will have to be worn over the hi-viz jackets which somebody thinks it's a good idea to have us wearing all day. Now, if they were to give us hi-viz kits then that may look better.

Zambia

foreign wrote: »

The problem with them if they ever get introduced here is that they will have to be worn over the hi-viz jackets which somebody thinks it's a good idea to have us wearing all day. Now, if they were to give us hi-viz kits then that may look better.

Ah that has been thought of vest come with Hi Vis Covers

Zambia

Zambia wrote: »

Ah that has been thought of vest come with Hi Vis Covers

Thats a stab vest though, not an equipment rig.

Zambia

My bad.

CaseyRyback

BrianD

KKV wrote:

I do think a radical overhaul of the uniform is needed though, to be more UK-ish. Have never seen a Garda wearing a jacket like the above (with aforementioned exceptions).

I would wholeheartedly agree. Good uniform design helps to project authority. The current AGS uniform and accessories is more 'Postman' than 'Policeman'. It doesn't project authority.

In my view, the addition of the stab proof vests immediately enhanced the appearance of AGS members when on the streets. The worst element of the uniform is that hi-viz jacket (i'm sure it's practical).

BrianD

BrianD wrote: »

I would wholeheartedly agree. Good uniform design helps to project authority. The current AGS uniform and accessories is more 'Postman' than 'Policeman'. It doesn't project authority.

In my view, the addition of the stab proof vests immediately enhanced the appearance of AGS members when on the streets. The worst element of the uniform is that hi-viz jacket (i'm sure it's practical).

I would be more inclined to say the person wearing the uniform projects the authority.

And as for the Hi-Viz, it's not really practical.

Bosh

The powers that be like the Hi-viz as it gives the impression that there are actually feet on the street, notwithstanding that it is impractical, uncomfortable and gives the majority of wearers the profile of a sack of spuds

God be with the days that members were issued with a roll of material, went to a tailor and had a bespoke uniform made.

Showing my age now!!! :eek:

Delancey

When did that practice cease - must have meant for very well turned-out Guards ?

Bosh

Around '86-87....

Oh God, where's me Complan

It was the heavy 'Bulls Wool' with the silver buttons, dated and impractical even then, but it look well because it was tailored to fit and was made from good quality hard wearing cloth.

sdanseo

If good-looking uniforms project authority then tac vests should never be considered. I think they look ridiculous. I know they help spread the load but words can't express how silly and untidy I think they appear.

The current Garda Uniform, without hi-vis, looks really well I think, the patrol jacket needs changing as it's the one thing that looks a bit cheap.

Gardaí in general that I see wear their duty belt hugely untidily when they have the Hi-vis on. It should be turned up at waist level or re-issued as a bomber-style jacket...having a highvis flapping down to the knees wiht half the gear ****ed on over it and half worn under it just looks plain sloppy. All the gear should then be on display on the belt outside the jacket...again, projecting authority.

Hi-vis should also be completely abandoned except for public order duties during the day. It's not exactly hard to identify a guard in borad daylight with the blue shirt, stab vest and hat.

North Face

CaseyRyback wrote: »

^ Looks rubbish.

If AGS is looking for a replacement, Arktis do good kit:

Thats the same vest Airport Police are issued in Dublin if I remember correctly.. Found these pics on the interweb pity jedwards in them!

Blurred pics not to compromise OPSEC

CaseyRyback

Thanks for the pics. I hadn't realised the Joeys had completely revamped their uniform. Interesting direction they've taken adopting a UK pattern uniform. I'm led to believe they've had some form of co-operation with British Transport Police?

BrianD

Bosh wrote: »

The powers that be like the Hi-viz as it gives the impression that there are actually feet on the street, notwithstanding that it is impractical, uncomfortable and gives the majority of wearers the profile of a sack of spuds

I would agree. Would other forces wear hi-viz routinely? I know that there's no "trademark" on it but I have seen other people wear very similar hi-viz coats to AGS. It really should be only used for very specific duties.

I would be more inclined to say the person wearing the uniform projects the authority.

Could not disagree more. The uniform is for a purpose - to differentiate and make a statement. What you wear projects authority and it applies across all walks of life.

I think that styling of the uniforms that they use for the cycle cops (pedal and motorised) and other specialist "divisions" are better designed and project and more authoritive image.

On the other hand, the tac vests are taking the more military or paramilitary approach and I think there's a balance to be struck.

MagicSean

The bicycle jacket is quite useful. Doubles as a stab vest too so it isn't as warm and stuffy. It also allows for the sleeves to be removed for the warm days. And it comes with combats, and I think the lower leg can be detached for cycling.

Muas Tenek

Bosh wrote: »

Around '86-87....

Oh God, where's me Complan

It was the heavy 'Bulls Wool' with the silver buttons, dated and impractical even then, but it look well because it was tailored to fit and was made from good quality hard wearing cloth.

Ha ha I remember that guy in Capel Street
OH oh showing my age too any of that Complan left.

scooby2791

It just doesn't look right over such a large hi-vis jacket. They need something neater. Those oversized jackets seem very unpractical at times.

Manic Moran

It is important to note that just because you are wearing a vest, it is not mandatory for it to be the outermost garment if its primary purpose is protection. Which, I would have thought to be the point: Surely police cannot be so heavily equipped that they need the extra real estate that won't fit on a duty belt? I would routinely wear a jacket over by body armour, it just made me look a little bulkier (and I like to think meaner). Stab plates are routinely worn by USian cops under short sleeve shirts.

NTM

Rialtas

BrianD wrote: »

I would agree. Would other forces wear hi-viz routinely? I know that there's no "trademark" on it but I have seen other people wear very similar hi-viz coats to AGS. It really should be only used for very specific duties.



Could not disagree more. The uniform is for a purpose - to differentiate and make a statement. What you wear projects authority and it applies across all walks of life.

I think that styling of the uniforms that they use for the cycle cops (pedal and motorised) and other specialist "divisions" are better designed and project and more authoritive image.

On the other hand, the tac vests are taking the more military or paramilitary approach and I think there's a balance to be struck.

There's more to AGS than public order and "specialist" roles. The current uniform conveys the appropriate amount of authority without alienating anyone. Aspects of the uniform can be tweaked to make it more practical, but the general style of blue shirt and navy pants should remain.

Anyway, combats and a polo shirt is hardly smart looking. I'd much prefer to deal with a Garda in a conventional uniform rather than someone kitted out in specialist gear. Not everyone the Gardai deal with on a daily basis is out to do damage.

BrianD

Rialtas wrote: »

There's more to AGS than public order and "specialist" roles. The current uniform conveys the appropriate amount of authority without alienating anyone. Aspects of the uniform can be tweaked to make it more practical, but the general style of blue shirt and navy pants should remain.

Anyway, combats and a polo shirt is hardly smart looking. I'd much prefer to deal with a Garda in a conventional uniform rather than someone kitted out in specialist gear. Not everyone the Gardai deal with on a daily basis is out to do damage.

I am aware of that and I wouldn't advocate going down the "military style" route. It's just that some of the newer uniforms for the specialist convey a more police-like and authoritive look.

When I'm abroad the police presence is more comanding both in appearance and presence. Certainly, a uniform doesn't make crime and the scumbags vanish but there's a lot of conveyed by it that I don't think that should be underestimated. The standard AGS uniform, in my view, lacks that authority - more postman than policeman in style as I stated earlier

MagicSean

Manic Moran wrote: »

It is important to note that just because you are wearing a vest, it is not mandatory for it to be the outermost garment if its primary purpose is protection. Which, I would have thought to be the point: Surely police cannot be so heavily equipped that they need the extra real estate that won't fit on a duty belt? I would routinely wear a jacket over by body armour, it just made me look a little bulkier (and I like to think meaner). Stab plates are routinely worn by USian cops under short sleeve shirts.

NTM

I find things easier and less awkward when attached to the vest than when they are attached to your waist.

Locust

I agree there has to be a balance between practical and smart. The balance is there by wearing the right clothes for the right jobs.

-- Practical gear for practical work - i.e. public order drunks/fights, searches of premises, night work (a night shift uniform? Personally when i was on the regular i hated wearing reflective gear when trying to sneak up on criminals! And those blue shirts stick out like a sore thumb in green foilage!). A tactical vest would go a long way and the weight is better distributed and doesn't dig into you when your sitting!

-- Smarter apparel for smarter duties - i.e. station duties (shirt & tie), court, parades/ceremonies... (not much need for vest or tactical pants/vest in station)

The uniform can definitely enhance or subtract authority, its important to have something that 'looks' the part. The stab vest did a lot for the look, it portrays that image of a person who puts himself in harms way, a guardian if you like. At the same time though, like anything if the person wearing it is acting like an eejit or leaning agains a wall with his hands in his pockets it doesn't help much.

999nobody

Locust wrote: »

I agree there has to be a balance between practical and smart. The balance is there by wearing the right clothes for the right jobs.

-- Practical gear for practical work - i.e. public order drunks/fights, searches of premises, night work (a night shift uniform? Personally when i was on the regular i hated wearing reflective gear when trying to sneak up on criminals! And those blue shirts stick out like a sore thumb in green foilage!). A tactical vest would go a long way and the weight is better distributed and doesn't dig into you when your sitting!

-- Smarter apparel for smarter duties - i.e. station duties (shirt & tie), court, parades/ceremonies... (not much need for vest or tactical pants/vest in station)

The uniform can definitely enhance or subtract authority, its important to have something that 'looks' the part. The stab vest did a lot for the look, it portrays that image of a person who puts himself in harms way, a guardian if you like. At the same time though, like anything if the person wearing it is acting like an eejit or leaning agains a wall with his hands in his pockets it doesn't help much.

Gardai don't get attacked in the station or court ????

999nobody

999nobody wrote: »

Gardai don't get attacked in the station or court ????

How often do you see a garda in court wearing the battle dress? Or at the public counter for that matter.

In my opinion, the current uniform should be kept for court / station duties and the combats & polo shirt for patrolling.

Manic Moran

How often do you see a garda in court wearing the battle dress? Or at the public counter for that matter.

In my opinion, the current uniform should be kept for court / station duties and the combats & polo shirt for patrolling.

And here's me thinking the Gardai were trying to promote a non-violent and approachable image, part of the reason they won't carry sidearms. Well, if you must bring a stick to a battle...

NTM

Locust

999nobody wrote: »

Gardai don't get attacked in the station or court ????

By and large no they don't, its fairly rare. I'm not saying stuff doesn't happen, but I don't think things are that bad (thank God) that we have to wear stab vests and tacticool/practical gear to the public counter or to court.

audidiesel

its a sad state of affairs when the postmen have a uniform more suited to policing than the guards. ditch the tie, give us navy combats and a slightly modified stab vest would be perfect for operational duty

the current uniform could be for indoor/court duty then with no major problems.

hi-vis and stab/ballistic vest is a seriously warm combination over the summer.

goldie fish

It is amazing that in this day and age there is no way a garda can be in uniform without wearing a tie.
Granted there are places, such as court where shirt and tie would be expected, but chasing drunk teenagers through fields at 4am is really not a place where tidy appearance is important.

pah

No and it's generally restrictive when worn with the vest. I often leave the tie off with the fleece zipped up to the top and vest over that. Now that it's getting warmer though it'll be shirts and while u could get away with no tie on nights, u won't on the hot summer days. It's a pain in the neck:D

Eru

999nobody wrote: »

Gardai don't get attacked in the station or court ????

It depends on what duty your on. I think any duty with the public should mean carrying gear and wearing the 'battle' uniform as someone else called it.

Manic Moran wrote: »

It is important to note that just because you are wearing a vest, it is not mandatory for it to be the outermost garment if its primary purpose is protection. Which, I would have thought to be the point: Surely police cannot be so heavily equipped that they need the extra real estate that won't fit on a duty belt? I would routinely wear a jacket over by body armour, it just made me look a little bulkier (and I like to think meaner). Stab plates are routinely worn by USian cops under short sleeve shirts.

NTM

Its more comfortable over clothing which is why most military and police forces are adopting or changing to that style of vest. National Guard wear external body armour do they not?

As for the belt, horses for courses of course but minimum 1 pair of cuffs, radio, medical kit, search gloves, torch, baton, pepper spray and notebook holder all takes a lot of space and some of it must end up at the back which is bad when sitting in a car. Also lets not forget that terrible case of a cop in the states pulling his sidearm by mistake as it was right beside his tazer.

Rialtas wrote: »

I'd much prefer to deal with a Garda in a conventional uniform rather than someone kitted out in specialist gear.

Im not saying I disagree with you but would it not be fairer to allow the people wearing it for 40 hours a week decide? I certainly dont think my mechanic looks very smart but I doubt he would be comfortable in a shirt and tie.

Rialtas wrote: »

Not everyone the Gardai deal with on a daily basis is out to do damage.

True but on that basis we shouldnt carry pepper spray or batons unless we know were going to a fight. Not everyone is looking to cause damage but its awful hard to seperate them from the bad guys who arent wearing striped jumpers and carrying a bag of swag.

Manic Moran

National Guard wear external body armour do they not?

Yes, at least in warm weather, but the coverage is also substantially higher than you would expect police to deal with. Given the limits imposed on mobility, I'm not sure that front, back and side Level IVA protection, complete with groin and collar fragmentation protection are entirely suitable for police work. Actually, I think it's too much for the Army as well.

Best pic I can find offhand, but I am wearing full bullet-proof body armour under my jacket here.
http://data.primeportal.net/iraq/NTMTCBasr.JPG. You probably wouldn't know it without looking closely.

You will note that police organisations in fairly warm climes such as LAPD or Florida State Troopers wear their armour under their shirts, but the armour is more of a Level III plate carrier than full torso protection.

NTM

BrianD

I'm guessing that's neither a white nor a silver Toyota Avenis that you are in. What is it?

sdanseo

foreign wrote: »

Thats a stab vest though, not an equipment rig.

As it should be. I'm sorry, but 2x Handcuffs, ASP, Gloves, Torch and Spray on a belt can't weigh that much. Add a Glock, 3 Mags, a full Radio, rigid baton, and taser and you have what US cops carry every day in addition to the above, and they manage. Tetras already go on the vest.

Eru

sdonn wrote: »

As it should be. I'm sorry, but 2x Handcuffs, ASP, Gloves, Torch and Spray on a belt can't weigh that much. Add a Glock, 3 Mags, a full Radio, rigid baton, and taser and you have what US cops carry every day in addition to the above, and they manage. Tetras already go on the vest.

Your speaking with zero experience though arent you?

US cops dont carry 2 types of batons. They dont carry a medical kit or search gloves as they are permited to wear tactical gloves which double as search gloves. They dont carry notebooks on their belts and they may or may not carry a radio on their belt (Gardai have the same option). You will find many do indeed have pouches on their upper body and some will use in car radio systems only.

They rarely walk the beat daily as well but since when and why is it that the US is the start and finish of how things should be done?

Eru

Manic Moran wrote: »

Yes, at least in warm weather, but the coverage is also substantially higher than you would expect police to deal with. Given the limits imposed on mobility, I'm not sure that front, back and side Level IVA protection, complete with groin and collar fragmentation protection are entirely suitable for police work. Actually, I think it's too much for the Army as well.

Best pic I can find offhand, but I am wearing full bullet-proof body armour under my jacket here.
http://data.primeportal.net/iraq/NTMTCBasr.JPG. You probably wouldn't know it without looking closely.

You will note that police organisations in fairly warm climes such as LAPD or Florida State Troopers wear their armour under their shirts, but the armour is more of a Level III plate carrier than full torso protection.

NTM

Very true but as you say, we need to remain mobile and under shirt body armour is a bitch plain and simple. LAPD, etc wear it underneath an open collar shirt and thats it, big difference between what they wear and what we wear but again, they are in the minority for a reason. Perhaps they would like to change.

d3exile

The uniform definitely needs an overhaul, not a radical one but subtle changes would make a world of difference to day to day policing... The tie should go for operations, keep it for station and court as it does look well but my main issue is the heat a closed shirt with vest will generate, I also heard most uk forces ditched it because in an RTA airbag hits your chest, vest rides up and pushes the metal knot of the tie into your larynx... Not good... thankfully hasn't happened here!

The vest should never be worn over anything but the shirt, it's in the code... Throwing my hands up I usually wear it over the fleece but over the patrol jacket or worse, hi viz is just plain daft looking.

I'd definitely welcome a better vest tho for carrying SOME items, and again, going for the uk/European police look (we don't do American style policing so shouldn't be modelling ourselves on them..) I think some uk police forces have got it spot on, if you ever see those uk cop shows on tv you can tell they put thought and logic into making a uniform that's functional but portrays exactly the right approachable but authorative look...


It's been said to death but the cycle jacket should be general issue... It's perfect

The_Joker

And here we have Garda P.J modelling this seasons anti stab vest with built in anti-roll bars, available in a variety of colours, Navy blue, Blue with navy or just navy

sdanseo

Just to clarify - I don't for a second think that Irish policing should be modelled on the US. Their tactics are brash and incite more violence than they prevent, just like every armed agency over there.

Their unofrms, however, look very well, with the exception that I think vests lok better on the outside to project more authority and make less of a soft target as someone who appears unprotected.

Eru - yes I'm speaking without experience in any ES. I never, ever make a secret of that, but long may it not continue if the DOJ would ever get the finger out

Zambia

Critical Incident response after blowing open a Bikie clubhouse.