What is the point of books,literature?

Kinski

pog it wrote: »

The word 'change-maker' passed you by did it?

"Change-maker" is not a word; it's not a very specific phrase, so I ignored it.

I imagine so. Nor are you probably 'after' learning how to speak to people or reading what someone actually wrote before you respond...

I just think what you've posted is pretty silly. You've come onto a creative writing forum, into a thread asking what the "point" of literature is, and spouted "We don't need writers, we need entrepreneurs, dammit!!!"

Very few people pursue creative writing as their sole occupation, or rely on it as their main source of income. Even most published novelists will have day-jobs as doctors, teachers, librarians, binmen, lawyers...you name it. Some will even be entrepreneurs. For the vast majority of these people writing fiction, drama, or poetry will be very much a part-time activity. So what's the point in telling them they should be doing something else? In all probability, they are doing something else.

pog it

Kinski wrote: »

"Change-maker" is not a word; it's not a very specific phrase, so I ignored it.



I just think what you've posted is pretty silly. You've come onto a creative writing forum, into a thread asking what the "point" of literature is, and spouted "We don't need writers, we need entrepreneurs, dammit!!!"

Very few people pursue creative writing as their sole occupation, or rely on it as their main source of income. Even most published novelists will have day-jobs as doctors, teachers, librarians, binmen, lawyers...you name it. Some will even be entrepreneurs. For the vast majority of these people writing fiction, drama, or poetry will be very much a part-time activity. So what's the point in telling them they should be doing something else? In all probability, they are doing something else.

Actually, it seems Joseph O'Connor wondered the same thing- would it have been more useful to start a business and create direct employment in the locality.

Change-maker is a perfectly good word to me. I'm not worried if you don't like
it. I'd take on board the opinion of someone like John Banville on whether a word is legitimate or not over someone random online I don't trust in the first place and whose writing ability I know nothing about.

Bottomline: We don't need any more mediocre writers in the world. We need entrepreneurs and change-makers far more desperately.

Kinski

pog it wrote: »

Change-maker is a perfectly good word to me. I'm not worried if you don't like. I'd take on board the opinion of someone like John Banville on whether a word is legitimate or not over someone random online I don't trust in the first place and whose writing ability I know nothing about.

It's not about liking or disliking it. It's not a word; you won't find it defined in the OED (I consulted the 20 volume edition btw, so you can trust me on that :pac:) It's a hyphenated phrase, which I presume means, in this context, someone who effects changes, but that doesn't say a whole lot. Entrepreneur has a specific definition - we all know what they are. But "change-makers"? Osama bin Laden made change happen, so we need more bin Ladens, maybe? You see the problem with using a phrase that's so vague, and then complaining when someone ignores it?

Bottomline: We don't need any more mediocre writers in the world. We need entrepreneurs and change-makers far more desperately.

We don't need any more mediocre entrepreneurs either...

...and I'm done with this nonsense.

pog it

Kinski wrote: »

...and I'm done with this nonsense.

I think we're all happy about that!

Remember to read between the lines and try to interpret what someone writes - an important part of the reading process. When I used the word change-maker do you think I had bin Laden type change in my mind? Hardly. Now grow up and learn how to pick your fights.

indough

pog it wrote: »

Now grow up and learn how to pick your fights.

that is a bit rich coming from someone who comes into a creative writing forum and states that the world doesn't need writers

pog it

Kinski wrote: »

Just because I'm done debating the topic doesn't mean I'm going to leave you free to snipe, and since you went there...



No, I don't think you had much of anything in mind, which is exactly the problem.



Right, if you're persuaded by credentials, I received a grade of first-class honours for my English degree, and another first for my Masters thesis. I may not be John Banville, but I'd wager that my track record in the study and practice of writing is far more distinguished than yours. So keep your advice about reading to yourself.

But then you don't want to write, nor do you see much value in writing. So how about your dreams of succeeding in business? Well, let's have a look:





So you have no qualifications, and you're a failed trader. Inspiring stuff.

For your own sake, I can tell you now that if you approach business with the same pig-headed ignorance - and dismiss criticism with the same arrogance - you've displayed here, then you'll fail miserably. And deservedly.



Sound advice.

I'm afraid you got to my post on another forum too late, after I took out my qualifications as to retain some privacy, but before you jump to conclusions about qualifications I too have first class honours at postgrad level- and it's not really that big a deal! I wouldn't really use it to boast to be honest. Academia is the easiest thing in the world to do. And yes, the trading didn't work out, but mainly because I left it too late. I never actually worked as a trader so, 'failed', no. I just didn't find it out in time. So what?
You sound bitter and like a nasty piece of work but I'll leave that for others to adjudicate also.

P.S tune in to Primetime- discussion about emigration.

pog it

indough wrote: »

that is a bit rich coming from someone who comes into a creative writing forum and states that the world doesn't need writers

Like I said, ask Joseph O'Connor who wondered the same thing as me- and he said this after achieving writing success.

Anyway, a lot of bitterness on this forum, which thank goodness I don't have!

If any more personal comments are made about me, and quotes of mine taken from past threads, I will be reporting Kinski or anyone else. Thankfully I was brought up to know better.

dominiquecruz

pog it wrote: »

The world needs enterpreneurs and 'change-makers' more than writers right now.

The world needs both.

Antilles

dominiquecruz wrote: »

The world needs both.

That's why I became a changepreniter.

dominiquecruz

Jack of all trades, master of none

Kinski

pog it wrote: »

I'm afraid you got to my post on another forum too late, after I took out my qualifications as to retain some privacy, but before you jump to conclusions about qualifications I too have first class honours at postgrad level- and it's not really that big a deal! I wouldn't really use it to boast to be honest

Who's bragging? I merely mentioned it since you were aiming insulting and patronising comments at me, so I pointed out that I do have qualifications in this area.

Academia is the easiest thing in the world to do.

Harvard beckons, so...

And yes, the trading didn't work out, but mainly because I left it too late. I never actually worked as a trader so, 'failed', no. I just didn't find it out in time. So what?
You sound bitter and like a nasty piece of work but I'll leave that for others to adjudicate also.

Not at all. I always aim to be civil on Boards, and while I occasionally give sarcastic or otherwise smart-alecy responses to points I don't agree with, it's all directed at the content of the post, never at the poster. That's all part of the rough and tumble of online debate. But when someone starts insulting me (e.g. "grow up") I'll usually respond in kind (perhaps inadvisedly), just to give them a taste of their own medicine. And that's been your strategy here: wade in with a glib and provocative comment, fail to offer any substantive defence when challenged, and finally resort to insulting the other poster.

P.S tune in to Primetime- discussion about emigration.

????????????????

If any more personal comments are made about me, and quotes of mine taken from past threads, I will be reporting Kinski or anyone else. Thankfully I was brought up to know better.

*Sigh* So it's ok for you to dish it out, but if anyone returns fire you'll report them? And while I know it's not the done thing to discuss moderation on thread, I don't think there's ever been any rule about quoting old posts from another's history. But if you want to let the mod decide...

indough

pog it wrote: »

Like I said, ask Joseph O'Connor who wondered the same thing as me- and he said this after achieving writing success.

why would i ask him? he's hardly the most prolific writer ever and there is nothing that qualifies him as some expert on the way the world should work and what other people should do with their lives

your statement is nothing more than an appeal to authority, and there would be countless people who have achieved writing success (even businessmen and entrepreneurs who never wrote a thing) who would disagree entirely with him. but conveniently you don't mention those because they don't suit your frankly ridiculous argument

this is not bitterness it's just common sense

pog it

Kinski- you can have the last word. I'm not responding anymore.

Dominique, your Jack of all trades comment, be careful not to make hasty impressions of a person's entire work history just because you have been told they are changing career.



Kindness + empathy = wisdom. What great writers have

dominiquecruz

pog it wrote: »

Dominique, your Jack of all trades comment, be careful not to make hasty impressions of a person's entire work history just because you have been told they are changing career.

Yep. That's exactly what I was doing alright :rolleyes:

Park Royal

To answer the question , there's no point if you want to stay in the gutter...!