30% of political candidates must be female....

myflipflops

Under legislation proposed by the Minister of the Environment, parties will lose 50% of their funding unless 30% of candidates are female.

This is political correctness at it's most dangerous. We have enough disgracefully underqualified TD's as it is without forcing parties to run people based on gender.

If this legislation guaranteed that a significant number of capable women would now enter politics and run for election then it is fine and i would agree with it but that will not happen. We will simply have formerly low level party members shunted to the front in the next election. I believe Ireland would benefit greatly from a strong initiative aimed at getting more women involved in politics at a high level but a set quota is a disastrous proposal.

Lucinda Creighton summed up the idea of gender quotas in politics perfectly when she described it as an 'east solution to a very complex problem'.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2011/0528/1224297952047.html

MARY MINIHAN

POLITICAL PARTIES will have to implement a 30 per cent gender quota for general election candidates, or else face severe financial penalties, under planned new legislation.


State funding for parties will be cut by half unless at least 30 per cent of the candidates they put forward are women, Minister for the Environment Phil Hogan has said.

Mr Hogan will shortly ask Cabinet to sign off on proposed legislation under which parties will face a 50 per cent reduction in funds if they do not hit the gender target.

“It’s a groundbreaking political opportunity for the country in terms of increasing particularly the participation rate of women in Irish politics. This is the carrot and the big stick approach. If you don’t deliver you’ll get your funding cut, and it’s quite a serious penalty to be in breach of this particular proposal,” he said.

Mr Hogan said the threat to cut funding was the only way to “concentrate the mind” of political parties. The measure will be attached to promised legislation banning corporate donations, likely to be published before the Dáil’s summer recess.

Asked if he was anticipating any negative reaction to the proposal, Mr Hogan said he was not. He claimed Fine Gael efforts to ensure greater participation by women candidates in the 2009 local elections “brought us greater results from the electorate”. He said: “So there’s a vested interest on behalf of the political system to ensure there’s a greater balance of gender in terms of participation in Irish politics.”

The proposal has been discussed a number of times at Cabinet meetings, during which the Coalition’s senior women Ministers, Joan Burton of Labour and Frances Fitzgerald of Fine Gael, were vocal on the issue.

Mr Hogan acknowledged their input while stressing he had initiated the measure. “I brought forward the proposal and obviously women, particularly Minister Burton and Minister Fitzgerald, would be very strongly supportive of it.” He also said Cabinet was “very supportive”.

He said the proposed legislation would apply at national level “initially”. As State funding of political parties was based on the vote received in the previous national election, it might be difficult to implement at local level, he said.

“But I think that there will be a huge pressure on political parties to replicate this at local level once it’s implemented at national level.”

In 2009, Senator Ivana Bacik produced a report recommending parties should face financial penalties unless a third of their general election candidates were women.

Exchequer funding for 2010 was more than €13,480,000. Fianna Fáil received €5,200,780; Fine Gael €4,484,378; Labour €2,163,293; the Greens €801,999 and Sinn Féin €830,298.

The Dáil has 166 seats, 25 of which are occupied by women. In February’s general election, some 15 per cent of the 566 candidates were women. More than 16 per cent of Fine Gael’s candidates were women, with 25 per cent from Labour; 14.6 per cent from Fianna Fáil and 19.5 per cent from Sinn Féin.

For Independents and others, including the United Left Alliance, women represented 10.6 per cent of candidates. The Green Party’s figure was 18.6 per cent.

The programme for government said public funding for political parties would be tied to the level of participation by women as candidates those parties achieve, but did not set targets or detail penalties.

Mr Hogan noted Taoiseach Enda Kenny, in opposition, had attempted to implement quotas of women candidates in Fine Gael, “with mixed results”. Lucinda Creighton and several other Fine Gael women opposed the measure, with Ms Creighton describing it as an “easy solution to a very complex problem

Count Duckula

Given that at least 30% of the male candidates are utterly unsuitable anyway, I don't see how this could possibly make things any worse.

desertcircus

This is only a problem if you think there are less than half as many competent women as competent men involved in political parties.

The fact that we're looking at legislation to increase the numbers of female TDs to 30% is an indictment of the abysmal record of the current setup, not the ramifications of the new one.

Mr McBoatface

Positive discrimination doesn't fix the problem. They need to find out what the route cause of the problem is and address that with reform.

All this proposal does is weaken the position of women in politics and weakens an already poor political system. If this is brought in women in politics will be viewed by many as being involved in politics not because they where the right or best person for the job but because some fudged up legal requirement has placed them there without any regard for merit.

deirdre_dub

jobyrne30 wrote: »

Positive discrimination doesn't fix the problem. They need to find out what the route cause of the problem is and address that with reform.

That's what everyone has been saying for decades now. So - how many more decades do you think should be allowed for this process to complete itself?

All this proposal does is weaken the position of women in politics and weakens an already poor political system. If this is brought in women in politics will be viewed by many as being involved in politics not because they where the right or best person for the job but because some fudged up legal requirement has placed them there without any regard for merit.

I don't doubt that some parties, when choosing their female candidates, will deliberately choose ones without merit in order to weaken the position of women in politics.

Agent Smith

Total Bullshit tbh


The best people should be selected, regardless of whats between their legs.

Solair

Well, I'm a bloke and I agree with this move. Women are at no disadvantage when they are on the ticket and I do not think that the electorate are in any way sexist, but there is something seriously wrong with the parties' candidate selection process which seems to produce a boring panel of middle aged men.

I would hope that things might shake up generally and more people from different background get on the ticket. We see exactly what a bunch of middle aged, middle class, similarly experienced men brought us : group think, corruption and lack of new ideas.

Anything that brings new blood into the system is positive, in my opinion.

alex73

Load of Bollox, I'm going to vote for a TD because they are capable, not because they are a Man or a Woman.

dlofnep

What will they do to combat the lack of independent female candidates? Lame idea.

Count Duckula

Agent Smith wrote: »

Total Bullshit tbh


The best people should be selected, regardless of whats between their legs.

But they're clearly not being, are they? Unless you're seriously suggesting that the "best people" are male 84% of the time.

Mr McBoatface

deirdre_dub wrote: »

That's what everyone has been saying for decades now. So - how many more decades do you think should be allowed for this process to complete itself?

What process are you referring to exactly ? As far as I can see there has been lip service and no real effort to find out why women are not involved in politics to the extent males are. If you find the route cause then you can fix the issue with a real solutions.

deirdre_dub wrote: »

I don't doubt that some parties, when choosing their female candidates, will deliberately choose ones without merit in order to weaken the position of women in politics.

I was thinking more from the public perspective ... the public want the best person for the job not the best female.

SugarHigh

Isn't this saying that women can't compete on equal terms so require an advantage. I don't see why it's fair to judge people on their gender but it only seems ok if it goes in the favour of women.

Women are already equally represented in politics by making up 50% of the electorate. There are no unemployed TD's but that doesn't mean unemployed people are not being represented. Do people not understand democracy?

Mr McBoatface

Count Duckula wrote: »

But they're clearly not being, are they? Unless you're seriously suggesting that the "best people" are male 84% of the time.

Your confusing issues there..... How to attract the best people to politics and how to end political corruption is not a gender specific issue.

SugarHigh

jobyrne30 wrote: »

Your confusing issues there..... How to attract the best people to politics and how to end political corruption is not a gender specific issue.

I agree. I don't see why gender gets the importance it does. Anyone who votes based on gender is a moron. Voting for someone because they're a woman is just as dumb as not voting for them because they're a woman. Yet only one of these is socially acceptable.

stupidusername

I think it's a good thing to draw attention to the lack of females in politics, but this is a bad way to go about it. it's like if someone's being excluded from a game in the playground, teacher comes along and say 'awh come on guys, be nice, play with X, she's being left out'. it's likely to be a waste of time. Do they think that there are lots of women wishing they could get into politics, but are somehow feeling intimidated? Maybe it's different when you're actually in that world, I don't know as i'm not involved in politics at all.

Maybe with this enforced it will encourage more women in, and yes this could be a good thing, but I still think it's a ridiculous way to go about it. What's next, are they going to stop women getting into other areas of work until 'enough' women have gone into politics?

Dravokivich

I honestly think politics is not a place that should have gender quotas. Ideally a politician is there to represent the people. Regardless of the gender of the people or the politician.

Logical Fallacy

deirdre_dub wrote: »

I don't doubt that some parties, when choosing their female candidates, will deliberately choose ones without merit in order to weaken the position of women in politics.

No offense, but that is some serious tinfoil hat stylings right there.

Wolfe Tone

Parties should be allowed to run who they want.


Stupid fascist idea.

IvySlayer

It's a stupid, sexist and undemocratic thing to introduce. I will not be forced to vote for women, neither should anyone else.

Having conditions which encourages more women to stand for election = Good

Forcing people to vote for someone purely on the basis they have a vagina = Bad.

If this goes ahead, I fully expect policies and laws requiring that at least 30% of childminders, primary school teachers and any other area where male number are low, to be male. Only fair isn't it.

iptba

stupidusername wrote: »

What's next, are they going to stop women getting into other areas of work until 'enough' women have gone into politics?

There's quite a bit of talk around Europe, incl. within EU structures for gender quotas on boards of companies.

Mrmoe

Is there some reason that we need more women in politics, are they any better because they have a vagina? Gender quotas might be appropriate in some professions but politics is one that we most certainly do not need one. I have yet to hear a valid argument about why women make better politicians. The only change I would make would be to make the system more open so that anybody can get into political office regardless of gender.

Galvasean

deirdre_dub wrote: »

I don't doubt that some parties, when choosing their female candidates, will deliberately choose ones without merit in order to weaken the position of women in politics.

Do you honestly think political parties would shoot themselves in the foot by intentionaly selecting bad candidates just to spite women?
As implied by another poster already, that is some serious conspiracy theory BS right there.

MadsL

Generally speaking I'd support this. However, I'd also love to see a 'dynasty' quota - parties should lose x% of funding for every nepotistic candidate they put up. The concept of inheriting a TD or Council seat is so wrong in a republic.

Dravokivich

MadsL wrote: »

Generally speaking I'd support this. However, I'd also love to see a 'dynasty' quota - parties should lose x% of funding for every nepotistic candidate they put up. The concept of inheriting a TD or Council seat is so wrong in a republic.

As is a carpenters son/daughter becoming a carpenter...

amacachi

Solair wrote: »

Well, I'm a bloke and I agree with this move. Women are at no disadvantage when they are on the ticket and I do not think that the electorate are in any way sexist, but there is something seriously wrong with the parties' candidate selection process which seems to produce a boring panel of middle aged men.

That sounds grand but the ratio of women:men who stand as independents is lower than those who stand for parties, suggesting that the parties are already doing well at encouraging women to stand. As you said, the electorate have no problem with voting for women so the problem seems to lie elsewhere.

partyatmygaff

MadsL wrote: »

Generally speaking I'd support this. However, I'd also love to see a 'dynasty' quota - parties should lose x% of funding for every nepotistic candidate they put up. The concept of inheriting a TD or Council seat is so wrong in a republic.

Why should it be?

They don't "inherit" the seat from anyone. One family member is voted out and another is voted in by the electorate. There's nothing inherently wrong with that. It's not as if a Dáil seat is inheritable.

MadsL

At one point in 2009 we had 33% of the current cabinet (Cowen, Coughlan, Lenihan, Ó Cuív, Hanafin) Taoiseach, Tanaiste, and Minister for Finance
Leader of the Opposition, as either children or grandchildren of TDs.


Does that seem appropriate to you?

As is a carpenters son/daughter becoming a carpenter...

You no longer have to be selected by the guild to become a carpenter, unlike becoming a TD.

partyatmygaff

MadsL wrote: »

At one point in 2009 we had 33% of the current cabinet (Cowen, Coughlan, Lenihan, Ó Cuív, Hanafin) Taoiseach, Tanaiste, and Minister for Finance
Leader of the Opposition, as either children or grandchildren of TDs.


Does that seem appropriate to you?

Why wouldn't it? They didn't inherit their seats from their parents, the electorate voted them in in the same way that they voted in their parents. It's not up for me to say whether or not their choices were appropriate.

What do you propose we do? Ban the next two generations of any current T.D's family from holding public office?

MadsL

The electorate voted for whoever was put up as candidates. It's a hell of a lot easier to be put up by a party if your da was a Lenihan or Coughlan or whatever.

What do you propose we do? Ban the next two generations of any current T.D's family from holding public office?

It would be a hell of stand against the kind of useless muppets who have left us with two generations of debt.


..and we shouldn't do this because.....??

partyatmygaff

MadsL wrote: »

..and we shouldn't do this because.....??

You honestly see nothing wrong with barring the next two generations of current TD's families from holding public office?

"I want to run for T.D."
"Too bad, your grandfather served a term forty years ago."

That doesn't sound very fair, does it?

MadsL

next two generations of current TD's families from holding public office?

Until we get some transparency, accountability and integrity in political life in this country, then yes, maybe.

What I was actually proposing was penalising political parties. Democratically, I guess you have to let the 'heirs to the estate' run. But maybe as independants without party funds.

Nepotism is rife in Irish political life (Did Barry Cowen's election not leave a nasy taste in your mouth?) something has to be done to stamp it out.

partyatmygaff

MadsL wrote: »

Until we get some transparency, accountability and integrity in political life in this country, then yes, maybe.

How is punishing children and grandchildren for the faults of their parents going to achieve any of this?

What I was actually proposing was penalising political parties. Democratically, I guess you have to let the 'heirs to the estate' run. But maybe as independants without party funds.

Again, that is punishing innocent people for the flaws and crimes of their parents. Why should anyone be prevented from joining a political party or running for election just because their parent/grandparent/uncle/aunt was once a TD or party member?

Nepotism is rife in Irish political life (Did Barry Cowen's election not leave a nasy taste in your mouth?) something has to be done to stamp it out.

There were 21 candidates in Barry Cowen's constituency. It's not as if the people of Laois and Offaly were obliged to vote him in.

SugarHigh

stupidusername wrote: »

Maybe with this enforced it will encourage more women in, and yes this could be a good thing, but I still think it's a ridiculous way to go about it. What's next, are they going to stop women getting into other areas of work until 'enough' women have gone into politics?

Exactly. If women are deciding not to get into politics I don't see why we should try and herd them into it. This really annoys me because women were given equality and have the choice of whatever career they want. Certain people seem to have decided they are making the wrong choices so we should just herd them into the "right" ones.

SugarHigh

MadsL wrote: »

Until we get some transparency, accountability and integrity in political life in this country, then yes, maybe.

What I was actually proposing was penalising political parties. Democratically, I guess you have to let the 'heirs to the estate' run. But maybe as independants without party funds.

Nepotism is rife in Irish political life (Did Barry Cowen's election not leave a nasy taste in your mouth?) something has to be done to stamp it out.

People voted for Barry Cowen so why would it leave a bad taste in my mouth. The best way to stamp it out is to not vote for them but as long as people do they deserve to be there just as much as anyone else. Most people who get involved in politics are related to politicians I don't see why parties should be blamed or penalised for the indifference to politics most people have. I also don't see why they should be penalised for the lack of interest from women. As long as they aren't preventing women they aren't doing anything wrong and don't deserve to be punished.

As has already been pointed out parties already have higher percentages than independents so they obviously aren't to blame. In essence they are going to be penalised for not being sexist and not giving women an advantage because thats what equality seems to mean these days. If you treat women equally you are sexist and the only way not to be sexist is to give them an advantage which is what feminismis clearly striving for.

Just look at how Vincent Browne was called sexist for treating Joan Burton the same as every other guest. The same happened when she didn't get ministerial position she wanted it must have been sexism. Too many women use claims of sexism as a ploy to gain advantage

During the election, RTÉ interviewed Richard Boyd Barrett after he defeated Mary Hanafin and Ivana Bacik to win the final seat in the constituency. The first question they asked was whether he felt guilty about winning a seat that would otherwise have gone to a woman.

Mary Coughlans camp also tried to use the sexism card to gain advantage.

However the other main talking point is the national media blackout ordered by Mary Coughlan’s camp.

A number of national newspapers have been refused access to her campaign, with Ms Coughlan privately citing the ‘horrid’ coverage she received in her time as Tanaiste.

A close friend told us: “Mary has been picked on because she’s a woman and because she’s from Donegal. Why should she offer interviews now to a hostile press which has been nothing short of horrid?”

Every Fianna Fáil politician received bad coverage and rightly so but her camp tried to claim it as sexism based on nothing and decided this justified them to less media scrutiny.

MadsL

There were 21 candidates in Barry Cowen's constituency. It's not as if the people of Laois and Offaly were obliged to vote him in.

...and there were only three FF ones

While attending a meeting of Offaly County Council in January 1984 Cowen was taken ill. He was taken to St. Vincent's Hospital in Dublin and died several days later on 24 January 1984. He was survived by his wife, Mary, and three sons. The consequent by-election for his seat in the 24th Dáil was won by his second son, Brian Cowen, who went on to serve as Taoiseach from 2008 to 2011.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Cowen

Mildred Fox

She was first elected to the 27th Dáil at the Wicklow by-election in June 1995 following the death of her father, sitting independent TD Johnny Fox.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mildred_Fox

And in the 31st Dial ...
Charles Flanagan (FG)
Son of Oliver J Flanagan

Ciaran Lynch (L)
Ciaran is a brother-in-law of Kathleen Lynch also elected to 31st Dáil

Richard Bruton (FG)
Brother of John Bruton

Brian Lenihan (FF)
Say no more - at least Mammy O'Rourke is gone.

Michael Creed (FG)
Creed stepped down from the Dáil at the 1989 general election, when his son Michael then held the seat for Fine Gael.

Marcella Corcoran Kennedy (FG)
third generation of the Corcoran family :rolleyes:

Lucinda Creighton (FG)
Married to Fine Gael Senator Paul Bradford.

Tony McLoughlin (FG)
His uncle Joe was a TD. His father, Pat, was a councillor.

Joe Carey (FG)
Son of a Pat Carey.

Joe McHugh (FG)
Joe is married to Olwyn, who was also a TD.

Kieran O’Donnell (FG)
Nephew of former TD Tom O’Donnell

Michael Healy Rae
Say no more.

Niall Collins (FF)
Hits a full house - Niall is the grandson of James, nephew of Gerry, and nephew of Michael J., all of whom were TDs in their time.

Eamon Ó Cuív (FF)

Alan Farell (FG)
Didn't inherit but since his election to the Dáil, Farrell has been the subject of controversy as he hired his wife Emma Doyle as his parliamentary assistant in the Dail just two weeks after she was rejected by Farrell's Dublin North Fine Gael Party branch as his replacement on Fingal County Council. :rolleyes:



This list is also fairly long
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Families_in_the_Oireachtas




Seriously, no seriously can you not see a problem here?

SugarHigh

Madsl what you have posted doesn't show there is a problem because people still had to vote for them. It's already been pointed out that people who are related to politicians are more likely to become politicians due to an increased interest. The same thing happens with medicine, people who don't know a Dr. are less likely to go into medicine.

partyatmygaff

MadsL wrote: »

...and there were only three FF ones




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Cowen

Mildred Fox

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mildred_Fox

And in the 31st Dial ...
Charles Flanagan (FG)
Son of Oliver J Flanagan

Ciaran Lynch (L)
Ciaran is a brother-in-law of Kathleen Lynch also elected to 31st Dáil

Richard Bruton (FG)
Brother of John Bruton

Brian Lenihan (FF)
Say no more - at least Mammy O'Rourke is gone.

Michael Creed (FG)
Creed stepped down from the Dáil at the 1989 general election, when his son Michael then held the seat for Fine Gael.

Marcella Corcoran Kennedy (FG)
third generation of the Corcoran family :rolleyes:

Lucinda Creighton (FG)
Married to Fine Gael Senator Paul Bradford.

Tony McLoughlin (FG)
His uncle Joe was a TD. His father, Pat, was a councillor.

Joe Carey (FG)
Son of a Pat Carey.

Joe McHugh (FG)
Joe is married to Olwyn, who was also a TD.

Kieran O’Donnell (FG)
Nephew of former TD Tom O’Donnell

Michael Healy Rae
Say no more.

Niall Collins (FF)
Hits a full house - Niall is the grandson of James, nephew of Gerry, and nephew of Michael J., all of whom were TDs in their time.

Eamon Ó Cuív (FF)

Alan Farell (FG)
Didn't inherit but since his election to the Dáil, Farrell has been the subject of controversy as he hired his wife Emma Doyle as his parliamentary assistant in the Dail just two weeks after she was rejected by Farrell's Dublin North Fine Gael Party branch as his replacement on Fingal County Council. :rolleyes:



This list is also fairly long
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Families_in_the_Oireachtas




Seriously, no seriously can you not see a problem here?

Yeah I seriously (In bold too) do not see a problem. They were voted in, the same way their parents were voted in.

If you want to talk about nepotism in politics talk about monarchies, not about legitimately elected sons and daughters of former T.Ds..

There's no nefarious conspiracy, it's just a simple fact of life that children often imitate their parents. Trying to discriminate against people because of their family in some vague war against nepotism isn't the way forward.

exe.pat

First off, if a person wants a career in politics they should have to work as hard as everyone else. These quotas make women a special class, like a ruling class that have rights to positions regardless of their ability.

The way these things have worked in other countries is that the women that are placed in these positions, are radical genderists.

I would not be so opposed to it if a diverse section of the female population got these positions and the country wasn't in such a bad position economically.

iptba

I see the "inheritance" statistic as suggesting that we do not attract as wide a range of capable people as is possible into the system.

I've known plenty of intelligent people and only a small fraction would ever consider running for a party.

I think part of it is party politics (which isn't being done away with by quotas for gender or anything else): standing for a party wouldn't appeal to me, what with constantly having to agree with members of your own party because they're members of your party, and disagree with members of other parties because they're not members of your party, and indeed having to vote that way because of the "whip" system. I presume it's the same many other people also.

MadsL

children often imitate their parents

Nail. Head.

Brown envelopes
Expenses
Planning Corruption
Overinflated sense of entitlement and worth...

need I go on.

The first step to admitting you have a problem. Ireland has a serious problem with addiction to political 'succession', sometimes the 'heirs' are competant - often they are complete clowns.

Monarchies are largely symbolic and have very little power. There is the weath issue, but lets not dwell. Politicians wield real and significant power. Parish pump politics together with 'ah, sure I knew yer father' has not served this country well.

I'm not fully sure how you fix it, but its a problem alright.

Let's draw a quick comparison; last 5 british PMs and last five Taoisigh

Gordon Brown has two brothers, John Brown and Andrew Brown. Andrew has been Head of Media Relations in the UK for the French-owned utility company EDF Energy since 2004.[131] Gordon Brown is also the brother-in-law of environmental journalist Clare Rewcastle Brown.

Tony Blair
His brother is a judge.

John Major
Father had a garden ornaments business, His brother Terry Major-Ball was a journalist/writer, his son runs his own business, his daughter is a veterinary nurse.

Margaret Thatcher (I still hate her btw)
Famously daughter of a shopkeeper, two famously useless offspring, neither in politics.

Jim Callahan
I can't find anything notable about his son and two daughters.

compared to...

Brian Cowen
More Cowens going forward...
Bernard Cowen (1932–1984): FF TD Laois–Offaly 1969–1984
his son Brian Cowen (born 1960): FF TD Laois–Offaly 1984–2011
his son Barry Cowen: FF TD Laois–Offaly 2011–


Bertie Ahern
De bruuver...
Bertie Ahern (born 1951): FF TD Dublin Central 1977–2011
his brother Noel Ahern (born 1944): FF TD Dublin North West 1992–2011


John Bruton
John Bruton (born 1947): FG TD Meath 1969–2004
his brother Richard Bruton (born 1953): FG Senator 1981–1982, TD Dublin North Central 1982–

Albert Reynolds
Not a 100% but I think that he is related to this branch of the family (anyone know for sure?)Patrick Reynolds (1887–1932): CnaG TD Leitrim–Sligo 1927–1932
his wife Mary Reynolds (1889–1974): FG TD Leitrim–Sligo 1932–1961
Their son Patrick J. Reynolds (1920–2003): FG TD Roscommon 1961–1969, Roscommon–Leitrim 1973–1977, Senator 1969–1973, 1977–1987
Patrick J.'s son Gerry Reynolds (born 1961): FG TD Sligo–Leitrim 1989–1992 and 1997–2002, Senator 1987–1989 and 1993–1997

Charlie Haughey
Seán Lemass (1899–1971): FF TD Dublin 1924–1969
his son Noel Lemass, Jnr (1929–1976): FF TD Dublin South West 1956–1976
Noel's wife Eileen Lemass (born 1932): FF TD Dublin South West 1977–1987, MEP Dublin 1984–1989
his son-in-law Charles Haughey (1925–2006): FF TD Dublin North East/Dublin Artane/Dublin North Central 1957–1992
his son Seán Haughey (born 1961): FF Senator 1987–1992, FF TD Dublin North Central 1992–2011

:rolleyes:

iptba

This is RTE's coverage of it:

Political gender quota legislation planned

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0528/gender.html

Call for Dáil gender quotas

The Government has confirmed that it is to introduce legislation that will force political parties to ensure that women make up a minimum of 30% of their candidates at the next general election.

The Government has confirmed that it is to introduce legislation before the summer that will force political parties to ensure that women make up a minimum of 30% of their candidates at the next general election.

Minister for the Environment Phil Hogan said parties that do not adopt the gender quota will have their State funding cut by 50%.

He said the parties have four years to plan for the change.

The National Women's Council of Ireland has welcomed the announcement.

Orla O'Connor, head of policy with the NWCI, described the announcement as a good start but said they would like to see a 50/50 split between male and female candidates.

However, Independent TD for Dublin Central Maureen O'Sullivan described the plan as tokenistic saying women are well capable of getting nominated without additional help.

So a representative of a women's group is asked their opinion along with a female politician. About an issue where some men will lose out because of their gender.

This is where I'd like to see some men's groups who would mention the gender discrimination aspect of it.

MadsL

some men will lose out

How do you figure that?

partyatmygaff

MadsL wrote: »

Nail. Head.

Brown envelopes
Expenses
Planning Corruption
Overinflated sense of entitlement and worth...

Right yeah, we've had a few corrupt politicians over the past few years. What, pray tell, will forbidding descendants of TDs to run for election do to solve this problem?

The first step to admitting you have a problem. Ireland has a serious problem with addiction to political 'succession', sometimes the 'heirs' are competant - often they are complete clowns.

Call it whatever you like. They were legitimately voted in the same way their predecessors were.

Monarchies are largely symbolic and have very little power.

*cough* House of Lords

Parish pump politics together with 'ah, sure I knew yer father' has not served this country well.

It sure hasn't. I still fail to see how barring descendants of TDs from running for election will eradicate this problem however.

Gordon Brown has two brothers, John Brown and Andrew Brown. Andrew has been Head of Media Relations in the UK for the French-owned utility company EDF Energy since 2004.[131] Gordon Brown is also the brother-in-law of environmental journalist Clare Rewcastle Brown.

Tony Blair
His brother is a judge.

John Major
Father had a garden ornaments business, His brother Terry Major-Ball was a journalist/writer, his son runs his own business, his daughter is a veterinary nurse.

Margaret Thatcher (I still hate her btw)
Famously daughter of a shopkeeper, two famously useless offspring, neither in politics.

Jim Callahan
I can't find anything notable about his son and two daughters.

compared to...

Brian Cowen
More Cowens going forward...
Bernard Cowen (1932–1984): FF TD Laois–Offaly 1969–1984
his son Brian Cowen (born 1960): FF TD Laois–Offaly 1984–2011
his son Barry Cowen: FF TD Laois–Offaly 2011–


Bertie Ahern
De bruuver...
Bertie Ahern (born 1951): FF TD Dublin Central 1977–2011
his brother Noel Ahern (born 1944): FF TD Dublin North West 1992–2011


John Bruton
John Bruton (born 1947): FG TD Meath 1969–2004
his brother Richard Bruton (born 1953): FG Senator 1981–1982, TD Dublin North Central 1982–

Albert Reynolds
Not a 100% but I think that he is related to this branch of the family (anyone know for sure?)Patrick Reynolds (1887–1932): CnaG TD Leitrim–Sligo 1927–1932
his wife Mary Reynolds (1889–1974): FG TD Leitrim–Sligo 1932–1961
Their son Patrick J. Reynolds (1920–2003): FG TD Roscommon 1961–1969, Roscommon–Leitrim 1973–1977, Senator 1969–1973, 1977–1987
Patrick J.'s son Gerry Reynolds (born 1961): FG TD Sligo–Leitrim 1989–1992 and 1997–2002, Senator 1987–1989 and 1993–1997

Charlie Haughey
Seán Lemass (1899–1971): FF TD Dublin 1924–1969
his son Noel Lemass, Jnr (1929–1976): FF TD Dublin South West 1956–1976
Noel's wife Eileen Lemass (born 1932): FF TD Dublin South West 1977–1987, MEP Dublin 1984–1989
his son-in-law Charles Haughey (1925–2006): FF TD Dublin North East/Dublin Artane/Dublin North Central 1957–1992
his son Seán Haughey (born 1961): FF Senator 1987–1992, FF TD Dublin North Central 1992–2011

:rolleyes:

I still fail to see how any of this can be classed as nepotism.

donfers

a hugely insulting decision to all women, i expect the genuine feminists to be up in arms about this, moronic decision

donfers

Solair wrote: »

Well, I'm a bloke and I agree with this move. Women are at no disadvantage when they are on the ticket and I do not think that the electorate are in any way sexist, but there is something seriously wrong with the parties' candidate selection process which seems to produce a boring panel of middle aged men.

I would hope that things might shake up generally and more people from different background get on the ticket. We see exactly what a bunch of middle aged, middle class, similarly experienced men brought us : group think, corruption and lack of new ideas.

Anything that brings new blood into the system is positive, in my opinion.

you don't reform something by corrupting it even more

Dravokivich

MadsL wrote: »

How do you figure that?

Quota's will have to be met right? Someone could consider themselves a resource in order to hold a quota.

Its no real value if you've just got someone making the numbers.

iptba

MadsL wrote: »

some men will lose out

How do you figure that?

Because faced with a choice of a man or a woman, particularly new candidates (they will still have plenty of long-term male candidates who are good "bets" for seats), many local/national parties are going to be inclined to choose a woman to try to ensure they get the quota.

MadsL

forbidding descendants of TDs to run for election

I wasn't quite proposing that - if you remember I was proposing penalties on parties for running the 'heirs'.

*cough* House of Lords

Do keep up with current affairs..

In 1997 The Labour Government introduced legislation to expel all hereditary peers from the Upper House as a first step in Lords reform. As a part of a compromise, however, it agreed to permit 92 hereditary peers to remain until the reforms were complete. Thus all but 92 hereditary peers were expelled under the House of Lords Act 1999 (see below for its provisions), making the House of Lords predominantly an appointed house.

or 92/789 = 12% of members

*cough* Seanad

11 out of 60 nominated by the Taoiseach = 18% of members

I said "Parish pump politics together with 'ah, sure I knew yer father' has not served this country well."

You said

It sure hasn't.

So how do we fix it?

I still fail to see how any of this can be classed as nepotism.

The contrast between senior politicians here and the UK doesn't strike you at all? How do you explain it - coincidence?

If getting women into politics is a problem that needs a quota system, surely the issue is with the local political parties selection committees. Maybe if we remove the temptation to put up 'the easy option' (outgoing TD's offspring or brother-in-law or whatever) maybe we would get more opportunities for bright candidates.

Maybe we should copy these over to politics - any mod able to assist?

iptba

A discussion about nepotism etc. would be better in politics. But a discussion on gender quotas should stay here, IMO.

MadsL

iptba wrote: »

A discussion about nepotism etc. would be better in politics. But a discussion on gender quotas should stay here, IMO.

That's what I meant. Could any mod split this thread and move to politics?

challengemaster

How long until 30% have to be whatever the PC name for black people is these days, etc etc.

As Agent Smith says, who gives a fcuk so long as they're good.