Adding Lithium to water supplies will reduce suicide rates...

My name is URL

Over the last number of years, there has been an ongoing debate about whether or not Lithium should be added to public water supplies. It has apparently being shown to reduce the incidence of suicide amongst populations. It's the main constituent of many Mood Stabilising Drugs.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8025454.stm
http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2009/05/15/lithium-water-suicide.html
http://www.imt.ie/opinion/guests/2009/05/lithium-for-water-supply.html


I know there's already a lot of conspiracy crap surrounding water fluoridation, and this thread is not about any of that. It's simply about whether or not it's a good idea to tackle a problem faced by a minority of people, by effectively targeting the entire populace.. I see it as a step in the wrong direction personally, and as a bit of a cop-out. I don't really care how effective it is at reducing suicide rates.. if people want to take supplements then allow them to do it of their own accord.. that's my view.

So, do you think it's a good idea to add stuff like this to the entire public water supply?

mikom

If I was to live for a few years in the USA with a Lithium laced water supply and I moved back to Lithium free and drizzly Ireland, would I top myself within a week?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkcJEvMcnEg

DanGerMus

I don't know.... but i do care.

Callan57

Sounds like a lot of Pharmaceutical Industry spin IMO

strokemyclover

I don't know/care

Lithium doesn't mix well with the mind control drugs they're already putting in there.

steddyeddy

My name is URL wrote: »

Over the last number of years, there has been an ongoing debate about whether or not Lithium should be added to public water supplies. It has apparently being shown to reduce the incidence of suicide amongst populations. It's the main constituent of many Mood Stabilising Drugs.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8025454.stm
http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2009/05/15/lithium-water-suicide.html
http://www.imt.ie/opinion/guests/2009/05/lithium-for-water-supply.html


I know there's already a lot of conspiracy crap surrounding water fluoridation, and this thread is not about any of that. It's simply about whether or not it's a good idea to tackle a problem faced by a minority of people, by effectively targeting the entire populace.. I see it as a step in the wrong direction personally, and as a bit of a cop-out. I don't really care how effective it is at reducing suicide rates.. if people want to take supplements then allow them to do it of their own accord.. that's my view.

So, do you think it's a good idea to add stuff like this to the entire public water supply?

Adding pure lithium to water will probaly cause a energetic chemical reaction!

Jesus Wept

Rather than spiking everyones water supplies with mood altering drugs, mental health should be given the proper consideration and treatment that is so incredibly lacking, and in an open, accepting and modern forward thinking non-skeptical manner.

Nijmegen

I don't know/care

Lithium has a whole rake of side effects. I'm aware in our water it'd be low concentration, but the dose would be over a long period of time.

A friend of mine had to be put on it. Sucked all of his energy. Sure he doesn't go nuts once a year when he's on it, but his quality of life the rest of the year is destroyed.

Also, people who come off lithium tend to get whatever they had with a vengeance, and quite a few of them commit suicide.

What if they give us lithium, I take it from a child into adulthood and move abroad, only to discover that without it I'm unstable and take my own life?

Anyway, on a general point of order I don't believe the government should ever mass drug the population in a manner such as this.

Eric Cartman

I don't know/care

yeah , maybee they just shouldnt add anything to our water , that would be nice

whiteonion

I don't know/care

Yay more forced medication.

orourkeda

Great. Lets all much ourselves some lithium

Full.Duck

Eh no thanks, id rather not have drugs in my water! Flouride is bad enough.

Unless weed happens to flow out of the taps then im all up for it.

Adamantium

or they could simply give us normal H20 and not bother adding more things which I DIDN'T ASK FOR.(including flouride)

psycjay

I don't know/care

The research is based on correlations. Just because areas with more lithium in the water coincide with less suicides tells us nothing about the why there are less suicides. Perhaps, for instance, there is different amounts of lithium in urban vs rural environments. Perhaps the increased stress associated with urban life is the cause of suicides and not the mineral content of water?

As mentioned, the doses used to treat mental disorders such as bi-polar disorder are much higher. There is a massive logical leap that a tiny amount in drinking water will have any effect on mood. Plus the altered state of mind, difficulty concentrating, memory problems, are hardly worth the risk.

Also, those articles are from 2 years ago. Has there been anything about this recently?

steddyeddy

Sodium valproate is the drug of choice in treating mood disorders as far as I know. Lithium isnt used as much.

RichieC

I don't know/care

jesus fking christ.

bnt

steddyeddy wrote: »

Adding pure lithium to water will probaly cause a energetic chemical reaction!

You couldn't take lithium metal as a medication, either: imagine what it would do to your stomach? It would be a lithium compound, such as lithium citrate or carbonate.

I would be very concerned about this for another reason: how do you control the dosage? You can't just throw the stuff down people's throats and expect it to just have the desired effects. Not that that wasn't tried: did you know that 7-Up lemonade contained added lithium citrate as a "tonic", from its introduction in 1929 till 1950? :eek:

dirtysteve

I don't know/care

If it helps further my plans, so be it.

End Communication.

mikom

dirtysteve wrote: »

If it helps further my plans, so be it.

End Communication.

You gonna take a bath in it?

jill_valentine

It's an interesting philosophical question. But I'd say no, for two reasons.

First of all, I had a bit of a Nine Inch Nails phase and made myself a bit sick of them, so I don't want to give Trent Reznor this old chestnut to bang on about again.

Second, I used to work in a chemist, and it was very apparent who was on lithium and who wasn't. While I don't have a problem with it's careful application in very particular circumstances, and obviously, those folks would be on fairly high dosages, this kind of blanket use would incur the risk of all kinds of cons for people who didn't need it in the first place. The wider ethical problems of introducing lithium into a whole population, when there's an awful lot of unknowns about how and why it's effective among individuals, would be huge. It would also be impossible to track or regulate any individual's intake, and the human brain is a pretty mysterious and carefully balanced bit of kit at the best of times.

That's before you get into the issue of slippery slopey government mind control questions. The Irish government hasn't exactly got a stellar record when it comes to far less important matters than these, so I'd rather not trust them with anything like this. The quality of the tap water in my area varies from week to week sometimes. Over the summer, for instance, it tends to smell remarkably like chlorine - so as you can imagine, I wouldn't have great faith in the same people to regulate my lithium intake.

bleg

Eric Cartman wrote: »

yeah , maybee they just shouldnt add anything to our water , that would be nice

Ya leave it full of bacteria and coliforms please.

My name is URL

I don't know/care

bleg wrote: »

Ya leave it full of bacteria and coliforms please.

I was waiting for someone to throw up that gem =p

Also, dihydrogen monoxide is bad, and bla bla bla. The question is about adding medications to water supplies.. not ensuring that the water is safe to drink in the first place.

Guill

I don't know/care

How about some prevention rather than a cure.

Saila

psycjay wrote: »

The research is based on correlations. Just because areas with more lithium in the water coincide with less suicides tells us nothing about the why there are less suicides.

...........Lisa I want to buy your rock *opens wallet*

starviewadams

I don't know/care

It'll probably kill me if they added it to our water,I'm already on Lithium!

Therapeutic level of Lithium is close to toxic levels and I have to have blood tests every now and then to check them,so it wouldn't be as simple as dumping Lithium in our water and everybody becomes happy!

RichieC

I don't know/care

jill_valentine wrote: »

The wider ethical problems of introducing lithium into a whole population, when there's an awful lot of unknowns about how and why it's effective among individuals.

from what I'm reading it's pretty much a mystery how it works..

bleg

My name is URL wrote: »

I was waiting for someone to throw up that gem =p

Also, dihydrogen monoxide is bad, and bla bla bla. The question is about adding medications to water supplies.. not ensuring that the water is safe to drink in the first place.

Well it involves putting in a non toxic amount of chlorine in order to prevent disease. At this time putting lithium in water does not make sense as there isn't evidence.

psycjay

I don't know/care

I think you should have isolated "don't know" from "don't care" in the pole, because I'd be interested to see how many people didn't care about what is put into their water supply!

Elliemental

I don't know/care

Lithium is far too potent a drug to go adding to the water supply. I knew someone who took it, and spent the whole time throwing up. Perhaps a bit of Prozac, instead? Rather than the subtle as a claw hammer Lithium, a nice little pick-me-up

Rubik.

I don't know/care

"Lithium can cause side effects that may impair your thinking or reactions. Be careful if you drive or do anything that requires you to be awake and alert."

The effects this could have on an entire population doesn't bear thinking about.

Other side effects go from mild hand tremor; mild thirst; temporary, mild nausea and general discomfort at the beginning of treatment to in extreme cases - severe allergic reactions (rash; hives; itching; difficulty breathing; tightness in the chest; swelling of the mouth, face, lips, or tongue); blurred vision; confusion; diarrhea; drowsiness; excessive weight gain; fainting; giddiness; inability to control the bladder or bowels; increased thirst; increased or decreased urination; involuntary twitching or muscle movements; loss of consciousness; loss of coordination; muscle weakness; persistent headache; persistent or severe nausea; ringing in the ears; seizures; slow or irregular heartbeat; slurred speech; swelling of the ankles or wrists; unsteadiness; vision changes; vomiting.

Someone who is bi-polar can choose whether they think the benefits of taking lithium outweights the resulting side effects, to remove that choice from the entire population would be unthinkable.

--LOS--

I don't know/care

I would object to it the same way I object to the fluoridation of water. Medicating yourself should be a choice, why enforce something that may or may not have a beneficial effect on a small minority of people but may also prove toxic. A risk like that is something that may be worth taking if you are aware you have something medically wrong with you but not otherwise.

cosanostra

I don't know/care

Why put anything in the water its ridiculous the amount of crap thats added and isn't needed especially fluoride and chlorine!

I heard that back in the 60s a couple of guys made that much LSD that they didn't know what to do with it but they got arrested trying to pour it into Birmingham's water supply.

theboss80

Could it not just be sambucca instead?

Sanjuro

I don't know/care

More nanny state rubbish. I'd rather the government stop telling me when I can and cannot purchase alcohol, whether I'm responsible enough to take products that contain codeine and whether or not I should be on lithium. This is an absolutely ludicrous proposal.

bleg

It's not a proposal.

draylander

im human. let me feel how i want to, its not up to anyone else let alone a government to dictate or control how i think.
Bloody facists

Capt'n Midnight

Eric Cartman wrote: »

yeah , maybee they just shouldnt add anything to our water , that would be nice

so we shouldn't add chlorine to kill the nasties ?

or use aluminium hydroxide to remove suspended particles ?

opinion guy

I don't know/care

steddyeddy wrote: »

Sodium valproate is the drug of choice in treating mood disorders as far as I know. Lithium isnt used as much.

No lithium is widely used.

Ok where to being with this one.

First, as Bleg says, there is no proposal to do this, there never was - somebody just thought it made a nice news story. Its a nice soundbite to get your research publicized


Second - this:

starviewadams wrote: »

It'll probably kill me if they added it to our water,I'm already on Lithium!

Therapeutic level of Lithium is close to toxic levels and I have to have blood tests every now and then to check them,so it wouldn't be as simple as dumping Lithium in our water and everybody becomes happy!

A lot of people are already on lithium. It has a low therapeutic index - in other words a little too much makes it toxic instead of therapeutic. People like starviewadams would be put at risk.

Third - a statistical association was found in an ecological level. Thats not nearly enough evidence to push this kind of idea. Also there could be a whole bunch of confounders and effect modifiers at play.

Fourth - like, fluoride, there is no control on dose any individual receives. This would be potentially very dangerous with lithium since it gets dangerous quickly.

Fifth - this is what happens when you accidentally add to much aluminium to water:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-11720343
If this happened with lithium you would have nothing short of mass deaths.


So anyone still think adding lithium to water is a good idea ?
Go home folks - nothing to see here.

Earthhorse

Yeah, yeah!

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah!

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah...yeah!

They should spike the water with Nirvana's Lithium.

jill_valentine

Thought you were going all LCD Soundsystem there, and was confused about the relevance.

But yes, Nirvana in the drinking supply, yes.

phill106

tldr, i say yes to lithium.
After all, who doesn't like a bit of nirvana?

jill_valentine

Ought to cheer us all right up.

2 stroke

Why should I be forced to wash my car and water my garden with lithium?

Daegerty

I don't know/care

There is plenty lithium in seawater. and besides we need it for making batteries not pouring it down the drain

Earthhorse

jill_valentine wrote: »

Thought you were going all LCD Soundsystem there...

You thought I was breaking up?

jill_valentine

I've changed my mind about the Lithium. This post LCD world is too harsh and cruel for my gentle heart.

Daegerty

I don't know/care

jill_valentine wrote: »

I've changed my mind about the Lithium. This post LCD world is too harsh and cruel for my gentle heart.

You're dead right, I find the CRT world to be my comfort zone but lucky for you LCD's are still in production

decisions

I don't know/care

Having alredy made the decision to not take lithium and other mood stabilizers for my bi polar I would be quite pissed off if it was put in the water supply.

Anyway isnt it toxic and when you are on it you need to get regular blood tests.

Wouldnt a better solution be to try break down the stigma around mental illness and depression and make it cheaper and easier to get help.

Captain_Generic

They could just say they're doing it and actually do nothing, for a big fat placebo effect.

Of course now they can't because it only works if you don't know its a placebo. Or maybe people will think its a placebo when its actually not, leading to the opposite effect. Or maybe I should just shut up now...

Celly Smunt

I don't know/care

any quick fix to help the human mind adapt to an artificial society.







so matrix

Shulgin

I want the water that comes out of my tap to be as close to natural as possible.
Pure H2O and whatever gets dissolved in from the bedrock on the way is what I want.