Is using 2 pin plugs in Ireland safe ?

golfdiva

Hi

First of all I know very little about electrics.

I recently bought some electrical equipment from Germany and they came with the 2 rounded pins.

What I done is just push in the earth and fit the plug direct to the socket.

Is this safe to do this ?

Is there any advantage to me fitting the standard 3 pin plug has opposed to what I've done at the moment?

Thanks

grizzly

Just pick up an adapter in any hardware store.

golfdiva

grizzly wrote: »

Just pick up an adapter in any hardware store.

Would an adapter make it safer or is it just for convenience ?

meercat

golfdiva wrote: »

Hi

First of all I know very little about electrics.

I recently bought some electrical equipment from Germany and they came with the 2 rounded pins.

What I done is just push in the earth and fit the plug direct to the socket.

Is this safe to do this ?

Is there any advantage to me fitting the standard 3 pin plug has opposed to what I've done at the moment?

Thanks

cant understand how you"pushed in the earth"
its not safe to use the appliance like this

cut off the existing round pin plug
fit a 3 pin 13amp plug(cost a euro or so)
the new plug top will have a 13amp fuse for safety

golfdiva

meercat wrote: »

cant understand how you"pushed in the earth"
its not safe to use the appliance like this

cut off the existing round pin plug
fit a 3 pin 13amp plug(cost a euro or so)
the new plug top will have a 13amp fuse for safety

Thanks for the reply

Sorry probably did not make it clear. I just pushed in the top pin of the socket and this allowed the two round pins to slot in.

I'm afraid if I cut the end of the 2 pin the wires would be different. Would the colour of the 2 pin wires be the same as wiring a 3 pin?

jimmyw

It depends on what type of appliance your using but, by doing what your doing there is no fuse protecting it which is bad.Its not just for convenience, its safety.If its a light appliance the adapter with the 1 amp fuse in it (as used for shaving razors) might do but otherwise do what meercat said but try different size fuses starting with a 3 amp then 5amp and work up to 13 amp to see which will blow.It may have a rating on it that gives you an idea of what it uses.I dont know what size voltage is used in Germany, and that will change things slightly too if different.

meercat

golfdiva wrote: »

Thanks for the reply

Sorry probably did not make it clear. I just pushed in the top pin of the socket and this allowed the two round pins to slot in.

I'm afraid if I cut the end of the 2 pin the wires would be different. Would the colour of the 2 pin wires be the same as wiring a 3 pin?

by doing this you have no earth protection on your appliance
you also have no fuse protection(you are depending on the fuseboard to blow)

cut the old round pin one off
wires will be
brown - live (connect to fuse)
blue - neutral
green/yellow -earth

really,this should be done

golfdiva

meercat wrote: »

by doing this you have no earth protection on your appliance
you also have no fuse protection(you are depending on the fuseboard to blow)

cut the old round pin one off
wires will be
brown - live (connect to fuse)
blue - neutral
green/yellow -earth

really,this should be done

Excellent -I didn't think it would be that straight forward. I was expecting to see only 2 wires given it was a 2 pin plug. Also thought they may have been a different colours as it came from Germany.

Bruthal

meercat wrote: »

by doing this you have no earth protection on your appliance
you also have no fuse protection(you are depending on the fuseboard to blow)

cut the old round pin one off
wires will be
brown - live (connect to fuse)
blue - neutral
green/yellow -earth

really,this should be done

Exactly as said here golfdiva. Could possibly have no earth wire in it depending on what the appliance is, but if no earth then just connect the other 2 as above into 3 pin plug.

shogunpower

that is dangerous because you could turn the plug upside down and insert it the way you describe which would be connecting the live to the neutral and the neutral to the live unless im missing something?

is this the type you describe?

Bruthal

shogunpower wrote: »

that is dangerous because you could turn the plug upside down and insert it the way you describe which would be connecting the live to the neutral and the neutral to the live unless im missing something?

Live and neutral swapped around at a plug, i.e. 2 pin swapped around, wont make a difference to AC appliances, they will all still work. Your vacuum cleaner will even still suck up dust:).

golfdiva

shogunpower wrote: »

that is dangerous because you could turn the plug upside down and insert it the way you describe which would be connecting the live to the neutral and the neutral to the live unless im missing something?

is this the type you describe?

Yip thats exactly the one. It seems to be standard enough in Europe for some reason.

DublinDilbert

Just Becareful it's just a plug and not a transformer too. Many new 'wet' electric shavers have a transformer built into the plug.

People are cutting off these trafos and connecting on a 3 pin plug, putting 220v into a shaver that's expecting 12vdc. Highly dangerous too as the normally 12v dc contacts (now at 220v) can be touched in the shaver docking connection...

Bruthal

DublinDilbert wrote: »

Just Be careful it's just a plug and not a transformer too. Many new 'wet' electric shavers have a transformer built into the plug.

People are cutting off these trafos and connecting on a 3 pin plug, putting 220v into a shaver that's expecting 12vdc. Highly dangerous too as the normally 12v dc contacts (now at 220v) can be touched in the shaver docking connection...

At least it will be a quick shave:eek:

golfdiva

DublinDilbert wrote: »

Just Becareful it's just a plug and not a transformer too. Many new 'wet' electric shavers have a transformer built into the plug.

People are cutting off these trafos and connecting on a 3 pin plug, putting 220v into a shaver that's expecting 12vdc. Highly dangerous too as the normally 12v dc contacts (now at 220v) can be touched in the shaver docking connection...

How could you tell if the plug is a transformer as well ?

staker

It'd be bigger than a normal plugtop,loike a phone charger.

Just from your username,did you buy a battery golf trolley?

Bruthal

Yes what is it you actually bought?

Bruthal

staker wrote: »

Just from your username,did you buy a battery golf trolley?

A fan of german cars?:)

staker

robbie7730 wrote: »

A fan of german cars?:)

Hadn't thought of that:D

I'm sure I've seen OP over in golf forum..

Like your posts over in the RC section btw, something I'd love to get into but can't due to shillings.

Bruthal

staker wrote: »

Hadn't thought of that:D

I'm sure I've seen OP over in golf forum..

Like your posts over in the RC section btw, something I'd love to get into but can't due to shillings.

Yea the shillings are tight all round. Once we have the gear it cost little or nothing, once we avoid too many crashes:D. A few off boards have come down and tried it here anyway. We do a bit of flying by a live view on a tv as well, fly a few km`s away. Its interesting. Have a few youtube videos of it up as well.

golfdiva

Its more the sport for the name:)

The German plug is on a JBL1501 (a filter in a tropical aquarium) . The heater I also got came with a 2 pin plug.


The filter will be on 24/7 its consumption is 20W according to the manual.

What amp plug should I get that will suit the equipment?

Bruthal

Take a close up photo of the actual plug if you can.

golfdiva

Hi Robbie -This is whats at the end of the filter

sharkbite1983

it would be a huge big plug, like the ones youd get with alot of PC equipment. erm, phone chargers are all traffo's in the plugtops. that kinda size.

What you are doing at the moment is safe, the only safety issue really is to make sure your earth pin in the socket isnt left with something wedged into it when your appliance isnt plugged in. As you know the live & neutral are exposed when the earth has something in it.

Besides that, there is nothing "dangerous"
Your appliance obviously doesnt need an earth, its known as class 2 double insulated equipment. it should have a symbol somewhere on it of a small square inside a slightly bigger square. Just use it as it is & dont stick your fingers in the socket when plugging it in & out, you should survive ;-)

Bruthal

golfdiva wrote: »

Hi Robbie -This is whats at the end of the filter

It looks like just a 220-230v 2 pin plug alright. I think them filters have a transformer encased in resin (for waterproofing) in the actual filter unit itself, so should be fine to cut plug off and fit a 3 pin one. The main thing this is doing is introducing a fuse into the item, which them 2 pin plugs dont have.

A 3 amp fuse will then be used in the plug.

Bruthal

sharkbite1983 wrote: »

Besides that, there is nothing "dangerous"
Your appliance obviously doesnt need an earth, its known as class 2 double insulated equipment. it should have a symbol somewhere on it of a small square inside a slightly bigger square. Just use it as it is & dont stick your fingers in the socket when plugging it in & out, you should survive ;-)

Its not for the earth that the plug should be fitted if no earth is required, its to have a fuse in the appliance, a requirement in ireland.

sharkbite1983

Seriously, no point in changing the plug, it will give you a fuse in the plug, but putting a 3 amp fuse protecting a 20 watt appliance is pointless.

20 watts pulls approx 0.086 amps 3 amp fuse is pointless.
plug the two pin plugs into a small extension lead & plug the lead into your socket if you want to be able to plug the filter in & out easily.

Also, if you dont know much about electrics, dont change the plug yourself, its suprisingly easy to create a slighlt loose connection that arcs & melts.

Ive been a qualified electrician for over ten years, with a degree in electrical engineering, trust me!!!

user1842

robbie7730 wrote: »

Its not for the earth that the plug should be fitted if no earth is required, its to have a fuse in the appliance, a requirement in ireland.

If your worried about safety just buy the below:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Travel-Adaptor-Plug-Worldwide-European/dp/B000P0FIUM/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1306320115&sr=8-7

To be honest what your doing is ok as long as the house is wired correctly and the MCB on the circuit is not high rated.

golfdiva

sharkbite1983 wrote: »

it would be a huge big plug, like the ones youd get with alot of PC equipment. erm, phone chargers are all traffo's in the plugtops. that kinda size.

What you are doing at the moment is safe, the only safety issue really is to make sure your earth pin in the socket isnt left with something wedged into it when your appliance isnt plugged in. As you know the live & neutral are exposed when the earth has something in it.

Besides that, there is nothing "dangerous"
Your appliance obviously doesnt need an earth, its known as class 2 double insulated equipment. it should have a symbol somewhere on it of a small square inside a slightly bigger square. Just use it as it is & dont stick your fingers in the socket when plugging it in & out, you should survive ;-)

I don’t see the square with in another square symbol on the plug. It does have 2.5A and 250v wrote on the front though.

sharkbite1983

where abouts are you living? If you are worried about it and if you are anywhere near me I'll change it for you, but an adapter of the way youre doing it now is perfectly safe.

Bruthal

sharkbite1983 wrote: »

Seriously, no point in changing the plug, it will give you a fuse in the plug, but putting a 3 amp fuse protecting a 20 watt appliance is pointless.

The fuse is to protect in the event of short circuits in the power chord to the appliance, amazingly enough. Mainly because they are portable appliances which can be moved around, and have their flexible leads damaged.

20 watts pulls approx 0.086 amps 3 amp fuse is pointless.
plug the two pin plugs into a small extension lead & plug the lead into your socket if you want to be able to plug the filter in & out easily.

So why do we bother with plug fuses on tv`s, standing lamps, radios etc, which all take well below 3 amps?. The point of a 3 amp fuse on an appliance that takes 20 watts is protection for the supply cable mainly, which because they are not a fixed appliance, can be damaged. Its very simple really.

Also, if you dont know much about electrics, dont change the plug yourself, its suprisingly easy to create a slighlt loose connection that arcs & melts.

Ive been a qualified electrician for over ten years, with a degree in electrical engineering, trust me!!!

You will be doing very well indeed to get a load of 0.087 amps to arc and melt anything, would an electrical engineer not know that? Not that loose connections are recommended or anything.

It may not be lethally dangerous to have no fuse in a plug, but saying a 3 amp fuse is useless because a portable appliance is taking only 0.086 amps is very amateur to be honest.

Op i thought i had suggested a 2 gang short extension myself which has now been mentioned again, which would work, but i must of never posted it, but that would work ok, and put a 3 amp fuse in the plug. Thats another option to cutting off the heater and filter plugs.

Bruthal

dmclean1842 wrote: »

To be honest what your doing is ok as long as the house is wired correctly and the MCB on the circuit is not high rated.

Not a great idea though, with maybe a 0.75 flex to the filter and a 20 amp MCB as the first protection. And if it was a ring main, it would be 32 or 35 amp. Sometimes i think the rules in ireland are a bit over the top. But i would never see a plug fuse as a bad idea. For the simple sake of changing a plug.

user1842

robbie7730 wrote: »

Not a great idea though, with maybe a 0.75 flex to the filter and a 20 amp MCB as the first protection. And if it was a ring main, it would be 32 or 35 amp. Sometimes i think the rules in ireland are a bit over the top. But i would never see a plug fuse as a bad idea. For the simple sake of changing a plug.

Agreed but I would not change the plug in this instance. I would buy the adapter as a lot of plugs you get these days have 13amp fuses and people dont bother to replace them with lower value fuses to suit the appliance.

Bruthal

dmclean1842 wrote: »

Agreed but I would not change the plug in this instance. I would buy the adapter as a lot of plugs you get these days have 13amp fuses and people dont bother to replace them with lower value fuses to suit the appliance.

What fuse does the adaptor have in it?

user1842

robbie7730 wrote: »

What fuse does the adaptor have in it?

3 amp, think it used primarily for a shaver

Bruthal

dmclean1842 wrote: »

3 amp, think it used primarily for a shaver

Not a bad idea at all then, so they are the options

Short extension with plug fuse swapped to 3 amp

Or cut off and change 2 plugs and swap fuses to 3 amp ones while fitting plugs.

Or 2 of the adaptors linked in dmclean`s post #28, a good option.

user1842

robbie7730 wrote: »

Not a bad idea at all then, so they are the options

Short extension with plug fuse swapped to 3 amp

Or cut off and change 2 plugs and swap fuses to 3 amp ones while fitting plugs.

Or 2 of the adaptors linked in dmclean`s post #28, a good option.

You can buy the adapters in Tesco too, just make sure they are 3amp (which I think they are). Cant search the Tesco website for some reason

Bruthal

dmclean1842 wrote: »

You can buy the adapters in Tesco too, just make sure they are 3amp (which I think they are). Cant search the Tesco website for some reason.

Even if they are not 3 amp, its still a good option for someone that does not want to be changing plugs. Just check the fuse, and replace with 3 amp if they are 5 or 13.

sharkbite1983

robbie7730 wrote: »

You will be doing very well indeed to get a load of 0.087 amps to arc and melt anything, would an electrical engineer not know that? Not that loose connections are recommended or anything.

True about the small arc, but in general, I dont agree with people changing plugs/socket when they dont know how.

robbie7730 wrote: »

It may not be lethally dangerous to have no fuse in a plug, but saying a 3 amp fuse is useless because a portable appliance is taking only 0.086 amps is very amateur to be honest.

Fair point, but in the case of a short it should pull more than enough to blow next fuse down the line, at the board most likely.
Extension lead is prob the best, safest, easiest & quickest fix.

Theres plenty of appliances in a house hold that only have protection at the consumer unit and sometimes internally fused.
Immersion elements are hard wired straight from consumer unit with no localised fuse as are mini valves for heating zones.

Ireland's electrical standards, though very impressive, are way overboard at times.

sharkbite1983

robbie7730 wrote: »

Even if they are not 3 amp, its still a good option for someone that does not want to be changing plugs. Just check the fuse, and replace with 3 amp if they are 5 or 13.

also good to remember, every standard 3 pin plugtop will have 13amp written on it, that does not represent the fuse rating, that is the rating of the internal parts of said plugtop!!

Bruthal

sharkbite1983 wrote: »

True about the small arc, but in general, I dont agree with people changing plugs/socket when they dont know how.



Fair point, but in the case of a short it should pull more than enough to blow next fuse down the line, at the board most likely.
Extension lead is prob the best, safest, easiest & quickest fix.

Yes a direct short maybe, but what about if the flex on the appliance is damaged, and only a couple of strands touch each other, or there is only slight contact, this may not trip a 20 amp MCB or indeed a 32 amp one in a ring circuit, but could be a fire hazzard, a very small one, but something virtually elliminated by the simple provision of a suitable fuse. So saying the 3 amp fuse is of no use just because the actual appliance is taking a very small current, is not really ideal.

Theres plenty of appliances in a house hold that only have protection at the consumer unit and sometimes internally fused.
Immersion elements are hard wired straight from consumer unit with no localised fuse as are mini valves for heating zones.

The appliances you mention are fixed appliances less likely to be moved around than plug in items. Also, an immersion takes 13.5 amps, and its flex is 2.5 square, so rated to the 20 amp MCB supplying the circuit, although being a multi stranded flex, would still have the same problem as the plug in appliance flex if slightly damaged and strands are exposed, but its not a portable device that will have its flex plugged in and out.

You often see vacuum cleaners with their leads in bits from twisting etc during use and storage, a good example of where a plug fuse would be of good use.

The mini valves would have a 10amp circuit, or even better, 6 amp, probably the same circuit as the boiler, and have 1.5 flex and again are not portable appliances, and wont be moved around etc.

I know the fish tank filter may not be moved much, but it is a plug in appliances, and so should have the same criteria applied as any plug in appliance in ireland.

Ireland's electrical standards, though very impressive, are way overboard at times.

One or two of them are a bit over the top alright. But i dont think plug fuses are over the top though, as they are very simple and cheap to incorporate. I do agree the 2 pin plug used as is, is not a huge danger, but its a simple matter to have the proper fused plug, or adaptor.

Bruthal

sharkbite1983 wrote: »

also good to remember, every standard 3 pin plugtop will have 13amp written on it, that does not represent the fuse rating, that is the rating of the internal parts of said plugtop!!

Its actually the continous current rating of the contacts from the socket onto the plug pins.

M cebee

the 3amp and 13amp seems to be standard now

as robbie said they protect the appliance cord

from overload i'd say though-the breakers tend to trip on short-circuit with 13amp

golfdiva

Sharkbite thanks for your offer but I’m in Cork so it mite be a bit far to travel.

Ok just to make sure I understand this right. There is no need for me to cut off the existing 2-pin plug.

What I can do is buy an extension lead like this :

http://www.argos.ie/static/Product/partNumber/9821383/Trail/searchtext%3EEXTENSION+LEAD.htm

All I would need to do is change the fuse that’s in the extension lead to a 3 amp ?

Bruthal

golfdiva wrote: »

Sharkbite thanks for your offer but I’m in Cork so it mite be a bit far to travel.

Ok just to make sure I understand this right. There is no need for me to cut off the existing 2-pin plug.

What I can do is buy an extension lead like this :

http://www.argos.ie/static/Product/partNumber/9821383/Trail/searchtext%3EEXTENSION+LEAD.htm

All I would need to do is change the fuse that’s in the extension lead to a 3 amp ?

Yes do that and that will work fine. 3 amp fuse into the extension lead plug. And it will also be easier for you to plug the filter and heater out in one go for tank cleaning etc.

dMaN24

shogunpower wrote: »

that is dangerous because you could turn the plug upside down and insert it the way you describe which would be connecting the live to the neutral and the neutral to the live unless im missing something?

This sounds a bit odd, seeing that you then would require to have it labeled up/down or right/wrong way all over the European countries that apply to this standard.

Or how do you mean?

I have been using many plugs like these both ways without any issues at all whatsoever. I'd find it fairly outlandish if there would be a "prescibed method of connectivity"

Bruthal

dMaN24 wrote: »

This sounds a bit odd, seeing that you then would require to have it labeled up/down or right/wrong way all over the European countries that apply to this standard.

Or how do you mean?

I have been using many plugs like these both ways without any issues at all whatsoever. I'd find it fairly outlandish if there would be a "prescibed method of connectivity"

Yes it makes no difference with AC, (as i mentioned in post #11), so tv`s radio`s, washing machines, kettles, showers etc(unless a machine is neutralised, which i thought i seen in intel with some of the tools installed there).

Its still best to keep to the brown to live, blue to neutral setup though when the occasion arises.

It would make a difference with DC though, as motors would reverse etc, some electronic devices wont work, and could be damaged.

A universal motor which works on AC or DC wont reverse with a reversing of a DC supply to it though.

lightnin

Handy website for future reference
http://www.powerconnections.co.uk/converters.htm

Available with either a 3,5 or 10 Amp BS1362 approved fuse



Available here
http://cpcireland.farnell.com/jsp/search/results.jsp?N=411&Ntk=gensearch_003&Ntt=POWERCONNECTIONS&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&suggestions=false&ref=globalsearch&_requestid=1016429&isGoback=false&displaytext=&isRedirect=false

Bruthal

lightnin wrote: »

Handy website for future reference
http://www.powerconnections.co.uk/converters.htm

Available with either a 3,5 or 10 Amp BS1362 approved fuse



Available here
http://cpcireland.farnell.com/jsp/search/results.jsp?N=411&Ntk=gensearch_003&Ntt=POWERCONNECTIONS&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&suggestions=false&ref=globalsearch&_requestid=1016429&isGoback=false&displaytext=&isRedirect=false

Very good, no end of options these days.

Bruthal

M cebee wrote: »

though-the breakers tend to trip on short-circuit with 13amp

Id say thats for sure. Can the 13 amp fuses survive it do you think? On a direct short.

pegasus1

M cebee wrote: »

the 3amp and 13amp seems to be standard now

as robbie said they protect the appliance cord

from overload i'd say though-the breakers tend to trip on short-circuit with 13amp

The fuse, wheather it be in the distribution board or on a plug is there to protect the cable, not the appliance! end of!