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Atheism/Existence of God Debates (Please Read OP)
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philologos wrote: »On this forum you have educated people. Most Christians in Ireland are well educated. It sounds like you're making a hollow claim with no basis.
As have you
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???philologos wrote: »On this forum you have educated people. Most Christians in Ireland are well educated. It sounds like you're making a hollow claim with no basis.
As have you0 -
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That would be a silly argument, I agree. I didn't say you were making it.
What you did claim was
and you went on to state that this claim wasMost Christians in Ireland are well-educated
but then you said that your claim wasNot debatable or hollow
which to me seems like its anecdotal i.e. based on a small or unreliable sample, and that thus your original claimBased on a lot of experience
may indeed beMost Christians in Ireland are well-educateddebatable or hollow
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I can't help but think, 'Why the hell care'. Even if it was true that there were more educated atheists than Christians, why the hell would I care? I remember watching a programme on autism where it was said that many geniuses were autistic and or OCD. They referenced silicon valley etc. It was said that it likely took this obsessive and socially challenged behaviour to make these people come up with what they did. So maybe more atheists are obsessive and autistic, but I doubt they'll be looking for that particular correlation.
All in all, I can understand if it were true that there are more atheists scientists etc. Christians are called to serve God, to seek first the kingdom. To live by the law of Love. IF there are more atheist geniuses than Christian ones, I can see a few reasons why this could be the case, and none of them would bother me in the slightest. As for certain atheists being obsessed with the topic, well I think its just that certain people place IQ etc as of great great worth, and if they are looking for things to diss religion, then the implication that religious people are less intelligent etc probably just satisfies a desire for it to be the case. Maybe they are on average less intelligent, who knows. Maybe they simply have things they deem more important, so don't spend as much time obsessing on their particular field. Who knows, and why would anyone really care
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The usual human reaction would be that it dents your confidence that you are right.I can't help but think, 'Why the hell care'. Even if it was true that there were more educated atheists than Christians, why the hell would I care?
Yeah - I would definetly agree the more logically you are the more likely you hit the beginning of the autistic spectrum. OCD on the other hand I'd say is more likely to be corrrelated with religious people. The constant irrational repititive behaviour is more likely to suck in religious people.I remember watching a programme on autism where it was said that many geniuses were autistic and or OCD. They referenced silicon valley etc. It was said that it likely took this obsessive and socially challenged behaviour to make these people come up with what they did. So maybe more atheists are obsessive and autistic, but I doubt they'll be looking for that particular correlation.
I think it is interesting to understand why some people are religious and some are not. You Christians generally think the reason why we are not religious is because we have not made enough of an effort to get to know Jesus, read the scripture, read C. S. Lewis whatever...Who knows, and why would anyone really care
I think it is more likely a matter of intelligence, education, emotional insecurity, cultural background why one person is religious and another person is not.0 -
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Tim Robbins wrote: »The usual human reaction would be that it dents your confidence that you are right.
Why would it do that? You'll have to talk slowly remember as I'm a Christian:p:pac:Yeah - I would definetly agree the more logically you are the more likely you hit the beginning of the autistic spectrum.
OCD on the other hand I'd say is more likely to be corrrelated with religious people. The constant irrational repititive behaviour is more likely to suck in religious people.
Interesting assessment. You believe people get sucked into OCD? Haven't quite seen such an opinion before. Did you mean to say people with OCD are sucked into religion rather than the other way round?
Anyway, from my limited information on the subject, a lot of autistic folk are obsessive which in the programme I seen suggested that it meant they could spend so much time on formulae etc. I'd say there are many religious/OCD religious people too though. As for the constant Irrational repetitive behaviour, well I would consider you an expert in that field so I wont argue.
'CS Lewis sucks!' 'Atheists are smarter than Religious people!' seems to be a rather obsessive ball you chew:)I think it is interesting to understand why some people are religious and some are not. You Christians generally think the reason why we are not religious is because we have not made enough of an effort to get to know Jesus, read the scripture, read C. S. Lewis whatever...
I certainly don't think that, but you've obviously had that experience a lot so I wont argue with it. I don't think reasoning scripture etc will convert a non believer. Not in the slightest.I think it is more likely a matter of intelligence, education, emotional insecurity, cultural background why one person is religious and another person is not.
They probably all play a part to some degree in many religious and non-religious people, I still don't see much worth in the info though.0 -
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philologos wrote: »Paul - for the last time. I find it frustrating that you've not even listened to what I've said.
marien said the following:
From my experience in the last 22 years in Irish churches (I've been to quite a few). I've noticed that most people in those churches are university educated. Marien's quote flies in the face of my experience. I've told you what it means pauldla, several times. I've told you that it means that most people who attend Irish churches are well educated from experience. To be honest, all I need to say that marien's argument is rubbish is my experience.
For marien's argument to be sound, she would need to show that there are less university educated people in churches than the average. I suspect she'd have a lot of difficulty in presenting that argument.
I think it is prejudiced and bigoted to claim that Christians are inferior to atheists. I never said that you were prejudiced, but I do believe that marien and Tim are certainly for presenting ad-hominem arguments without basis on the Christianity forum about Christians being inferior to non-believers.
It's not a "strawman" to say that I wasn't arguing that. You weren't very clear as to what your objection to my post was. You're still not being all that clear actually.
In other countries it's a mixed bag, see here.
I'm finished on this topic. It's not particularly fruitful in any meaningful way.
Yes, you have dismissed mariens argument as rubbish, but I am not satisfied with your grounds for dismissing her argument. To me, it seems like you've looked around you at Mass, decided that the people there are well-educated (on what grounds, I do not know), extrapolated that to the entire population, and viola! another point dealt with.
Now that's all well and good, and you are certainly right to have an opinion on the matter. But to then go on and state that this claim is neither hollow (and it does ring when you knock it) nor debatable is arrogant, if you can forgive my bluntness. On this point, too, I take you to task.
From the link you provide, it seems that there is a relationship between religiosity and education, with religious practice decreasing the higher the level of education. However, these findings have been challenged, as other studies have suggested there may be little or even no correlation, and the topic is (here it comes) much-debated. Who'd a thunk it?
Some further reading on the topic.
http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/story.asp?storycode=402381
There are other problems with your argument too, but we'll let those pass for the moment.
To test the veracity of your claim, I thought it might be useful ask that, if the claim was right, and if the vast majority of Irish people claim to be Christian (and judging from the last census, they do), would it not then follow that the majority, or a near-majority, of people in Ireland are well-educated? Is this indeed the case, in your opinion, or has my logic slipped again?
Alas, I shall never know. I encourage you to rejoin the fray.
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