Freesat and Saorview in the one receiver - anything out there?

NIMAN

I was thinking of buying a Humax HDR to pick up Freesat, and I also receive Saorview via my aerial.

Was wondering if there is any receiver out there at present which will pick up both, and ideally, allow me to record.

stanley1

Dreamboxes or Vu+duo can do it.

Apogee

There is no single PVR that is fully Freesat and Saorview 100% compatible. There are a number of options which have different levels of compatibility depending on price etc.

Receiver: Dreambox DM8000
Tuners: 2x DVB-S2 + optional DVB-T (x2) plugin
7-day EPG for satellite: Yes
Record from satellite while watching terrestrial: Yes
Hardrive: Internal
Price: €1000


Receiver: AzBox Premium Plus
Tuners: 1x DVB-S2 + 1x DVB-T
7-day EPG for satellite: Yes
Record from satellite while watching terrestrial: Yes
Hardrive: Internal
Price: €449


Receiver: QBox HD
Tuners: 1x DVB-S2 + 1x DVB-T + optional plugin DVB-S2
7-day EPG for satellite: Yes
Record from satellite while watching terrestrial: Yes
Hardrive: External
Price: €449

Receiver: QBox HD Mini
Tuners: 1x DVB-S2 + 1x DVB-T
7-day EPG for satellite: Yes
Record from satellite while watching terrestrial: Yes
Hardrive: External
Price: €349

Receiver: Vu+ Duo
Tuners: 2x DVB-S2 + optional USB DVB-T
7-day EPG for satellite: Yes
Record from satellite while watching terrestrial: Yes
Hardrive: Internal
Price: €450


Receiver: Vu+ Solo
Tuners: 1x DVB-S2 + optional USB DVB-T
7-day EPG for satellite: Yes
Record from satellite while watching terrestrial: Yes
Hardrive: External
Price: €350


Receiver: Technomate TM-7100HD
Tuners: 2x DVB-S2 + 1x DVB-T
7-day EPG for satellite: No
Record from satellite while watching terrestrial: Yes
Hardrive: Internal
Price: €500


Receiver: Dreambox DM800
Tuners: 1x DVB-S2 + optional USB DVB-T
7-day EPG for satellite: Yes
Record from satellite while watching terrestrial: Yes
Hardrive: External
Price: €399


Receiver: Edision Argus mini 2 in 1
Tuners: 1x DVB-S2 + 1x DVB-T
7-day EPG for satellite: No
Record from satellite while watching terrestrial: No
Hardrive: External
Price: €169


Receiver: Edision Argus VIP2
Tuners: 1x DVB-S2 + 1x DVB-T
7-day EPG for satellite: No
Record from satellite while watching terrestrial: Yes
Hardrive: External
Price: €199


Receiver: Technomate TM-6900HD Combo Super+
Tuners: 1x DVB-S2 + 1x DVB-T
7-day EPG for satellite: No
Record from satellite while watching terrestrial: Yes
Hardrive: External
Price: €300


Receiver: Ferguson HD Ariva Combo Box
Tuners: 1x DVB-S2 + 1x DVB-T
7-day EPG for satellite: No
Record from satellite while watching terrestrial: Yes
Hardrive: External
Price: €169

watty

A suitable PC with HDMI, dual tuner or 2x Satellite DVB-S2 cards and a single Dual Tuner USB DTT stick is starting to look attractive. Next release shortly of DVBviewer and MHEG5 plug in should have most or all the initial bugs fixed. Not yet fully Freesat compatible, but shortly will be the most compatible PC Soarview/Freesat solution. XP or Windows7. Linux still has no properly working free MHEG5. Hence the Linux "open" set-boxes don't do it.


Preview (there is link to You Tube video also) http://www.techtir.ie/blog/watty/mheg5-on-xp
and putting the PC where it can't be heard whirring http://www.techtir.ie/howto/hdmi-via-cat5-cable
Full Remote control.

As soon as fully Freesat & Saorview PVR solutions are available they will be here www.saortv.info (in process of revamp to add step by step aerial and dish installs).

franbe

can they all record terrestrial as well ?

franbe

watty wrote: »

As soon as fully Freesat & Saorview PVR solutions are available they will be here www.saortv.info .

when do you expect they will be available ?

liamtech

To be honest i very much doubt a Fully Saorview Freesat Combination box will ever be available . Freesat is a UK service that many (including myself) utilize in Ireland. Freesat's EPG is only compatible with Freesat Boxes, so no FTA combination box will have the ability to display it... Even an MHEG5 compatible combination box does not have the ability to use this EPG data - Therefore in the event that a Saorview/MHEG5 combination box does become available it will only have Now and Next - The Triax ST-HD537 had the promise of a 7 day guide updated via the internet, but this box has been plagued by issues.. SEE: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056168690

One possibility is present... IF Fressat and Freeview released a cross platform PVR ie a FREESAT/FREEVIEW+HD... This box would ultimately be almost 100% compatible with Saorview, and would include a full 7day EPG for both terrestrial and satellite!

Unfortunately there is absolutely no indication of such a product becoming available and when questioned about this unofficially, Freesat have seemed reluctant... It seems unlikely this type of device will ever exist! Shame really... It would be PERFECT for the Irish Market!

watty

Freesat /Freeview don't produce or release anything. People get a product tested and get a licence.

The levels of functionality for Freesat:

1. Basic MHEG (Interactive Text works but not multiscreen)
2. Full MHEG including News & Sport Multiscreen
3. EPG
4. Series link
5. Auto tuning of channels

Only a Freesat licensed product will do all. There are or will be PC (XP or Win 7) solutions that can do all except auto tune. The Triax 537 seems to only do basic MHEG, with rumour of EPG via Internet later (Some Linux and Windows solutions do "unofficially" use the Satellite EPG information).

It does not look likely there will be Saorview certified + Freesat Certified Setbox.

Many of the "combos" are not true PVRs, lacking enough tuners or dedicated HDD. All lack MHEG5 apart from the buggy Triax 537.


So the "single box" true "most function" PVR solutions appear to be a Freesat HD box with channel editor, Diseqc and Dual feed for Saorsat (not running yet) or a PC based solution, which is not actually much more expensive than a full featured True PVR and can be cheaper than some.

Currently no PC media solution fully ticks all the boxes, but it is looking close.

Most of the combos are inferior to a proper Freesat box or Sky box for UK TV functionality, ease of set up and use.

dubguy45

Am I missing something here. I read only this morning that the Irish satellite will be at 9 degrees. If this is true, can we make this system any more incompatable to what is already available.

fat-tony

liamtech wrote: »

...
One possibility is present... IF Fressat and Freeview released a cross platform PVR ie a FREESAT/FREEVIEW+HD... This box would ultimately be almost 100% compatible with Saorview, and would include a full 7day EPG for both terrestrial and satellite!

Unfortunately there is absolutely no indication of such a product becoming available and when questioned about this unofficially, Freesat have seemed reluctant... It seems unlikely this type of device will ever exist! Shame really... It would be PERFECT for the Irish Market!

That box would be the utopian solution for many of us with Freesat and Saorview, indeed. There is one additional "wrinkle" with Freeview boxes, though, in that the HD sections of the Freeview EPG are compressed using proprietary Huffman tables. It's highly unlikely that RTENL would use the same tables - the best we could hope for is that there would be no measures taken on the Saorview EPG to compress or obfuscate the programme data such that the Freeview HD+ box would be unable to decompress it. The only reason it is being done on Freesat and on HD Freeview is to provide some level of control of copying HD material from Freesat/Freeview branded boxes.

watty

dubguy45 wrote: »

Am I missing something here. I read only this morning that the Irish satellite will be at 9 degrees. If this is true, can we make this system any more incompatable to what is already available.

That's more solvable than Saorview + Freesat.
It has to be on 9E or a similar not yet launch frequency re-use multispot


It's to avoid having to pay x10 as much for imports and x3 as much for home produced programming
http://www.techtir.ie/saortv/saorsat-coverage


(Pictured dish can feed up to 1000+ receivers with Sky/Freesat, 19E, 13E and 9E. Currently feeding 7 tuners, 16 outlets inc SkyHD box)

watty

fat-tony wrote: »

It's highly unlikely that RTENL would use the same tables - the best we could hope for is that there would be no measures taken on the Saorview EPG to compress or obfuscate the programme data such that the Freeview HD+ box would be unable to decompress it.

RTE unlike Sky or Freesat, but like Germany are doing full EPG on DVB-EIT. Even if they add MHEG5 EPG, that will remain. Unless a Freesat box isn't DVB compliant it will be able to get EPG. As to if it can get the Series link I don't know. A PC solution will eventually do Terrestrial or Satellite Irish TV completely as it's all publicly available standards (Nordig 2.2 and MHEG5) unlike UK D-Book for Freesat.

dubguy45

watty wrote: »

That's more solvable than Saorview + Freesat.
It has to be on 9E or a similar not yet launch frequency re-use multispot


It's to avoid having to pay x10 as much for imports and x3 as much for home produced programming
http://www.techtir.ie/saortv/saorsat-coverage


(Pictured dish can feed up to 1000+ receivers with Sky/Freesat, 19E, 13E and 9E. Currently feeding 7 tuners, 16 outlets inc SkyHD box)

I see what you mean, but im motorised and cant be in two places at once.

watty

Motorised isn't much use for PVR, and of course can do 9E and 28E easily if the receiver has support.

I have a separate motorised system for "hobby" Satellite TV use. 42E to 45W

Apogee

franbe wrote: »

can they all record terrestrial as well ?

Yes.

franbe wrote: »

when do you expect they will be available ?

More than likely never.

dino7

I've used a Sony KDL32W5810U TV which has built in DTT and sat tuners.

lt has built in Freesat HD and built in Freeview HD, so you get 7-day EPGs for both sat and DTT. I haven't tried out it's MHEG support for DTT interactive applications.

Panasonic also do a similar line in TVs.

adamleigha

Got meself the Edision Argus Mini ip today,freesat and saorview combined.
EPG is a letdown but sourced a few different software versions to enhance menus.Also greater cam support.
Didnt need the DTT aerial.....just connected a cable to the terestrial tuner and the tre's tv3 etc came in:D
Happy enough with it for a second box.....recording and timeshift are easily done aswell so the missus can pause ,rewind etc.
HDD or USB stick does the job
Freck

franbe

Apogee wrote: »

Yes.



More than likely never.

cheers apogee

watty

adamleigha wrote: »

Got meself the Edision Argus Mini ip today,freesat and saorview combined.

If you were selling it you would be in SERIOUS trouble.

It's a generic Satellite and Terrestrial DVB set-box. It absolutely is NOT a combo Freesat and Saorview box.

Nor is it as ergonomic, feature or convenient as true Freesat HD box. It will also be problematic for viewing and recording simultaneously from September or whenever the 2nd DTT mux is running. It's a hobbyist box.

More useful for Continental Europe.

rlogue

Fully endorse what Watty said - a PC based solution is the best bet for the UK and Irish FTA channels provided of course you are in range of Saorview.

rlogue

dino7 wrote: »

I've used a Sony KDL32W5810U TV which has built in DTT and sat tuners.

lt has built in Freesat HD and built in Freeview HD, so you get 7-day EPGs for both sat and DTT. I haven't tried out it's MHEG support for DTT interactive applications.

Panasonic also do a similar line in TVs.

Does it have a seamless connection between terrestrial and satellite or do you have to select separate menus?

Ideally I'd like to be able to assign specific channel numbers to stations regardless of whether they are on satellite or terrestrial.

market_garden

watty wrote: »

If you were selling it you would be in SERIOUS trouble.

It's a generic Satellite and Terrestrial DVB set-box. It absolutely is NOT a combo Freesat and Saorview box.

Nor is it as ergonomic, feature or convenient as true Freesat HD box. It will also be problematic for viewing and recording simultaneously from September or whenever the 2nd DTT mux is running. It's a hobbyist box.

More useful for Continental Europe.

Watty, forgive my lack of knowledge on this. What will be the problem when viewing and recording simultaneously when the 2nd DTT MUX is running?
I have one of these boxes and I'm just wondering what the impact would be.

Macy0161

market_garden wrote: »

Watty, forgive my lack of knowledge on this. What will be the problem when viewing and recording simultaneously when the 2nd DTT MUX is running?
I have one of these boxes and I'm just wondering what the impact would be.

You'll only be able to watch and record on the same mux. It's not an issue at the moment because there's only one mux (hence you can watch and record all DTT). When the 2nd mux is running you'll need a dual tuner.

Macy0161

liamtech wrote: »

Even an MHEG5 compatible combination box does not have the ability to use this EPG data - Therefore in the event that a Saorview/MHEG5 combination box does become available it will only have Now and Next - The Triax ST-HD537 had the promise of a 7 day guide updated via the internet, but this box has been plagued by issues..

It's disappointing to read about the Triax, but presumably they'll try and fix the bugs, and there still remains the potential market for such a receiver. Even without the epg for satellite, I believe a fully certified combo on the DTT side, and plain FTA on the satellite side would do well, especially for second TV's.

I also think the existing combo's get a bit of bad rep based on their PVR capabilities (or otherwise). That's only an issue if you plan to use it as such.

Apogee

watty wrote: »

It's a hobbyist box.

As is a PC-based approach.

NIMAN

Thanks for all the replies folks.

What about the Ferguson Ariva 200 Combo
http://www.freesat.ie/index.php?cat=

They say:
Both Freesat & Saorview compatible. One remote, one channel list for both services

watty

Apogee wrote: »

As is a PC-based approach.

Absolutely.

Till someone ships a pre-built one with Freesat and Saorview certification.

How you would get Freesat and Saorview certification for an Application isn't 100% clear.

watty

NIMAN wrote: »

Thanks for all the replies folks.

What about the Ferguson Ariva 200 Combo
http://www.freesat.ie/index.php?cat=

They say:
Both Freesat & Saorview compatible. One remote, one channel list for both services

It's Satellite and Terrestrial MPEG4/HD compatible. Absolutely isn't Freesat OR Saorview compatible.

i.e. You can tune all the regular channels on both platforms.

Neffa2

Would there be any market in the UK for a combo Freeview/Freesat box (which providing it did HD for DTT would work here too)?

watty

There is virtually ZERO market for a combo Freeview/Freesat HD box. Even less for a non-HD box.

Yes UK "Freeview HD" sort of works here.

Another month or two should be very interesting.

Pal

I know its an old thread but can anyone update me on developments.

Heres what i would dearly like

TV with Freesat/Saorview and a PVR all built in. No boxes or wires.

watty

You need mains, Satellite IF and TV aerial wires.

Any TVs with built in PVR are very thin on the ground. Most are pathetic USB stick single tuner affairs.

If you want a decent PVR you need a box. It can even live in attic and feed screen via HDMI, thus reducing number of cables from 2 (Aerial & Sat) to 1 (HDMI).

lawhec

watty wrote: »

You need mains, Satellite IF and TV aerial wires.

Any TVs with built in PVR are very thin on the ground. Most are pathetic USB stick single tuner affairs.

If you want a decent PVR you need a box. It can even live in attic and feed screen via HDMI, thus reducing number of cables from 2 (Aerial & Sat) to 1 (HDMI).

But if you want to change the channel?
Presumably you would need an rf remote extender as I have yet to see one that can travel by HDMI cable.

kuro_man

Pal wrote: »

I know its an old thread but can anyone update me on developments.

Heres what i would dearly like

TV with Freesat/Saorview and a PVR all built in. No boxes or wires.

if you can find one, panasonic g20b (uk model) will do that, needs external usb hard drive

sesswhat

lawhec wrote: »

But if you want to change the channel?
Presumably you would need an rf remote extender as I have yet to see one that can travel by HDMI cable.

Glass ceiling?:)

A system like Samsung's Anynet+ would let you control their Freesat or Freeview HD PVRs with HDMI through a Samsung TV.

watty

You can do remote and HDMI on 3 x CAT5e cables and still have left over pairs.

Easier and cheaper than RGB scart to a separate room.

snaps

watty wrote: »

Motorised isn't much use for PVR, and of course can do 9E and 28E easily if the receiver has support.

I have a separate motorised system for "hobby" Satellite TV use. 42E to 45W

I just recently dumped my motor and got a multi lnb bracket fitted to my 1.1m dish. Best move i've made for a long time. The Mrs can watch her Cyfra+, the young lad either Cyfra or Freesat, I can then go in another room and watch what ever i want from DTT, 13 east, 19 east, 23.5 east or 28.5 east.

Johnboy1951

watty wrote: »

A suitable PC with HDMI, dual tuner or 2x Satellite DVB-S2 cards and a single Dual Tuner USB DTT stick is starting to look attractive. Next release shortly of DVBviewer and MHEG5 plug in should have most or all the initial bugs fixed. Not yet fully Freesat compatible, but shortly will be the most compatible PC Soarview/Freesat solution. XP or Windows7. Linux still has no properly working free MHEG5. Hence the Linux "open" set-boxes don't do it.


Preview (there is link to You Tube video also) http://www.techtir.ie/blog/watty/mheg5-on-xp
and putting the PC where it can't be heard whirring http://www.techtir.ie/howto/hdmi-via-cat5-cable
Full Remote control.

As soon as fully Freesat & Saorview PVR solutions are available they will be here www.saortv.info (in process of revamp to add step by step aerial and dish installs).

I wondered if this was of any use .....

http://sourceforge.net/projects/mheg2xmltv/files/

Any experience of it?

watty

That extracts TV information in XML format from MHEG5 datastream. (Clue in the name ) I tried it. It's NOT an MHEG5 engine to run applications (which is what normal viewers need). It's "tool" and it didn't even do what it's supposed to do properly.

There maybe a free Linux solution that usable by ordinary viewer eventually. Right now the best Windows solutions are either MS Media Center [sic] ONLY in Windows 7 (Windows 8 Media Center will likely be useless for this) or DVBviewer + MHEG5 plug in (not free but not expensive, needs separate codecs included in Win7 but not in XP). I use CoreAVC for MPEG4 codec on XP

kuro_man

mythtv supposedly supports MHEG-5
http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/MHEG

I will try it out and let you know.

Chuck Stone

I've been following this issue for some time now and it seems as if there are currently two options that get people close to the functionality of a basic Sky sub:

1. Saorsat & Freesat+. One dish with an LNB focussed on 9° and another offset receiving 28.8° feeding a Humax Foxsat. (Sacrificing TV3 & e3).

or

2. A Saorview TV with a Freesat+ box.

Is that about the size of it for the foreseeable future?

Johnboy1951

Chuck Stone wrote: »

I've been following this issue for some time now and it seems as if there are currently two options that get people close to the functionality of a basic Sky sub:

1. Saorsat & Freesat+. One dish with an LNB focussed on 9° and another offset receiving 28.8° feeding a Humax Foxsat. (Sacrificing TV3 & e3).

or

2. A Saorview TV with a Freesat+ box.

Is that about the size of it for the foreseeable future?

3. Any TV, Saorview approved or not, and a combi box for Sat and DTT. There are none presently with Saorview approval, but the channels will be displayed, if not teletext and other services dependant on MHEG5. All channels listed in the one menu.

Johnboy1951

kuro_man wrote: »

mythtv supposedly supports MHEG-5
http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/MHEG

I will try it out and let you know.

Please let us know the result ....... because as far as I am aware, MythTV is using the package I linked to above.

Chuck Stone

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

3. Any TV, Saorview approved or not, and a combi box for Sat and DTT.

Yes but with the limited now/next 'EPG' for UK channels, the limited recording functionality and the manual retuning of channels a combi falls way short of a Sky sub.

I was thinking of the least hassle solution that's closest to a Sky+ box - a 'fire and forget' solution, if you get me.

Johnboy1951

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Yes but with the limited now/next 'EPG' for UK channels, the limited recording functionality and the manual retuning of channels a combi falls way short of a Sky sub.

I was thinking of the least hassle solution that's closest to a Sky+ box - a 'fire and forget' solution, if you get me.

close to the functionality of a basic Sky sub

Is a Sky+ box now a basic Sky sub?

Not that it matters ..... I understood basic to mean no recording ......

I am unsure how your 2. would work out with menus and ease of use.

To each his own

Chuck Stone

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Is a Sky+ box now a basic Sky sub?

I think it is.

I am unsure how your 2. would work out with menus and ease of use.

I think a Humax control will operate a TV so one remote control can be used for all channels and the Freesat+ box self-updates, can record one Freesat channel while watching another afaik.

I haven't used a Freesat+ box so, again, I could be wrong.

To each his own

I have an Ariva 120 which does me grand. I was just wondering what would be best for someone else who'd want the least hassle solution that's close to a Sky sub.

evilivor

Chuck Stone wrote: »

I think a Humax control will operate a TV so one remote control can be used for all channels and the Freesat+ box self-updates, can record one Freesat channel while watching another afaik.

I haven't used a Freesat+ box so, again, I could be wrong.

It does indeed. My Humax Freesat+ remote operates my tv, DVD player and amp, can record and watch at the same time - in fact, depending on the channels, you can record two channels and watch a third at the same time.

kuro_man

kuro_man wrote: »

mythtv supposedly supports MHEG-5
http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/MHEG

I will try it out and let you know.

It works on BBC anyway
Multi screen didn't work but I may not have channels tuned in

Ken bryan

I have a triax Box the ST-HD537 Combi Receiver you can get both saor view and freesat
I have it for about a year no Issues at all .

You can put an external hd drive and via usb record all the tv you want .


http://www.triax.co.uk/?alPage=&rkPage=&articleId={70E4AAB3-B2F1-4EE8-A0C5-295E0F541F6F}

there is a new one which is soar view approved
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Date: 28.02.2012


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galtee boy

Ken bryan wrote: »

Triax have Box 527 that you can get both saor view and freesat with .

I presume you mean free to air satellite, not Freesat, as in, it doesnt have 7 day epg for satellite ?

watty

Ken. it's Free to Air Satellite. Neither 537 or 114 or any other combo is Freesat or Freesat HD.

Also some FTA boxes and combos do have 7 day EPG, but that doesn't make them "Freesat".

My PC does Saorview channels, Freesat channels, MHEG5 interactive and full Guide on both. But it would not possibly pass Saorview or Freesat and get approval, nor is it fully compatible with either (Satellite and Terrestrial require manual scans and esp. on Satellite channel deletions.)