A closer look at Dixie Carter

Riddle101

Don't know if this has been posted, and am not sure if this goes in the news thread but I thought this was interesting enough for it's own thread. Just came across this article when browsing another wrestling forum.

http://www.cagesideseats.com/2011/5/18/2177424/a-closer-look-at-tna-president-dixie-carter

Really makes me appreciate Vince McMahon more, when compared to Dixie tbh.

Lord TSC

I posted it in the TNA news thread but it probably does deserve its own thread. Just finishing it off now and will post thoughts later, but its worth pointing out the site has done other TNA ones pointing out other amazing and horrible aspects of the company as well...

The Volt

Damn it this thread title is deceiving. Allow me.

CMpunked

I was trying to read the article last night but it just felt like reading a thesis that kept going.
Do they make any final conclusions?

Machismo Fan

I haven't read it all because it's far too long (and I try to avoid useless sites like that), but I've skimmed through it. It seems to be mostly gossip, speculation and unreliable (or maybe even nonexistent) sources (the likes of Ricci and Shane Douglas just have axes to grind) or giving out about her making business decisions. And how dare that dastardly Dixie force her wrestlers to work for the amount they agreed to when they signed contracts. 90% of it is complete nonsense and rubbish. I might go through it properly when I've finished my exams.

Diabhal Beag

If anybody knew the history of one of the main guys in that site you wouldn't be suprised with the negative rambling.

As for Dixie she's a money mark. But a MILF money mark at that

drayme

Machismo Fan wrote: »

I haven't read it all

So why are you commenting on it?

Machismo Fan wrote: »

90% of it is complete nonsense and rubbish.

*facepalm*

Many of the knockouts have gone on record about their treatment and it is pretty disgraceful.

Machismo Fan

drayme wrote: »

*facepalm*

Many of the knockouts have gone on record about their treatment and it is pretty disgraceful.

What in particular have they said?

drayme

Machismo Fan wrote: »

What in particular have they said?

Will it matter as they will be labelled by you as bitter based on your current form?

Diabhal Beag

I want to hear what they said too

Machismo Fan

drayme wrote: »

Will it matter as they will be labelled by you as bitter based on your current form?

Depends on the situation. Again what in particular did they say? If it's related to their pay or how they were used don't even bother though.

D2D

Christ, again lads?!

drayme

Dare_2_defy wrote: »

Christ, again lads?!

What's the point Machismo Fan seems like a brick wall on the TNA situation. He attacks something he hasn't even read just because it is critical of TNA. There is little to be gained discussing this with him. If I link to stories will he read them?

Just look at this:

Machismo Fan wrote: »

Depends on the situation. Again what in particular did they say? If it's related to their pay or how they were used don't even bother though.

Seriously why is he even commenting?

Diabhal Beag wrote: »

I want to hear what they said too

Numerous Knockouts have complained about the rates of pay from Shantelle Taylor to Nikki Roxx to their main ratings draw at the time Gail Kim couldnt get an extra $50 per appearance so she went to WWE as she couldnt make a subsistent wage.

CMpunked

Oh rovert, where are you when we need you most?

Machismo Fan

Can you answer questions without getting smarmy? I've read more than enough of it to realise it's mostly nonsense with an agenda and skimmed through the rest. The Knockouts agreed to the rates of pay in the first place, they can't moan about it afterwards. They signed the contracts, it was their own doing. And TNA are smart enough to realise it's not the individual Knockouts drawing the rating, so they can just cycle them in and out. It's business. And Roxxi clearly didn't have too much of a problem considering she came back twice.

drayme

Machismo Fan wrote: »

Can you answer questions without getting smarmy?

I am not being smarmy you are the one saying an article is 90% false without reading it.

Machismo Fan wrote: »

The Knockouts agreed to the rates of pay in the first place, they can't moan about it afterwards.

Goodness me. What about when they prove themselves as ratings draws? Why cant they "moan" about it then. How old are you? Have you ever worked a real job?

Machismo Fan wrote: »

And TNA are smart enough to realise it's not the individual Knockouts drawing the rating, so they can just cycle them in and out. It's business.

If that is true (which it isnt completely) they arent paid as if they were draws.

Machismo Fan wrote: »

And Roxxi clearly didn't have too much of a problem considering she came back twice.

Or perhaps she is hard up for cash. Is that the best you can do?

Machismo Fan

TNA don't need to pay the women more money so they don't. It's a simple as that. The only two proven ratings draw's are Love and Sky and they are still there. Ratings didn't drop when the likes of Kim and Kong left. As much as they are tremendous talents, TNA didn't need them so they refused to pay them more because TNA could just bring in some more women cheaply who would do the exact same numbers. It's business.

And as I've said I've read more than enough of that article to know that's it's nonsense with an agenda (and I'm a little sick of repeating myself).

drayme

Machismo Fan wrote: »

TNA don't need to pay the women more money so they don't. It's a simple as that. The only two proven ratings draw's are Love and Sky and they are still there. Ratings didn't drop when the likes of Kim and Kong left. As much as they are tremendous talents, TNA didn't need them so they refused to pay them more because TNA could just bring in some more women cheaply who would do the exact same numbers. It's business.

You haven't answered a number of questions that I asked previously. Sorry but in the real world it isn't just business it is sexist and discriminatory. TNA continues to open itself to lawsuits (Konnan, Daffney etc). It isnt simply business as you say it is stupid and negligent business.

Machismo Fan wrote: »

And as I've said I've read more than enough of that article to know that's it's nonsense with an agenda (and I'm a little sick of repeating myself).

What is nonsense, you've never elaborated? Given how the article is structured it is pointless to only read a bit of it.

Machismo Fan

drayme wrote: »

You haven't answered a number of questions that I asked previously. Sorry but in the real world it isn't just business it is sexist and discriminatory. TNA continues to open itself to lawsuits (Konnan, Daffney etc). It isnt simply business as you say it is stupid and negligent business.

No it isn't. Why would a company pay people more than they need to? As I said the Knockouts draw as a division not individually.

drayme

Machismo Fan wrote: »

No it isn't.

Do you live or work in the real world? Do you understand what discrimination means?

Please show me that you have though about this instead of just stonewalling at every turn.

Machismo Fan wrote: »

Why would a company pay people more than they need to?

Ask most of the male roster.

Sorry but this isnt joined up thinking.

Machismo Fan

I just don't understand how they can claim discrimination. They don't bring in any money, and they don't draw in viewers as individuals nor can the majority come anywhere near matching the performance levels of the men. Those that have proven that they are individual draws have been kept around and been payed more (Love and Sky) and the rest have been replaced. It is simple business. I doubt Robbie E, Crimson, Gunner, Murphy or GenMe are being payed too well, does that mean their being discriminated against?

drayme

Machismo Fan wrote: »

I just don't understand how they can claim discrimination. They don't bring in any money, and they don't draw in viewers as individuals nor can the majority come anywhere near matching the performance levels of the men. Those that have proven that they are individual draws have been kept around and been payed more (Love and Sky) and the rest have been replaced. It is simple business. I doubt Robbie E, Crimson, Gunner, Murphy or GenMe are being payed too well, does that mean their being discriminated against?

Oh god. Are you for real or are you winding me up?

One breath you say they arent draws and the next you are saying Love and Sky are.

You continue to avoid questions whether you work/have worked and whether you understand what discrimination is. It isnt business it is bad business as it has generated bad publicity (Dixie has been awfully quiet recently) and lawsuits. Seriously cop on here. I mean really.

In TNA's situation the argument that "they dont draw money" is mute as few do and most of them get better paid than the knockouts.

Machismo Fan wrote: »

I doubt Robbie E, Crimson, Gunner, Murphy or GenMe are being payed too well, does that mean their being discriminated against?

Please dont make jokes as you dont seem to have an understanding of the subject.

Machismo Fan

drayme wrote: »

Oh god. Are you for real or are you winding me up?

One breath you say they arent draws and the next you are saying Love and Sky are.

You continue to avoid questions whether you work/have worked and whether you understand what discrimination is. It isnt business it is bad business as it has generated bad publicity (Dixie has been awfully quiet recently) and lawsuits. Seriously cop on here. I mean really.

In TNA's situation the argument that "they dont draw money" is mute as few do and most of them get better paid than the knockouts.

Please dont make jokes as you dont seem to have an understanding of the subject.

Love and Sky are the only two Knockouts to ever effect ratings in any meaningful way and they were rewarded, and even their drawing power has long since run thin. No other Knockout earns a pay rise (and people forget that Mickie, Tara and Hemme are all well paid). The KO's most likely earn in the same region as the likes Robbie E, GenMe, Crimson, Gunner and Murphy because that's all they deserve and they work their way up to a pay rise which they don't get if they don't earn it. If I'm so wrong explain to me why it's discrimination instead of just saying it is.

drayme

Again you are avoiding questions.

Machismo Fan wrote: »

Love and Sky are the only two Knockouts to ever effect ratings in any meaningful way and they were rewarded, and even their drawing power has long since run thin.

That simply isn't true Kim was a legitimate ratings draw when she was with the company.

You keep saying Love and Sky were the only ratings draws can you provide proof. As Ive read or heard different things. Last I checked it all leveled out as they got over exposed for a period. Not saying you are right or wrong here.

Machismo Fan wrote: »

No other Knockout earns a pay rise (and people forget that Mickie, Tara and Hemme are all well paid).

As TNA pays a premium for WWE stars draws or not.

Machismo Fan wrote: »

The KO's most likely earn in the same region as the likes Robbie E, GenMe, Crimson, Gunner and Murphy because that's all they deserve and they work their way up to a pay rise which they don't get if they don't earn it. If I'm so wrong explain to me why it's discrimination instead of just saying it is.

First prove that they are.

Stepping away from pay related discrimination I dont think a male has ever been treated the way Nicki Roxx was.

This thread is about the article and again you havent read it.

Riddle101

In relation to the talk about Knockout draws. I believe Gail Kim, Awesome Kong and Beautiful People were all said to be draws. ODB I think was a draw as well.

That being said, judging from the Knockouts divsision nowadays. It's nowhere as near as good as it was in 2007/2008 and 2009, when all those divas were with the company. The reason why is because Kim, Kong and ODB all helped to build the Knockout divsion and were huge influences to it, along with TBP. So surely that should also be grounds for higher wages.

drayme

Riddle101 wrote: »

In relation to the talk about Knockout draws. I believe Gail Kim, Awesome Kong and Beautiful People were all draws. ODB I think was a draw as well.

That being said, judging from the Knockouts divsision nowadays. It's nowhere as near as good as it was in 2007/2008 and 2009, when all those divas were with the company. The reason why is because Kim, Kong and ODB all helped to build the Knockout divsion and were huge influences to it, along with TBP. So surely that should also be grounds for higher wages.

That's an interesting perspective re: them building something that became a platform for others.

I always go back to Gail Kim wrestling one of the Beautiful People with Kute Kipp (Billy Gunn) in their corner. While Kim was the star of the match, division and some would say Impact itself Kipp was being paid far more than Kim was. How is that justifiable?

Riddle101 wrote: »

So surely that should also be grounds for higher wages.

That's what I keep thinking.

Machismo Fan

drayme wrote: »

I always go back to Gail Kim wrestling one of the Beautiful People with Kute Kipp (Billy Gunn) in their corner. While Kim was the star of the match, division and some would say Impact itself Kipp was being paid far more than Kim was. How is that justifiable?

And that's the very reason Kip no longer has a job. I've spent the last fifteen minutes searching for 2008 iMPACT! quarter hours and bar searching them out one by one (which I'm not willing to do) I can't track them down (most wrestling news sites have very terrible search functions). But the Beautiful People were consistently in the highest rated segments in 2008 (even their reuniting last August was the highest rated segment on the show), unless my memory is very badly letting me down.

I would've loved TNA to have paid Kong and Kim more and was very disappointed when they both left but I can still see why TNA weren't willing to and I don't think it had anything to do with gender.

drayme

Machismo Fan wrote: »

And that's the very reason Kip no longer has a job. I've spent the last fifteen minutes searching for 2008 iMPACT! quarter hours and bar searching them out one by one (which I'm not willing to do) I can't track them down (most wrestling news sites have very terrible search functions). But the Beautiful People were consistently in the highest rated segments in 2008 (even their reuniting last August was the highest rated segment on the show), unless my memory is very badly letting me down.

I dont doubt that during that time period at all but there has been peaks and valleys in popularity from my limited following of it.

Machismo Fan wrote: »

I would've loved TNA to have paid Kong and Kim more and was very disappointed when they both left but I can still see why TNA weren't willing to and I don't think it had anything to do with gender.

There is a difference between paying prudently and being discriminatory, unethical and opening yourself up lawsuits. A distinction you don’t seem to understand or acknowledge despite me mentioning it a few times.

In TNA’s case pay inequality is even worse in the context as they over pay the men. Along with refusing pay rises for certain talent then only opening the purse strings for the next WWE cast off. If they didn’t do that then you would have a point about it being “business.”

Machismo Fan

drayme wrote: »

I dont doubt that during that time period at all but there has been peaks and valleys in popularity from my limited following of it.

There is a difference between paying prudently and being discriminatory, unethical and opening yourself up lawsuits. A distinction you don’t seem to understand or acknowledge despite me mentioning it a few times.

It was a long enough period to say they were consistent ratings draw, then TNA completely over exposed them and sapped most of their long term value.

It's not that I don't understand what you're saying I just don't agree with it. I think the pay scales are mostly proportionate to what TNA get back in return (with the exception of the Hogan's and Flair's of this world but that's a completely different issue).

drayme

Machismo Fan wrote: »

I think the pay scales are mostly proportionate to what TNA get back in return (with the exception of the Hogan's and Flair's of this world but that's a completely different issue).

You think?

Do you think they got a return on the Jan 4th era talent: Jeff Hardy, Anderson etc? Ratings and house shows figures would indicate otherwise.

Machismo Fan

drayme wrote: »

You think?

Do you think they got a return on the Jan 4th era talent: Jeff Hardy, Anderson etc? Ratings and house shows figures would indicate otherwise.

Probably not, but for me that's an issue with the men being overpaid, not the women being underpaid.

parker kent

Machismo Fan wrote: »

Love and Sky are the only two Knockouts to ever effect ratings in any meaningful way

Gail Kim and Awesome Kong clearly had a large effect on TNA. Their feud was the best feud in womens wrestling I have ever seen in North American wrestling. They wasted that gilt edged opportunity.

GTR63

parker kent wrote: »

Gail Kim and Awesome Kong clearly had a large effect on TNA. Their feud was the best feud in womens wrestling I have ever seen in North American wrestling. They wasted that gilt edged opportunity.

I agree with you there.But wasn't that such a draw because it was one of very few things Tna did well. Other times it worked with Angle vs Joe which got Tna highest ppv buyrate.

jimmy jailbreak

parker kent wrote: »

Gail Kim and Awesome Kong clearly had a large effect on TNA. Their feud was the best feud in women's wrestling I have ever seen in North American wrestling. They wasted that gilt edged opportunity.

Well simply saying the feud was great doesn't actually mean it drew money. I don't know if it did or not I'm just saying that no matter how hard you work it's the numbers that count and TNA is clearly the kind of company that would show two dogs humping on TV if it meant better ratings. So considering that's how TNA works a quality women's division would technically be a failure if it wasn't a big draw.

On the topic of discrimination there's something I just don't understand. How can TNA's paying of their female roster be considered discriminatory given the circumstances? Women's wrestling is not nearly as popular as men's wrestling and with the exception of Shimmer the only women's wrestling you see in the US is in companies that are centred on male professional wrestling. The match featuring women would only be an added attraction on a card otherwise composed entirely of matches featuring male wrestlers. It's the male wrestlers who are the stars, who headline the show and who do the most work. Usually on a TNA show the women's match will only go on for a couple of minutes. Maybe there's something I'm missing but taking all that into account how can anyone claim that TNA's women are being discriminated against?

ayatollah

some good points mixed up in the bickering there but good points none the less.

i read through it on my lunch break earlier and there to me seems to be a bit of a whole its either all true or its all lies kind of attitude whenever this issue pops up here.

just cause the likes of douglas has an axe to grind doesn't mean he's not telling the truth.

there does seem to be an awful recurring issue eminating from TNA every now and then with what appears to be the massive imbalance with treatment and payment of the wrestlers on the roster.

thingd like the treatment of roxxi are shocking - daffneys medical issue and its treatment are inexcusible. but take into consideration the money paid to hogan, bischoff, flair and their buddies.

and just cause they have returned to TNA in no way means theres no truth to it - jesus i stayed in a job i absolutely hated for 6 1/2 years. and people often do things out of neccessity rather than choice - if they can make more from independents and personal appearences as a result of television exposure maybe some of them just suck it up and just do what needs to be done to pay the bills -

in addition as to what draws money in TNA - how in the name of fu<k is it even possible to know what draws and what doesnt with the way its run and booked. one weeks jobber is the next weeks main event. you're headlineing the ppv one month, released the next.

but i do think it pops up too often to be dismissed ot of hand

parker kent

GTR63 wrote: »

I agree with you there.But wasn't that such a draw because it was one of very few things Tna did well. Other times it worked with Angle vs Joe which got Tna highest ppv buyrate.

The feud was relatively short and as I often say, I have big issues with the use of the word "draw". Given time and a sustained (and I mean sustained) effort, it could have resulted in greater focus on TNA. Rome wasn't built in a day as they say.

mayordenis

Machismo Fan, if I may, there is one thing I don't quite think you're getting, and I swear I'm not trying to get into an argument.

You mention Kong, Gail etc. not having a negative impact on ratings, and I take your point on that, but it's short sighted, TNA need to go up on ratings and on several other metrics, so sure, they can replace talent and keep towing more or less the same line, but right now if they paid slightly more to keep the best talent they would be in better shape.

Take for instance the world of Call Centres, the turnover in staff is huge and is a massive problem, incentivicing your best staff to stay is far more profiable in the long run than having constant turnover.

I'm not taking sides but it was 1 point that was bugging me a touch.

Cianan2

Wasn't one of their women's champion so broke she couldn't afford to make it to a couple of shows? I remember reading that somewhere...

drayme

ayatollah wrote: »

there does seem to be an awful recurring issue eminating from TNA every now and then with what appears to be the massive imbalance with treatment and payment of the wrestlers on the roster.

Yep from the article:

You know that thing in WWE, where if a guy gets over and he’s not "supposed to", the company gets mad at him and he’s punished? Something like that happened with the women. Dixie kept bringing in one big star after another and the women still outdrew them. Hogan, RVD, Hardy etc are getting over $10,000 an appearance. Angelina Love is paid $400, and likely barely breaks even after expenses, and is still a bigger ratings draw than all the WWE/WCW guys. What does that say about Dixie’s judgement as a businesswoman?

Crazy as it sounds; I truly believe the women in TNA would be a lot better treated if they had never drawn such great ratings.

Cianan2 wrote: »

Wasn't one of their women's champion so broke she couldn't afford to make it to a couple of shows? I remember reading that somewhere...

Shantelle Taylor. She worked selling sunglass in a store during the week.

drayme

PWTorch has learned that Terry Taylor was fired from his duties as head of TNA's talent relations on Friday.

In a company-wide statement, TNA announced that Dean Broadhead will oversee the contractual end of talent relations. Former WWE executive Bruce Prichard will handle Taylor's other duties.

Taylor had been with the company with 2003 in a management role and served as head of talent relations for the majority of TNA's existence.

Caldwell's Analysis: According to sources in TNA, Prichard is not well-liked by wrestlers in the company. Prichard joined TNA in an agent/producer role last year after spending two decades in WWE working closely with Vince McMahon. His shift to talent relations is closer to his role in WWE.

Nothing to see here just business.

ayatollah

drayme wrote: »

Nothing to see here just business.

wasn't terry taylor supposed to be quite popular amongst the wrestlers?

i wonder what happened there?

drayme

ayatollah wrote: »

wasn't terry taylor supposed to be quite popular amongst the wrestlers?

i wonder what happened there?

There is a lot of lawsuits against TNA at the moment.

Machismo Fan

drayme wrote: »

There is a lot of lawsuits against TNA at the moment.

What others besides Daffney's?

drayme

Machismo Fan wrote: »

What others besides Daffney's?

Will you claim this is just business too?

Following on from this, is the news that Daffney may not be the only TNA wrestler considering legal action. Former TNA production manager Randy Ricci told me that many other TNA wrestlers were currently in the process of filing suits with Tennessee’s Department of Employment over injuries they sustained on the job too. Rumours abound that at least one woman is filing a sexual harassment lawsuit against TNA. One other person close to the situation acknowledged this was true when I asked him about these stories, noting:

“There are plenty of other talent who are considering filing suit with the company. TNA is an interesting monster, though. Their legal is based in Texas as a sub company of Panda Energy but the company is an LLC registered in Delaware for tax purposes but all the contracts are written on and legal matters must be settled in TN.”

Ricci then said he was hopeful that things in TNA were changing, and urged fans to take action if they were angry about TNA’s treatment of wrestlers:

"I am very happy that the business practices of TNA wrestling llc are finally coming out and legal action is being taken. What has happened with "Daffney" is a terrible tragedy and unfortunately she is not the only one. It’s my hope that all these questionable actions by the company will not only grab the attention of the U.S. legal system but, also that wrestling fans worldwide take these things into consideration before the decide to watch IMPACT, buy a TNA PPV,TNA live event ticket, or any TNA wrestling merchandise."

http://www.cagesideseats.com/2011/4/21/2125160/the-sad-story-of-shannon-daffney-spruill

Rumour has it that allegedly Terry Taylor might be named in the Sexual Harassment suit.

Like with WWE there is always casting couch rumours when comes to those in talent relations.

Machismo Fan

In fairness there's a big difference between rumoured lawsuits from a bad source and actual lawsuits. Have any credible sites reported this?

drayme

Machismo Fan wrote: »

In fairness there's a big difference between rumoured lawsuits from a bad source and actual lawsuits. Have any credible sites reported this?

Bad source, oh Machismo Fan.

You stonewall to an amazing degree.

Machismo Fan

That's a no then.

waltersobchak

Jesus Lads.. Get a room.

drayme

Machismo Fan wrote: »

That's a no then.

It isnt.

How is it a bad source?

You keep harping on in this vain without reading the article without supplying any evidence to refute it.

waltersobchak wrote: »

Jesus Lads.. Get a room.

I would like to actually discuss what is actually in the article too.

waltersobchak

ayatollah wrote: »

some good points mixed up in the bickering there but good points none the less.

i read through it on my lunch break earlier and there to me seems to be a bit of a whole its either all true or its all lies kind of attitude whenever this issue pops up here.

just cause the likes of douglas has an axe to grind doesn't mean he's not telling the truth.

there does seem to be an awful recurring issue eminating from TNA every now and then with what appears to be the massive imbalance with treatment and payment of the wrestlers on the roster.

thingd like the treatment of roxxi are shocking - daffneys medical issue and its treatment are inexcusible. but take into consideration the money paid to hogan, bischoff, flair and their buddies.

and just cause they have returned to TNA in no way means theres no truth to it - jesus i stayed in a job i absolutely hated for 6 1/2 years. and people often do things out of neccessity rather than choice - if they can make more from independents and personal appearences as a result of television exposure maybe some of them just suck it up and just do what needs to be done to pay the bills -

in addition as to what draws money in TNA - how in the name of fu<k is it even possible to know what draws and what doesnt with the way its run and booked. one weeks jobber is the next weeks main event. you're headlineing the ppv one month, released the next.

but i do think it pops up too often to be dismissed ot of hand

I completely agree with you on all of this, especially about people drawing in TNA.. At the end of the day, no one in TNA is a draw, and the fact that there ratings and segments might jump up, what is literally a minimal amount on the Nielsen Ratings proves no one is a draw.. TNA fans are clearly as blinkered as Dixie Carter is..

partyndbs

Women's wrestling does not draw nobody pays to see good wrestling anyway let alone two mothsers...we wanna see hot girls being sluts