AL Cadet programme

xflyer

I don't think Aer Lingus is too bothered, they will always find 20 people who meet the standard and who have the money. It would be surprising if there weren't at least a hundred or more candidates who fit perfectly inside the requirements. It's also likely that several of the final 20 can't get the money or will change their mind when they realised what they're buying into.

There may well be a panel system as is common in some professions.

Tightwad

Xflyer

Expand on the panel system? Are you referring to a panel interview system?

Tenger

Tightwad wrote: »

Xflyer

Expand on the panel system? Are you referring to a panel interview system?

I assume he means they will notify 20 successful candidates and also notify 5 candidates to be on a panel. If something happens to some of the 20, EI have 5 back-ups.



I do see what you mean about being about to get the 20 they want even will the restriction, I just don't have to like it. Although it still doesn't affect me.

xflyer

First off I've no idea if Aer Lingus is doing anything like this. But in certain public sector jobs for example in the HSE. Points are allocated during the interview process. They may have several applicants suitable for the position. The job is offered to the top rated with the others receiving a letter stating their position on the panel. If the first person offered the job turns it down, it goes to number 2. If later on another vacancy comes up then it's offered to the next in line.

This happened to my wife. She failed to get the job initially but was placed on the panel. A few months later she was offered the job when another vacancy came up.

It would be logical for Aer Lingus to have something similar in this case.

Tenger that's the problem with this business, it's a lot easier to become a pilot if you have money behind you. I don't like it either.

handsomecake

Railjon wrote: »

If you were to make it an aviation-based exercise then those with flying hours/experience could be at an advantage

And so they should have an advantage- that's my point. Why are people punished for being dispatchers or engineers or ops controllers or have flying hours. God forbid someone who is interested in aviation tries to get a pilot job. They have shown more interest then say someone who went off and got a degree in an another field and decided to " throw their hat in the ring" when they saw it in the paper.

The questions should most certainly be based on aviation in my opinion.

el tel

I don't understand why there is dislike of the fact that "it's a lot easier to become a pilot if you have money behind you".

Most thinks in life are easier to achieve with some capital.

Perhaps someone could explain the logic for this 'dislike'?

handsomecake

el tel wrote: »

I don't understand why there is dislike of the fact that "it's a lot easier to become a pilot if you have money behind you".

Most thinks in life are easier to achieve with some capital.

Perhaps someone could explain the logic for this 'dislike'?

I suppose it's one of those careers that a lot of people can't get in to on merit.
If you get 600 in the leaving you can be a doctor, you might need 10 k for college but it's much more doable then 100k for a pilot.

You could get 600 in the leaving and be poor. You have no money to be a pilot but are quite intelligent

xflyer

It's simple enough el tel. Back in the day when Aer Lingus sponsored the training. It didn't matter if you or your parents had access to money. You got in on merit. Now it's merit and money. It means perfectly suitable candidates will be excluded. Indeed several may not even have applied for that very reason.

It would have excluded the 20 year old me for example. My parents would never have been able to raise the money and neither would I.

Having money, usually from parents gives many a young pilot a leg up in the career stakes. Without money you have to spend years scrimping and saving and sacrificing before you get there, assuming you ever do.

It's not fair, even if thats the way of things. Life is unfair.

But you don't have to like it.

Railjon

handsomecake wrote: »

And so they should have an advantage- that's my point. Why are people punished for being dispatchers or engineers or ops controllers or have flying hours. God forbid someone who is interested in aviation tries to get a pilot job. They have shown more interest then say someone who went off and got a degree in an another field and decided to " throw their hat in the ring" when they saw it in the paper.

The questions should most certainly be based on aviation in my opinion.

1. OK, you missed my point but maybe I wasn't being clear. 'They' have that advantage by submitting the application form with XX hours in XX aircraft or XX years in dispatching/what have you. After that it's a level playing field.

2. God does not forbid those in aviation from getting into this course - a French guy in my session had a CPL and many hours (dont know the specifics).

3. There is no such thing as Joe Bloggs throwing the hat in the ring when said someone has to cough up E50,000.

4. Some people (definitely not all) seem to think that if they have a PPL or more they have a god-given right to be still in the running for this selection scheme. I've seen, like I said, guys (and gals) with licenses and hours come through and maybe the differential is ... you?

railjon

Tightwad

While on the topic of having flying experience/licence and being offered a place on the EI cadet programme, there was a candidate in our assessment who had a PPL,NR, 150+hours and all ATPLs completed. They were told "you would have to start from the beginning" which of course means pay for it all again. So they really want to mould you right from the beginning.
Previous experience and any licences one may have obtained already hold little value other than a demonstration of interest and determination etc.

dubberdo

Tightwad wrote: »

While on the topic of having flying experience/licence and being offered a place on the EI cadet programme, there was a candidate in our assessment who had a PPL,NR, 150+hours and all ATPLs completed. They were told "you would have to start from the beginning" which of course means pay for it all again. So they really want to mould you right from the beginning.
Previous experience and any licences one may have obtained already hold little value other than a demonstration of interest and determination etc.

It's not to do with moulding you from the beginning. It's a regulatory requirement that an integrated course be conducted in a certain manner. JAR says you may be discounted 20 hrs if you have PPL and it's agreeable with the CFI. If it was a case of moulding then Aer Lingus wouldn't take on Direct Entries at all. Although, they will want to see training records from every stage I imagine no matter who you are or what route you took.

Tightwad

I stand corrected.

xflyer

They were told "you would have to start from the beginning"

I wouldn't mind that . I could sail through the ground school because it would just be revision while everyone around me sweated it out. I could then learn how to fly properly. My original flight instruction was very poor. The only problem would be trying to unlearn bad habits and I imagine the Instructor would expect a constant high standard. If you could leave your ego out of it. It would be fun.

But that's the problem and in all probability pilots with more than a few hours might not be selected because of that risk.

BigBirdie

Bit of a random question. My brother is also considering becoming a pilot and has been looking into it recently. He read somewhere that there is a height restriction, and as he is 6ft 4in he's concerned! Does anyone know if this is fact or fiction?

Tirty_3

At a recent interview for the BA FPP I was asked if I was over 6ft 3 inches. I think that this is the height restriction for BA, not sure how that compares to other carries.

BigBirdie

Tirty_3 wrote: »

At a recent interview for the BA FPP I was asked if I was over 6ft 3 inches. I think that this is the height restriction for BA, not sure how that compares to other carries.

Thanks for that. I gave the tried and trusted google method a go to get info but it was patchy at best. I guess he'll just have to hope that that height is not the general limit.

antonov225

Aer Lingus' promotional emails are driving me crazy. Every time I open my inbox and see AL my heart jumps for a second before I see the '4 day sale' et cetera

Contrails

antonov225 wrote: »

Aer Lingus' promotional emails are driving me crazy. Every time I open my inbox and see AL my heart jumps for a second before I see the '4 day sale' et cetera

Awh stop man. I was chillin out at the airport when the phone buzzed and i saw aer lingus in the title... Its a killer

Jed and Dave

just wondering on the selection process-

are you scored on every stage on the process and the 20 with the highest cumulatve score at the end are the chosen few?

or

the highest performers from each stage get through and then its a clean slate?

diego_b

No idea but for fairness sake it should be the former so the highest cumalative score I'd suggest.

BigBirdie

I doubt they could do that.. Why then would there be 2 interviews? Having said that I don't know.

Tightwad

I doubt they could do what BigBirdie?

Am I right in thinking there are another two interviews then the medical?

Or one more interview them Medical?

BigBirdie

Tightwad wrote: »

I doubt they could do what BigBirdie?

Am I right in thinking there are another two interviews then the medical?

Or one more interview them Medical?

Doubt they would take a cumulative score of all stages, what Jed and Dave mentioned above.

Two more and then the medical as far as I remember.

Tightwad

Ah I see, thanks. But I am inclined to think they would take a cumulative score of all stages, but who knows. I say this because I would have thought the more detailed areas in the application would start to come into play along with the results from the online tests that will then be compared to the assessment performance. In my opinion it all integrates and cumulates as one progresses stage by stage. Maybe they build up a history of your overall performance.

A clean slate at each level seems very clear cut/simplistic especially when they seem to be investing so much time and man power on the selection process, which is a good thing of course!
I would have thought, if it was that clear cut we would know if we were through to the next stage by now, or not, because it would be a simple case of totting up the scores and sending out the emails.

Just my reasoning, but a load of speculation really.

Yes BigBirdie that’s what I was led to believe too. Re: two more interviews then med. cheers.

BigBirdie

Tightwad wrote: »

Ah I see, thanks. But I am inclined to think they would take a cumulative score of all stages, but who knows. I say this because I would have thought the more detailed areas in the application would start to come into play along with the results from the online tests that will then be compared to the assessment performance. In my opinion it all integrates and cumulates as one progresses stage by stage. Maybe they build up a history of your overall performance.

A clean slate at each level seems very clear cut/simplistic especially when they seem to be investing so much time and man power on the selection process, which is a good thing of course!

When you put it like that I reckon you are right actually, how could they not take it all into account. I reckon however that once you get to this interview, the online assessments etc become less important.

I don't think we will ever be able to fathom the inner workings of the brain that is AL HR!!

conor052001

Tightwad wrote: »

Am I right in thinking there are another two interviews then the medical?

Or one more interview them Medical?

out of interest does anyone know what the medical entails? simple enough or day long examination or what?

Tightwad

conor052001 wrote: »

out of interest does anyone know what the medical entails? simple enough or day long examination or what?

This will tell you all you nee to know..http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=49&pagetype=68&gid=211

Yea i think it takes the best part of a day, so I am told. I dont have a class one my self.

Contrails

I wouldnt call it simple exactly. But it is black and white. You're fit enough, or you're not. I had it done a year and a half ago in the Mater Private, a hefty €600 (now 650). If you pay it yourself (which you won't with Aer Lingus i'd imagine) it's an enormous amount to have spent to be told no. But if its a yes, you won't give a damn


An appointment at the Aeromedical Centre involves the following:

Completion of Application forms
Ophthalmology Examination
Electrocardiograph (E.C.G.)
Chest x-ray
Spirometry (pulmonary function tests)
Audiogram and examination by an Ear, Nose and Throat Consultant
Bloods to include Haemoglobin and Cholesterol – (if possible please fast for 12 – 14 hours prior to your medical – sips of water may be taken)
General medical examination, to include height, weight, blood pressure, urine analysis and full physical examination by the Aeromedical Examiner.

http://www.materprivate.ie/services-specialities/aeromedical/

edit: Think I was hanging around in there for a good 8 hours or so. Seemed to be a few delays though so it may have meant to be shorter

Mickey_D

Contrails wrote: »

If you pay it yourself (which you won't with Aer Lingus i'd imagine)

I was sure that you had to have your own medical if you got to the interview stage???

Tightwad

We were told that those who are successful at the next two interviews will get sent for a medical. Not sure if Aer Lingus will pay, i suppose it will come out of the circa 100,000 euro expence budget.