Russian president threatens return to Cold War

RobitTV

Russian president Dmitry Medvedev threatened Wednesday a return to the Cold War, saying the US decision to push ahead with a contested missile defense shield could prompt "retaliatory measures."

Moscow has been fighting NATO plans to deploy the system in Eastern Europe. The West sees it as protection from rogue nations such as Iran, but the Kremlin fears it could be used to attack Russia, AFP reported.

Links:
http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/europe/05/18/russia.nuclear.missiles/
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/international/russian_president_threatens_return_eA6De6Py9SS6xvq9tTrXUN

The King of Moo

*Dusts off "Two Tribes" record and list of Gorbachev-birthmark jokes*

Uriel.

The USA will do what they like. Red WMDs, the Kremlin housing Al-Queda, Air strikes on Moscow by Christmas. ... The world we live in....

jimthemental

A return would imply that they have moved on from the post WWII political and military posturing in the first place. There was a few years of a break with Yeltsin and that was it.

Saila

how can you have a cold war with global warming

jimthemental

Uriel. wrote: »

The USA will do what they like. Red WMDs, the Kremlin housing Al-Queda, Air strikes on Moscow by Christmas. ... The world we live in....

No they wont, because China, Russia, North Korea and now Pakistan also are there to bomb them back to a state where they will have to start evolution again from scratch.

EL_Loco

attacking Russia, now there's a silly thing to do. I thought we were all pals.

Sure are we not still in the scenario of mutually assured destruction anyway if someone does go intercontinental ballistic missile stylee?

orourkeda

The King of Moo wrote: »

*Dusts off "Two Tribes" record and list of Gorbachev-birthmark jokes*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTOQUnvI3CA

orourkeda

Saila wrote: »

how can you have a cold war with global warming

It's climate change

Conor108

Watched a documentary the other day called 'Countdown to Zero'. This kinda reminded me of it, really good!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mn-1LuLhrw

orourkeda

The King of Moo wrote: »

*Dusts off "Two Tribes" record and list of Gorbachev-birthmark jokes*

Its still the best song ever

Show Time

Duck and cover time.

Manic Moran

I thought that after they had changed the form of the missile defence shield, that the Russians had decided they were OK with the new version?

They change their mind again?

NTM

orourkeda

Another cold war. This is gonna be deadly

Saila

orourkeda wrote: »

It's climate change

same same..

The King of Moo

Coincidence? I don't think so!! :eek:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056272708

Conor108

Pretty sure this is the plotline to Modern Warfare 3 so I'm gonna put this down to some INTENSE viral marketing from Activision

Saila

Show Time wrote: »

Duck and cover time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lmx1vMouUt8

hardCopy

EL_Loco wrote: »

attacking Russia, now there's a silly thing to do. I thought we were all pals.

Sure are we not still in the scenario of mutually assured destruction anyway if someone does go intercontinental ballistic missile stylee?

As I understand it, this would end MAD. If the US build a defense shield they can fire all the missiles they like at Russia without fear of retaliation.

RHJ

This post has been deleted.

Sanjuro

Recession, Cold War, Duran Duran reforming, these revisionist history pricks who claim the 80s were so great are going too far. Next they'll be reanimating the corpse of Reagan and trying reinstate the Thatcherite government. We're all ****ed.

EL_Loco

hardCopy wrote: »

As I understand it, this would end MAD. If the US build a defense shield they can fire all the missiles they like at Russia without fear of retaliation.

ah right. Looking at a map I can see why the Russians might be suspicious of a "defense" battery in Poland for example. Wouldn't do very much for a missile from Iran, or at least, there are other places closer to Iran within europe for the first line of defense.

Iran just used as example because it was mentioned earlier.

The King of Moo

RHJ wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

*crosses fingers* Come onnn, teleportation!!

user1842

Who cares what the Russians say. They are a joke of a nation. If anyone knew in the cold war days how backward they were, the US would have mopped the floor with them.

The only thing they were good at was covering up their antiquated technology.

I would be surprised if their ICBM's even still work, the valve electronics in them are probably broken.

enfant terrible

Sanjuro wrote: »

Recession, Cold War, Duran Duran reforming, these revisionist history pricks who claim the 80s were so great are going too far. Next they'll be reanimating the corpse of Reagan and trying reinstate the Thatcherite government. We're all ****ed.

Reagan was awesome.

Why can't the Russians build their own shield.

Sanjuro

enfant terrible wrote: »

Reagan was awesome.

Why can't the Russians build their own shield.

He absolutely was not. The financial shitstorm the world is experiencing right now can be traced back to his administration and their ludicrous ideas of deregulation. The guy was an idiot surrounded by the worst kind of politicians.

Also, this notion that he ended the cold war is a fallacy. The Communist system was collapsing anyway. Reagan just happened to be in power when it finally did collapse. Yet Republicans still say it was a victory for them. Idiots.

Rented Mule

Warren Zevon released this in 1980.

Nuclear arms in the Middle East
Israel is attacking the Iraqis
The Syrians are mad at the Lebanese
And Baghdad does whatever she please
Looks like another threat to world peace
For the envoy

Things got hot in El Salvador
CIA got caught and couldn't do no more
He's got diplomatic immunity
He's got a lethal weapon that nobody sees
Looks like another threat to world peace
For the envoy
Send the envoy
Send the envoy

Whenever there's a crisis
The President sends his envoy in
Guns in Damascus
Woa, Jerusalem

Nuclear arms in the Middle East
Israel is attacking the Iraqis
The Syrians are mad at the Lebanese
And Baghdad do whatever she please
Looks like another threat to world peace
For the envoy
Send the envoy . . .
Send for me

dizzywizlw

This hasn't been news since 2007, I remember Putin saying the exact same thing.

Russia is a decrepit disease ridden alcoholic of a nation, the can bully Georgia and Estonia but they'd get a hiding off any of the 'Great Powers'.

enfant terrible

Sanjuro wrote: »

He absolutely was not. The financial shitstorm the world is experiencing right now can be traced back to his administration and their ludicrous ideas of deregulation. The guy was an idiot surrounded by the worst kind of politicians.

Also, this notion that he ended the cold war is a fallacy. The Communist system was collapsing anyway. Reagan just happened to be in power when it finally did collapse. Yet Republicans still say it was a victory for them. Idiots.

Wild guess here you don't like Republicans.

Sanjuro

enfant terrible wrote: »

Wild guess here you don't like Republicans.

I don't like most political parties. The American ones are especially rubbish.

mike65

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ga_rCnueID8

phoenix0250

Russia is a decrepit disease ridden alcoholic of a nation

Who cares what the Russians say. They are a joke of a nation. If anyone knew in the cold war days how backward they were, the US would have mopped the floor with them.

The only thing they were good at was covering up their antiquated technology.

I would be surprised if their ICBM's even still work, the valve electronics in them are probably broken.

You people have clearly not been to, nor studied anything about Russia. Its a common western stereotype due to all the farce we are fed in the media and american films that have make you delusional. Moscow is by far the single best city i have been in, yes the country does have problems due to the chaos of the 90's but is will soon recover.

Most russians are extremely kind, generous, amiable and benevolent once you know them as they are distant to strangers. All the negative things happening in the country are by people similar to our local scumbags and knackers.

And for all you haters and xenophobic, racist and nebbish people, no i am not russian nor polish nor foreign. I am indeed Irish, I happen to study Russian in college and frankly am tired of the plethora of people hating foreigners in our nation due to misinformation and false stereotypes. That is all.

JohnMarston

RobitTV wrote: »

Russian president Dmitry Medvedev threatened Wednesday a return to the Cold War, saying the US decision to push ahead with a contested missile defense shield could prompt "retaliatory measures."

He needs to 'chill out'. :pac:

.........i'll get me coat

Calibos

Sanjuro wrote: »

Recession, Cold War, Duran Duran reforming, these revisionist history pricks who claim the 80s were so great are going too far. Next they'll be reanimating the corpse of Reagan and trying reinstate the Thatcherite government. We're all ****ed.

.....and heavy snow 3 years in a row, Doing well in the Eurovision again, IRA group killing and planting bombs again. Would you believe I even saw white dog sh1t the other day too. Its gettin' scary I tells ya!!

dmclean1842 wrote: »

Who cares what the Russians say. They are a joke of a nation. If anyone knew in the cold war days how backward they were, the US would have mopped the floor with them.

The only thing they were good at was covering up their antiquated technology.

I would be surprised if their ICBM's even still work, the valve electronics in them are probably broken.

The Russian bear has a habit of bitin' you on the ass when you underestimate him, just ask that Austrian Fella.

Herb Powell

phoenix0250 wrote: »

You people have clearly not been to, nor studied anything about Russia. Its a common western stereotype due to all the farce we are fed in the media and american films that have make you delusional. Moscow is by far the single best city i have been in, yes the country does have problems due to the chaos of the 90's but is will soon recover.

Most russians are extremely kind, generous, amiable and benevolent once you know them as they are distant to strangers. All the negative things happening in the country are by people similar to our local scumbags and knackers.

And for all you haters and xenophobic, racist and nebbish people, no i am not russian nor polish nor foreign. I am indeed Irish, I happen to study Russian in college and frankly am tired of the plethora of people hating foreigners in our nation due to misinformation and false stereotypes. That is all.

'суп нігга? сіріллік фукін ойз. ій но діс іс інгліш, бут хоо кайрз?
lol I love cyrillic

user1842

phoenix0250 wrote: »

You people have clearly not been to, nor studied anything about Russia. Its a common western stereotype due to all the farce we are fed in the media and american films that have make you delusional. Moscow is by far the single best city i have been in, yes the country does have problems due to the chaos of the 90's but is will soon recover.

Most russians are extremely kind, generous, amiable and benevolent once you know them as they are distant to strangers. All the negative things happening in the country are by people similar to our local scumbags and knackers.

And for all you haters and xenophobic, racist and nebbish people, no i am not russian nor polish nor foreign. I am indeed Irish, I happen to study Russian in college and frankly am tired of the plethora of people hating foreigners in our nation due to misinformation and false stereotypes. That is all.

I wasnt talking about the Russian people, I am talking about their supposed military prowess during the cold war. Which was total bull****. The Americans were about 10 years ahead of them in all aspects of warfare expect for physical numbers and still are. There are loads of books now on the subject.

Did you not hear the story of the Americans shooting down an Soviet plan in the 80's and actually find old radio valves controlling the flight systems. They could not believe it.

dizzywizlw

phoenix0250 wrote: »

You people have clearly not been to, nor studied anything about Russia. Its a common western stereotype due to all the farce we are fed in the media and american films that have make you delusional. Moscow is by far the single best city i have been in, yes the country does have problems due to the chaos of the 90's but is will soon recover.

Most russians are extremely kind, generous, amiable and benevolent once you know them as they are distant to strangers. All the negative things happening in the country are by people similar to our local scumbags and knackers.

And for all you haters and xenophobic, racist and nebbish people, no i am not russian nor polish nor foreign. I am indeed Irish, I happen to study Russian in college and frankly am tired of the plethora of people hating foreigners in our nation due to misinformation and false stereotypes. That is all.

I never said anything about the Russian people at all so firstly, remove the sand from your private area.

Now let me elaborate as to why you are utterly wrong about the potential of Russia to recover from its problems;

A) The lobsided and weak economy that is only dragged to growth by the national champions, Gazprom United Aircraft and Rozneft. Lack of comparable high-technology and service lead growth

B)The presence of the Siloviki with the Kremlin and the persistent presence of oligarchic tendencies and corruption

C) The cost of military modernisation and the time scale that it will take to reformed the armed force of the Russian Federation will in no way shape of form lead to a Russian military resurgence within 25 years maybe more

D)The high rates of diseases such as AIDS and Alcoholism within Russian society

C)poor infrastructure

D)poor development in other senses, 60 places below this country and less developed than Albania!

E)The extreme demographic decline, particularly in the far eastern region.



Verifiable facts good sir, do not call into question my knowledge of a subject of which you clearly have a stilted and biased view as an admitted Russophobe.

The Russian state is not a superpower and it is a far way away from being so, it is most certainly a disease ridden excuse for a country.

Mike 1972

dmclean1842 wrote: »

Did you not hear the story of the Americans shooting down an Soviet plan in the 80's and actually find old radio valves controlling the flight systems. They could not believe it.

Did you not hear the full story ?

Seemingly the Soviets had done a lot of research into the phenomenon of EMP -the process wherby high altitude nuclear explosions can fry semiconductor based electronics over a radius of several thousand kilometres. They found valve based electronics to display a surprising degree of immunity to such effects hence their widespread use in Soviet (and Eastern bloc) military hardware.

The Soviets were using transistors in their civilian radio and television industries since the late sixties.

As for SDI/star wars/NMD/whatever-they-call-it-this-week it was technically unworkable in the 1980's and still is today. At best its only capable of stopping a small percentage of long range missiles and is totally useless against short range and submarine based missiles.

As a world power Russia (and perhaps one or two former USSR republics) have the potential to stage something of a comeback by virtue of their massive oil and gas resources if they can get their $hit together in other respects.

jim69

patton had the right idea in 1945.sort out the russians while they were all in one place after ve day. would be a lot less in post office dole queues if he got go ahead

doolox

It looks as if history is repeating itself. The only big event that finally "solved" the 1930's depression was the build up through increasing protectionism, nationalism and fear-mongering towards and armed preparation for War. This bloodletting resulted in c. 60 million deaths but in the post-war period it led to a complete restructuring of the world economy and the cold war setup.

The collapse of the Iron curtain and the resultant shift in world politics is still ongoing and will result in a huge transfer of wealth, influence and power from the West to the new powers of China, India and to a lesser extent South America and Africa.

paky

doolox wrote: »

It looks as if history is repeating itself. The only big event that finally "solved" the 1930's depression was the build up through increasing protectionism, nationalism and fear-mongering towards and armed preparation for War. This bloodletting resulted in c. 60 million deaths but in the post-war period it led to a complete restructuring of the world economy and the cold war setup.

The collapse of the Iron curtain and the resultant shift in world politics is still ongoing and will result in a huge transfer of wealth, influence and power from the West to the new powers of China, India and to a lesser extent South America and Africa.

sadly, i think its likely.

user1842

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Did you not hear the full story ?

Seemingly the Soviets had done a lot of research into the phenomenon of EMP -the process wherby high altitude nuclear explosions can fry semiconductor based electronics over a radius of several thousand kilometres. They found valve based electronics to display a surprising degree of immunity to such effects hence their widespread use in Soviet (and Eastern bloc) military hardware.

The Soviets were using transistors in their civilian radio and television industries since the late sixties.

As for SDI/star wars/NMD/whatever-they-call-it-this-week it was technically unworkable in the 1980's and still is today. At best its only capable of stopping a small percentage of long range missiles and is totally useless against short range and submarine based missiles.

As a world power Russia (and perhaps one or two former USSR republics) have the potential to stage something of a comeback by virtue of their massive oil and gas resources if they can get their $hit together in other respects.

You have to be joking me, the US military put out the stupid EMP story so they could secure their ridiculous military budget for years too come.

O those crafty Russians using valves to outwit our EMP's. Please congress we need more money to outwit there super futuristic valves. Reality was that the Russian military were backward.

If the truth were actually know in the 80's about the USSR the US military budget would be halved.

Also do some research on EMP's. For them to do actual damage to transistors your would have to be within the blast radius of the nuke. I would not be worrying about transistors then.

Only magnetic storage would be affect at a large radius and they are not used in military aircraft.

It would be different if the plane was earthed to the ground.

Mike 1972

dmclean1842 wrote: »

O those crafty Russians using valves to outwit our EMP's.

Ebay is full of Soviet manufactured transistor radios from as far back as the 1960's

Given that in both the East and West the military got the cream of what cutting edge technology was available it is ridiculous to conclude that any military usage of valve technology in the 1980's was down to backwardness when Soviet civilian manufacturing had adopted semiconductor technology two decades earlier.

The East Germans were among the first countries in the world open a plant manufacturing one megabit memory chips. by the mid 1980's Several Eastern bloc countries were producing home computers (albeit in small quantities and based on knockoffs of Western designs)

Technologically they were (in most respects) behind the west but not as far behind as commonly imagined.

marcsignal

Threads

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdWui5Gia_0

Protect and Survive

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Pb-ak37_RA

user1842

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Ebay is full of Soviet manufactured transistor radios from as far back as the 1960's

Given that in both the East and West the military got the cream of what cutting edge technology was available it is ridiculous to conclude that any military usage of valve technology in the 1980's was down to backwardness when Soviet civilian manufacturing had adopted semiconductor technology two decades earlier.

The East Germans were among the first countries in the world open a plant manufacturing one megabit memory chips.

Do some research. Straight from wiki:

Older, vacuum tube (valve) based equipment is generally much less vulnerable to EMP than newer solid state equipment. Soviet Cold War–era military aircraft often had avionics based on vacuum tubes due both to limitations in Soviet solid-state capabilities and a belief that the vacuum-tube gear would survive better.[1]

[1]^ a b c Broad, William J. "Nuclear Pulse (I): Awakening to the Chaos Factor," Science. 29 May 1981 212: 1009–1012

If you keep reading you will see that vacuum tube components are rubbish against EMP's too but why didnt the great Russian's realised this?

Although vacuum tubes are far more resistant to EMP than solid state devices, other components in vacuum tube circuitry can be damaged by EMP. Vacuum tube equipment actually was damaged in 1962 nuclear EMP testing.[14] Also, the solid state PRC-77 VHF manpackable 2-way radio survived extensive EMP testing.[25] The earlier PRC-25, nearly identical except for a vacuum tube final amplification stage, had been tested in EMP simulators but was not certified to remain fully functional.


And just to confirm, military usage of vaccum tube tech in the 80's was backward. No question.

And my Dad could make a transistor radio in the 60's, ebay full of soviet radios means nothing

Mike 1972

dmclean1842 wrote: »

Also do some research on EMP's. For them to do actual damage to transistors your would have to be within the blast radius of the nuke. I would not be worrying about transistors then.

dmclean1842 wrote: »

Although vacuum tubes are far more resistant to EMP than solid state devices, other components in vacuum tube circuitry can be damaged by EMP. Vacuum tube equipment actually was damaged in 1962 nuclear EMP testing.

Contradict yourself much ?

Is EMP a threat or isint it ?

user1842

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Contradict yourself much ?

Is EMP a threat or isint it ?

No contradiction at all. The vacuum tubes were damaged by the EMP but also the test was done with-in the bast radius of the nuclear explosion.

So for the EMP to do damage to an Aircraft (tube or chip). You need to be in the bast radius of the Nuke. Kinda defeats the purpose of an EMP.

The Russians would have know this so why use vacuum tubes in their planes.

Well I thing you know the answer.

Mike 1972

dmclean1842 wrote: »

The Russians would have know this so why use vacuum tubes in their planes.

Well I thing you know the answer.

Not out of technological backwardness given that Soviet civilian industry (including Airlines such as Aeroflot) had solid state technology for at least two decades.

Anyway Im not going to drag this thread off on a tangent by continuing this discussion.

user1842

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Not out of technological backwardness given that Soviet civilian industry (including Airlines such as Aeroflot) had solid state technology for at least two decades.

Anyway Im not going to drag this thread off on a tangent by continuing this discussion.

How is it dragging it off topic.

I am saying that Russia was never technically capable after the 1970's of a cold war with the US and this is true to this date.

You are saying otherwise.

The Soviets were great at spying though, its how they got the A and H bombs.

There is a great book on this, when I get back to Ireland I will post the title (cant remember it now).

Scuid Mhór

RobitTV wrote: »

Russian president Dmitry Medvedev threatened Wednesday a return to the Cold War, saying the US decision to push ahead with a contested missile defense shield could prompt "retaliatory measures."

Moscow has been fighting NATO plans to deploy the system in Eastern Europe. The West sees it as protection from rogue nations such as Iran, but the Kremlin fears it could be used to attack Russia, AFP reported.

Links:
http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/europe/05/18/russia.nuclear.missiles/
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/international/russian_president_threatens_return_eA6De6Py9SS6xvq9tTrXUN

And then, to everyone's surprise, nothing happened.

YFlyer

The King of Moo wrote: »

*Dusts off "Two Tribes" record and list of Gorbachev-birthmark jokes*

Relax!