Gerry Adams to run for President ?

Happyman42

oscarBravo wrote: »

OK, let's try this then: there is an argument for getting rid of all ballot boxes and replacing them with universal postal votes (which is how the Seanad is currently elected).

Would you be in favour of doing this if you were asked to vote on it in the morning?

I honestly don't know, like any election, I would have to weigh the pros and cons as put to me by experts.

Godge

Happyman42 wrote: »

I honestly don't know, like any election, I would have to weigh the pros and cons as put to me by experts.

Hang on, if postal voting is good enough for electing the President, why isn't it good enough for electing the Dail or a referendum on Irish unity?

double standards here.

oscarBravo

Happyman42 wrote: »

I honestly don't know, like any election, I would have to weigh the pros and cons as put to me by experts.

...but you're already convinced that such cons as exist are outweighed by the pros of letting people in Northern Ireland vote?

In case you were curious, my answer to my own question is "not a hope in hell".

Mr Cumulonimbus

Godge wrote: »

Can you find one other example of where State 1 allowed State 2 to run an election on the territory of State 1 for election as Head of State for State 2?

None that I'm aware of, but the nearest example would be a judicial one with regards to the operation of the Scottish Court in the Netherlands where Camp Utrecht was temporarily declared as UK sovereign territory for the duration of this trial. The court operated from 1999 until 2002 when the land was returned to Dutch control.

pablomakaveli

Mr Cumulonimbus wrote: »

None that I'm aware of, but the nearest example would be a judicial one with regards to the operation of the Scottish Court in the Netherlands where Camp Utrecht was temporarily declared as UK sovereign territory for the duration of this trial. The court operated from 1999 until 2002 when the land was returned to Dutch control.

That wasn't for an election.

Mr Cumulonimbus

pablomakaveli wrote: »

That wasn't for an election.

I know. I said judicial example, (to clarify: a trial, not an election).

LordSutch

The old fella is nearly at retirement age now, so maybe we should leave him alone to walk off into the sunset and reflect on his past beret wearing exploits, which he may (or may not)? have been involved in

golfball37

LordSutch wrote: »

The old fella is nearly at retirement age now, so maybe we should leave him alone to walk off into the sunset and reflect on his past beret wearing exploits, which he may (or may not)? have been involved in

I'd say he was too sneaky to do any of the fighting. Always struck me as the type who'd get someone else to do his dirty work. You get the impression from Paisley and few others that they have far more respect for McGuinness as a person than Adams for this reason amongst others.

Crooked Jack

golfball37 wrote: »

I'd say he was too sneaky to do any of the fighting. Always struck me as the type who'd get someone else to do his dirty work. You get the impression from Paisley and few others that they have far more respect for McGuinness as a person than Adams for this reason amongst others.

So now you dont like him because he didn't kill anyone. Boards is hilarious.

SoulandForm

golfball37 wrote: »

I'd say he was too sneaky to do any of the fighting. Always struck me as the type who'd get someone else to do his dirty work. You get the impression from Paisley and few others that they have far more respect for McGuinness as a person than Adams for this reason amongst others.

But Paisley was also to sneaky to do his own killing- and went further in "disowning" it than Adams did.

Manassas61

Crooked Jack wrote: »

So now you dont like him because he didn't kill anyone. Boards is hilarious.

Well there is many different ways to skin a cat Jack.

Crooked Jack

Manassas61 wrote: »

Well there is many different ways to skin a cat Jack.

Id prefer to shave a pussy, so long as were talking in meaningless generalities

Manassas61

Crooked Jack wrote: »

Id prefer to shave a pussy, so long as were talking in meaningless generalities

The naivety when it comes to Gerry Adams from Republicans is funny and also disturbing. People just need to read into his history and the truth is there for anyone who wants it.

SoulandForm

Manassas61 wrote: »

The naivety when it comes to Gerry Adams from Republicans is funny and also disturbing. People just need to read into his history and the truth is there for anyone who wants it.

Actually I find Gerry Adams more than a little disturbing- I dont have any love for the man to put it mildly and I certainly dont trust him. However say what you want he is very much a product of the "Our Wee Country" and its circumstances.

All you seem to put forward is the Provisionals were all evil and "its our culture".

Manassas61

SoulandForm wrote: »

Actually I find Gerry Adams more than a little disturbing- I dont have any love for the man to put it mildly and I certainly dont trust him. However say what you want he is very much a product of the "Our Wee Country" and its circumstances.

All you seem to put forward is the Provisionals were all evil and "its our culture".

There is always an excuse. He won't last much longer in Sinn Fein, I give him another year or two at best.

Everyone seems to be excused for what they done, from Lenny Murphy and his thugs to Gerry Adams and Thomas Begley.

SoulandForm

Manassas61 wrote: »

There is always an excuse. He won't last much longer in Sinn Fein, I give him another year or two at best.

Everyone seems to be excused for what they done, from Lenny Murphy and his thugs to Gerry Adams and Thomas Begley.

The Shankhill Butchers had nothing to do with the Provisionals- however if you watched the documentary that came out recently enough on them presented by a unionist you will see that Belfast RUC does have serious questions to answer on their response to them.

Happyman42

Manassas61 wrote: »

There is always an excuse. He won't last much longer in Sinn Fein, I give him another year or two at best.

Everyone seems to be excused for what they done, from Lenny Murphy and his thugs to Gerry Adams and Thomas Begley.

He's out lasted many PM's Taoisigh, party leaders and politicians. In a party that is supposed to be full to the hilt of psychotic killers and blood thirsty loons that is quite an achievement.
While I'm no major fan of him or his party, this island would not be in relative peace and actually have a future, without him and his input. A serious and heavyweight intellect and political brain.
A stint as president would be a fitting end to his career.

Crooked Jack

Manassas61 wrote: »

The naivety when it comes to Gerry Adams from Republicans is funny and also disturbing. People just need to read into his history and the truth is there for anyone who wants it.

Where's the naivety? If he was indeed in the IRA that wouldn't change my opinion of him, I'd have even more respect for him if nothing else.
Im constantly baffled by unionist hatred of him in particular, I mean, it was his long term strategy that moved the IRA away from war. There were plenty within it would have been happy to fight on.

Crooked Jack

Manassas61 wrote: »

There is always an excuse. He won't last much longer in Sinn Fein, I give him another year or two at best.

Well he is a pensioner, but he'll be there until either he or Sinn Fein says otherwise.

Nodin

Crooked Jack wrote: »

Well he is a pensioner, but he'll be there until either he or Sinn Fein says otherwise.

Shouldn't hang on though. Look what happened the SDLP.

Manassas61

SoulandForm wrote: »

The Shankhill Butchers had nothing to do with the Provisionals- however if you watched the documentary that came out recently enough on them presented by a unionist you will see that Belfast RUC does have serious questions to answer on their response to them.

That is my point. We don't need to give credit to killers. Which include British Army soldiers who murdered innocent people.

SoulandForm

Manassas61 wrote: »

That is my point. We don't need to give credit to killers. Which include British Army soldiers who murdered innocent people.

Well dont.

But you are missing my main point-"Northern Ireland" has failed.

Now you might argue that it would have had a chance of working if it had been properly intergrated into the mainland UK in the 1920s, but the fact is that the mainland UK has its own concerns and its own dynamics which are increasingly pushing towards its possible break up at the most-increasing decentralization at the least. Now this is good for England, Scotland and Wales. However "Northern Ireland" is a completely different story.

The only possible solution to our problems is full intergration into the 26 counties. I cant see anything else.

SoulandForm

Manassas61 wrote: »

That is my point. We don't need to give credit to killers. Which include British Army soldiers who murdered innocent people.

Let God judge them.

The point is that circumstances of Northern Ireland gave birth to and fed the horrible violence that raged in the 70s, 80s and early 90s. We are not talking about a primarily moral problem like you would in the case of "serial killers" or whatever- though in the case of the Shankhill Butchers Im not so sure.

The fact that the overwhelming majority of the PIRA was prepared to put down its guns for so little should tell you something.

The continual Unionist MOPE about the Provos's campaign got tiresome a LONG time ago.

Manassas61

SoulandForm wrote: »

Well dont.

But you are missing my main point-"Northern Ireland" has failed.

Now you might argue that it would have had a chance of working if it had been properly intergrated into the mainland UK in the 1920s, but the fact is that the mainland UK has its own concerns and its own dynamics which are increasingly pushing towards its possible break up at the most-increasing decentralization at the least. Now this is good for England, Scotland and Wales. However "Northern Ireland" is a completely different story.

The only possible solution to our problems is full intergration into the 26 counties. I cant see anything else.

Northern Ireland hasn't failed because it is still a fully functioning state and because of the peace process, it is now in a new era to move forward. There could be a lot worse situations to be in like Greece.

And I don't think anyone will judge anyone, that is why people have a problem with them.

SoulandForm

Manassas61 wrote: »

Northern Ireland hasn't failed because it is still a fully functioning state and because of the peace process, it is now in a new era to move forward. There could be a lot worse situations to be in like Greece.

And I don't think anyone will judge anyone, that is why people have a problem with them.

In no way is Greece essentially in a worse situation- the state barely functions, and the fact you have to have mandatory coalition in order for it to function says it all really. The fleg movement has certainly brought Northern Ireland into new era- as has the reaction of the DUP too it. The continual economic decline and the complete failure to create a civic conciousness speaks of dire failure.

SoulandForm

Why have "Peace Walls" doubled since the GFA if the "Peace Process" is such a success and Northern Ireland is no longer a failed state?

You draw comfort from southern Partitionists who go on like Unionists about the Provies- but you forget or dont notice that they have no time for nordies full stop, and indeed probably in their heart of hearts dislike Unionists more than they dislike the Provies.

Manassas61

SoulandForm wrote: »

In no way is Greece essentially in a worse situation- the state barely functions, and the fact you have to have mandatory coalition in order for it to function says it all really. The fleg movement has certainly brought Northern Ireland into new era- as has the reaction of the DUP too it. The continual economic decline and the complete failure to create a civic conciousness speaks of dire failure.

Greece is bankrupt. Northern Ireland gets a block grant from Westminster. As a Republican, you obviously want Northern Ireland to form into big government from Dublin.

But the majority don't want that and currently support the peace process. The mandatory coalition will be on its way out soon enough and I hope for a parliamentary democracy set up to replace it and form a opposition.

That way the politicians would be forced to do things and not hide behind a mandatory coalition because ultimately they don't have to do anything as they know they will get voted back in anyway, regardless of the results they produce.

SoulandForm

Manassas61 wrote: »

But the majority don't want that and currently support the peace process. The mandatory coalition will be on its way out soon enough and I hope for a parliamentary democracy set up to replace it and form a opposition.

In all honesty think that the CNR population will tolerate DUP majority rule? The DUP appear on platforms with representives of the Belfast UVF even after they recently murdered a young Protestant girl and after the attempted pogrom they launched against the Short Strand. What the Golden Dawn are to Greece the DUP effectively are to Northern Ireland.

Manassas61

SoulandForm wrote: »

In all honesty think that the CNR population will tolerate DUP majority rule? The DUP appear on platforms with representives of the Belfast UVF even after they recently murdered a young Protestant girl and after the attempted pogrom they launched against the Short Strand. What the Golden Dawn are to Greece the DUP effectively are to Northern Ireland.

Golden Dawn are a far right neo Nazi party. They would not have black members in Golden Dawn. The DUP would welcome all races in the DUP. Its two completely different parties and ideologies.

DUP if they got majority rule would be held accountable and you would have the option of voting them out and Sinn Fein in as the majority party or UUP or SDLP or even Alliance if you want.

SoulandForm

Manassas61 wrote: »

Golden Dawn are a far right neo Nazi party. They would not have black members in Golden Dawn. The DUP would welcome all races in the DUP. Its two completely different parties and ideologies.

DUP if they got majority rule would be held accountable and you would have the option of voting them out and Sinn Fein in as the majority party or UUP or SDLP or even Alliance if you want.

Peter Robinson recently accused a fellow Unionist of selling land to Tea eggs as if it was terrible thing people should be ashamed. Ruth Patterson in the past complained about an attack on someone by asking why it was done seeing as the victim wasnt a Catholic or a member of an ethnic minority. The DUP also shared platforms with Billy Wright and attacked the UVF for trying to shut him up and stop his maddness at the time.