Homosexuality and The Bible

Asry

Quo Vadis wrote: »

So Jesus was well aware of the "sin of Sodom" that required God's judgment. (It wasn't "inhospitality" as some "pro-gay" theologians attempt to weakly argue....)

I hardly think the hospitality argument is a weak one by any means. There are simply two interpretations applicable to the Genesis story. One is sexual, and one is non-sexual. You don't have to be pro-LGBT to propound the non-sexual theory.

I myself would side with the hospitality argument, as I think that (prurient) orthodox Christian readers of the Bible read far too much about sex into the text than is necessary, sometimes to the extent of the neglect of the more important teachings of the Scriptures themselves [my own opinion. By 'more important', I refer to the life lessons of the parables, for example. The positive, and life-affirming lessons of the Scriptures].

The sexual argument lies in that the citizens of Sodom were soliticiting sex from Abraham's angelic guests.

The non-sexual argument focusses on the translation of the word for 'abomination', which apparently includes moral sins as well as purely sexual ones. For the sake of expediency [as my sentences are feeling very long-winded tonight ], I'm quoting from wikipedia, but will include its sources at the bottom of this post.

In the Gospel of Matthew (and corresponding verse) when Jesus warns of a worse judgment for some cities than Sodom, inhospitality is perceived by some as the sin, while others see it fundamentally being impenitence:
If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, shake the dust off your feet when you leave that home or town. I tell you the truth, it will be more bearable for Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town. --Matthew 10:14-15
The nonsexual view focuses on the cultural importance of hospitality, which this biblical story shares with other ancient civilizations, such as Greece and Rome, where hospitality was of singular importance and strangers were under the protection of the gods.
The orthodox position does not deny this important cultural aspect, but tends to see the refusal to repent as being the main issue behind Jesus's condemnation, with this being causative of the particular inhospitality shown by the cities Jesus referred to. In addition, they see the information regarding Sodom as best indicating that forced perverse sex was the specific means of inhospitality, and the primary physical sin of Sodom.

Sources:

Peck, Harry Thurston (1898). Harpers Dictionary of Classical Antiquities. New York: Harper and Brothers. Retrieved 2006-03-17.

http://rictornorton.co.uk/homopho2.htm [this website has a pro-LGBT bias, which shamelessly will support my argument :rolleyes:, but makes valid points if you cut through the rhetoric]

http://www.robgagnon.net/articles/homoBalchHBTReview2.pdf [this is an extract from a longer work, but nevertheless it's pretty cool]

Monty Burnz

Quo Vadis wrote: »

Excellent question.

Matthew 19:4-6
“Haven’t you read,” (Genesis 1:27) he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’ and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’? So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate.”

This is not about homosexuality.

Quo Vadis wrote: »

Genesis 1:27 "From the beginning He made them male and female, and the man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife and the two shall become one"

This was not said by Jesus.

Quo Vadis wrote: »

Matthew 10:15 -- "I tell you the truth, it will be more bearable for Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town."

also Matt 11:23; Luke 10:12; Luke 17:29

What has this to do with homosexuality? What is he referring to? And can you please make the link between homosexual sex and Sodom a little more clear please?

Quo Vadis wrote: »

Matthew 5:17-19 The Fulfillment of the Law
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

So is eating shellfish still on a par with male gay sex?

philologos

Wicknight wrote: »

Sorry, I meant the appeal was that Christians should be happy that gays get married because it stops un-married fornication. That was made by someone else to you. You are not in a position to say Oh ok yes lets do that, since as a Christian you are following what you believe is God's wishes, not deciding things yourself should be this way or that way.

Such a relationship from a Christian perspective wouldn't be considered to be a marriage in earnest. That's what I'm trying to say.

Zombrex

philologos wrote: »

Such a relationship from a Christian perspective wouldn't be considered to be a marriage in earnest. That's what I'm trying to say.

Yes I know

wolfsbane

Monty Burnz said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfsbane
Some things in the Bible are not so clear as others, and disputes will arise over the true meaning. but homosexuality is not one of them. No honest commentator could mistake what the OT and NT teach on the matter. Honest people might disagree with what it says, but will agree that it says it.

There is no wriggle-room on the matter.
So can you please tell me what Jesus said about homosexuality?

Jesus did not address homosexuality directly in His recorded words. Nor bestiality. He did speak of the only acceptable use of sex, marriage of man and woman. Outside that, celibacy is required:
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2019:1-12&version=NKJV

He also condemned sex outside marriage here:
Matthew 5:27 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ 28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

Matthew 15:18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and they defile a man. 19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies.

Jesus left the more detailed commandments for His apostles to deliver in His name:
Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.

John 16:12 “I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. 13 However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. 14 He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you. 15 All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He will take of Mine and declare it to you.

His apostles delivered His commandments, not their own ideas:
1 Corinthians 14:37 If anyone thinks himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things which I write to you are the commandments of the Lord.

Among those commandments and teaching are plain condemnations of homosexuality:
Romans 1:24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, 25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.

1 Corinthians 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.

And that has been the historic doctrine of the Church, both before and after the Reformation.

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1 Corinthians 6:18 Flee sexual immorality. Every sin that a man does is outside the body, but he who commits sexual immorality sins against his own body.