Trinity BEGGING for money

Fo Real

I was reading politics.ie when I noticed an ad at the bottom of the page aimed at Trinity graduates. I clicked on it, leading to this site. It contains four videos of Trinity students begging for donations to fund such charities as the Trinity Access Program, to allow "disadvantaged" kids into college. Can't get enough points or just couldn't be arsed studying? No problem, move into the council flats on Pearse St and you're guaranteed a place in Trinners.

As if working class people don't get enough money thrown at them in the form of grants and paid tuition fees. Ireland has become a socialist hellhole, subsidising the gravy train lifestyles of lazy slobs while punishing hard working taxpayers and entrepreneurs. And yet the college will still wastefully squander funds on needless expenses like class rep training and ethnic minority societies. Will the new Provost make the neccessary changes to balance the college budget? Doubtfully. Instead I predict another influx of "cash cow" students from Malaysia and India who don't integrate into college life at all. Can Trinity's rep fall any further?

Wolfe Tone

Not a fan of poorer people and foreigners then?

28064212

Fo Real wrote: »

No problem, move into the council flats on Pearse St and you're guaranteed a place in Trinners.

Except that's not true at all

Fo Real wrote: »

As if working class people don't get enough money thrown at them in the form of grants and paid tuition fees.

In case you hadn't noticed, middle and upper class get their tuition fees paid too

Fo Real wrote: »

Can Trinity's rep fall any further?

Yeah all them foreigners and poor people are just destroying Trinity's reputation

amacachi

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Not a fan of poorer people and foreigners then?

If you were in Trinity you'd see that the TAP is a joke in some cases. Equalising things is fine, giving someone an advantage because they're poor isn't.

Fo Real

@Wolfe Tone
1. You've replied so quick that you obviously haven't watched any of the videos.

2. You're not even a TCD student/alumnus. Are you just envious that the British founded the most successful univeristy in Ireland and that the Queen has chosen to grace us with her presence? Take your anti-Brit bashing elsewhere. You get your ass handed to you in every thread in AH.

Now back on topic.

amacachi

Fo Real wrote: »

Will the new Provost make the neccessary changes to balance the college budget?

How much of a deficit is TCD running?

Cavehill Red

Just to clarify:
Is your topic that you don't like universities fundraising, or is it that you don't like poor people, or is it that you wish Ireland was British?

amacachi

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Just to clarify:
Is your topic that you don't like universities fundraising, or is it that you don't like poor people, or is it that you wish Ireland was British?

Think it's brown people the OP doesn't like.

g'em

amacachi wrote: »

If you were in Trinity you'd see that the TAP is a joke in some cases.

What makes you say that?

Fo Real

amacachi wrote: »

How much of a deficit is TCD running?

"One election candidate (Prof Des Fitzgerald) suggested the college deficit could exceed €100 million within five years" from http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2011/0404/1224293735891.html

We're in bad shape, to put it lightly.

amacachi

g'em wrote: »

What makes you say that?

At least one specific case. Obviously not going to go into massive details about an individual on a public forum but it's sickening that someone who had the same reasons for TAP that I fall under has had so much thrown at them that I and many others haven't.

Wolfe Tone

Fo Real wrote: »

@Wolfe Tone
1. You've replied so quick that you obviously haven't watched any of the videos.

2. You're not even a TCD student/alumnus. Are you just envious that the British founded the most successful univeristy in Ireland and that the Queen has chosen to grace us with her presence? Take your anti-Brit bashing elsewhere. You get your ass handed to you in every thread in AH.

Now back on topic.

I've nothing against trinity at all.

amacachi

Fo Real wrote: »

"One election candidate (Prof Des Fitzgerald) suggested the college deficit could exceed €100 million within five years" from http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2011/0404/1224293735891.html

We're in bad shape, to put it lightly.

I think it'll be 200 million. Words are cheap.
Have you a link showing the deficit being run right now?

g'em

amacachi wrote: »

At least one specific case. Obviously not going to go into massive details about an individual on a public forum but it's sickening that someone who had the same reasons for TAP that I fall under has had so much thrown at them that I and many others haven't.

I don't know that there's anything "thrown at" TAP students, and the application process is fairly stringent. Fair enough if you feel hard done by that you didn't get accepted (did you apply?) but I can absolutely guarantee you that the vast, vast majority of people who do TAP are fighting their corners like any other prospective student and in many cases would never ever have had teh chance to attend Third Level education otherwise.

amacachi

g'em wrote: »

I don't know that there's anything "thrown at" TAP students, and the application process is fairly stringent. Fair enough if you feel hard done by that you didn't get accepted (did you apply?) but I can absolutely guarantee you that the vast, vast majority of people who do TAP are fighting their corners like any other prospective student and in many cases would never ever have had teh chance to attend Third Level education otherwise.

Extra time in exams, a year of dicking about before actually starting the course, extra help etc. As well as the reduced points obviously.

I didn't apply for TAP because I didn't know about it, I do know that I couldn't apply for HEAR though, apparently my school was removed from the eligible list the year before I started in TCD.

kthnxbai

Fo Real wrote: »

to allow "disadvantaged" kids into college. Can't get enough points or just couldn't be arsed studying?

As if working class people don't get enough money thrown at them in the form of grants and paid tuition fees. Ireland has become a socialist hellhole, subsidising the gravy train lifestyles of lazy slobs while punishing hard working taxpayers and entrepreneurs.

You are actually being completely ridiculous.

Not everyone who's on the access programme or that gets the grant is lazy/can't get enough points. I got 100 points more than I needed to get into my course. Sure, I didn't apply for the access scheme, because I didn't feel that I needed it, but I do get the maintenance grant.

I resent the fact that you claim that people who are on government grants get stuff "thrown" at them... If it weren't for the grant, there would be absolutely no way for me to go to college at all. I work just as hard as anyone else and I'm just as entitled to go to college as anyone else is.

There is a reason why the government pays my fees for me. It's because I can't. And just because I wasn't as lucky as someone else to be born into a family with slightly better circumstances does not mean I shouldn't have the same opportunites as someone else.

Stop being immature and have a bit of empathy for christ sake. It's not exactly easy trying to live on 25 quid a week.

g'em

amacachi wrote: »

Extra time in exams, a year of dicking about before actually starting the course, extra help etc. As well as the reduced points obviously.

Only students who are registered with the disability service get extra time. You're vetted thoroughly and only put on the register if a genuine reason exists that qualifies you, I can absolutely vouch for that.

And as for the year dicking about for a year, well I can 100% guarantee that's not the case. TAP students study full-time and sit Annual Examinations alongside all other Trinity students and are subject to the very same marking scheme, rules and regulations.

And reduced points?? Ha! Not a hope!

amacachi

kthnxbai wrote: »

There is a reason why the government pays my fees for me. It's because I can't. And just because I wasn't as lucky as someone else to be born into a family with slightly better circumstances does not mean I shouldn't have the same opportunites as someone else.

So someone else should have to pay?

KH25

I was in the TAP program, albeit the Liberties College arm of it, and I didn't just get anything thrown at me. I had to work hard for a year in order to get the grades necessary for me to have chance of getting the course I wanted. I went to a bad school and despite working as hard as I can I didn't get the points for the course I wanted. So just because of that I shouldn't have a shot at college? I'm in final year now so clearly I was more than able to hold my own, regardless of what the leaving cert said.

Now, I'll happily admit that the course is not perfect and there's many things that I think need to be changed but the course still does some good work. I have several friends who have completed the course and gone on to be very successful in their academic careers. Without programs like TAP a lot of people with great potential would have no chance at getting into college just because of their backgrounds or their leaving cert results.

amacachi

g'em wrote: »

Only students who are registered with the disability service get extra time. You're vetted thoroughly and only put on the register if a genuine reason exists that qualifies you, I can absolutely vouch for that.

And as for the year dicking about for a year, well I can 100% guarantee that's not the case. TAP students study full-time and sit Annual Examinations alongside all other Trinity students and are subject to the very same marking scheme, rules and regulations.

And reduced points?? Ha! Not a hope!

Well then someone who's on the access programme is full of shit and certainly seems to be financially pretty damn well-off.

kthnxbai

amacachi wrote: »

So someone else should have to pay?

Trust me, I will more than pay back the money in tax within a few years of me working

Or would you rather I didn't try to further myself whatsoever?

revz

I sort of agree with you on the TAP in a way, although your view would be a bit more extreme than mine. I'm all for giving disadvantaged students free grinds and stuff if they can't afford it. But throwing free points at them is completely unfair.
I went to a HEAR linked school, but didn't apply cos I think my parents earn too much. What do their jobs have to do with how intelligent I am?
I think it almost belittles people's intelligence just because they're from a disadvantaged area. We all sit the same exams.
(Basing this on a specific case I know of in which someone got around 80 points less than the requirement and still got in to the course.)

Like I said, completely fine with grants/tuition and that; that's needed. Just the points thing is what I have an issue with.

KH25

amacachi wrote: »

So someone else should have to pay?

So somebody should only be able to go to college based on their ability to pay?

Fo Real

To put this into context: The State owned company Bord Gáis decided to write off the debts of people who were in arrears and couldn't pay their gas bills. They got free gas, essentially. But what about the poor family who struggled to pay their bills every month, but lived frugally and still scraped enough money together to pay them. They are of course going to feel like suckers. The message this sends out is "refuse to pay your bills and you'll eventually be let off the hook." Link for those who don't read the papers

The same logic can be applied to those students who work part-time jobs to fund themselves through college and those who sit on their asses because they know they'll get a grant. I'll say it again - Ireland is a socialist hellhole. What other country has free third level education and pays out over €180 in dole every week?

amacachi

kthnxbai wrote: »

Trust me, I will more than pay back the money in tax within a few years of me working

Or would you rather I didn't try to further myself whatsoever?

Yes, I'd rather everyone sat around in a heroin haze the whole time. Such ridiculous questions don't further your point. A proper loans system would be the fairest way to do it and would probably level the playing field somewhat as a fair few parents would keep the cash for college rather than for secondary school.

revz wrote: »

I sort of agree with you on the TAP in a way, although your view would be a bit more extreme than mine. I'm all for giving disadvantaged students free grinds and stuff if they can't afford it. But throwing free points at them is completely unfair.
I went to a HEAR linked school, but didn't apply cos I think my parents earn too much. What do their jobs have to do with how intelligent I am?
I think it almost belittles people's intelligence just because they're from a disadvantaged area. We all sit the same exams.
(Basing this on a specific case I know of in which someone got around 80 points less than the requirement and still got in to the course.)

Like I said, completely fine with grants/tuition and that; that's needed. Just the points thing is what I have an issue with.

It's a sickner. My parents are unemployed and I don't see how that should affect my academic prowess.

KH25 wrote: »

So somebody should only be able to go to college based on their ability to pay?

Yup, that's what I said, well done.

bradyle

But the points is because in a disadvantaged area you are more likely to go to a worse school and so get worse points even if you have high ability...and once your there you have to pass all the same exam as those who didnt get in so if they aren't fit for it they'll drop out...


Oh and fo real what about people like me who are on the grant and still need to work everyweekend to go to college...am i still lazy...you cant say all people who get a grant are same as you cant say people who dont get a grant have to work harder...that is pure BS

kthnxbai

Fo Real wrote: »

The same logic can be applied to those students who work part-time jobs to fund themselves through college and those who sit on their asses because they know they'll get a grant. I'll say it again - Ireland is a socialist hellhole. What other country has free third level education and pays out over €180 in dole every week?

First of all, I do engineering. I have worked a part-time job as much as I can. Financially, college is still a huge struggle for me. I have worked every summer. I don't spend money mindlessly, I'm very careful about what I spend.

And feck off with your 180 quid a week. That's if you're on BTEA. The FULL grant for adjancent is 1300 quid a year.


You try living on 1300 a year ffs.

amacachi

Fo Real wrote: »

To put this into context: The State owned company Bord Gáis decided to write off the debts of people who were in arrears and couldn't pay their gas bills. They got free gas, essentially. But what about the poor family who struggled to pay their bills every month, but lived frugally and still scraped enough money together to pay them. They are of course going to feel like suckers. The message this sends out is "refuse to pay your bills and you'll eventually be let off the hook." Link for those who don't read the papers

The same logic can be applied to those students who work part-time jobs to fund themselves through college and those who sit on their asses because they know they'll get a grant. I'll say it again - Ireland is a socialist hellhole. What other country has free third level education and pays out over €180 in dole every week?

Fancy getting me a link showing the deficit TCD is currently running any time soon instead of some faux right-wing snippets of what you probably think is an argument?

amacachi

bradyle wrote: »

But the points is because in a disadvantaged area you are more likely to go to a worse school and so get worse points even if you have high ability...and once your there you have to pass all the same exam as those who didnt get in so if they aren't fit for it they'll drop out...

I think there were 10 people ended up doing honours maths out of about 120 in my year in 6th year, about 20 did foundation Irish and maths and at least 10 were exempted from Irish. I managed alright.

g'em

amacachi wrote: »

Well then someone who's on the access programme is full of shit and certainly seems to be financially pretty damn well-off.

I can't comment at all on anyone's financial status and in all honesty I don't know what kind of maintenance grant they have available to them, but I do know that grants have been massively reduced in recent years and it's tough for a lot of students to get by.

If these students are granted entry to college they are treated the very same way as any other student would be academically, in fact their TAP "status" is left behind as soon as they enter JF - no special treatment, no exceptions.

I'm sure there are students on the course that it's very arguable whose place could have been given to a more deserving case but for the majority they work hard to get on TAP, work hard to stay on it and work hard to get into college like any other student and they're completely on their own once they get there.

kthnxbai

amacachi wrote: »

I think there were 10 people ended up doing honours maths out of about 120 in my year in 6th year, about 20 did foundation Irish and maths and at least 10 were exempted from Irish. I managed alright.

Yeah, like I went to a **** school, but still did really well in my LC. I think she's just making the point that being from a disadvantaged area can make it more difficult to do well, just because you don't have the same facilities as some others may have.

Personally, I didn't apply for Access because I didn't WANT to get into my course on reduced points (not to mention that I also didn't really need it). But financially, I can't manage without help.

Tragedy

g'em wrote: »

Only students who are registered with the disability service get extra time. You're vetted thoroughly and only put on the register if a genuine reason exists that qualifies you, I can absolutely vouch for that.

And as for the year dicking about for a year, well I can 100% guarantee that's not the case. TAP students study full-time and sit Annual Examinations alongside all other Trinity students and are subject to the very same marking scheme, rules and regulations.

And reduced points?? Ha! Not a hope!

TAP has no points requirement to the best of my knowledge, HEAR has a lower points requirement.

TAP/HEAR students also seem to automatically get the magic full top-up maintenance grant(only available to mature students+disadvantaged backgrounds)+student assistance fund. €9,000 per year for teenagers while still living at home wasn't unheard of a couple of years back(though the top-up has been cut a decent amount). There's also 11 scholarships for TAP students(most are €1,000) and a special TAP hardship fund.

Funding for Mature Students/'Poor' Students...actually, funding for students full stop has always been a joke. Zero fairness and a distinct lack of transparency in it.

*I'm a JF mature student who got nowhere near the points required for his course, is receiving free fees and Back to Education Allowance. If I had have entered college in 2009, I would have been eligible for: Full top-up maintenance grant(€6,600) and BTEA(€10,812) and probably the Student Assitance Fund and definitely rent allowance.

amacachi

g'em wrote: »

I can't comment at all on anyone's financial status and in all honesty I don't know what kind of maintenance grant they have available to them, but I do know that grants have been massively reduced in recent years and it's tough for a lot of students to get by.

If these students are granted entry to college they are treated the very same way as any other student would be academically, in fact their TAP "status" is left behind as soon as they enter JF - no special treatment, no exceptions.

I'm sure there are students on the course that it's very arguable whose place could have been given to a more deserving case but for the majority they work hard to get on TAP, work hard to stay on it and work hard to get into college like any other student and they're completely on their own once they get there.

Sorry, just out of interest, is the access programme just the foundation year thing and that's it? How is their getting into JF then decided, is it purely on LC points? If so what exactly is the point of the foundation year?
Genuine questions btw because the TAP website is leaving me baffled as to what they do.

R P McMurphy

Strange accusations on this thread, some people would be better suited to driving taxis

revz

bradyle wrote: »

But the points is because in a disadvantaged area you are more likely to go to a worse school and so get worse points even if you have high ability...and once your there you have to pass all the same exam as those who didnt get in so if they aren't fit for it they'll drop out...


Oh and fo real what about people like me who are on the grant and still need to work everyweekend to go to college...am i still lazy...you cant say all people who get a grant are same as you cant say people who dont get a grant have to work harder...that is pure BS

I forgot to mention, the case of the student who got into the course 80 points lower went to my school. The student was in the year ahead of me though, and plenty of my friends also got free points.

We had the same teachers, same exams, had the same amount of time to study. No "worse" school in this situation.
"If they aren't fit they'll drop out", in a points system where there's only a certain amount of places for each course, that's completely unfair. Someone who has proved they are academically capable of the course (Well, kind of...) through working hard and doing well in the leaving cert should be given the place. The free points is a joke.

amacachi

kthnxbai wrote: »

Yeah, like I went to a **** school, but still did really well in my LC. I think she's just making the point that being from a disadvantaged area can make it more difficult to do well, just because you don't have the same facilities as some others may have.

Personally, I didn't apply for Access because I didn't WANT to get into my course on reduced points (not to mention that I also didn't really need it). But financially, I can't manage without help.

It can make it more difficult to do well but I guarantee you that if when I was 13 or 14 and my family from then on had been better off I almost certainly wouldn't have gotten near college.

Tragedy wrote: »

TAP has no points requirement to the best of my knowledge, HEAR has a lower points requirement.

TAP/HEAR students also seem to automatically get the magic full top-up maintenance grant(only available to mature students+disadvantaged backgrounds)+student assistance fund. €9,000 per year for teenagers while still living at home wasn't unheard of a couple of years back(though the top-up has been cut a decent amount).

Funding for Mature Students/'Poor' Students...actually, funding for students full stop has always been a joke. Zero fairness and a distinct lack of transparency in it.

*I'm a JF mature student who got nowhere near the points required for his course, is receiving free fees and Back to Education Allowance. If I had have entered college in 2009, I would have been eligible for: Full top-up maintenance grant(€6,600) and BTEA(€10,812) and probably the Student Assitance Fund and definitely rent allowance.

9k for a teenager? Though the highest the grant went to was about 7k. I was also massively sickened to be a year too late to be able to get both the BTEA and the grant. :pac:

KH25

amacachi wrote: »

Yes, I'd rather everyone sat around in a heroin haze the whole time. Such ridiculous questions don't further your point. A proper loans system would be the fairest way to do it and would probably level the playing field somewhat as a fair few parents would keep the cash for college rather than for secondary school.

It's a sickner. My parents are unemployed and I don't see how that should affect my academic prowess.

Yup, that's what I said, well done.

Your parents' financial status shouldn't effect your academic career but sadly thats how it works over here. The more money you have the easier it is; you get the best education and you can afford the best universities.

As for leveling the playing field, third level should just be free to all who can attain the standards. But again, the system is set up in such a way that not only do you need the standards, you also need the money. What would be better would be a complete overhaul of the education system which removes private schools so that there is indeed a level playing field. If everybody was obtaining the same level of education and had the exact requirements to fulfill then there'd be no problem but thats not the case and thats why we need grants and programs like HEAR and TAP.

bradyle

amacachi wrote: »

I think there were 10 people ended up doing honours maths out of about 120 in my year in 6th year, about 20 did foundation Irish and maths and at least 10 were exempted from Irish. I managed alright.

congratulations for ya...but question is your school disadvantaged i'm presumin this is the case seeing as in a previous post u said your school was on the tap...so do u mind me askin how many in your school went to college...the fact is while some people will still make it there is a good portion that will struggle to get through with mediocre teachers and crappy facilities and if these students were placed in a better school they would do better and this is why in SOME cases the points are reduced...oh and for quiet a few courses the points dont change!!!!!!!!

28064212

amacachi wrote: »

I think there were 10 people ended up doing honours maths out of about 120 in my year in 6th year, about 20 did foundation Irish and maths and at least 10 were exempted from Irish. I managed alright.

An average student in a bad school will do worse than an average student in a good school. An average student from a bad background will do worse than an average student from a good background. The access program is an attempt to level the playing-field, not imbalance it.

While I would be for a system where everyone gets the same opportunities, that has to be implemented from primary school up, not third-level down

g'em wrote: »

If these students are granted entry to college they are treated the very same way as any other student would be academically, in fact their TAP "status" is left behind as soon as they enter JF - no special treatment, no exceptions.

That's not true. Qualifying through HEAR means you can get things like extra tuition, mentoring, one-to-one meetings

amacachi

KH25 wrote: »

Your parents' financial status shouldn't effect your academic career but sadly thats how it works over here. The more money you have the easier it is; you get the best education and you can afford the best universities.

As for leveling the playing field, third level should just be free to all who can attain the standards. But again, the system is set up in such a way that not only do you need the standards, you also need the money. What would be better would be a complete overhaul of the education system which removes private schools so that there is indeed a level playing field. If everybody was obtaining the same level of education and had the exact requirements to fulfill then there'd be no problem but thats not the case and thats why we need grants and programs like HEAR and TAP.

bradyle wrote: »

congratulations for ya...but question is your school disadvantaged i'm presumin this is the case seeing as in a previous post u said your school was on the tap...so do u mind me askin how many in your school went to college...the fact is while some people will still make it there is a good portion that will struggle to get through with mediocre teachers and crappy facilities and if these students were placed in a better school they would do better and this is why in SOME cases the points are reduced...oh and for quiet a few courses the points dont change!!!!!!!!

It was on the HEAR scheme til about 2007. No idea why it was taken off because the results were going down and from what I could see the "socio-economic" status or whatever you wish to call it of students seemed to be getting worse. In my year I think 2 people and one repeat got over 500 points. As it happens though up til maybe 5 years ago the standard of the teachers in it was absolutely excellent, unfortunately there's been quite a few retirements since then.
The Leaving Certificate is a remarkably easy exam to do quite well in in my opinion, hard work (for most people, not me :pac: ) is far more important than teaching or equipment.

Tragedy

amacachi wrote: »

9k for a teenager? Though the highest the grant went to was about 7k. I was also massively sickened to be a year too late to be able to get both the BTEA and the grant. :pac:

The student assistance fund is technically limited by how many people apply for it(each college receives a set amount and it's divvied up by the number of successful applicants+how much they're awarded). It's not very well advertised, and in my experience with it in two colleges - people who are in receipt of it try to stop other students finding out about it as it reduces the money they get.

I'd feel sick getting almost €17,000 to go to college, because I've worked enough minimum wage jobs(as well as better paying ones admittedly :pac:) to know just how much it takes to earn that.

g'em

Tragedy wrote: »

TAP has no points requirement to the best of my knowledge, HEAR has a lower points requirement.

There's no points requirements for entry but you do need to show a level of proficiency in certain subjects i.e. you can't enter the Science stream if you haven't got at least a C in pass Maths iirc.

Tragedy wrote:

*I'm a JF mature student who got nowhere near the points required for his course, is receiving free fees and Back to Education Allowance.

The free fees have nothing to do with TAP though right? And it's understood that even if you didn't get the points the year you do in TAP will partially make up for this and bring you to a level of competency alongside 'regular' entry students. Aren't Matures also interviewed for places as well?

amacachi wrote: »

Sorry, just out of interest, is the access programme just the foundation year thing and that's it? How is their getting into JF then decided, is it purely on LC points? If so what exactly is the point of the foundation year?
Genuine questions btw because the TAP website is leaving me baffled as to what they do.

Yup, the Foundation Course is a one-year pre-University course. I can only comment on the Science stream but for that you do Physics, Chemistry, Biology and Advanced Maths. The Biology course is almost identical to the JF course with some bits missing (time restriction mostly), Physics and Chemsitry are more like Leaving Cert afaik but that's usually because many students won't have done these subjects before (whereas lots of people do Biology and it's somewhat easier to pick up even if you've never done it before).

You apply via the CAO and your end of year marks are translated into points and that dictates whether you get a place or not but I guess you could argue that the points are kind of reduced - but then that's because you do an extra year on top of the Leaving so it balances out.

kthnxbai

Tragedy wrote: »

I'd feel sick getting almost €17,000 to go to college, because I've worked enough minimum wage jobs(as well as better paying ones admittedly :pac:) to know just how much it takes to earn that.

Ok, maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but how does someone get 17k a year?


I know BTEA can add up to a fair bit, if you're mature and stuff, but that's by FAR not what the majority of people get.

I went straight from secondary school to college and I'm on the full maintenance grant and I get €1300 a year.

amacachi

Tragedy wrote: »

The student assistance fund is technically limited by how many people apply for it(each college receives a set amount and it's divvied up by the number of successful applicants+how much they're awarded). It's not very well advertised, and in my experience with it in two colleges - people who are in receipt of it try to stop other students finding out about it as it reduces the money they get.

I'd feel sick getting almost €17,000 to go to college, because I've worked enough minimum wage jobs(as well as better paying ones admittedly :pac:) to know just how much it takes to earn that.

Ah yeah, the SAF. Forgot about that one. Didn't think that much was available though.

I'd feel sick alright, I've a weak stomach for alcohol. :pac:

g'em

28064212 wrote: »

That's not true. Qualifying through HEAR means you can get things like extra tuition, mentoring, one-to-one meetings

Ah fair enough, does that apply to students who go through the Foundation Course too? And don't you still have to apply for those extra's? As in they aren't guaranteed but you have to apply for them and be selected?

KH25

amacachi wrote: »

It was on the HEAR scheme til about 2007. No idea why it was taken off because the results were going down and from what I could see the "socio-economic" status or whatever you wish to call it of students seemed to be getting worse. In my year I think 2 people and one repeat got over 500 points. As it happens though up til maybe 5 years ago the standard of the teachers in it was absolutely excellent, unfortunately there's been quite a few retirements since then.
The Leaving Certificate is a remarkably easy exam to do quite well in in my opinion, hard work (for most people, not me :pac: ) is far more important than teaching or equipment.

Yeah, you need to work hard theres no arguing with that. But a student can only do so much themselves and after that they need good teachers and good environments to be taught in. Not every teacher is going to be perfect thats a given but it is much harder for a teacher to assist students when a class has 30 or more in it as there's just not enough time for it.
I had some absolutely fantastic teachers while I was at school but they weren't helped by poor funding and facilities.

amacachi

g'em wrote: »

There's no points requirements for entry but you do need to show a level of proficiency in certain subjects i.e. you can't enter the Science stream if you haven't got at least a C in pass Maths iirc.

A C in OL maths passes for proficiency now?

You apply via the CAO and your end of year marks are translated into points and that dictates whether you get a place or not but I guess you could argue that the points are kind of reduced - but then that's because you do an extra year on top of the Leaving so it balances out.

What's the formula for the points? Just out of interest?

kthnxbai wrote: »

Ok, maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but how does someone get 17k a year?


I know BTEA can add up to a fair bit, if you're mature and stuff, but that's by FAR not what the majority of people get.

I went straight from secondary school to college and I'm on the full maintenance grant and I get €1300 a year.

A mature student who had spent a year on the dole before college would be entitled to the full non-adjacent rate plus the top-up plus the BTEA, coming to about 17k a year. They got rid of that just before I started though, fcukers.

amacachi

KH25 wrote: »

Yeah, you need to work hard theres no arguing with that. But a student can only do so much themselves and after that they need good teachers and good environments to be taught in. Not every teacher is going to be perfect thats a given but it is much harder for a teacher to assist students when a class has 30 or more in it as there's just not enough time for it.
I had some absolutely fantastic teachers while I was at school but they weren't helped by poor funding and facilities.

I can think of 4 subjects I did where teaching was next to unnecessary and one other where about 2 months of teaching would have sufficed. :P

28064212

g'em wrote: »

Ah fair enough, does that apply to students who go through the Foundation Course too?

Not that I know of, HEAR and the Foundation Course are separate. I don't know what supports are available to Foundation grads

g'em wrote: »

And don't you still have to apply for those extra's? As in they aren't guaranteed but you have to apply for them and be selected?

Once you're accepted for HEAR, those are available to you as part of it

kthnxbai

amacachi wrote: »

A C in OL maths passes for proficiency now?


What's the formula for the points? Just out of interest?

A mature student who had spent a year on the dole before college would be entitled to the full non-adjacent rate plus the top-up plus the BTEA, coming to about 17k a year. They got rid of that just before I started though, fcukers.

So, you're complaining about the money and assistance that some people get, yet you would have taken it yourself?

So you're just being bitter about it, then?

Tragedy

g'em wrote: »

There's no points requirements for entry but you do need to show a level of proficiency in certain subjects i.e. you can't enter the Science stream if you haven't got at least a C in pass Maths iirc.

Yup, but I was eligible for entry to a 485 point course with ~235 points as a mature. TAP isn't any different to the best of my knowledge.

The free fees have nothing to do with TAP though right?

Sorry, meant to say free registration fees*

And it's understood that even if you didn't get the points the year you do in TAP will partially make up for this and bring you to a level of competency alongside 'regular' entry students.

I think the point is that there's plenty of people from middle class/lower middle class backgrounds who would be just as capable and apt as TAP/HEAR entrants, if also given a chance.

Aren't Matures also interviewed for places as well?

Mostly, depends on circumstances, history and your application. I wrote quite a long personal essay/biography and it was sufficient to get me in without an interview.

You apply via the CAO and your end of year marks are translated into points and that dictates whether you get a place or not but I guess you could argue that the points are kind of reduced - but then that's because you do an extra year on top of the Leaving so it balances out.

To the best of my knowledge, they aren't translated to points.
What happens is theres a quota for TAP/HEAR/Mature Students and you're benchmarked against other applicants, not normal entry students.
I think it's quite rare for people who successfully complete the access programme to not be offered a place, in most colleges it's guaranteed.