eircom dead now that upc announce new speeds and cheaper prices

Solair

ajmull wrote: »

Eircom Free Speed Upgrade to Ultimate NGB (up to 24Mb) at no extra cost and no new contract. "You can expect speeds up to 15 Mb". So where does the 24 Mb come in? And a new modem for free as well if needed!! Not bad all the same.

Speeds are entirely dependent on the length of your line. It's not unique to eircom or down to bad infrastructure. 24mbit/s is pretty theoretical you'd actually need to live in the telephone exchange to get that. Mostly the lines will sync at around 11 to 17mbit/s for your typical line and it will get a bit faster if you can actually see the exchange from your house

DSL is really pushing the limits of what you can do with a simple pair of copper wires.

Unless there's some major breakthrough in DSL technology, which is probably a bit unlikely, the only way eircom will get past the 24mbit/s limits is with fibre-to-kerb. In the short/medium term, they could use 2 lines to provide up to 48mbit/s. As more people drop off their fixed line network, they've more spare lines, so it's possible they could start selling bonded DSL lines to compete with UPC. Most Irish homes wired from the 1980s onwards also have more than a single telephone pair coming into the house so it's possible they could quite easily hook things up.

cormie

omg a kitty wrote: »

http://www.upc.ie/media/2011/1/13/2011BuildPlanV13.png
That map has been on their website for a while now, I don't know if its outdated, but check it out anyway

Thanks, seems to be outdated and not accurate as it says my area is the dark green, completed, but it's not available where I am and it's now mid 2011

bk

cormie wrote: »

Thanks for that BK, now when you say upgrading Dun Laoghaire, do you mean upgrading those who can already access UPC, or expanding so those who currently can't get it should be able some time over the next year? What's involved in upgrading, will they need to dig up the roads to lay some cables and all that I wonder?

I mean upgrade people who can already get cable. Some extra people might also get cable who don't currently have it due to new routing, etc. but not many.

cormie wrote: »

Every time I rang UPC before it was always expected that Dun Laoghaire would be updated soon, how realistic do you think it is that it will actually happen? Any dates or schedules planned at all I wonder? Would be nice if it was available by the time my current eircom deal runs out

I don't work for them, so I don't have any idea how realistic it is. I think it is likely as they certainly seem to be working their way through areas over the last few years and DL is on the list for this year, but no guarantees.

Solair, while it is true about the MANs (they also need to be connected to national backhaul like BT's network, many aren't) I think UPC will focus on upgrading all their existing network to triple play + HD + 100MB BB first. Then come back to these MAN towns and other areas in urban cities close to fiber that haven't been filled in.

cormie

Thanks for the info, guess I'll just have to keep waiting

lucernarian

There are reports here of UPC doing work in Dun Laoghaire and the likes of Killiney. I would be hopeful that the rollout will be done in less than 9 months throughout Dun Laoghaire going on past experience with other rollouts in the likes of Drumcondra and Rathmines.

cormie

Where are the reports you mention? On boards you mean? Hopefully it'll be rolled out soon anyway

omg a kitty

cormie wrote: »

Thanks, seems to be outdated and not accurate as it says my area is the dark green, completed, but it's not available where I am and it's now mid 2011

You can ask these twiiter accounts by UPC, they might have more details
http://twitter.com/#!/UPC_HelpsYou_IE
or
http://twitter.com/#!/UPC_Ireland

lucernarian

Yes, on boards. Do a search and have a look around.

stephenpalmer

Yes exciting stuff!!! the basic package with UPC is going to be like 25mbs or something!!!! Imagine we can only give you 25mbs im sorry.. ha

Eircom doesn't stand a chance IMO. Sure its not even Irish owned anymore

bealtine

stephenpalmer wrote: »

Eircom doesn't stand a chance IMO. Sure its not even Irish owned anymore

Singapore Telecom owns eircom

jay93

Just because of these new UPC packages doesn't mean eircom is dead, UPC only cover a small part of Ireland at the moment and until they expand alot eircom will be around for a very long time.

Solair

They're basically in the same position as any other traditional telecom in the world though.

They all have to compete against a cable company. Mostly, they are still stuck on DSL too, with some minor exceptions where fibre has been rolled out to the home. Even in countries where that has happened, it's generally only in major urban areas where it competes with cable and it's quite limited as yet in the vast majority of places I'm aware of.

The biggest threat to eircom is their massive debt, not UPC.

D'Peoples Voice

jay93 wrote: »

UPC only cover a small part of Ireland at the moment and until they expand alot eircom will be around for a very long time.

+1

UPC only cover the former Cablelink(NTL) areas of Dublin and the former Chorus areas of Cork, Galway, Waterford and Limerick cities and where ever else MMDS is/was available (Kildare also).

So Eircom will most likely continue to hold the sparely populated rural areas.

The advantage of cities for UPC is that by definition it can deliver fibre to every home at little UNIT cost given the small area to be covered.
The opposite is the case for cash-strapped Eircom- just look at the Western seaboard and think of the emigration in recent years.
Eircom have other worries .

However I think the knocking off of analogue tv in the move to digital tv (MPEG-4) will indirectly and unintentionally have a big impact on the broadband market :rolleyes:

Cantona's Collars

UPC can't deliver broadband to it's mmds customers-cable only.Tried to explain that to someone recently,he still believes he can get it cos Craig Doyle said so on the ads.:rolleyes:
Where I live UPC have had an analogue cable service since Jesus was a boy but have no plans to upgrade the service to cope with digital services let alone broadband,I couldn't care less about their second rate tv service-it's the broadband I want.The infrastructure is pretty much in place but all they are doing is simply maintaining it and losing a lot of customers to Sky and Freesat instead of being progressive and offering an improved service.
Eircom will hold out in certain areas but are losing customers rapidly in areas where UPC etc. offer a cheaper, better service.My speeds might not be as fast as my neighbour who has eircom but it's cheaper,has unlimited downloads and they don't keep an eye on what I download.

C81

When is UPC coming up2 Donegal??? Letterkenny to be precise.
UPC offer competitive rates for tv Internet and phone line.. Only one company to offer this form of package in Ireland!! Hurry up. Want to leave sir on but not exactly spooky for choice up here in Donegal..

Solair

C81 wrote: »

When is UPC coming up2 Donegal??? Letterkenny to be precise.
UPC offer competitive rates for tv Internet and phone line.. Only one company to offer this form of package in Ireland!! Hurry up. Want to leave sir on but not exactly spooky for choice up here in Donegal..

UPC should be able to cable a town like Letterkenny as it has a MAN fibre network and there also is a significant population centre there.

It's still in a position where because of Chorus' stupid assumption that MMDS and Cable were equivalent products that it didn't bother cabling large areas of cities like Cork! Many housing estates that were built in the 1990s early 00s were left uncabled as Chorus were cutting costs and being shortsighted. Parts of the Chorus-covered areas of Dublin are similar too i.e. some of the Northern suburban parts of Co. Dublin.

The result is that there's a hell of a lot of catching up to do, even in major urban centres.

If eircom were prepared to spend money they could easily get fibre-to-kerb in every urban area from Dublin and Cork down to small villages. They have the necessary backhaul infrastructure and it's just a matter of installing similar cabinets to UPC and pushing fibres down the existing duct network that carries local phone lines.

The problem seems to be that eircom's broke. They're in debt to the tune of about €4 billion, almost none of which was run up investing in network equipment!

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/price-of-eircom-debt-plunges-despite-bond-buyback-reports-2528054.html

bealtine

zerks wrote: »

My speeds might not be as fast as my neighbour who has eircom but it's cheaper,has unlimited downloads and they don't keep an eye on what I download.

There are no such thing as unlimited downloads so don't get drawn into believing that there are. It may well be advertised as unlimited but it's simply not true. There are limits to UPC's service however they are called Acceptable Usage Policy.

JONJO THE MISER

UPC remember they were NTL before the worst customer service ever, eircom customer service is A1 and you wont wait 3 weeks for a repair.

omg a kitty

bealtine wrote: »

There are no such thing as unlimited downloads so don't get drawn into believing that there are. It may well be advertised as unlimited but it's simply not true. There are limits to UPC's service however they are called Acceptable Usage Policy.

As do Eircom

Eircom Broadband FAQs Question 2

What is the difference between NGB Basic, Regular and Advanced?
The key difference between the three NGB products are their monthly usage allowance:

NGB Basic has a 10GB usage allowance
NGB Regular has a 30GB usage allowance
NGB Advanced has an Unlimited* usage allowance


*Unlimited usage subject to a fair usage policy of 250GB

But with UPC's 100Mb, your cap is 500GB http://www.upc.ie/termsandconditions/acceptableusagepolicy/ Section 3

UPC remember they were NTL before the worst customer service ever, eircom customer service is A1 and you wont wait 3 weeks for a repair.

Right....http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=71513467

bk

Solair you are right, but I'd expect UPC's first priority would be to upgrade and BB enable already cabled areas like Dun Laoghaire, followed by filling in urban areas in Cork and Dublin that still don't have cable (ex MMDS areas), before tackling MAN enabled towns around the country.

Also don't forget the MAN enabled towns need to be connected to affordable national backhaul from the likes of BT for UPC to be interested, not all towns have this.

bk

Yes Eircom are in serious trouble. Their debt is their biggest problem, but UPC certainly isn't helping.

Eircom are going from having an aost complete monopoly on phone and bb services to having UPC and the mobile companies picking off Eircoms most valuable customers.

For any company losing almost 50% of your customers is devastating. Now add to that that the rural customers you are left with are far less profitable tenth urban customers you have lost to UPC.

Things definitely don't look good for Eircom.

Cantona's Collars

bealtine wrote: »

There are no such thing as unlimited downloads so don't get drawn into believing that there are. It may well be advertised as unlimited but it's simply not true. There are limits to UPC's service however they are called Acceptable Usage Policy.

Trust me-I have unlimited usage with my isp due to the contract I signed originally with them,they changed their usage policy a while later and introduced limits.
I'm covered under the original policy(trust me I checked it with them) and won't change it-why should I?

Kensington

JONJO THE MISER wrote: »

UPC remember they were NTL before the worst customer service ever, eircom customer service is A1 and you wont wait 3 weeks for a repair.

Eircom customer service is awful. I think that is partly to blame for their downfall. They treated people like crap back in the monopoly days, safe in the knowledge there was absolutely nothing the customer could do about it. It's left a very sour taste with a lot of people and it's coming back to haunt them big time now that the choice is there.

Solair

bk wrote: »

I mean upgrade people who can already get cable. Some extra people might also get cable who don't currently have it due to new routing, etc. but not many.



I don't work for them, so I don't have any idea how realistic it is. I think it is likely as they certainly seem to be working their way through areas over the last few years and DL is on the list for this year, but no guarantees.

Solair, while it is true about the MANs (they also need to be connected to national backhaul like BT's network, many aren't) I think UPC will focus on upgrading all their existing network to triple play + HD + 100MB BB first. Then come back to these MAN towns and other areas in urban cities close to fiber that haven't been filled in.

Most of those towns with MANs have ESB fibres too although, the cost vs number of subscribers probably wouldn't justify it at present.

Many of those MAN networks are totally unused / underused in many of the towns they were put into anyway so it would kind of make sense to use them for cable + broadband.

Perhaps those towns that don't have UPC should be in a position to put building a broadband + cable TV network out to tender. If UPC has rights to cable them, they're not using them and they should just be sold on. There are companies out there who might be interested.

I'd say they'll do their urban non-cabled areas that are basically on their network first. There's loads of ex Chorus cable areas that were never cabled and are sitting in areas that are fully cabled. E.g. plenty of housing estates, apartment blocks etc around Cork that were never hooked up in the 90s.

Then you've got near by towns in North Dublin and in around Cork etc that only require a few KM of fibre or, that are heavily connected to fibre anyway that should be cabled-out without any issue.

Towns like Ballbriggan, Carrigaline, Ballincollig, Donabate etc should all be very easily cabled up.

Some of those towns, including Carigalline and Ballincollig had cable installed in the 80s/90s and then when Chorus took over the projects were just abandoned.

D'Peoples Voice

bk wrote: »

Also don't forget the MAN enabled towns need to be connected to affordable national backhaul from the likes of BT for UPC to be interested, not all towns have this.

When you say national backhaul are you referring to any of these networks ?

NRA =click here for pdf image

ESB Telecoms -

Aurora Telecom (Bord Gais) -

Irish Rail Fibre (aka Esat BT or BtIreland)

I hear the RPA were to lay broadband cables under its network, not sure what happened with that!!

Actually as regards to ESB telecoms.....

NTL has struck a deal with ESB Telecom that will see the cable TV and internet services provider deploy broadband services to customers in Galway and Waterford on the back of ESB’s 1,300km fibre-optic network.Under the agreement, ESB Telecom will supply bandwidth services between major nodes on its network to NTL, enabling it to reach other parts of its cable network areas in Ireland, particularly Galway and Waterford.

http://www.siliconrepublic.com/comms/item/3845-ntl-strikes-broadband-deal

Ranicand

Eircom is the most expensive provider now offering the slowest packs.

Their network has zero prospect of ever matching UPCs speeds plus their debt burden is passed onto their customers.

wheresmybeaver

Unless UPC make their cable BB service available everywhere in the country (not just cities and large suburbs) then Eircom will still have a leg to stand on.

And for a lot of people, the speed and download limit of their broadband is not a key concern. My own parents for example were very very reluctant to move away from Eircom for their broadband as they just "want it to work"; the perception still seems to be that UPC / Chorus / NTL is still very dodgy. A lot of Eircom's existing customers go with the most basic broadband service and would still consider it good value in a bundle.

Personally I would sign up for UPC in a shot if I could, but our estate in Cork is not wired for UPC (and doesn't look like it ever will). Having said that, Eircom seem to be worried about me and upgraded my broadband free of charge from the 8MB "Unlimited" NGB package (250GB) to the 24MB Ultimate package (still 250GB though). Genuinely pleased with that!

wheresmybeaver

Got a letter from Eircom last week letting me know they'd automatically upgraded my 8MB Regular NGB (250GB "Unlimited") to 24MB Ultimate (still 250GB "Unlimited"). I think my line can manage up to about 18MB so that'll be nice.

They might be doing this for all 8MB Regular customers, or perhaps just those that have recently queried their bills with the helpdesk ;-)

If they really want to win me over they might increase the fair use cap on their Ultimate package to 500GB...

bk

wheresmybeaver wrote: »

Unless UPC make their cable BB service available everywhere in the country (not just cities and large suburbs) then Eircom will still have a leg to stand on.

People really need to look at this from the bigger picture.

Eircom are 4 billion in debt and are getting slaughtered by UPC and the mobile companies in urban areas.

Rural areas are irrelevant as they are far less profitable then urban areas.

Eircom is in serious trouble and I can't see what they can do to survive. I expect they will have to declare bankruptcy soon.

wheresmybeaver wrote: »

And for a lot of people, the speed and download limit of their broadband is not a key concern. My own parents for example were very very reluctant to move away from Eircom for their broadband as they just "want it to work"; the perception still seems to be that UPC / Chorus / NTL is still very dodgy. A lot of Eircom's existing customers go with the most basic broadband service and would still consider it good value in a bundle.

Yes, but then UPC does have one of the best value for money and cheapest packages on the market.

12Mb/1.2Mb BB + 120GB cap + phone for just €32

Eircoms cheapest package is 8Mb/0.5Mb + 10GB cap + phone for €46

Plus in general UPC's BB is far more stable and reliable then Eircoms.

liamf

Agree completely: eircom doomed. Their debt load means they have neglected investment in their network for years and are trying to extract maximum cost from their existing customers.

When UPC BB available in my area (before end of year) I will immediately switch, cancel eircom and transfer my landline number to my (already all setup) VoIP provider, at a huge annual saving for a vastly improved service.

Customer inertia is the only thing keeping eircom in the game in large parts of the country at the moment where there are alternatives.

eircom cannot provide me with >2Mb bband, and never will without rewiring our part of Bray (Bray, mind, population 35K, not exactly a rural area.) Which of course they can't afford to do.

What was done to eircom is a bit of a national scandal. OTOH eircom is saddled with a raft of inefficiencies and daft staffing as legacy from the "good old days". I knew someone who briefly worked there about two years ago on contract. His was fond of saying that he'd never worked in a place with such a Can't Do attitude.