eircom dead now that upc announce new speeds and cheaper prices

alanhiggyno1

could this be the final nail in the coffin for eircom broadband?i think so..they will have to play some ace card to beat what upc offer from now on after their announcement..pity they are not rolling out that broadband in clare yet as i just rang them and they have no release date yet.:mad:wonder how many more will leave eircom now after this

DonJose

I'd leave eircom in a second if UPC offered their service in my estate in Mullingar, the fastest connection I can receive via eircom is 3mb.

alanhiggyno1

me too im on 8mb ngb and its ok but bit expensive.....upc seems only in dublin tho which is shame but they seem to be rolling it out all over bit by bit....so as soon as it comes to my region ill be switching.wonder how eircom will respond tho

Freddie59

alanhiggyno1 wrote: »

upc seems only in dublin

Not so - also in Cork, Limerick, Waterford, Galway, and many other smaller towns.

justsomebloke

alanhiggyno1 wrote: »

could this be the final nail in the coffin for eircom broadband?i think so..they will have to play some ace card to beat what upc offer from now on after their announcement..

Actually this will probably see more customers take up new connections with Eircom then UPC.

Most people just want a broadband connection and UPC have now priced them selves out of that market as Eircom can now offer more services for less.

I can get a phone line and broadband with eircom for less then €40 (for first 6 months) but with UPC their cheapest internet start at €43.

Currently I am on an old 8meg connection from UPC with and with their line rental charge of €7.50 we are currently paying €30 odd euro for broadband. If we had to go to the new price points though I would probably drop UPC for Eircom as I don't need the extra speed

Nollog

Yeah, people forget speed isn't the be all and end all of what consumers want.

Hogzy

/\/ollog wrote: »

Yeah, people forget speed isn't the be all and end all of what consumers want.

No its not but fast speed coupled with extemely competitive pricing is what the large majority want and its what UPC offer.

Nollog

Hogzy wrote: »

No its not but fast speed coupled with extemely competitive pricing is what the large majority want and its what UPC offer.

Yeah, but the point I was making was that at 42.odd euro as the very basic bb option, upc wouldn't damage eircom at all.
It looks now that the price is actually 35 euro.

IngazZagni

Even though 100mb is incredible, it does cost E80 a month or E87.75 a month if you don't have TV with them and that's of course on top of TV and phone costs.

Edit: plus a once off E80 connection fee that applies to all first time fibre optic users.

jor el

It is strange that UPC seem to be setting 25Mbps (at €35 plus €7.50) as it's entry level package, which puts the price of basic broadband higher than most of the competition. I'd imagine they will keep some sort of 10Mbps product on their books still, at around €20. Otherwise, they will lose out on customers that just want cheap Internet access, and are not too bothered about the speed.

I see that UPC have increased their customer base by some 30,000 in the last few months, and I'd imagine that every one of these was an eircom customer up until now. I can't see them risking this kind of growth by pricing themselves out of the budget market.

bk

Lads there will be more news coming about entry level product on Monday. UPC haven't priced themselves out of the low end, just wait and see.

bk

And yes, I do think Eircom is in serious trouble.

I think Eircom will have no choice but to make "upto" 24Mb/s the standard speed for all customers, with different caps at different price points.

It still won't really be competitive, but it is the only way they can keep reasonably close to UPC.

F1ngers

IngazZagni wrote: »

Even though 100mb is incredible, it does cost E80 a month or E87.75 a month if you don't have TV with them and that's of course on top of TV and phone costs.

Edit: plus a once off E80 connection fee that applies to all first time fibre optic users.

100meg is €65 + €7.75.

From twitter, mentioned stana alone charge in a later tweet.
"Prices for BB only: 25MB: €35, 50MB: €45, 100MB: €65."

the beezneez

F1ngers wrote: »

100meg is €65 + €7.75.

From twitter, mentioned stana alone charge in a later tweet.
"Prices for BB only: 25MB: €35, 50MB: €45, 100MB: €65."

but the 100 meg with digital max tv home phone and freetime world is only 85 euro

thefishone

bk wrote: »

Lads there will be more news coming about entry level product on Monday. UPC haven't priced themselves out of the low end, just wait and see.

Going to take a wild stab in the dark and say.....Anyone on Analogue/basic Digital who does not have BB/Phone with UPC will be offered an entry level BB (5-10megs,with DL of 30gigs or less) for free or a nominal amount.....but this is UPC and who knows:)

lucernarian

Eircom have capacity constraints in many areas, particularly the smaller exchanges that are not part of the core ethernet network. There are threads here about people who can't even order 7 instead of 3 mbps due to capacity constraints in the exchange.

Even if an exchange is "NGB" enabled, they'll have to replace quite a lot of equipment or upgrade the equipment with firmware etc. This wouldn't be so unlikely to happen but for the fact that eircom is serverely over leveraged and needs to pay off or restructure debt asap.

StaticNoise

In my own personal opinion I think, as there will surely be, a large drive to upgrade the country's infrastructure generally. This should benefit all networks.

Eircom are the big players down the country it seems, but I feel this won't be forever. Eircom really are a very messy company and are stabbing themselves a lot of the time.

I moved from Eircom because I could, but I doubt many will stick if they are able to shift.
Sure, pricing isn't too bad but you're not getting the best deal.

Kensington

StaticNoise wrote: »

In my own personal opinion I think, as there will surely be, a large drive to upgrade the country's infrastructure generally. This should benefit all networks.

Ideally, we'd have a nationwide fibre-to-the-home rollout to every single Irish household, funded by the state, owned by the state and fully operated and maintained by the state.
Private companies like Eircom, UPC, Digiweb could then buy wholesale bandwidth in bulk and push what they liked to each household - IPTV, telephone, true broadband, film rentals on demand...

Will it happen? Who knows

cormie

So what's in store for the basic of basic users like myself? I don't own a TV and don't need a phone line, I just need broadband as I do everything from my laptop. I'm currently on eircom NGB 8mb (I think it's 8mb) and it's absolutely fine, as long as I can stream the likes of RTE player, youtube etc, I don't really need anything faster. Before this I was on Irishbroadband so it's a huge leap in itself.

Ideally I wouldn't want to pay more than €25 a month for this type of broadband but with eircoms line rental and the fact that UPC isn't in my area (I'm in Dun Laoghaire, you'd imagine they would be here), seems I don't have much of a choice.

So €25pm for 8mb broadband, no tv, no phone, no "package", just broadband... possible?

AlmightyCushion

I can't see them dropping their low end package, it rules out a lot of valuable customers for them. They really need to start rolling out to new areas though Their lack of availability and TV services will probably be the only thing that will hold them back in the future, it certainly won't be their broadband.

keithclancy

Heh ... UPC Keep sending me letter to upgrade from the 30meg package to 60 meg

http://www.upc.nl/internet/

67 euro / month for 120meg down and 10 meg up here in the Netherlands

The Network card in my laptop is one 100mbit ffs !!

omg a kitty

cormie wrote: »

So what's in store for the basic of basic users like myself? I don't own a TV and don't need a phone line, I just need broadband as I do everything from my laptop. I'm currently on eircom NGB 8mb (I think it's 8mb) and it's absolutely fine, as long as I can stream the likes of RTE player, youtube etc, I don't really need anything faster. Before this I was on Irishbroadband so it's a huge leap in itself.

Ideally I wouldn't want to pay more than €25 a month for this type of broadband but with eircoms line rental and the fact that UPC isn't in my area (I'm in Dun Laoghaire, you'd imagine they would be here), seems I don't have much of a choice.

So €25pm for 8mb broadband, no tv, no phone, no "package", just broadband... possible?

Well I really hope UPC dont drop this package on Monday, but €25 + €7.75 standalone charge for 10Mb with 120GB cap, I'm guessing yours is 8Mb with 10GB cap?

cormie

I'm actually currently on this eircom deal (expired) which is brilliant value and I've a few months left of the offer but once that time is up, I'll have to then pay the line rental bringing the total price up to be a bit too expensive so if UPC can come to my area introducing a package for €25 or so with the same speeds, I'd jump at it. I've been waiting for them for about 2 years though, they are available less than a km away from me too

A.Partridge

I'm smack bang in the middle of Skerries but we have no access to UPC.

UPC can't tell me when they will be here either.

So, Eircom appears to be the only game in town. I'm not unhappy with Eircom but would appreciate some choice in the matter.

bk

I believe UPC will be upgrading Dun Laoghaire for Broadband over the next year.

UPC's cheapest BB product is 10MB 120GB cap €25 (€32.75 if you don't take TV service). This is the cheapest and best value for money entry level wired BB product in Ireland. You won't get cheaper.

If you can't get UPC, then the next best is Vodafone (available anywhere you can get Eircom as they use Eircoms network):
8mb BB + 40GB cap + phone + free off peak calls for €40

cormie

Thanks for that BK, now when you say upgrading Dun Laoghaire, do you mean upgrading those who can already access UPC, or expanding so those who currently can't get it should be able some time over the next year? What's involved in upgrading, will they need to dig up the roads to lay some cables and all that I wonder?

Every time I rang UPC before it was always expected that Dun Laoghaire would be updated soon, how realistic do you think it is that it will actually happen? Any dates or schedules planned at all I wonder? Would be nice if it was available by the time my current eircom deal runs out

Eircom are dying by the way they do business. But UPC broadband is so much superior its not funny.

cgarrad

Met the UPC engineers on the street the other day. Asked if they were planning on doing any upgrade works to the area (Camden St D2). They said they were there to survey the equipment needed for full upgrade.

The thought of ringing eircom to cancel my €55 3mb line with a 30Gb cap gives me waves of euphoria ;-)

Have 30Mb UPC in work and it is really solid and consistently so.

Leave eircom at the first chance you have....

Solair

alanhiggyno1 wrote: »

.....upc seems only in dublin tho which is shame but they seem to be rolling it out all over bit by bit....

Cable TV areas:

Link to big map : http://www.upc.ie/media/2009/6/30/map_ireland.jpg

UPC are in Dublin, Cork, Galway, Limerick, Waterford, Sligo ... a lot of areas that have always had cable television.

It's generally not widely available outside of large urban areas. However, there's a good possibility that they will be able to build-out networks very quickly in any towns that have MANs and decent alternative fibre connectivity and there are a surprising number of quite small towns that have that infrastructure in place, and in many cases, nobody is using it at present.

Towns and cities with MANs:

The major cities and many of the large towns listed already have cable TV and have had for decades. However, there are many commuter towns / suburban towns outside Cork, Dublin, Galway etc etc which should have been cabled, but weren't. So, the use of MANs will definitely make UPC's life easier.

Towns with MAN networks (Source ENet.ie NB: Phases are enet build phases, not UPC phases)
Phase 1 Towns:
Athlone
Ballina
Belmullet
Carlow Town
Carrickmacross
Carrick-on-Shannon
Cavan Town
Clonmel
Cork City
Dundalk
Dungarvan
Drogheda
Galway City
Gweedore
Kingscourt
Kilkenny City
Kiltimagh
Letterkenny
Limerick City
Manorhamilton
Monaghan Town
Mullingar
Portlaoise
Roscommon Town
Sligo Town
Tullamore
Waterford City
Wexford Town.

Phase 2 Towns:
Abbeyfeale
Ardee
Athenry
Bailieborough
Ballinasloe
Ballinrobe
Ballybofey
Ballyshannon
Banagher
Bantry
Birr
Blarney (Cork commuter/suburban)
Blessington
Buncrana
Bundoran
Cahir
Carndonagh
Carrick-on-Suir
Carrigaline (Cork commuter/suburban)
Cashel
Castleblaney
Castleisland
Charleville
Claremorris
Clifden
Clonee
Clones
Cootehill
Donabate (Dublin commuter/suburban)
Donegal Town
Dunboyne
Dunmanway
Dunshaughlin
Edenderry
Fermoy
Gort
Kanturk
Kells
Kilcoole
Killarney
Kilrush
Kinsale
Knock (Airport)
Listowel
Longford Town
Loughrea
Lusk
Midleton (Cork commuter/suburban)
Mitchelstown
Navan
Nenagh
Newcastle West
Newtownmountkennedy
Passage West (Cork commuter/suburban)
Portrane (Dublin commuter/suburban)
Ringaskiddy (Cork commuter/suburban)
Roscrea
Skerries (Dublin commuter/suburban)
Skibbereen
Stranorlar
Templemore
Thomastown
Tipperary Town
Tralee
Trim
Youghal.

ajmull

Eircom Free Speed Upgrade to Ultimate NGB (up to 24Mb) at no extra cost and no new contract. "You can expect speeds up to 15 Mb". So where does the 24 Mb come in? And a new modem for free as well if needed!! Not bad all the same.

omg a kitty

cormie wrote: »

Thanks for that BK, now when you say upgrading Dun Laoghaire, do you mean upgrading those who can already access UPC, or expanding so those who currently can't get it should be able some time over the next year? What's involved in upgrading, will they need to dig up the roads to lay some cables and all that I wonder?

Every time I rang UPC before it was always expected that Dun Laoghaire would be updated soon, how realistic do you think it is that it will actually happen? Any dates or schedules planned at all I wonder? Would be nice if it was available by the time my current eircom deal runs out

http://www.upc.ie/media/2011/1/13/2011BuildPlanV13.png
That map has been on their website for a while now, I don't know if its outdated, but check it out anyway

Solair

ajmull wrote: »

Eircom Free Speed Upgrade to Ultimate NGB (up to 24Mb) at no extra cost and no new contract. "You can expect speeds up to 15 Mb". So where does the 24 Mb come in? And a new modem for free as well if needed!! Not bad all the same.

Speeds are entirely dependent on the length of your line. It's not unique to eircom or down to bad infrastructure. 24mbit/s is pretty theoretical you'd actually need to live in the telephone exchange to get that. Mostly the lines will sync at around 11 to 17mbit/s for your typical line and it will get a bit faster if you can actually see the exchange from your house

DSL is really pushing the limits of what you can do with a simple pair of copper wires.

Unless there's some major breakthrough in DSL technology, which is probably a bit unlikely, the only way eircom will get past the 24mbit/s limits is with fibre-to-kerb. In the short/medium term, they could use 2 lines to provide up to 48mbit/s. As more people drop off their fixed line network, they've more spare lines, so it's possible they could start selling bonded DSL lines to compete with UPC. Most Irish homes wired from the 1980s onwards also have more than a single telephone pair coming into the house so it's possible they could quite easily hook things up.

cormie

omg a kitty wrote: »

http://www.upc.ie/media/2011/1/13/2011BuildPlanV13.png
That map has been on their website for a while now, I don't know if its outdated, but check it out anyway

Thanks, seems to be outdated and not accurate as it says my area is the dark green, completed, but it's not available where I am and it's now mid 2011

bk

cormie wrote: »

Thanks for that BK, now when you say upgrading Dun Laoghaire, do you mean upgrading those who can already access UPC, or expanding so those who currently can't get it should be able some time over the next year? What's involved in upgrading, will they need to dig up the roads to lay some cables and all that I wonder?

I mean upgrade people who can already get cable. Some extra people might also get cable who don't currently have it due to new routing, etc. but not many.

cormie wrote: »

Every time I rang UPC before it was always expected that Dun Laoghaire would be updated soon, how realistic do you think it is that it will actually happen? Any dates or schedules planned at all I wonder? Would be nice if it was available by the time my current eircom deal runs out

I don't work for them, so I don't have any idea how realistic it is. I think it is likely as they certainly seem to be working their way through areas over the last few years and DL is on the list for this year, but no guarantees.

Solair, while it is true about the MANs (they also need to be connected to national backhaul like BT's network, many aren't) I think UPC will focus on upgrading all their existing network to triple play + HD + 100MB BB first. Then come back to these MAN towns and other areas in urban cities close to fiber that haven't been filled in.

cormie

Thanks for the info, guess I'll just have to keep waiting

lucernarian

There are reports here of UPC doing work in Dun Laoghaire and the likes of Killiney. I would be hopeful that the rollout will be done in less than 9 months throughout Dun Laoghaire going on past experience with other rollouts in the likes of Drumcondra and Rathmines.

cormie

Where are the reports you mention? On boards you mean? Hopefully it'll be rolled out soon anyway

omg a kitty

cormie wrote: »

Thanks, seems to be outdated and not accurate as it says my area is the dark green, completed, but it's not available where I am and it's now mid 2011

You can ask these twiiter accounts by UPC, they might have more details
http://twitter.com/#!/UPC_HelpsYou_IE
or
http://twitter.com/#!/UPC_Ireland

lucernarian

Yes, on boards. Do a search and have a look around.

stephenpalmer

Yes exciting stuff!!! the basic package with UPC is going to be like 25mbs or something!!!! Imagine we can only give you 25mbs im sorry.. ha

Eircom doesn't stand a chance IMO. Sure its not even Irish owned anymore

bealtine

stephenpalmer wrote: »

Eircom doesn't stand a chance IMO. Sure its not even Irish owned anymore

Singapore Telecom owns eircom

jay93

Just because of these new UPC packages doesn't mean eircom is dead, UPC only cover a small part of Ireland at the moment and until they expand alot eircom will be around for a very long time.

Solair

They're basically in the same position as any other traditional telecom in the world though.

They all have to compete against a cable company. Mostly, they are still stuck on DSL too, with some minor exceptions where fibre has been rolled out to the home. Even in countries where that has happened, it's generally only in major urban areas where it competes with cable and it's quite limited as yet in the vast majority of places I'm aware of.

The biggest threat to eircom is their massive debt, not UPC.

D'Peoples Voice

jay93 wrote: »

UPC only cover a small part of Ireland at the moment and until they expand alot eircom will be around for a very long time.

+1

UPC only cover the former Cablelink(NTL) areas of Dublin and the former Chorus areas of Cork, Galway, Waterford and Limerick cities and where ever else MMDS is/was available (Kildare also).

So Eircom will most likely continue to hold the sparely populated rural areas.

The advantage of cities for UPC is that by definition it can deliver fibre to every home at little UNIT cost given the small area to be covered.
The opposite is the case for cash-strapped Eircom- just look at the Western seaboard and think of the emigration in recent years.
Eircom have other worries .

However I think the knocking off of analogue tv in the move to digital tv (MPEG-4) will indirectly and unintentionally have a big impact on the broadband market :rolleyes:

Cantona's Collars

UPC can't deliver broadband to it's mmds customers-cable only.Tried to explain that to someone recently,he still believes he can get it cos Craig Doyle said so on the ads.:rolleyes:
Where I live UPC have had an analogue cable service since Jesus was a boy but have no plans to upgrade the service to cope with digital services let alone broadband,I couldn't care less about their second rate tv service-it's the broadband I want.The infrastructure is pretty much in place but all they are doing is simply maintaining it and losing a lot of customers to Sky and Freesat instead of being progressive and offering an improved service.
Eircom will hold out in certain areas but are losing customers rapidly in areas where UPC etc. offer a cheaper, better service.My speeds might not be as fast as my neighbour who has eircom but it's cheaper,has unlimited downloads and they don't keep an eye on what I download.

C81

When is UPC coming up2 Donegal??? Letterkenny to be precise.
UPC offer competitive rates for tv Internet and phone line.. Only one company to offer this form of package in Ireland!! Hurry up. Want to leave sir on but not exactly spooky for choice up here in Donegal..

Solair

C81 wrote: »

When is UPC coming up2 Donegal??? Letterkenny to be precise.
UPC offer competitive rates for tv Internet and phone line.. Only one company to offer this form of package in Ireland!! Hurry up. Want to leave sir on but not exactly spooky for choice up here in Donegal..

UPC should be able to cable a town like Letterkenny as it has a MAN fibre network and there also is a significant population centre there.

It's still in a position where because of Chorus' stupid assumption that MMDS and Cable were equivalent products that it didn't bother cabling large areas of cities like Cork! Many housing estates that were built in the 1990s early 00s were left uncabled as Chorus were cutting costs and being shortsighted. Parts of the Chorus-covered areas of Dublin are similar too i.e. some of the Northern suburban parts of Co. Dublin.

The result is that there's a hell of a lot of catching up to do, even in major urban centres.

If eircom were prepared to spend money they could easily get fibre-to-kerb in every urban area from Dublin and Cork down to small villages. They have the necessary backhaul infrastructure and it's just a matter of installing similar cabinets to UPC and pushing fibres down the existing duct network that carries local phone lines.

The problem seems to be that eircom's broke. They're in debt to the tune of about €4 billion, almost none of which was run up investing in network equipment!

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/price-of-eircom-debt-plunges-despite-bond-buyback-reports-2528054.html

bealtine

zerks wrote: »

My speeds might not be as fast as my neighbour who has eircom but it's cheaper,has unlimited downloads and they don't keep an eye on what I download.

There are no such thing as unlimited downloads so don't get drawn into believing that there are. It may well be advertised as unlimited but it's simply not true. There are limits to UPC's service however they are called Acceptable Usage Policy.

JONJO THE MISER

UPC remember they were NTL before the worst customer service ever, eircom customer service is A1 and you wont wait 3 weeks for a repair.

omg a kitty

bealtine wrote: »

There are no such thing as unlimited downloads so don't get drawn into believing that there are. It may well be advertised as unlimited but it's simply not true. There are limits to UPC's service however they are called Acceptable Usage Policy.

As do Eircom

Eircom Broadband FAQs Question 2

What is the difference between NGB Basic, Regular and Advanced?
The key difference between the three NGB products are their monthly usage allowance:

NGB Basic has a 10GB usage allowance
NGB Regular has a 30GB usage allowance
NGB Advanced has an Unlimited* usage allowance


*Unlimited usage subject to a fair usage policy of 250GB

But with UPC's 100Mb, your cap is 500GB http://www.upc.ie/termsandconditions/acceptableusagepolicy/ Section 3

UPC remember they were NTL before the worst customer service ever, eircom customer service is A1 and you wont wait 3 weeks for a repair.

Right....http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=71513467

bk

Solair you are right, but I'd expect UPC's first priority would be to upgrade and BB enable already cabled areas like Dun Laoghaire, followed by filling in urban areas in Cork and Dublin that still don't have cable (ex MMDS areas), before tackling MAN enabled towns around the country.

Also don't forget the MAN enabled towns need to be connected to affordable national backhaul from the likes of BT for UPC to be interested, not all towns have this.