Osama taken out of the freezer as a pretext for Pak attack

Brown Bomber

As far as I can tell the only reason so far to believe OBL is at the bottom of the ocean now with cement boots on is Obama's word. Obama very recently said CIA agent and spree-murderer Raymond Davis was a diplomat. President peace prize's word isn't worth very much so we are exactly were we were this time last week i.e bin Laden likely dead but no proof. I don't think they would take bin Laden off ice for a distraction. Castro has mentioned that he suspects it is too take eyes away from NATO murdering Gadaffi's civilian family, it's been mentioned here that the US economy is the issue. I think that would be the equivalent of sacrficing a rook to take a pawn tbh.

I've just followed this briefly over the last two days but it seems like Pakistan is being setup for a fall. I don't doubt that their are elements within the Pak army and the ISI that are sympathethic or supportive of the Taleban and Al Qaeda and corruption is rife across the board.

Anyway, this sealed my suspicion. It's a news report from Indias largest news station NewsX. Of course Wikileaks is involved (again). It even clears up the Al-CIADA false-flag that went wrong the Crotch Bomber. That case had a credible witness who wouldn't go away. I can't remember his name but he was an American lawyer who insisted he seen the crotch bomber escorted through security without a passport Schipol airport (past ICTS the Israeli security firm who did the security at the 911 airports)

Actually just googled it now. The lawyers name was Haskell and this is taken from his account.

3. The FBI visited my office on December 29, 2009, and showed me a series of approximately 10 photographs. None were of the SDM. I asked the FBI if they brought the Amsterdam security video to help me identify the SDM, but they acted as though my request was ridiculous. The FBI asked me what accent the SDM spoke in and I indicated that he had an American accent similar to my own. I further indicated that he wore a tan suit without a tie, was Indian looking, around age 50, 6′0″ tall and 250-260 lbs. I further indicated that I did not believe that he was an airline employee and that he was not on our flight.

0. The SDM could not be from Al Qaeda. When speaking at the counter in Amsterdam, the SDM said the following “He is from Sudan, we do this all the time”. Who is “we”? If it is Al Qaeda, you surely don’t make such a statement to an airposrt security official.

11. The SDM could not be from airport security. The SDM did not dress in any secuirty uniform and did not appear to have any security badge. The SDM did not speak with a Dutch accent. The SDM dressed in a suit coat and pants. If the SDM was a higher up security official, he would not have to convince the ticket agent to let Mutallab on the plane without a valid passport. Instead, he would just order her to do it.


12. Could the SDM have been a U.S. Government official? He dressed in a suit and not a security uniform. Check. He indicated we do this all the time. Could “we” be the U.S. Government? Check. He spoke Enlish with an American accent. Check. Would he need to convice the ticket agent that this was a normal procedure to allow boarding without a passport? Check. Would he have the ability to obtain such clearance? Check. Could he enter this security area even though he wasn’t a passenger? Check. Would the ticket agent likely refer this request to a manager? Check. Would the U.S. Government not want this information public and try to hide it? Check.

So now thanks to Wikileaks it's all cleared up. It wasn't Obama's first false-flag after all. The Indian-looking American accented man who fixed it so a young "terrorist" dupe could get on the plane without a passport with a bomb in his underwear wasn't a CIA agent but ISI...Thank you Wikileaks. I feel safer now. Anyway I've waffled here for ages, watch the video it'll make sense.

Brown Bomber

Ha! just read that, I'll try to structure it better when I am not so tired. In the meantime to pre-empt some arguments the Taliban has just named Pakistan as there number 1 enemy above the US.
http://www.pakistanzindabad.pk/?videos=pakistan-is-no-1-enemy-taliban

Monty Burnz

BB, are you saying that the 'raid for bin Laden' was the 'Pak Attack' (in which case, what was the goal?) or are you saying that the US is lining up a proper military strike on Pakistan in the coming months?

Sorry for the confusion.

sbsquarepants

Pardon my ignorance, but what does SDM mean?

Brown Bomber

Monty Burnz wrote: »

BB, are you saying that the 'raid for bin Laden' was the 'Pak Attack' (in which case, what was the goal?) or are you saying that the US is lining up a proper military strike on Pakistan in the coming months?

Sorry for the confusion.

Confusion is my fault. I think we might be looking at India-US military action in Pakistan to de-nuke them with the final tear in the relationship being the Raymond Davis affair.

This explains it.

Brown Bomber

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Pardon my ignorance, but what does SDM mean?

Apologies. Thought I'd linked.

SDM = "Sharp Dressed Man" which is how US lawyer and passenger on the plane with the crotch bomber described the American accented man he witnessed forcing airport security to allow the crotch bomber to board the plane for Detroit without even having a passport.

To put it mildly I find it terribly convenient that Wikileaks, this week of all weeks has now confirmed that the Sharp Dressed Man was in all likelyhood ISI.

This is Haskell's account: http://haskellfamily.blogspot.com/2010/01/truth-about-flight-253-has-been.html

Brown Bomber

More raising of tensions. http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23946576-battle-for-custody-over-osama-bin-ladens-shot-wife.do

Pakistan has taken into custody the killed/alive, was used as a human shield/wasn't used as a human shield by OBL wife of bin Laden. She would be currently getting waterboarded by the CIA now if that helicopter hadn't crashed and there was room to take here. Luckily for her she is now recovering in a Pakistani military hospital and is the US are being refused access to her. Reportedly she will be flown home to Yemen when she is recovered.

Interestingly if true that article actually has the best evidence so far of OBL actually being killed.

In a further explosive development today, Bin Laden's 12-year-old daughter claimed that the al Qaeda leader was shot dead in cold blood.
Senior Pakistani security officials, quoted by the al Arabiya television station, said the girl had told them that her father had been captured, but then shot by the Seal team.


Other family members also claimed that no shots were fired by those living in the Abbottabad compound in a further challenge to the US account of the mission. The dramatic allegations follow the White House's admission that Bin Laden was unarmed when he died and the disclosure by the head of the CIA that he was given no chance to surrender.

Brown Bomber

Bin Laden Death Script & the Needed Trigger for Next Step-Pakistan

Thursday, 19. May 2011
Time to Talk about ‘Why & Why Now’ It has been over two weeks since the orchestrated ever-changing Bin Laden Death. The question of what happened remains the same except it doesn’t seem to matter any longer. The US media is done after making their initial splash, and the majority is left with one conclusion: the SOB is dead, and who gives a da… how it happened. Whether Osama held an AK-47 while using some damsel in distress as a shield, whether there was a real fight or not, whether it was really Osama’s body in an organic edible shell we fed to the endangered sharks, whether the full credit goes to the CIA or the White House or the Pentagon …no longer seems to matter. Dizzy-fying confusion induced by dozens and dozens of lies and discrepancies and denials has given way to post-adrenaline-rush exhaustion. The question of what happened has been classified as moot and irrelevant. Right or wrong I’ll leave that question behind, at least for now, and instead, go back to focus on the more important question- the question of ‘why and why now.’
As I stated during the first few days of covering the Bin Laden Death Script, when it comes to DC dirty politics, when it comes to the new world order machine, and when it comes to US presidents, timing is everything and there are no such things as coincidences:

Considering the mainstream media’s sensationalism and propaganda tactics and their cemented role as an extension of the establishment, one must step back and take in the entire landscape, the context, connections, and of course the timing. Only after that, after putting the pieces together instead of dumbly staring at the images spread before us by the media, we have a chance to get a grasp of the reality-facts; or at least a chance to come up with real questions.

In the past two weeks, after talking with many experts and sources, both nationally and internationally, Pakistan has been surfacing as the common thread holding the most rational explanation of ‘why and why now.’ Interestingly, I came across the following statement by Rep. Ron Paul during his interview on MSNBC’s Morning Joe:

“The helicopters that landed in Abbottabad won’t be the last to put American troops on the ground in Pakistan, I see the whole thing as a mess, and I think that we are going to be in Pakistan. I think that’s the next occupation and I fear it. I think it’s ridiculous, and I think our foreign policy is such that we don’t need to be doing this.”

I was planning to write a comprehensive piece based on information and analyses I have gathered from my solid intelligence and Pentagon sources. However, after watching the interview with Ron Paul (And he has his credible sources), I decided to go ahead and write a fairly quick commentary on why the question of ‘why and why now’ keeps pointing to Pakistan as the next probable occupation target for our never-dying neocon objective-makers. Actually the following is more of significant developments and a timeline than a subjective interpretation or commentary. I am going to put them together and have us look at the pattern and where these points point to, and that’s exactly what I meant by “one must step back and take in the entire landscape, the context, connections, and of course the timing.”
Let’s start with Project for the New American Century (PNAC) which was launched in 1997 and became known for leading the public campaign to oust Saddam Hussein both before and after the September 11 attacks. As many of my highly aware readers know, those neocons, their objectives and activities, never go away. They may change names or change a few front faces, but like a leech they always hold on to the system; the system they help put in place in the first place:

The blandly-named Foreign Policy Initiative (FPI) – the brainchild of Weekly Standard editor William Kristol, neo-conservative foreign policy guru Robert Kagan, and former Bush administration official Dan Senor – has thus far kept a low profile; its only activity to this point has been to sponsor a conference pushing for a U.S. “surge” in Afghanistan.But some see FPI as a likely successor to Kristol’s and Kagan’s previous organisation, the now-defunct Project for the New American Century (PNAC), which they launched in 1997 and which became best known for leading the public campaign to oust former Iraqi president Saddam Hussein both before and after the Sep. 11 attacks.
…

So what’s their mission statement, and what have these neocons been cooking up with the new face, their new president, Obama? The following is from an article by Jim Lobe in 2009:

The mission statement opens by listing a familiar litany of threats to the U.S., including “rogue states,” “failed states,” “autocracies” and “terrorism”, but gives pride of place to the “challenges” posed by “rising and resurgent powers,” of which only China and Russia are named.
…FPI intends to make confrontation with China and Russia the centrepiece of its foreign policy stance. If this is the case, it would mark a return to the early days of the Bush administration, before 9/11, when Kristol’s Weekly Standard took the lead in attacking Washington for its alleged “appeasement” of Beijing… FPI has chosen to push for escalating the U.S. military effort in Afghanistan. The organisation’s first event, to be held here Mar. 31, will be a conference entitled “Afghanistan: Planning for Success”.
…

For now, this is what I want you to take from the above on Obama’s Neoconistic objectives: fiercely counter China-Russia when it comes to establishing US hegemony, especially in Central and South Asia, with emphasis on Afghanistan. Next, let’s look at the strategic importance of the same region for China [All emphasis mine]:
In order for China to sustain its status as the emerging economic superpower, it must take all the necessary steps required in order to have sufficient energy resources for the near future. According to Pakistani think tank, BrassTacks, Chinese interests in the Indian Ocean became visible in 2002, when they invested heavily and began work on the Gwadar Port, located in Baluchestan, a province of Pakistan.
The Gwadar Port has its benefits for both Pakistan and China. According to Abdus Sattar Ghazali, executive editor for American Muslim Perspective, “The cost benefits to China of using Gwadar as the port for western China’s imports and exports are as evident as the long-term economic benefits to Pakistan of Gwadar becoming a port for Chinese goods.” Not only does Gwadar enable China to fulfill its energy needs, but it will also provide a strategic military footprint in the Arabian Sea, which has the United States worried.
…
Okay, now you have Obama’s Neoconistic objectives with China as its main target and competitor, and you have China competing for the same strategic area, Pakistan, to fulfill its energy needs and establish a strategic footprint in the Arabian Sea, and in the middle of it, the point where US-China strategic objectives intersect: Pakistan.

In order to halt this, the globalists need to block China’s access to the Arabian Sea by way of Gwadar. According to BrassTacks, to do this, “there needs to be a ‘new Pakistan’ as indicated in Operation Enduring Turmoil.” Operation Enduring Turmoil is PNAC’s plan to disassemble Pakistan into three parts. According to a “game plan” drawn out by Lt. Col. Ralph Peters, in a 2006 article of the Armed Forces Journal, “Pakistan’s Northwest Frontier tribes would be reunited with their Afghan brethren [and] would also lose its Baluch territory to Free Baluchistan. The remaining ‘natural’ Pakistan would lie entirely east of the Indus, except for a westward spur near Karachi.” With this done, what was once the NWFP, a province of Pakistan, is now part of Afghanistan, and what was once Baluchistan, a province of Pakistan, is now its own state, Free Baluchistan. This would force China to impossibly go through Afghanistan and Free Baluchistan in order to reach the Arabian Sea. Such an arrangement would cut China’s route to the Arabian Sea.
…

Now, please focus on our three main actors- China, US and in the middle, the strategically important Pakistan. Let’s use our common sense minus logic-clouding details, and consider what happens when the strategically crucial actor in the middle starts straying away from one main actor and moving toward the other.
This is from November, 2009:

China has sent out an interesting signal ahead of US president Barack Obama’s scheduled visit to Beijing by offering a set of advanced fighter jets to Pakistan. It has agreed to sell $1.4 billion worth of jets to Islamabad days ahead of the planned visit of the US president Barack Obama to Shanghai and Beijing on November 15-18.
The move is expected to jolt the US administration as it works on notes and talking points for Obama’s meetings with Chinese leaders. He is expected to discuss Beijing’s relationship with India and its role in internal conflicts in Pakistan and Afghanistan.
Beijing is keen to reduce US influence on Pakistan, which will make it easier for it to deal with India, sources said. Washington’s recent decision to extend massive financial assistance to Islamabad is seen in some quarters as a policy setback for China.
…

A year later, in October 2010, the following interesting perspective on how things were heating up between the US and Pakistan is published by Margolis:

The neoconservative far right in Washington and its media allies again claim Pakistan is a grave threat to US interests and to Israel. Pakistan must be declawed and dismembered, insist the neocons. Pakistan’s nuclear arsenal is reportedly being targeted for seizure or elimination by US Special Forces. There is also talk in Washington of dividing Afghanistan into Pashtun, Tajik and Uzbek mini-states, as the US has done in Iraq, and perhaps Pakistan, as well. Little states are easier to rule or intimidate than big ones. Many Pakistanis believe the United States is bent on dismembering their nation. Some polls show Pakistanis now regard the United States as a greater enemy than India.
…

It is important to remember how Obama passed AIPAC neocons’ test on Pakistan during his presidential campaign in 2007. Obama said if elected in November 2008 he would be willing to attack inside Pakistan with or without approval from the Pakistani government,”If we have actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets and President Musharraf won’t act, we will,” Obama said.
Now, let’s fast-forward to early April 2011:

Pakistan’s ambassador to China used a recent celebration of his country’s Republic Day to give a rhetoric-filled talk about Beijing-Islamabad relations. If March 23, 1940, was the day the Muslim League decided to establish Pakistan, then the anniversary would be a time to declare that relations with China will define the way forward. ‘We shall take our bilateral relations to new heights,’ Masood Khan proclaimed. [...] Pakistan has been moving into China’s sphere of influence for decades and the countries routinely refer to each other as ‘all-weather’ partners.
This year will mark the 60th anniversary of diplomatic relations. ‘Even when I was there in 1981, ’82, I could see Chinese military factories going up,’ says Stephen Cohen, a Pakistan expert at the Brookings Institution. Now, Pakistan represents a major market for China’s nuclear and military technology. According to SIPRI, a Swedish think tank, over 40 per cent of Chinese arms exports go to Pakistan—the largest share of any country China sells to.”

Obviously Obama’s day in day out bombing of Pakistan, his ‘let’s drone the hell out of them’ policy, had backfired, producing the opposite effect for his Neoconistic global hegemony objectives. Now, things begin to really heat up; this is from April 17, 2011:

President Obama’s rhetoric in Delhi had no substance except to rile the Pakistanis. The Delhi card didn’t quite work. The Chinese Premier visited Islamabad and pledged $20 billion in investment in Pakistan during the next five years. How about them apples? The Pakistani retort is what it has always been we need “Friends Not Masters”.
Britain as a colonial power practiced “Divide and rule” pitting religious and ethnic differences in the Middle East to rule continents. Bhutto famously theorized that the post-colonial powers were working on a “unite and rule” strategy forcing Pakistan to work with India against China.
“The idea of becoming subservient to India is abhorrent and that of cooperation with India, with the object of promoting tension with China, equally repugnant.” Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto.
…
Most Pakistanis don’t want closer relations with Washington–they want to build closer relations with Beijing, and work on creating the Muslim Union (similar to the European Union) in Central Asia. Links with Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, Afghanistan, Iran and Turkey are key to the future of Pakistan.
Islamabad is moving ever closer to China, both militarily and economically– and that’s a fact Jack.
…

By mid April things start going downhill; very fast.

The transactional relationship between Washington and Islamabad is coming to an end. While US-Pakistani transactional relations are fraying at both ends, the opposite is true of Sino-Pakistani relations.
Pakistan supported China when she was recognized only by Albania, and built the bridge to the USA. This fact cannot be forgotten by the Chinese who mention it in every summit and mentioned it in this summit also
…
There is renewed energy to pace up the development of Gwadar Port to provide China a shorter route and easy excess to world markets to dispatch its goods to Europe and America.
“The Gwadar port project will transform Pakistan’s Navy into a force that can rival regional navies. The government of Pakistan has designated the port area as a “sensitive defense zone.” The Gwadar port will rank among the world’s largest deep-sea ports. The port provides China a strategic foothold in the Arabian Sea and the Indian Ocean.
Located at the entrance of the Persian Gulf and about 460 kms from Karachi, Gwadar has had immense Geostrategic significance on many accounts. The continued unstable regional environment in the Persian Gulf in particular as a result of the Iran/Iraq war, the Gulf war and the emergence of the new Central Asian States has added to this importance. Considering the Geo-economic imperative of the regional changes, the ADB’s Ports Master Plan studies considered an alternate to the Persian Gulf Ports to capture the transit trade of the Central Asian Republic (CAR) as well as the trans-shipment trade of the region.
…

And finally, on April 27, according to my sources, the following catalyst prompts the Obama team to execute the Kill Osama Bin Laden Script. This is the pivotal point in the Bin Laden Death Operation Script as a catalyst for the soon to come Pakistan Occupation:

Pakistan is lobbying Afghan President Hamid Karzai against building a long-term strategic partnership with the United States, and urging him instead to look to Pakistan and its ally, China, for help in striking a peace deal with the Taliban and rebuilding the economy, according to Afghan officials.
…
Washington’’s relations with Pakistan have reached their lowest point in years following a series of missteps on both sides, and Pakistani officials say that they no longer have an incentive to follow the American lead in their own backyard, the report added.
“Pakistan is sole guarantor of its own interest,” said a senior Pakistani official, adding: “We”re not looking for anyone else to protect us, especially the US. If they”re leaving, they”re leaving and they should go.”
…

The next day, on April 28, , a senior Pakistani government official said that the Export-Import Bank of China will loan Pakistan $1.7 billion to develop a city-wide train system in the eastern city of Lahore.
Since the holes-filled and never-explained ‘kill or capture’ operation, the presidential PR machine, the US media and their extension guised under ‘alternative’ have been beating the war drums. After all, as with any wars of ours, public opinion must be shaped, and public backing must be garnered. This is one of the latest reflecting just that:

After the killing of Usama bin Laden in Pakistan, few American voters believe that country is an ally of the United States in the war against terrorism. Moreover, most doubt Pakistan is worthy of continued U.S. foreign aid.
That’s according to a Fox News poll released Wednesday.
Nearly three out of four voters — 73 percent — say the United States should stop sending foreign aid until Pakistan demonstrates a deeper commitment to the war against terrorism. Some 19 percent would continue to provide funding.
…
With the discovery that bin Laden apparently had been living in Pakistan for years, the consensus is Pakistan is not a friend (74 percent). A small 16 percent minority of voters views Pakistan as a strong U.S. ally in the war against terrorism.
…

You must be thinking: Pakistan must have tons in their own dossier to expose US government duplicities, lies, and nefarious activities. So why have they been relatively silent in all this? Why don’t they open the flood gate on ‘facts’ surrounding Bin Laden, his supposed role in 9/11, his supposed journey since 9/11, and his supposed death recently? And I have an answer for that: neither party has played all their cards yet. Just take a look at how Gates has been playing both sides carefully while measuring the outcome of various factors in play:

Gates reiterated the accusation that elements within the Pakistani government knew about the location of Osama bin Laden and were keeping that information from the United States. Bin Laden was killed in a US raid earlier this month.
At the same time, Gates echoed comments by other officials, conceding that the US has absolutely no evidence to that effect and that it is “pure supposition on our part.” The repeated accusations, despite being based on “pure supposition” have done major damage to US-Pakistan ties, and have spawned calls from Congress to suspend all aid to Pakistan to punish them.
Gates, who attended the conference with Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Admiral Michael Mullen, also said that the US raid that killed bin Laden had “humiliated” the Pakistani government, and that they had “paid a price” for bin Laden’s presence. Mullen added that the US ability to attack Pakistan with impunity was “a humbling experience” for the Pakistani military.
…

The White House neocons are in the midst of age-old diplomatic games, bluffing, and hedging their bets. They have the ‘foreign & military aid’ card. They have the ‘ISI dirt files’ card. They have the ‘ultimate China leaning’ card. And of course, they have the ‘mighty power of preemptive occupation war’ card which is always blessed and supported by NATO and overlooked by their butlers in the UN.
China has its own set of cards; whether it is their biggest market for dumping goods, or carrying the US debt, or who knows what else. For now they are using the ‘talk’ card with no real strings attached:

Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao assured his Pakistani counterpart Yusuf Raza Gilani of China’s “all-weather friendship” on Wednesday, during a visit that sharply contrasted with anger between Washington and Islamabad.
“I wish to stress here that no matter what changes might take place in the international landscape, China and Pakistan will remain forever good neighbours, good friends, good partners and good brothers,” Wen told Gilani at the start of a meeting in central Beijing’s Great Hall of the People.

Suffice it to say that not all cards have been placed on the table. As the famous Kenny Rogers’ Gambler lyrics go:
You got to know when to hold ‘em, know when to fold ‘em,
Know when to walk away and know when to run.
You never count your money when you’re sittin’ at the table.
There’ll be time enough for countin’ when the dealin’s done.
As for us the people, we’ll be sitting and waiting for the three parties to conclude this stage of their global hegemony game. We’ll be reading and watching and listening to their PR machine in the media give us one concocted fantasy after another. As in all other wars of ours we will have zero to say, zilch to gain, and plenty to lose. They have the cards, and we are the piled up tokens on the table.


http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/2011/05/19/bin-laden-death-script-the-needed-trigger-for-next-step-pakistan/

ed2hands

Great post. As Ron Paul suggested in that link, it's all pointing to the possibility of occupation with all it's benefits and implications (followed by the usual disaster capitalism). They're bombing the place anyway, so it's far from ludicrous to say their next stage could be "boots on the ground".

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=21283

Brown Bomber

ed2hands wrote: »

Great post. As Ron Paul suggested in that link, it's all pointing to the possibility of occupation with all it's benefits and implications (followed by the usual disaster capitalism). They're bombing the place anyway, so it's far from ludicrous to say their next stage could be "boots on the ground".

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=21283

Yeah, I thought so too. Didn't think anyone would actually read it though cos it was a little long. So I'm glad someone did

Brown Bomber

Guess where? Pakistan.
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010/world/2011-05/23/c_13889429.htm

It's unconfirmed at this point the Taliban deny it but look how CNN twist it to make Pakistan look involved.
http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/05/23/afghanistan.omar/?hpt=T2

"Our sources and senior Taliban members confirm that they can't contact him," Mashal said, adding that Omar had been living in Quetta for 10 years.

Pakistan's Interior Rehman Malik also denied that Omar was dead, saying in a news conference that the claims were "baseless."
An official with the NATO-led International Security Assistance Force told CNN there was no indication the rumor was true.
A former top Pakistani intelligence official called the reports "nonsense" and "disinformation," but then said he had no idea whether the Taliban leader is alive or dead.
"How should I know? I'm not concerned with it," Gen. Hamid Gul said on IBN television.

"How should I know? I'm not concerned with it," Gen. Hamid Gul said on IBN television.
The original news report suggesting Monday that Omar was dead, by Afghanistan's TOLOnews, quoted NDS spokesman Meshal as saying that Gul was moving him when he was killed.
"Am I supposed to be transporting him from Quetta to Waziristan? It's nonsense," he said by telephone from Islamabad.
Pakistan's ISI intelligence agency is thought to have had strong links with the Afghan Taliban over the years.

The U.S. government offered a reward of up to $10 million for information leading to his capture. Many in the U.S. intelligence community believed he was holed up in or near Quetta, a city of 1 million people that is the capital of Balochistan province in southwestern Pakistan. Pakistan has consistently dismissed those claims.

Dave!

I'm not reading through all your articles, but do you have a rough time frame as to when this invasion should take place? Should we take it that, because it was Obama who took Osama out of the freezer, that it was to serve his purposes and that it should therefore be within his (presumed) next administration?

Or if in 5 years' time some gun-totin', war-lovin' Republican gets elected and nukes Pakistan, will you count that as a vindication of your theory as well?

Just wanna have some clear parameters set out from the get-go.

Brown Bomber

'US to deploy troops if Pak nukes come under threat'

http://geo.tv/5-16-2011/81426.htm

Pak nuke security in focus again after naval base attack

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/us/Pak-nuke-security-in-focus-again-after-naval-base-attack/articleshow/8538305.cms

US, Pakistan Near Open War; Chinese Ultimatum Warns Washington Against Attack
http://paktribune.com/news/index.shtml?239616

Jeboa Safari

How are the US going to attack Pakistan, when the Pakistanis have nukes, and can obliterate any US or allied interests within 2500 miles?

Brown Bomber

Dave! wrote: »

I'm not reading through all your articles,

All one of them? You should read it though, might learn a thing or two.

Dave! wrote: »

but do you have a rough time frame as to when this invasion should take place? Should we take it that, because it was Obama who took Osama out of the freezer, that it was to serve his purposes and that it should therefore be within his (presumed) next administration?

That would make sense if you assume that Obama isn't a corporate puppet. I don't

Dave! wrote: »

Or if in 5 years' time some gun-totin', war-lovin' Republican gets elected and nukes Pakistan, will you count that as a vindication of your theory as well?

I'm not actually looking for vindication tbh. An invasion of a nuclear armed state with a population who are proud to a fault would be a complete disaster. To try and answer your question I see the wheels in motion for an invasion/partial invasion of Pakistan now. Though the same bloodthirsty ***** have been angling for war with Iran since the fall of Iraq. People are wising up so I'd suspect Wikileaks to be heavy with anti-Pakistani propoganda in the coming months.

Just wanna have some clear parameters set out from the get-go.[/QUOTE]

Brown Bomber

Brown Bomber wrote: »

People are wising up so I'd suspect Wikileaks to be heavy with anti-Pakistani propoganda in the coming months.

Thank you Julian.

New Delhi: A WikiLeaks cable, which NDTV has exclusive access to, says Pakistan's airmen were being radicalised and were sabotaging Pakistani F-16s deployed for security operations along the Afghan border. (Read Cable: Pakistan cable on visiting US officials being briefed on F-16s)

Edit: [I]'m shocked![/I]
Wikileaks: Saudi Arabia, UAE funded extremist networks in Pakistan

By Reuters
Published: May 22, 2011
http://tribune.com.pk/story/173744/wikileaks-saudi-arabia-uae-funded-extremist-networks-in-pakistan/

Dave!

Grand, so as long as the US (or presumably any of her allies... Actually, probably any country that you can find some tenuous link to the US with) in some way attacks Pakistan in the near future, you'll mark that as another hit.

Good to know

Brown Bomber

Dave! wrote: »

Grand, so as long as the US (or presumably any of her allies... Actually, probably any country that you can find some tenuous link to the US with) in some way attacks Pakistan in the near future, you'll mark that as another hit.

Good to know

Dave while you've been sleeping (get your flu shot in Finland?) the US has been attacking Pakistan every 3 days in drone attacks killing 90% civilians. Last week NATO shelled a Pakistani checkpoint.

Jeboa Safari

They are not realistically going to attack a country with nuclear weapons

Talk E

Jeboa Safari wrote: »

They are not realistically going to attack a country with nuclear weapons

They attacked Iraq.

Oh, they didn't have nukes, they were only pretending.

Brown Bomber

Jeboa Safari wrote: »

They are not realistically going to attack a country with nuclear weapons

They don't have to attack the whole country. They can invade and occupy the non-government controlled tribal regions and balkanise Pakistan.

Jeboa Safari

Brown Bomber wrote: »

They don't have to attack the whole country. They can invade and occupy the non-government controlled tribal regions and balkanise Pakistan.

I don't think the Pakistani government government would let that happen, and if they did they'd quickly fall and be replaced by a hardline anti-western successor.

Yahew

If only the world were run by westerns as smart as conspiracy theorists would have us believe. Instead the Chinese are running rings around a somnulent West, the Pakistan allies were harbouring the Wests biggest threat.

Talk E

Yahew wrote: »

If only the world were run by westerns as smart as conspiracy theorists.

I like this part

Yahew

You are conspiring to quote me out of context.

Brown Bomber

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Thank you Julian.

New Delhi: A WikiLeaks cable, which NDTV has exclusive access to, says Pakistan's airmen were being radicalised and were sabotaging Pakistani F-16s deployed for security operations along the Afghan border. (Read Cable: Pakistan cable on visiting US officials being briefed on F-16s)

Edit: 'm shocked!
Wikileaks: Saudi Arabia, UAE funded extremist networks in Pakistan

By Reuters
Published: May 22, 2011
http://tribune.com.pk/story/173744/wikileaks-saudi-arabia-uae-funded-extremist-networks-in-pakistan/

Here's another one that just the week before the Abbotabad raid.

US cables likened ISI to Taliban, al-Qaeda: Wikileaks

US authorities described Pakistan's ISI intelligence agency as a "terrorist" organisation, according to a leaked US document.



The document was published in some US and European newspapers as part of a series of leaked documents distributed by the website, Wikileaks.
It said the US saw the ISI as a threat on par with al-Qaeda and the Taliban.


Last week, the US military's top officer, Adm Mike Mullen, accused the ISI of having links with the Taliban.


He said the ISI had a "long-standing relationship" with a militant group run by Afghan insurgent Jalaluddin Haqqani, which targets US troops in Afghanistan.


Pakistan rejected the accusation with Pakistan's army chief, Gen Ashfaq Kayani, saying it was "negative propaganda" by the US.
The latest leak comes as US-Pakistan ties have been under severe strain.
There has been growing anger in Pakistan about US drone strikes in the north-west of the country.



And controversy over a CIA contractor who shot dead two Pakistani nationals earlier this year also soured ties between Washington and its ally Islamabad.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-13191241

While I was there I noticed what's below. Always rely on the BBC.

Nuclear worries

Is Pakistan's weapons arsenal safe after Karachi attack?

Brown Bomber

Jeboa Safari wrote: »

I don't think the Pakistani government government would let that happen, and if they did they'd quickly fall and be replaced by a hardline anti-western successor.

Briefly tell me what you know about the powers of the Pakistani government.

Brown Bomber

Yahew wrote: »

If only the world were run by westerns as smart as conspiracy theorists would have us believe. Instead the Chinese are running rings around a somnulent West, the Pakistan allies were harbouring the Wests biggest threat.

Sibel Edmonds is not a conspiract theorist & ..........

This is the West's biggest threat?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUuIdEOKW9k

ed2hands

Here's a snippet of a Webster Tarpley article:



According to the London Sunday Express, Obama has already approved an aggressive move along these lines: “US troops will be deployed in Pakistan if the nation’s nuclear installations come under threat from terrorists out to avenge the killing of Osama Bin Laden… The plan, which would be activated without President Zardari’s consent, provoked an angry reaction from Pakistan officials… Barack Obama would order troops to parachute in to protect key nuclear missile sites. These include the air force’s central Sargodha HQ, home base for nuclear-capable F-16 combat aircraft and at least 80 ballistic missiles.” According to a US official, “The plan is green lit and the President has already shown he is willing to deploy troops in Pakistan if he feels it is important for national security.”



"Extreme tension over this issue highlights the brinksmanship and incalculable folly of Obama’s May 1 unilateral raid, which might easily have been interpreted by the Pakistanis as the long-awaited attack on their nuclear forces. According to the New York Times, Obama knew very well he was courting immediate shooting war with Pakistan, and “insisted that the assault force hunting down Osama bin Laden last week be large enough to fight its way out of Pakistan if confronted by hostile local police officers and troops.”

Yahew

Good plan. It beats a western city going nuclear, although it should be invoked only if the radical Islamists do take over the nukes. ( not that the ISI are much better).

In any case not having theocrats with nukes is a good idea.

Yahew

Not much of a conspiracy plan though. A western government tries and stops radical Islamists getting nukes. Let's all go nuts. Imagining such a thing. Who wudda thought.

Brown Bomber

Yahew wrote: »

Good plan. It beats a western city going nuclear, although it should be invoked only if the radical Islamists do take over the nukes. ( not that the ISI are much better).

In any case not having theocrats with nukes is a good idea.

Autonomy means nothing to you? You'd have Captain America, the only state to ever fire nuclear weapons in anger parachuting in to save the day so they can keep the warheads in the hands of friendly tyrants regardless of international law?

Should Baathists have pre-emptively attacked Washington before Fallujah and it's people was destroyed by chemical weapons?

What's your position on Israel's illegal nuclear stockpile? And their attempts to illegally sell warheads to apartheid South Africa?

Yahew

Either I am not typing slow enough or you are reading too fast for your own good. If Pakistani nukes get into the hands of stateless terrorists it would be good to take em out. I don't care who takes stateless terrorists out. China, if north Korea collapsed, Russia if a neighbour with nukes collapsed, India and the US if Pakistan collapses. Etc.

The other alternative is millions of deaths, which you are going to blame on the Joos anyway.

Brown Bomber

Yahew wrote: »

Either I am not typing slow enough or you are reading too fast for your own good. If Pakistani nukes get into the hands of stateless terrorists it would be good to take em out. I don't care who takes stateless terrorists out. China, if north Korea collapsed, Russia if a neighbour with nukes collapsed, India and the US if Pakistan collapses. Etc.

There is nothing to argue over here. Obviously neither of us want to see anyone getting nuked nor nuclear weapons in the hands of terrorists.

Yahew wrote: »

The other alternative is millions of deaths, which you are going to blame on the Joos anyway.

Ey.... Where did that come from? :pac:

Surely not me asking you about Israel's illegal nuclear arsenal?

Take 2

What's your position on Israel's illegal nuclear stockpile? And their attempts to illegally sell warheads to apartheid South Africa?

Yahew

Brown Bomber wrote: »

There is nothing to argue over here. Obviously neither of us want to see anyone getting nuked nor nuclear weapons in the hands of terrorists.


Ey.... Where did that come from? :pac:

Surely not me asking you about Israel's illegal nuclear arsenal?

Take 2

What's your position on Israel's illegal nuclear stockpile? And their attempts to illegally sell warheads to apartheid South Africa?

My position on Israel and it's nukes. I am opposed.


Now why did you ask?

Talk E

Brown Bomber wrote: »

This is the West's biggest threat?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUuIdEOKW9k

Dear Osanta,

I have been a good boy this year.
I want a playstation 3
A scrambler
And a surprise.

Nice 1

Talk E

Ps. I will leave the tv on for you and some good porno mags on the table.

Jeboa Safari

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Briefly tell me what you know about the powers of the Pakistani government.

They don't control the northern region, but they're too unstable to allow the US send troops in because of the uproar it would cause. The ISI, or at least certain powerful elements within it, aren't really answerable to the government, and would probably seize any opportunity it could to gain control. The best they can currently do is quietly allow the US conduct drone attacks while officially protesting.
There is no real way the US can invade, its a country of 170 million, with plenty of fanatics, has nuclear weapons and spends a sizeable amount of its budget on defence.

ed2hands

Jeboa Safari wrote: »

They don't control the northern region, but they're too unstable to allow the US send troops in because of the uproar it would cause. The ISI, or at least certain powerful elements within it, aren't really answerable to the government, and would probably seize any opportunity it could to gain control. The best they can currently do is quietly allow the US conduct drone attacks while officially protesting.
There is no real way the US can invade, its a country of 170 million, with plenty of fanatics, has nuclear weapons and spends a sizeable amount of its budget on defence.

Source?

Brown Bomber

Jeboa Safari wrote: »

They don't control the northern region, but they're too unstable to allow the US send troops in because of the uproar it would cause. The ISI, or at least certain powerful elements within it, aren't really answerable to the government, and would probably seize any opportunity it could to gain control. The best they can currently do is quietly allow the US conduct drone attacks while officially protesting.
There is no real way the US can invade, its a country of 170 million, with plenty of fanatics, has nuclear weapons and spends a sizeable amount of its budget on defence.

The best they can do for who? The US empire? Let's not forget they are the government of the Pakistani people and should be serving their best interests.

How on earth is it in the best interests of the representatives of the Pakistani people to allow drone attacks that kill 90% civilians of these same people?

Pakistan spends a sizable amount of it's budget on it's defence for two reasons. They are actually on the frontline of the US made global war on terror, many more Pakistanis have lost their lives than Americans. Also it is part of the merry-go-round of putting American taxpayer dollars into the military corporations US taxpayers >>> Pakistani aid (less money stolen through corruption) >>>> Haliburton etc.

Your "plenty of fanatics" comment interests me. I'd be interested to hear you expand on it.

Anyway, take 3 minutes to watch this and you'll learn all you need to know about the current Pakistan government.

Brown Bomber

Yahew wrote: »

My position on Israel and it's nukes. I am opposed.


Now why did you ask?

Because we were discussing terrorists/rogue states with nukes and Israel fits both descriptions IMO. I wanted to see if you would apply a double standard.

Brown Bomber

And right on cue today from the US Senate Committee on Foriegn Relations.

Senator Richard G. Lugar, the Ranking Republican on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, today made the following statement at a committee hearing:

To the extent that our purpose is to confront the global terrorist threat, we should be refocusing resources on Pakistan, Yemen, Somalia, parts of North Africa, and other locations.

(...)

The Pakistan side of the border has a fundamentally different dynamic. Despite the death of Osama bin Laden, al Qaeda and other terrorist groups maintain a strong presence. There is no question that the threat of these groups, combined with worries about state collapse, a Pakistani war with India, the safety of the Pakistani nuclear arsenal, and Pakistan’s intersection with other states in the region make it a strategically vital country worth the cost of engagement. The question is how the United States navigates the contradictions inherent in dealing with the Pakistani government and Pakistani society to ensure that our resources and diplomacy advance our objectives efficiently.


The importance of getting this right is reinforced by the utterances of Osama bin Laden, who called the terrorist acquisition of nuclear and chemical weapons “a religious duty.” This effort has not died with bin Laden. Al Qaeda and its affiliates have so far been unsuccessful in obtaining nuclear material or a nuclear device, experts believe. But many of our top military and intelligence officials continue to regard the terrorist acquisition of a nuclear weapon as the biggest threat to U.S. national security.


Pakistan’s military leaders have given repeated assurances that the country’s rapidly expanding nuclear arsenal is well-secured. But we also know that the A.Q. Khan network was enabled by members of Pakistan’s nuclear establishment. Further, if Pakistan succumbs to violent extremism or economic collapse, confidence in the security of Pakistan’s nuclear arsenal and technology could erode rapidly. This underscores the importance to U.S. national security of a stable Pakistan and of continued engagement on terrorism and nuclear security issues.
http://foreign.senate.gov/press/ranking/release/?id=41835d06-cb6b-4354-9ba5-aa4f450b220f

the
In short: Our economy is gone to ****. The only way to remain as the globes sole superpower is to abuse our unmatched military strength. There is nobody left to fight in Afghanistan. We have our bases to launch future attacks on Iran from, our warlords are running the opium trade and the government has been utterly corrupted and will do our bidding unflinchingly.

Therefore Al-Qaeda are now in league with the dark side of Pakistani intelligence/military and politics. We put on that Osama show, bringing him back to life to prove to everyone that Pakistan = Al Qaeda. There is a slight hitch though, Pakistan is nuclear armed, but every problem is an opportunity. The nukes could be our back door to occupation. All we have to do fabricate some nonsense about Pakistani nuclear arms being under threat. Perhaps arm some of our mad Mooslims on the payroll to attack a military base, get some of the guys Raymond Davis was dealing with before he went on his killing spree. Now all we need is Julian Assange to knock up some bull**** leaks pushing the Al Qaeda/Bin Laden = Pakistan = Nuclear terrorist threat = US forced to act to safeguard the Pakistan warheads...............

Brown Bomber

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Therefore Al-Qaeda are now in league with the dark side of Pakistani intelligence/military and politics.

Captured Al Qaeda: Foreign Fighters 'Converging' in Pakistan


http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/captured-al-qaeda-foreign-fighters-converging-pakistan/story?id=13674549

Brown Bomber wrote: »

All we have to do fabricate some nonsense about Pakistani nuclear arms being under threat.

WikiLeaks: US raised concerns about safety of Pakistan's nuclear assets


Updated: May 26, 2011 02:48 IST

http://www.ndtv.com/article/wikileaks-revelations/wikileaks-us-raised-concerns-about-safety-of-pakistans-nuclear-assets-108219

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Perhaps arm some of our mad Mooslims on the payroll to attack a military base

'New kind of militant' behind Pakistan Karachi attack

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-13508864

The deadly 15-hour siege on Pakistan's Mehran naval airbase in Karachi on Monday was carried out by attackers with military-level training, raising suspicions they had inside help.


Questions are being asked about the security of Pakistan's vital military installations after a well-organised group of gunmen held off Pakistan's equivalent of the US Navy Seals - the Special Services Group-Navy (SSG-N) - for 15 hours.



The SSG-N is said to be the most formidable fighting force in Pakistan, but - for a few hours at least - they appeared to be at the mercy of a brazen group of fighters.



"They weren't any ordinary militants - certainly not the Taliban," said one security official, who wished to remain unnamed.
"The aim of all Taliban attacks is maximum death and destruction - these men were very focused on what they were after."

A number of officials listed to me their observations, which reinforced the conviction that they were being confronted with a new kind of militant attack:

• Military formation: One injured sailor told an official that the attackers "moved and dressed like us". The militants moved in tactical military formation and spoke in military parlance. They spoke between themselves in Urdu, as well as a foreign language.
• Clothing and equipment: The militants wore combat fatigues, according to officials - and had night vision goggles, carrying rocket propelled grenades [RPGs]. "It takes months of training for ease with the goggles, and years to be expert," an official told me.
• Tactics and a plan: One witness said that even though the militants had clear sight of them, "they ignored us... Instead, they just aimed RPGs at the two Orions [planes] parked on the tarmac." They were clearly under instructions to destroy military hardware. They also changed tactics easily and broke away in groups, which clearly had different aims.
• Crack shots: "They were excellent shots - as good as any we have," said a security official involved in the operation. They used their night vision goggles to maximum effect, witnesses say - and that was an advantage they had until the SSG-N team arrived at the scene. When the gun battle began, one security official said, it was clear that these men could "hold their own" in a firefight. The fact that they had M16 carbines and sniper rifles also set them apart.

Officials says all of this is in strong contrast to the Taliban, who adopt an equally brutal but more chaotic mode of attack. "Their best weapon is the suicide bomber - they are notoriously poor shots," one official told me.
"They were the exception to every rule of Pakistan militant tactics.
"They were also not about killing people," the official said. "It was clear they were interested in the destruction of equipment, a much more 'military' aim."

---

Raid on PN Base - Objectives of Foreign Intelligentsia


By Lt Col Zaheerul Hassan (R)
http://www.asiantribune.com/news/2011/05/24/raid-pn-base-objectives-foreign-intelligentsia

In the light of the above objectives we can visualize the hidden hands behind the attack on Pakistan Navel Base, i.e. India, U.S, and Israel collaboration in and their continuing treacherous alliance. In this connection there are three possibilities, firstly, we can say that they have managed to target several Pakistan Navy assets, create a major hole in Pakistani war capability, shake the national morale, and give a boost to protracted propaganda in mainly US media about the security of Pakistan’s nuclear weapons and sites. The incident of Naval Forces occurred at a time when the Pakistani nation faced a major security breach on May 2,2011 and parliament passed a resolution against U.S. unilaterally action of Abbottabad.



CIA and ISI differences over OBL killing and others intelligence matters clearly caused the trust deficit between them. The reasons are obvious because Pakistan security agencies and ISI have only single interest i.e. guarding national whereas CIA has multidimensional interests of super power.


It’s a coordinated attack planned by RAW in collaboration with CIA. It’s very much connected with the Abbottabad Operation, Raymond Davis release and terrorists attacks in Quetta. On May 16,2011 a Saudi diplomat was also gunned down by men on a motorbike as he drove through Karachi in Pakistan, just days after two hand grenades were lobbed at the consulate building, police say.

.....................................................................................................

Indian footprints emerging
http://www.thenews.com.pk/TodaysPrintDetail.aspx?ID=48984&Cat=2&dt=5/25/2011

ISLAMABAD: The footprints of circumstantial evidence regarding the terrorist attack on the Mehran base clearly show the involvement of Indian intelligence agency, Research and Analysis Wing (RAW). Senior intelligence sources told The News that this was a joint venture, accomplished by RAW certainly with the consent of CIA and a group of al-Qaeda who are being used by the anti-Pakistan lobby.

“Even at this very initial stage, the agencies engaged in the investigation of the attack have got hold of some concrete indications to prove the involvement of foreign hand in the debacle,” one source said. He said that it could easily be calculated who was the prime beneficiary of the shattering strike.

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Brown Bomber wrote: »

Now all we need is Julian Assange to knock up some bull**** leaks pushing the Al Qaeda/Bin Laden = Pakistan = Nuclear terrorist threat = US forced to act to safeguard the Pakistan warheads...............

Wikileaks: Pakistani Military Taught to Dislike US
http://www.ndtv.com/article/wikileaks-revelations/wikileaks-us-raised-concerns-about-safety-of-pakistans-nuclear-assets-108219

Brown Bomber

.

jakdelad

osama is making a special guest apperance on next weeks

DEADLIEST CATCH

Brown Bomber

Gen. Hamid Gul: US will start WW3 if war expands to Pakistan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MH8WUHjo1ms

Brown Bomber

US plans to seize nuke stockpile if terrorists take over Pak

Pakistan’s worst fears that the US has plans to seize its nuclear stockpile have been confirmed by US expert, Dr Jack Caravelli, a former adviser to at least two US Presidents.
(...)
“For a number of years, the plans existed that in the most dire of circumstances the US would at least have the options to undertake operations to try and secure those weapons and materials, if necessary,” Caravelli said in his radio interview. A leading US nuclear expert on non-proliferation and terrorism, Caravelli is also a former Deputy Assistant Secretary at the US Department of Energy and had served on the White House National Security Council where he was the President’s main adviser
for non-proliferation policies affecting Russia and the Middle East.
http://www.tribuneindia.com/2011/20110601/main2.htm

Caravelli is "ex" CIA

Dr. Jack Caravelli has served at the highest reaches of the US government as an expert on national security issues. His government service began in 1982 at the Central Intelligence Agency where he completed various analytical and managerial assignments.
http://www.clubcorp.net/Clubs/La-Cima-Club/About-the-Club/Calendar/Canceled-Speaker-Series-with-Dr.-Jack-Caravelli

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