Patch 1.3.3 PTRE patch notes

Columc

Jonny7 wrote: »

The code S game I am watching right now, Trickster v Ensnare on XelNaga caverns

Look, quit the moaning, if Terran players (I reached high diamond terran myself) lose to this soon-to-be 2 gate proxy then its our fault not the game. Scout and wall if you see it, christ you'd think 6 pools never existed.

signing up to the league jonny?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056243014

Columc

terran is just bad at the moment, I just dont feel the synergy!

Orizio

Jonny7 wrote: »

Look, quit the moaning, if Terran players (I reached high diamond terran myself) lose to this soon-to-be 2 gate proxy then its our fault not the game. Scout and wall if you see it, christ you'd think 6 pools never existed.

Excuse me? Asking a question isn't 'moaning'.

Kirby

Spore crawlers have needed a buff since retail....badly. Either increase the range or the root time. Obvious changes but I never thought we would get any.

12seconds to 6 seconds is excellent. Means you can move them around for incoming voids. Banshees were never really a problem tbh but void harrass was annoying as sin.

seraphimvc

IRL_Sinister wrote: »

I really don't get the problem here... if you're bad enough to lose against proxy 2gate you deserve to lose :S

Just realised I already commented here: The above comment still doesn't change what I said, walling off against Protoss is retarded. We have things called Bunkers and reapers.

2gate proxy/any form of early timing mass zealot rush is no joke, i know exactly how insane to see 6zealots come in my base around 5mins. on some map close pos (meta comes in mind)is a straight gg(if you didnt scout tats it). even catz was saying '2gate is a bitch' and day9 said 'i m gonna fcking 2gate the **** out of zergs if the patch goes live!' (they said that when they were playing 4v4 with destiny 2days ago, linky, should be around 32mins, the whole vod is a good laugh anyway ). is not that 2gate is unbeatable, but it is a very strong cheese(which only require 20apm) but the zerg need to use quite some micro/game sense to fend it off. obv we can 10pool and make 3spines but thats like asking you to do a 2rax all in every game.

and the wall in in tvp is kinda like a gamble too, watch some desrow how he voids ray+3gate every terran who wall :pac: neo mentioned on somewhere before about the voids rape wall in terrans too iirc.

Grimebox

I really hope this changes PvP. I can't stand playing or watching that match up anymore

NeoSlicerZ

seraphimvc wrote: »

2gate proxy/any form of early timing mass zealot rush is no joke, i know exactly how insane to see 6zealots come in my base around 5mins. on some map close pos (meta comes in mind)is a straight gg(if you didnt scout tats it). even catz was saying '2gate is a bitch' and day9 said 'i m gonna fcking 2gate the **** out of zergs if the patch goes live!' (they said when they were playing 4v4 with destiny 2days ago, linky, should be around 32mins). is not that 2gate is unbeatable, but it is a very strong cheese(which require 20apm) and require the zerg to use quite some micro/game sense to fend it off. obv we can 10pool and make 3spines but thats like asking you to do a 2rax all in every game.

and the wall in in tvp is kinda like a gamble too, watch some desrow how he voids ray+3gate every terran who wall :pac: neo mentioned on somewhere before about the voids rape wall in terrans too iirc.

I'm dying of laughter.

Oh and walling in tvp is a risk but still, you can and even if you don't, sim citying is pretty much an art form rather than randomly placing buildings around

seraphimvc

NeoSlicerZ wrote: »

I'm dying of laughter.

Oh and walling in tvp is a risk but still, you can and even if you don't, sim citying is pretty much an art form rather than randomly placing buildings around

ye the vod is so funny look at day9's laugh lol. pros playing team game is so lulll

(wait you are laughing at the stream right?>_>)

Jonny7

seraphimvc wrote: »

2gate proxy/any form of early timing mass zealot rush is no joke, i know exactly how insane to see 6zealots come in my base around 5mins. on some map close pos (meta comes in mind)is a straight gg(if you didnt scout tats it). even catz was saying '2gate is a bitch' and day9 said 'i m gonna fcking 2gate the **** out of zergs if the patch goes live!' (they said that when they were playing 4v4 with destiny 2days ago, linky, should be around 32mins, the whole vod is a good laugh anyway ). is not that 2gate is unbeatable, but it is a very strong cheese(which only require 20apm) but the zerg need to use quite some micro/game sense to fend it off. obv we can 10pool and make 3spines but thats like asking you to do a 2rax all in every game.

and the wall in in tvp is kinda like a gamble too, watch some desrow how he voids ray+3gate every terran who wall :pac: neo mentioned on somewhere before about the voids rape wall in terrans too iirc.

Heh I agree about the zerg thing, gonna be a pain, but meh, just have to scout it, at least a 2 rax is offensive for T, we just have to drop sucky defensive spines

But yup, looks like Terran are screwed with new patch, zerg too, might as well cancel GSL because its a foregone conclusion now, the proposed 2 gate is just gonna destroy life as we know it

re the comp: am moving house, only on a netbook, so streaming only for me

NeoSlicerZ

seraphimvc wrote: »

ye the vod is so funny look at day9's laugh lol. pros playing team game is so lulll

(wait you are laughing at the stream right?>_>)

No, I'm laughing at the notion that 2gate requires no micro, perhaps proxy 2 gate does but honestly. Since you don't play protoss, you haven't experienced the amount of sheer madness that is zealot micro wars. Simply a-moving is really bad, esp vs terran since there're a few nice tricks to getting free hits on zealots.

Jonny7

Orizio wrote: »

Excuse me? Asking a question isn't 'moaning'.

Apologies I think I was simultaeneously reading 20 pages of teamliquid of people going berserk over it

Unless they make roaches 1 supply again I don't really get that overexcited by patches

seraphimvc

NeoSlicerZ wrote: »

No, I'm laughing at the notion that 2gate requires no micro, perhaps proxy 2 gate does but honestly. Since you don't play protoss, you haven't experienced the amount of sheer madness that is zealot micro wars. Simply a-moving is really bad, esp vs terran since there're a few nice tricks to getting free hits on zealots.

my point still stands then(my pov as zerg ie biased to pvz), proxy 2gate is incredibly strong and relatively easy to it pull off than being the zerg to fend it off.

and i was talking about more generally within the leagues, at higher league i doubt that you will see alot proxy 2gate in pvt or pvp after the patch(except people like combatex :pac:) but i have no doubt there will be alot 2gate pvz in bronze-master. heh, i wont even be surprise to see people try that on idra(i will defo come back here to post vod if he lost to that :pac:).

seraphimvc

Jonny7 wrote: »

Heh I agree about the zerg thing, gonna be a pain, but meh, just have to scout it, at least a 2 rax is offensive for T, we just have to drop sucky defensive spines

But yup, looks like Terran are screwed with new patch, zerg too, might as well cancel GSL because its a foregone conclusion now, the proposed 2 gate is just gonna destroy life as we know it

i still remember clearly how MC beat some terran on steppes back then with proxy gates :pac:

the only thing i wanna see is that the roach range buff didnt exist back during zeal's 33s period so maybe it can be hold off easier >_> (but prob not a good idea to fe now in pvz )

lets wait and see if the patch really go live(is not like we can change blizz decision anyway).

Funky

seraphimvc wrote: »

my point still stands then(my pov as zerg ie biased to pvz), proxy 2gate is incredibly strong and relatively easy to it pull off than being the zerg to fend it off.

That's the nature of all cheeses and the reason why people do them. 6 pool could be done by a monkey and if not scouted often results in a free win.

There's also nothing wrong with a non-proxy 2gate opener becoming a standard build in PvZ. It's most definitely not unbeatable and from the getgo puts the protoss behind and needing to do damage/force a large response from the zerg. Just like... a 10 pool opening. Funnily enough a 2 gate opener requires infinitely more micro than a 10 pool and is less dangerous, we'll see post patch.

seraphimvc

Funky wrote: »

That's the nature of all cheeses and the reason why people do them. 6 pool could be done by a monkey and if not scouted often results in a free win.

There's also nothing wrong with a non-proxy 2gate opener becoming a standard build in PvZ. It's most definitely not unbeatable and from the getgo puts the protoss behind and needing to do damage/force a large response from the zerg. Just like... a 10 pool opening. Funnily enough a 2 gate opener requires infinitely more micro than a 10 pool and is less dangerous, we'll see post patch.

i disagree :pac: probes can easily surround lings(click patch) and suffer nothing while there is no amout of micro you can do with drones/lings against early 5zealots without losing anything.

again. i m talking pvz. i find it funny at this stage some people still find zerg early pool 'dangerous'? zerg cheese s*cks big time.

Funky

seraphimvc wrote: »

i disagree :pac: probes can easily surround lings(click patch) and suffer nothing while there is no amout of micro you can do with drones/lings against early 5zealots without losing anything.

again. i m talking pvz. i find it funny at this stage some people still find zerg early pool 'dangerous'? zerg cheese s*cks big time.

I'm not exactly sure what you're talking about, are you comparing 6 pool with proxy gates? 6 early lings in the probe line vs 5 early zealots? They're not comparable situations. Yes 6 pool can be defended with probes if the zerg just lets them die, properly used you will kill probes, pylons and delay a load of mining time, in some cases killing them straight up or doing enough damage that you can catch up again in economy.

With regard to a 2 gate opening(i'm going to assume this is 2 gates in the protoss base since proxy gates are a non-issue on most maps), you drone scout and see if there's going to be '5 early zealots'(as if they just appear out of nowhere lol) and put up spine crawlers or go roaches. The first couple of zealots are the most important and the ones that need to do damage, if they get surrounded by lings or a combination of lings/drones then the aggression is over and you just went way behind.

Whereas a 10 pool(not cheese, btw) you can just a-move up the P ramp and if they don't respond properly you get in and can just rally lings to their base while they struggle to reseal the choke. If they respond by putting a forge up before core you just don't make lings and drone up putting you way ahead.

VikingErik

Everyone is failing to see the biggest nerf to protoss - Pylon radius.

WHERE THE F*** AM I SUPPOSE TO PLACE MY BUILDINGS :P

Not to mention that as a bronze player I'm already being told in-game that I "must place that in a pylon field" when I'm panic-warping in units to combat that early rush. I'm so screwed.

Jokes aside, I did just realise that this will mess up the forge FE wall off as you will now need two pylons to wall off those big ramps on maps like shakuras and taldarim. Not to mention the reduced vision us protoss will get from "scouting-pylons".

IRL_Sinister

The actual Research time for WG has been nerfed. The build time, BEFORE WG, has been buffed.

VikingErik

IRL_Sinister wrote: »

The actual Research time for WG has been nerfed. The build time, BEFORE WG, has been buffed.

Cheers, re-read it and edited my question.

VikingErik

I never play zerg so I don't have a clue about this, but do spore crawlers still detect cloaked units even when uprooted? If so, could you not just set your crawlers to patrol in your base in order to catch moving cloaked units such as banshees or obs?

I realise they wouldn't do any damage, but wouldn't this be an interesting alternative to having an overseer. (I don't know the cost ratios or hit-point comparison)

Khazidhea

Not to bash you but you dont have to be zerg to no this and you should.

It doesnt. That's probably one of the reason they patched it. Because dt can cause a lot of damage if spore crawler happens to be uprooted.