Patch 1.3.3 PTRE patch notes

Columc

Balance


PROTOSS
Archons are now a massive unit.
Pylon power radius has been decreased from 7.5 to 6.5.


Cybernetics Core
Research Warp Gate time increased from 140 to 180.


Gateway
Sentry train time decreased from 42 to 37.
Stalker train time decreased from 42 to 37.
Zealot train time decreased from 38 to 33.
Warp Gate unit train times remain unchanged.


TERRAN
Ghost
Cost changed from 150/150 to 200/100.


Salvage resource return reduced from 100% to 75%.


ZERG
Spore Crawler<----NOT SPINE CRAWLER
Root time decreased from 12 to 6.


Bug Fixes
Fixed a bug where Ghosts could not quickly EMP the same location.
Fixed a bug where players were still able to stack flying units on top of each other.




So zerg is getting a nice buff to stop harhassment from early void/phoneix pressure to be able to move spore crawelers around easier.



Terran gets a a mineral change on ghosts for the mto be used mor eon infestors which shows that blizzard likes their idiotic infestor buff. Oh look nerf our bunkers now, so it will cost us more money and dealy our stim last patch means we are easy for early abuse.



Some changes for protoss for the PvP situation, with archons being massive to stomp FFs, and pylon matrix decrease by 1 is good, probably for stoping cannon rushes and warping on high/low ground.


However when one cheese stops another one is open, with the decrease build times on gateway units, I say Protoss are gonna be doing their fantastic proxy 2 gate double gateway zealot rush again.





What the **** are blizzard doing, nearly every patch the zealot has changed from build increase from 33 to 38 or decrease from 38 to 33. are they so retarded that they cant balance it out patch after patch and need to always revert back to their old discission.



This **** is ****ing idiotic, balance my ass

DapperGent

There's nothing terrible there for Terran bunker salvage is 25 minerals per, ghosts just got cheaper and fourgate gets a big nerf. I don't anticipate the zealot rush being much more effective either.

So much whinge in that post.

Columc

Are you joking, with the increase in bunker time since the last time the zealots were at 33, the only thing you can really do agianst a properly exactued 3 gate proxy zealot rush was to have a bunker up, but that 5 seconds was crucial.

Whinge?

I'm sorry that I play a race that is the weakest race at the moment that is constantly getting nerfed.

and its not only 25, what about the bunkers that you are gonna use offensivley that you know are gonna be destryed thats fair enough, but now with the way that the meta game is coming espcially in TvP you really need to put down 1/2 bunkers at your main, which is idiotic

Funky

Here is a Funky original composition, to be sung to the tune of Eric Clapton's Tears in Heaven:

Would you know my pain
If you were terran
Would it be the same
If you were terran
I must be strong, and carry on
Cause I know I don't belong
Playing terran

Could you understand
the pain of terran
Would you help me stand
the pain of terran
I'll find my way, through patch changes
Cause I know it just ain't fair
Playing terran

Zerg can bring you down
Toss can bend your knee
Blizzard break your heart
Have you begging please
Begging please

(instrumental)

Beyond the door
There's a patch I'm sure.
And I know there'll be no more...
Tears of terran


Could you understand
the pain of terran
Would you help me stand
the pain of terran
I'll find my way, through patch changes
Cause I know it just ain't fair
Playing terran

But maybe it won't be long.....
Metagaming

Jonny7

How do you think zerg feels about the 2 gate proxy? we can't just wall off our problems.. no bother, sure am so used to scouting for makaracks at this stage anyway it'll be a doddle

At the highest level of the game, Terran are currently the most popular, something crazy like 8 out of top 10 in Europe and 9 out of 10 in Korea at the very top of grandmaster, with the trend continuing through most of grandmaster.. and Blizzard balance the game from the top down.

Every time a patch comes out there are always people going on like its the end of the world, yet I never hear or read a post with people complaining about the barracks after supply depot change - even though they screamed blue murder at the time.. its the same with every patch change

PvP should be a lot more interesting.. and all those people who 4-gated their way into diamond and masters may be at a little bit of a loss (I did the same with protoss)

Actually in general, the warpgate delay is huge, can't wait to see when it comes out how all the top players adapt

Columc

Jonny7 wrote: »

How do you think zerg feels about the 2 gate proxy? we can't just wall off our problems.. no bother, sure am so used to scouting for makaracks at this stage anyway it'll be a doddle

Then don't be greedy zerg going for hatch at 14 and get your pool at 15, and through up your spine crawlers.

What I find hilarious is the balance issues that blizzard aren't dealing with ya 75% to bunker isn't a big deal. When zealots were at 33 and protoss proxy 2 gate our defense was to build a bunker, but with the bunker now increase to 5 and the zealots are reduced by 5 thats a total of 10 seconds delay.

What blizzard are doing is altering one race for their style of play with another race and not thinking about the consequences of it for the other match-ups.

marines were to powerful with a bunker rush against zerg when they fast expand, increase bunker time and stim time. This then made it hard for terran to play against early harsh protoss.

Zerg had massive trouble against protoss, buff the investor to do same damage in half the time. This destroys the TvZ game which medivacs cant heal enough before the rest of the zerg coming in.

Increase warp gate tech and decrease gate way units for PvP, might solve the problem but will cause more problems to the other races with more cheese factor.

The_Keeper

Really looking forward to proxy zealot rushes again.......

Time to start walling in again, which just causes trouble cause Toss can abuse the wall-in and keep T from moving out easily.

IRL_Sinister

F*cking PROTOSS.

Funky

I think this is being blown out of proportion. Proxy gating won't be a standard opener or unbeatable. It's only really a problem on certain maps since it's pretty much a guessing game on 4 player maps. I'm sure a solution can be found even if it's just having to scout earlier or use a second scout to check proxy locations or a safer build order. Two rax pressure is going to be alot scarier too now and that was already hard for Toss. And you can factor in that 3 gate expand is going to be less dangerous. Pretty sure terran are getting the better deal.

Salvage being completely free was ridiculous since forever, I can't see any valid argument for it.

Orizio

Disgusting.

Time to switch to protoss, turtle like a mother****er for 20 minutes, build a zillion warpgates then a-move.

Jonny7

Columc wrote: »

Then don't be greedy zerg going for hatch at 14 and get your pool at 15, and through up your spine crawlers.

What I find hilarious is the balance issues that blizzard aren't dealing with ya 75% to bunker isn't a big deal. When zealots were at 33 and protoss proxy 2 gate our defense was to build a bunker, but with the bunker now increase to 5 and the zealots are reduced by 5 thats a total of 10 seconds delay.

What blizzard are doing is altering one race for their style of play with another race and not thinking about the consequences of it for the other match-ups.

marines were to powerful with a bunker rush against zerg when they fast expand, increase bunker time and stim time. This then made it hard for terran to play against early harsh protoss.

Zerg had massive trouble against protoss, buff the investor to do same damage in half the time. This destroys the TvZ game which medivacs cant heal enough before the rest of the zerg coming in.

Increase warp gate tech and decrease gate way units for PvP, might solve the problem but will cause more problems to the other races with more cheese factor.

Introducing the Terran "wall in":
Place your supply depot at the top of your ramp. Place barracks beside this and shortly after add another supply depot.

Protects against such things as:
Every early zealot/zergling cheese possible

Effect on own economy:
very little

couldn't resist..

Use up drones and drop spinecrawlers just in case? yikes

Khazidhea

The tren has changed to hate on protoss?

Proxy 3 gate? That's just lol. And walling off against protoss is rather bad. Simcity around your CC but dont wall off. Your scv will get harassed and if he proxies INSIDE your base you are dead. Proxying inside the base might get harder to deal with. But if you hold 2 gate proxy (3 gate is like ... dumb) - you won. Proxy in the middle of the map - you can deal with it too. Smart bunker placement and just micro. Yeah it is easier for protoss but than again if you hold it - you win.

The only I problem I can see now is 1 gate proxy inside your base on say Xelnaga Caverns. Not too much of an investment from protoss, not much micro require and terran needs a bunker (and hence gonna lose 25 minerals), if terran doesnt micro his scvs he is even more behind. And it ****s up your timings. I hated when people used to do that on Steppes of War. Not unbeatable but it's so uncofortable. Guess it's like getting bunker rushed when you play zerg

Marauders cant kite archons now ... meh idk. Zergs can deal with banshees easier ... also ok.

Delayed warpgate means new cheese like marine scv all-ins before wg. It's not like they have infinite energy on sentries and they cant reinforce fast enough.

Nothing gamebreaking. Terrans can deal with that Now buff zerg and dont they dare to cry ever again.

P.S. The ghost change is a NICE buff imo. I am thinkg ghost-mech TvP again?

Columc

Jonny7 wrote: »

Introducing the Terran "wall in":
Place your supply depot at the top of your ramp. Place barracks beside this and shortly after add another supply depot.

Protects against such things as:
Every early zealot/zergling cheese possible

Effect on own economy:
very little

couldn't resist..

Use up drones and drop spinecrawlers just in case? yikes

1) by doing a wall off and second your rax is down you build a second supply, this then screws up a lot of builds if you wanted to fast expand/double rax/ pretty much anything except 1/1/1. If you do not build the second supply straight after the rax the timings should be enough for the gate to be finished and have a zealot in your base.

2) walling off against a protoss is just bad for everything, stalkers have enough range to harass your supply depo


To really defend these you do need to drop your bunker straight away if you scout the cheese, but what im getting at is the last patch with the increase of bunker time by 5 seconds, and now the decrease in zealot 5 seconds is equal to 10 seconds befor your bunker can go up befor in the last patches, which is quite a long time.

Patches come and patches go, but I just feel that with the constant switching(6 times zealot times have changed) you think blizzard should have gotten it right by now.

IRL_Sinister

Walling off against Toss :_DDDDDDDDDDD

Jonny7

Columc wrote: »

1) by doing a wall off and second your rax is down you build a second supply, this then screws up a lot of builds if you wanted to fast expand/double rax/ pretty much anything except 1/1/1. If you do not build the second supply straight after the rax the timings should be enough for the gate to be finished and have a zealot in your base.

2) walling off against a protoss is just bad for everything, stalkers have enough range to harass your supply depo


To really defend these you do need to drop your bunker straight away if you scout the cheese, but what im getting at is the last patch with the increase of bunker time by 5 seconds, and now the decrease in zealot 5 seconds is equal to 10 seconds befor your bunker can go up befor in the last patches, which is quite a long time.

Patches come and patches go, but I just feel that with the constant switching(6 times zealot times have changed) you think blizzard should have gotten it right by now.

1) on what maps? they are pretty huge now.. can only think of Xalnaga caverns as possible culprit, and even then everyone is paranoid of cheese there

2) tell that to half the players in code S and code A

bunch of melodramatic girlymen!

/everything's been changed 5 or 6 times since blizzcon release
http://www.starcraft-source.com/unitdatabase/build/view/?id=1
Look at zerg for a right drubbing.. aahh I remember the days of armored 1 supply roaches, fast queens, quick bury spines, higher hp hydras all on the same patch

IRL_Sinister

Walling off against Protoss is retarded. When you're in either Masters or Code A/S come back to me.

Orizio

Jonny7 wrote: »

2) tell that to half the players in code S and code A

Example of a terran Code S or A playing walling off in TvP.

Columc

Jonny7 wrote: »

1) on what maps? they are pretty huge now.. can only think of Xalnaga caverns as possible culprit, and even then everyone is paranoid of cheese there

2) tell that to half the players in code S and code A

bunch of melodramatic girlymen!

/everything's been changed 5 or 6 times since blizzcon release
http://www.starcraft-source.com/unitdatabase/build/view/?id=1
Look at zerg for a right drubbing.. aahh I remember the days of armored 1 supply roaches, fast queens, quick bury spines, higher hp hydras all on the same patch

pretty hugh= hiding a proxy 2 gate zealot all in, with crono you can get a zealot out in 23 seconds, no way your going to have if you even try to wall off 2 supply and rax at your ramp.

And all of those are from the the beta, sure you can go on how banshess had an aoe volley or thors were made by an scv. But the patches with zealot build time has been changed on release patches, not beta.


And if and only if players in code a/s wall off it is to hide tech not to defend against a rush. there is a diffrence to hiding tech and tuterling

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

Orizio wrote: »

Example of a terran Code S or A playing walling off in TvP.

loads of terran pros have been walling off v P lately

Orizio

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

loads of terran pros have been walling off v P lately

For example...?

Funky

Rain walled off vs Inca today in GSL Code S.

Jonny7

jaysus.. watch the games in code a/s, nasl, ipl, even the team leagues, how many terrans still put buildings at top of ramp v protoss? I see stalkers shooting depots perched at the top of ramps in my dreams for heavensake

with the new patch, if 2 gate proxy detected, then add 2rd supply depot immediately and pull scvs

Maps have also vastly increased in size compared to last time zealots had a 23 second chrono buildtime

New patch - PvP more fun, less 4 gating, more interesting early games from protoss, possibility of cheese, mm big change of metagame.. the universe is not going to implode.. terran are still the top performing race, in almost every aspect, from grandmaster to GSL

NeoSlicerZ

There's also a thing called "micro."

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

you try microing 2-3 marines against zealots being sent one after another into your base!

Orizio

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

you try microing 2-3 marines against zealots being sent one after another into your base!

You seem guaranteed to lose at least a few SCVs giving the toss a good econ advantage.

NeoSlicerZ

Do you people not realise how bad of an eco you have when you proxy 2 gate. Seriously, you can defend a 6p without walling fairly easily.

seraphimvc

i wrote this :pac: was intended to be abit 'flamey' on tl since i love to aggro the mods there :P boardsies please take this lightly:

i find it funny how blizzard's logic works - they like to neff a thing and buff a thing on the same subject, as if the subject is balanced to begin with lol

toss:did they forget why they neff the 33s zealot in the first place??? back in my bronze days was nightmare to deal with early mass zealot rush, which is actually still kinda difficult to deal with now if you didnt make the right response in time O.o (ofc this is for zerg...) 4gate neff is needed anyway.

terran: again i like blizz's logic on making ghost(a tech unit, a CASTER) needs less gas to produce. we all know terran's mins always piling high after 5mins in game, they now have more unit combo to make sitting on 2 bases lol
and ya, 25min per bunker now, kinda a justified change (and no, unless it takes a scv to salvage the bunker, i still think it should be 50% return the resource)

zerg: pathetic, or even funnier? ok we know that by now blizz knows we have 'weak' AA, so they give spore a drastic 6s rooting change (12s ->6s is HUGE). they owe us this since long time ago and this change still cannot change the fact that zerg has extremely weak AA.

i dont see all of these changes make it out of ptr (i hope).

IRL_Sinister

I really don't get the problem here... if you're bad enough to lose against proxy 2gate you deserve to lose :S

Just realised I already commented here: The above comment still doesn't change what I said, walling off against Protoss is retarded. We have things called Bunkers and reapers.

NeoSlicerZ

I dislike the change in warp gate purely for the sake that pvp is already evolving away from it except maybe purely in a ladder setting because people have learned how to beat it. It is way more viable to dump the 3-4 chronos you would have spent on warp gate into chronoing out more stuff earlier, you can like way delay warp gate and reach the Z/T with a same strength push earlier position dependent I think but I think this is too major of a change combined with the gateway change, the matchups were just beginning to settle again.

RoyalMarine

irl_sinister and Sir Digby Chicken Caesar cop the hell on and take it to Mirc for the shít talk.

no more of this nonsense on here.

Jonny7

Orizio wrote: »

Example of a terran Code S or A playing walling off in TvP.

The code S game I am watching right now, Trickster v Ensnare on XelNaga caverns

Look, quit the moaning, if Terran players (I reached high diamond terran myself) lose to this soon-to-be 2 gate proxy then its our fault not the game. Scout and wall if you see it, christ you'd think 6 pools never existed.