steriods

Tonto86

There's been a bit of trollin bout this today.... but it got me curious.

Who's using steriods and why? What's the general attitude towards them.

I don't but think everyone to their own. Have seen guys in the gym, and friends, shoot up in weight. 3 young lads in particular (bout 18) must of put on 2 stone each in a mont

jive

Not using them but I can answer 'why' pretty easily. Rapid results. It might take 10 years to get big naturally, and 2 years cycling steroids to get big.

TPR86

Personally not using them . I dont see anything wrong with using them if you have been training for a few years and eating correctly . What I dont like tho is people using them in sports and young lads who have just started training taking them .

Bigger Faster Stronger is a great documentary about steroid use in America .:D

squod

....that's what i heard anyways

dartstothesea

Doubt anyone on here is and if they were on here they wouldn't talk about it, since there's a slew of their peers probably ready to shun 'em over it.
Edit: Oh, haha, just saw the earlier threads. I should've just lolled at this one too.

SanoVitae

I've never taken steroids but a lot of people do think I've taken them.

Sadly not because I've got a great physique - I just look like I'm suffering many of their horrible side effects.....

deadlybuzzman

Ive read up loads on them and came to the conclusion that
1. Its not an easy shortcut because you still have to bust your balls and eat like famine 2011 starts tomorrow
2. if you do it wrong you can wreck your body forever

based on point 2. ill never do them, because of point 1 some guys I know should never have bothered.
A great point I read on T nation from a member of the darkside was that for most people "milk is more anabolic that steroids" and while maybe not being completely true there is alot in that. if you can be bothered with 4L of milk per day then dont even bother.

itsallaboutheL

dartstothesea wrote: »

Doubt anyone on here is and if they were on here they wouldn't talk about it, since there's a slew of their peers probably ready to shun 'em over it.
Edit: Oh, haha, just saw the earlier threads. I should've just lolled at this one too.

I can't imagine many here would give two craps if another poster was "on", what gave you that impression?

SanoVitae

itsallaboutheL wrote: »

I can't imagine many here would give two craps if another poster was "on", what gave you that impression?

Hmmm - I'm not so sure.

Lets say it's a poster on Boards who makes a career out of being in great shape and their physique is a major reason why people hire them as a personal trainer.

If such a person was to actually admit it, it would destroy their career because everyone would then view any advice they give with total suspicion.

Tonto86

Bigger Faster Stronger is a great documentary about steroid use in America .:D

just watched this.... its very good alright

the drifter

SanoVitae wrote: »

Hmmm - I'm not so sure.

Lets say it's a poster on Boards who makes a career out of being in great shape and their physique is a major reason why people hire them as a personal trainer.

If such a person was to actually admit it, it would destroy their career because everyone would then view any advice they give with total suspicion.

well thats a load of bollox then...if someone on here is a PT and is "on" and is telling people they can get in great shape by doing x and y...mean while there fridge looks like something out of vets surgery...well then there a lying son of a bitch...

the drifter

Tonto86 wrote: »

just watched this.... its very good alright

you need to sleep more....

TeddyTedson

I read up quite a bit about them recently.
The testicle issues alone would put me off.

gymsoldier

TeddyTedson wrote: »

I read up quite a bit about them recently.
The testicle issues alone would put me off.

Testicular Atrophy can happen on some cycles, but is not guaranteed to happen. Some drugs will not "shut you down".

On the note of steroids, they are so common in gyms its unreal. Ive even known alot of women to be taken Clenbuterol to loose weight :eek:.

Just as "deadlybuzzman" noted, there are alot of younger adults (18 year olds in particular, training for the SCT) that due to competetion in sports and other reasons are "on cycle". The immature attitude of "more is better" has the poteinial to cause health problems with the liver from high doses of oral steroids aswell. The bigger problem I see with health risk from lack of knowledge is poor, or no, PCT. This is going to cause havoc with the endocrine system.

metamorphosis

Id say the sly little digs at others are probably best left for facebook.

itsallaboutheL

the drifter wrote: »

well thats a load of bollox then...if someone on here is a PT and is "on" and is telling people they can get in great shape by doing x and y...mean while there fridge looks like something out of vets surgery...well then there a lying son of a bitch...

I dont agree. You're basically saying that once somebody is taking peds their knowledge is voided!

cc87

itsallaboutheL wrote: »

I dont agree. You're basically saying that once somebody is taking peds their knowledge is voided!

Exactly, if that was the case, arnies book should be burned by everyone

DL Saint

gymsoldier wrote: »

Testicular Atrophy can happen on some cycles, but is not guaranteed to happen. Some drugs will not "shut you down".

On the note of steroids, they are so common in gyms its unreal. Ive even known alot of women to be taken Clenbuterol to loose weight :eek:.

Just as "deadlybuzzman" noted, there are alot of younger adults (18 year olds in particular, training for the SCT) that due to competetion in sports and other reasons are "on cycle". The immature attitude of "more is better" has the poteinial to cause health problems with the liver from high doses of oral steroids aswell. The bigger problem I see with health risk from lack of knowledge is poor, or no, PCT. This is going to cause havoc with the endocrine system.

Isn't Clenbuterol used to treat asthma? Is it technically a steroid?

The Rugby thing is very true. I know of some lads who have taken pro-hormones or have done a few cycles to get "big", it's beyond a joke :rolleyes:

Just on Testicular Atrophy, doesen't a well followed PCT reverse/lessen this side-affect?

gymsoldier

DL Saint wrote: »

Isn't Clenbuterol used to treat asthma? Is it technically a steroid?

The Rugby thing is very true. I know of some lads who have taken pro-hormones or have done a few cycles to get "big", it's beyond a joke :rolleyes:

Just on Testicular Atrophy, doesen't a well followed PCT reverse/lessen this side-affect?

Clenbuterol is steroid alright, banned by WADA aswell, taken orally its used as a fat burner. There was a recent scandle in the GAA awhile back when a GAA player got banned for using it, he said it was from his inhaler.

PCT involving HGC will get the ball rolling again, excuse the pun. There are certain steroids that will cause TA greater then others.

Pro-Hormones aslo require PCT, and OCT test booasters wont do. Thats even more examples of young adults non educated in this subject poteinially ruining their bodies.

*excuse all the spelling mistakes, in abit of a rush

Brian?

gymsoldier wrote: »

Clenbuterol is steroid alright, banned by WADA aswell, taken orally its used as a fat burner. There was a recent scandle in the GAA awhile back when a GAA player got banned for using it, he said it was from his inhaler.

PCT involving HGC will get the ball rolling again, excuse the pun. There are certain steroids that will cause TA greater then others.

Pro-Hormones aslo require PCT, and OCT test booasters wont do. Thats even more examples of young adults non educated in this subject poteinially ruining their bodies.

*excuse all the spelling mistakes, in abit of a rush

Lets avoid this becoming an advise thread. Thanks

SanoVitae

itsallaboutheL wrote: »

I dont agree. You're basically saying that once somebody is taking peds their knowledge is voided!

It's their credibility, not their knowledge, which is voided.

In Arnie's case, as with any professional bodybuilder, we all know he was on steroids.

In the case of a personal trainer, most people expect that if they train as hard/eat as well as them, they will eventually end up with a similar physique.

This is obviously impossible if the PT is/has been on gear and the client is 100% natural.

DL Saint

gymsoldier wrote: »

Clenbuterol is steroid alright, banned by WADA aswell, taken orally its used as a fat burner. There was a recent scandle in the GAA awhile back when a GAA player got banned for using it, he said it was from his inhaler.

PCT involving HGC will get the ball rolling again, excuse the pun. There are certain steroids that will cause TA greater then others.

Pro-Hormones aslo require PCT, and OCT test booasters wont do. Thats even more examples of young adults non educated in this subject poteinially ruining their bodies.

*excuse all the spelling mistakes, in abit of a rush

Cheers for that, I know of people using it as a fat burner because thay are too lazy to follow a proper diet , These are the same kind of people who would eat a big mac and justify eating it by saying it contains X amounts of protein :rolleyes:

Ye I heard PH's require a PCT, and I know of some people who completely neglect that.

Their does seem to be a large number of teenagers who are taking PH's though. Products like "Havoc" and "Jungle Warfare" are becoming ever more common. Their really needs to be more focus on educating youths on the dangers of taking all of this kind of stuff at such a young age, however this can't really be done because they are Illegal and the issue is swept under the rug. This country drives me mad sometimes.

*sorry for the rant.

Tigger

SanoVitae wrote: »

It's their credibility, not their knowledge, which is voided.

In Arnie's case, as with any professional bodybuilder, we all know he was on steroids.

In the case of a personal trainer, most people expect that if they train as hard/eat as well as them, they will eventually end up with a similar physique.

This is obviously impossible if the PT is/has been on gear and the client is 100% natural.

you keep hinting that you know something

the drifter

SanoVitae wrote: »

It's their credibility, not their knowledge, which is voided.

In Arnie's case, as with any professional bodybuilder, we all know he was on steroids.

In the case of a personal trainer, most people expect that if they train as hard/eat as well as them, they will eventually end up with a similar physique.

This is obviously impossible if the PT is/has been on gear and the client is 100% natural.

This is what i meant...he just said it better...

ragg

gymsoldier wrote: »

Clenbuterol is steroid alright, banned by WADA aswell, taken orally its used as a fat burner.

Quite dangerous though isn't it. I know the effects are pretty dramatic, but i think it speeds up the heart and raises body temp etc?

I'd imagine the potential for stroke, heart attack etc must be pretty high. Also, it doesn't stay effective indefintely which is concerning.

squod

ragg wrote: »

I know the effects are pretty dramatic, but i think it speeds up the heart and raises body temp etc?

Read somewhere that working out and being in love do likewise. There's a handy chart about steroid side effects I found online.

The Davestator

In my opinion, a lot of the perceived side effects are from the older steroids back in the 70/80's. A lot of the newer ones are fairly safe as far as I can tell by reading both sides of the argument.

cc87

A lot of posters like that seem to highlight worst case scenarios, which could be applied to anything, legal or illegal, you choose to put into your body really.

Hanley

cc87 wrote: »

A lot of posters like that seem to highlight worst case scenarios, which could be applied to anything, legal or illegal, you choose to put into your body really.

It's like saying drinking results in a liver transplant.

SanoVitae

Hanley wrote: »

It's like saying drinking results in a liver transplant.

It does when the drinking is in the same type of quantities of some of those who were at your fight last night!

jive

From what I've read I'd rather go the illegal route and do steroids than chance legal prohormones (not sure if they are legal here as what I've read comes from US articles). Also as far as I'm concerned steroids can't be as bad as they are made out to be; Arnie & co. from the golden era are still kicking around (Serge Nubret died the other day but he was 73). I wouldn't be going mad on them at the same time if I was using them.

Like mentioned previously Bigger, Faster, Stronger is a good movie. Very informative and at least it gives both side of the argument. I think steroids today is similar to marijuana years ago - some terrible substance that shouldn't be touched. Yet both are used medically and both have been shown to be very effective at what they do. I've taken steroids (not anabolic) prescribed medically and I'm still here.

SanoVitae

I remember reading an interview with Mike Mentzer, who was a HUGE influence on me as a teenager.

His opinion is steroids was that there was absolutely nothing wrong with taking them but that there was a big problem with lying about using them.

He spoke disdainfully of a female champion bodybuilder who claimed to be drug-free yet clearly wasn't. He never mentioned her by name, but my guess would be Cory Everson.

Degsy

Certainly not something i'd recomend to somebody who just wants bigger biceps..the impact on your moods alone can seriously mess you up..just my two cents worth.

DL Saint

SanoVitae wrote: »

I remember reading an interview with Mike Mentzer, who was a HUGE influence on me as a teenager.

His opinion is steroids was that there was absolutely nothing wrong with taking them but that there was a big problem with lying about using them.

He spoke disdainfully of a female champion bodybuilder who claimed to be drug-free yet clearly wasn't. He never mentioned her by name, but my guess would be Cory Everson.

Didn't Mentzer used to also eat monkey brains because they contained growth hormones? Sick lad!

SanoVitae

DL Saint wrote: »

Didn't Mentzer used to also eat monkey brains because they contained growth hormones? Sick lad!

With Mentzer, it's difficult to seperate fact from fiction because some of the most ridiculous rumours about him are actually true!

Total genius though IMO.

Hanley

SanoVitae wrote: »

With Mentzer, it's difficult to seperate fact from fiction because some of the most ridiculous rumours about him are actually true!

Total genius though IMO.

I always thought super high intensity training was the way forward.

SanoVitae

It wasn't even his approach to training which interested me most - it was his whole understanding and application of philosophy to bodybuilding.

He basically opened up a whole new world to me in that regard - making me check out people like Ayn Rand, one of his heroes.

A little bit different from all the ghost-written articles in Flex, which basically implied that Joe Weider invented bodybuilding and no-one before him had a clue how to build muscle.....

SanoVitae

Hanley wrote: »

I always thought super high intensity training was the way forward.

Heavy Doodie!

BlastedGlute

Excess in moderation is the key. If your going to do something that in itself is probably excessive to purpose(getting big just to be a gym rat and not a pro) then keep a lid on it. Know your upper limits and play by the rules. I don't drink much/at all, a few beers a year if anything. But if I did I certainly wouldn't end up like an immobile degenerate, unable to move or speak and throwing up on myself,pissing my pants etc. That's excess with no moderation. And as the side effects listed in the picture above, those are the results of excess. The same would happen if I jacked up my multiple vitamin intake 1000% of RDA.

Oh and Arnold has been a number 1 idol of mine for as many years as I can remember.

SanoVitae

BlastedGlute wrote: »

Excess in moderation is the key.

That's what I always say - you never want to indulge in any excessive excess......

gymsoldier

DL Saint wrote: »

Their does seem to be a large number of teenagers who are taking PH's though. Products like "Havoc" and "Jungle Warfare" are becoming ever more common. Their really needs to be more focus on educating youths on the dangers of taking all of this kind of stuff at such a young age, however this can't really be done because they are Illegal and the issue is swept under the rug. This country drives me mad sometimes.

*sorry for the rant.

As far as Im aware, these are all banned too. Most consider Havoc a steroid, Espistane is mention in William Llewellyn's new edition of Anabolics too.

ragg wrote: »

Quite dangerous though isn't it. I know the effects are pretty dramatic, but i think it speeds up the heart and raises body temp etc?

I'd imagine the potential for stroke, heart attack etc must be pretty high. Also, it doesn't stay effective indefintely which is concerning.

Yes it speeds up everything. I honestly dont know how much more I can say about it with out it being construed as advice.

squod wrote: »

Read somewhere that working out and being in love do likewise. There's a handy chart about steroid side effects I found online.

I love the way its an overweight teenager as the model in this picture, and not some jacked up dude

The Davestator wrote: »

In my opinion, a lot of the perceived side effects are from the older steroids back in the 70/80's. A lot of the newer ones are fairly safe as far as I can tell by reading both sides of the argument.

The only difference from the 70/80's is that the majority of top bodybuilding pro's these day have "GH Gut".

cc87 wrote: »

A lot of posters like that seem to highlight worst case scenarios, which could be applied to anything, legal or illegal, you choose to put into your body really.

This is a good article to read:

http://rxmuscle.com/articles/latest-news/2232-alcohol-more-harmful-than-crack-or-heroin.html

jive wrote: »

From what I've read I'd rather go the illegal route and do steroids than chance legal prohormones (not sure if they are legal here as what I've read comes from US articles). Also as far as I'm concerned steroids can't be as bad as they are made out to be; Arnie & co. from the golden era are still kicking around (Serge Nubret died the other day but he was 73). I wouldn't be going mad on them at the same time if I was using them.

Like mentioned previously Bigger, Faster, Stronger is a good movie. Very informative and at least it gives both side of the argument. I think steroids today is similar to marijuana years ago - some terrible substance that shouldn't be touched. Yet both are used medically and both have been shown to be very effective at what they do. I've taken steroids (not anabolic) prescribed medically and I'm still here.

Serge Nubret was posioned :mad:

cc87

gymsoldier wrote: »

This is a good article to read:

http://rxmuscle.com/articles/latest-news/2232-alcohol-more-harmful-than-crack-or-heroin.html

Ya BBCs Horizon did a show on something similar before as well, it listed 20 drugs according to the risk of death from addiction i think. But alcohol was third behind heroin and something else cant remember.

mushykeogh

DL Saint wrote: »

Isn't Clenbuterol used to treat asthma? Is it technically a steroid?

No, Salbutamol is in inhalers. A steroid technically, used for bronchdilation. Permitted once you have your TUE.

DL Saint

gymsoldier wrote: »

As far as Im aware, these are all banned too. Most consider Havoc a steroid, Espistane is mention in William Llewellyn's new edition of Anabol

Oh yes they are 100% banned, That was kind of my point. It's still very easy for people to get them behind the counter in some supplement shops or even just order them from the states. I would agree with you that Havoc is a steroid, however I know of some people who are using it who refuse to believe it is :rolleyes:
Hence the need for better education on the matter. I mean, I went to a secondary school where rugby was a big sport. My school actually payed money for someone to come in and talk to us about the dangers of whey and basically that creatine was the devil. Little did they know of the amount of people taking PH's in the school who don't know how to cycle/recover properly.

Hanley

mushykeogh wrote: »

No, Salbutamol is in inhalers. A steroid technically, used for bronchdilation. Permitted once you have your TUE.

I was going to say the exact same, but then went to check and make sure I wasn't wrong. And it turned out I was.... Clen is used to treat asthma!

itsallaboutheL

*cough cough cough cough*






*wheeze*

Hanley

itsallaboutheL wrote: »

*cough cough cough cough*






*wheeze*

The fat from your arteries spilling over into our air ways?

itsallaboutheL

That yellow stuff is PFW Cholesterol, not fat.

squod

itsallaboutheL wrote: »

*cough cough cough cough*






*wheeze*

I've been struggling not to take that stuff for years (expensive). I could have been huge!!*












*may require less laziness

JJayoo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7WUHVA9lqE

Interesting vid

dartstothesea

Wow, interesting what he says about max strength training not having any trade off with endurance or anything else. Didn't know this. Anyone agree/disagree? Might he be really talking about power/weightlifting training?