Chip on my shoulder? Third level graduates.

couldntthink

Why do so many people with a third level education think they're better/smarter/socially superior than people who don't have one.

Even on boards when people talk about idiotic things that people say, I see things like "s/he said that. And they went to university!!!"

It really pisses me off. Just because you've gone through third level education doesn't make you any more intelligent or upper class.

I was accepted to NUIG and GMIT etc, had a good leaving cert, and even did an engineering course for a while. Wasn't for me, dropped out and did a trade instead. I now enjoy my work, earn good money, and I am very nearly my own boss, all within 2 years of finishing. I have travelled all over the world and never had trouble getting work.

However I still notice a certain attitude from people who have a degree or a cert or whatever. They sometimes talk to you like they're somehow better than you. I have even had instances of people like this trying to tell me how to do my job. Even in the media I have noticed this attitude from time to time.

I consider myself to be broad minded, well read, and quite knowledgable on a lot of things. I know a lot of graduates who are one step short of a certified clown who make me wonder how the hell did they make it through the day, nevermind college.

I know I've got quite a chip on my shoulder, but am I the only one who sees this.

Please don't say anything like "ignore them/live your life etc etc". This pisses me off and saying that kind of **** won't dissipate my anger. I just want to hear if anyone else sees this.

Biggins

Hahahahahahahahahahaha

Who the frak nominated tonight After Hours, Claire Rainer night!

ArtSmart

assuming a/ your post is for real and b/ you're ready for the upcoming onslaught, let me say this.


3rd level education itself is a good thing. try it.

Dudess

couldntthink wrote: »

I know I've got quite a chip on my shoulder, but am I the only one who sees this.

Is your chosen trade carpentry?

Storminateacup

hahah gmit.


what did you do in that college? bogsnorkling?

jive

College is easy I don't understand why people think they are intelligent just because they have a degree. There are so many clowns in college and I know people will say "OH BUT ENGINEERING/SCIENCE/MEDICINE/input course are so hard" but they're really not. You study what you're given, you go in and do a few exams at the end of every year. Any half wit could get a degree.

(coming from someone who is doing a degree)

ArtSmart

Storminateacup wrote: »

hahah gmit.


what did you do in that college? bogsnorkling?

er, the PC term is muffdiving.

Blondini

couldntthink wrote: »

Why do so many people with a third level education think they're better/smarter/socially superior than people who don't have one.

Even on boards when people talk about idiotic things that people say, I see things like "s/he said that. And they went to university!!!"

It really pisses me off. Just because you've gone through third level education doesn't make you any more intelligent or upper class.

I was accepted to NUIG and GMIT etc, had a good leaving cert, and even did an engineering course for a while. Wasn't for me, dropped out and did a trade instead. I now enjoy my work, earn good money, and I am very nearly my own boss, all within 2 years of finishing. I have travelled all over the world and never had trouble getting work.

However I still notice a certain attitude from people who have a degree or a cert or whatever. They sometimes talk to you like they're somehow better than you. I have even had instances of people like this trying to tell me how to do my job. Even in the media I have noticed this attitude from time to time.

I consider myself to be broad minded, well read, and quite knowledgable on a lot of things. I know a lot of graduates who are one step short of a certified clown who make me wonder how the hell did they make it through the day, nevermind college.

I know I've got quite a chip on my shoulder, but am I the only one who sees this.

Please don't say anything like "ignore them/live your life etc etc". This pisses me off and saying that kind of **** won't dissipate my anger. I just want to hear if anyone else sees this.

I have a degree and I am better than you.

JoseJones

Sounds like an inferiority complex to me tbh.

Havermeyer

ArtSmart wrote: »

assuming a/ your post is for real and b/ you're ready for the upcoming onslaught, let me say this.


3rd level education itself is a good thing. try it.

I believe the OP stated in his OP that he did try it.

couldntthink

ArtSmart wrote: »

assuming a/ your post is for real and b/ you're ready for the upcoming onslaught, let me say this.


3rd level education itself is a good thing. try it.

I know, I am ready for it. I'm pretty sure there are more graduates than tradesmen on boards anyway.

And read the OP again. I did try it. And I agree it is a good thing. Obviously it is. It's not for me and that's fine. My problem is with the people who think it makes them superior to people who didn't.

oppenheimer1

couldntthink wrote: »

Why do so many people with a third level education think they're better/smarter/socially superior than people who don't have one.

Even on boards when people talk about idiotic things that people say, I see things like "s/he said that. And they went to university!!!"

It really pisses me off. Just because you've gone through third level education doesn't make you any more intelligent or upper class.

I was accepted to NUIG and GMIT etc, had a good leaving cert, and even did an engineering course for a while. Wasn't for me, dropped out and did a trade instead. I now enjoy my work, earn good money, and I am very nearly my own boss, all within 2 years of finishing. I have travelled all over the world and never had trouble getting work.

However I still notice a certain attitude from people who have a degree or a cert or whatever. They sometimes talk to you like they're somehow better than you. I have even had instances of people like this trying to tell me how to do my job. Even in the media I have noticed this attitude from time to time.

I consider myself to be broad minded, well read, and quite knowledgable on a lot of things. I know a lot of graduates who are one step short of a certified clown who make me wonder how the hell did they make it through the day, nevermind college.

I know I've got quite a chip on my shoulder, but am I the only one who sees this.

Please don't say anything like "ignore them/live your life etc etc". This pisses me off and saying that kind of **** won't dissipate my anger. I just want to hear if anyone else sees this.

When a graduate says something stupid people find it surprising as it requires an above average degree of intelligence to complete a university education.

As for yourself, with the increased affordability of university since the mid nineties, a lack of a university education often showed a lack of ambition or a lower intellect. Of course there are exceptions (like yourself) but generally this holds true and its where the prejudice stems from

orourkeda

Blondini wrote: »

I have a degree and I am better than you.

You must be a law graduate

JoseJones

jive wrote: »

College is easy I don't understand why people think they are intelligent just because they have a degree. There are so many clowns in college and I know people will say "OH BUT ENGINEERING/SCIENCE/MEDICINE/input course are so hard" but they're really not. You study what you're given, you go in and do a few exams at the end of every year. Any half wit could get a degree.

(coming from someone who is doing a degree)

Do you mind me asking what you study?

couldntthink

Blondini wrote: »

I have a degree and I am better than you.

At least you come out and say it like you see it.:D

Storminateacup

Clearly Jives not studying english since he seems to be a bit stingy with the full stops.

jive

JoseJones wrote: »

Do you mind me asking what you study?

Medicine but I'm not sure why that's relevant.

desertcircus

JoseJones wrote: »

Do you mind me asking what you study?

Medicenginience, I'd guess...

ArtSmart

jive wrote: »

College is easy I don't understand why people think they are intelligent just because they have a degree. There are so many clowns in college and I know people will say "OH BUT ENGINEERING/SCIENCE/MEDICINE/input course are so hard" but they're really not. You study what you're given, you go in and do a few exams at the end of every year. Any half wit could get a degree.

(coming from someone who is doing a degree)

and some full wits.

i actually know someone who may not have opposable thumbs qualifying this year

previous user

Does it really matter these days, we're all pretty much equally unemployed.

Dudess

Can't say I've encountered many instances of it tbh - the odd time yeah: good idiot filter though.
OP, and I don't mean this in a smart way, but do you maybe have a regret you didn't complete third level? Not that there's anything wrong with not doing so (and it doesn't make a person more intelligent - it does however give the mind a good workout, even if you're a crammer; you still learn lots) and a trade is hugely beneficial too, but when you have the ability to complete third level, are you maybe wondering "What if?"

theboss80

Hope your trade was in Formwork Carpentry so you literally can build a bridge and get over it

JoseJones

jive wrote: »

Medicine but I'm not sure why that's relevant.

It is relevant because it's the only one (unless you did another course too) you're qualified to give an opinion on, so don't assume every other course is like that.

desertcircus

Also: I'm not sure it's fair to class people as snobs on the basis of the line about "they even went to university and still said that". On a strictly logical basis, it says nothing about people who didn't go to college, simply that people who did should be smart enough (assuming some degree of smarts is required to get a degree) to avoid saying obviously stupid stuff.

It's like saying "I can't believe he couldn't catch up with the bus. He plays football and all"; it's not an implication that non-footballers are bad, just that you'd expect a certain minimum fitness level from footballers.

ArtSmart

nummnutts wrote: »

I believe the OP stated in his OP that he did try it.

couldntthink wrote: »

I know, I am ready for it. I'm pretty sure there are more graduates than tradesmen on boards anyway.

And read the OP again. I did try it. And I agree it is a good thing. Obviously it is. It's not for me and that's fine. My problem is with the people who think it makes them superior to people who didn't.

yes, but i'm reading between the lines.

IOW why post this topic at all, ultimately?

so try it. again. though i would imagine something in arts like English would prob suit better.

rubensni

I've met some real boneheads with degrees. Having a third level education has more to do with class than mental ability.

jive

JoseJones wrote: »

It is relevant because it's the only one (unless you did another course too) you're qualified to give an opinion on, so don't assume every other course is like that.

I did another course as well. Can I give my opinion on that? I also have friends doing various other degrees, can I not pass my opinion on what I've been told from other courses?

You sound like you find college very difficult. Perhaps you are struggling because you are in the wrong course?

Also given the retards I know that have gotten degrees from various colleges in various different subjects I can draw my conclusions from that.

KittyeeTrix

jive wrote: »

College is easy I don't understand why people think they are intelligent just because they have a degree. There are so many clowns in college and I know people will say "OH BUT ENGINEERING/SCIENCE/MEDICINE/input course are so hard" but they're really not. You study what you're given, you go in and do a few exams at the end of every year. Any half wit could get a degree.

(coming from someone who is doing a degree)

Any half wit can get a degree is something I would agree with but at the same time it takes a bit of hard work to get a decent degree.
Doing science myself and being honest I find it tough going to keep getting A's and B's in my exams and assignments.....
If I was happy enough to just settle for passing my exams then I'd probably be able to say it was easier.
Edit: I'm not implying that you don't get high grades Jive, just saying that I don't find it that easy:)

Havermeyer

Why not try reading the lines, rather than between them.

By your reasoning, why post any topic then? It's as valid a question as any I've seen in this forum of late.

jive

fluffyorganic1 wrote: »

Any half wit can get a degree is something I would agree with but at the same time it takes a bit of hard work to get a decent degree.
Doing science myself and being honest I find it tough going to keep getting A's and B's in my exams and assignments.....
If I was happy enough to just settle for passing my exams then I'd probably be able to say it was easier.

Yes, I'd agree that it's definitely difficult to get a 1st, perhaps a 2.1 could also be considered difficult; those 2 are pretty much what you need to be competitive at least. Any spastic can get a degree here (not sure how it is in other countries), the proof is in the pudding. I know plenty of dopes with degrees. So anyone who acts elitist due to having a degree can go suck a lemon because there is nothing to be elitist about.

flahavaj

couldntthink wrote: »

Why do so many people with a third level education think they're better/smarter/socially superior than people who don't have one.

Even on boards when people talk about idiotic things that people say, I see things like "s/he said that. And they went to university!!!"

It really pisses me off. Just because you've gone through third level education doesn't make you any more intelligent or upper class.

I was accepted to NUIG and GMIT etc, had a good leaving cert, and even did an engineering course for a while. Wasn't for me, dropped out and did a trade instead. I now enjoy my work, earn good money, and I am very nearly my own boss, all within 2 years of finishing. I have travelled all over the world and never had trouble getting work.

However I still notice a certain attitude from people who have a degree or a cert or whatever. They sometimes talk to you like they're somehow better than you. I have even had instances of people like this trying to tell me how to do my job. Even in the media I have noticed this attitude from time to time.

I consider myself to be broad minded, well read, and quite knowledgable on a lot of things. I know a lot of graduates who are one step short of a certified clown who make me wonder how the hell did they make it through the day, nevermind college.

I know I've got quite a chip on my shoulder, but am I the only one who sees this.

Please don't say anything like "ignore them/live your life etc etc". This pisses me off and saying that kind of **** won't dissipate my anger. I just want to hear if anyone else sees this.

You sound very bitter for someone who claims to be so happy about their life choices.

ArtSmart

nummnutts wrote: »

Why not try reading the lines, rather than between them.

By your reasoning, why post any topic then? It's as valid a question as any I've seen in this forum of late.

WTF? chill nummnuts. I'm genuinely offering advice to a post which is - on it's face value alone - without meaning or purpose. (IMO)

i chose to look deeper.

so sue me.

(please dont sue me, last case nearly crippled me)

jive

Storminateacup wrote: »

Clearly Jives not studying english since he seems to be a bit stingy with the full stops.

Didn't realise I was being so harshly critiqued on my boards.ie posts i'll do btr nxt tym

tightropetom

OP - I'm a college graduate. Finished medicine in 2002 and, believe it or not, I HATE the way people treat me differently when they hear what my job is. The issue is - I don't see myself as better/smarter just because of my education, other people make that rather rash judgement all by themselves. I have spend the best part of the last 17 years as a part time musician and would much rather get kudos for that and be accepted for what I am (a musician) rather than what I do. College grads generally don't think they're better than non-college grads (or at least most of my mates don't - of course I have more musician friends than doctor friends!). It's mOre of a perception thing. Appearances can deceive.

JoseJones

jive wrote: »

I did another course as well. Can I give my opinion on that? I also have friends doing various other degrees, can I not pass my opinion on what I've been told from other courses?

Go ahead, knock yourself out. Not every course is just about learning off a few notes like you think it is.

jive wrote: »

You sound like you find college very difficult. Perhaps you are struggling because you are in the wrong course?

No, I'm fine but thanks for the concern.

jive wrote: »

Also given the retards I know that have gotten degrees from various colleges in various different subjects I can draw my conclusions from that.

I know plenty retards with degrees too, depends on the course and the grade they end up with tho.

bodice ripper

couldntthink wrote: »

Why do so many people with a third level education think they're better/smarter/socially superior than people who don't have one.

Even on boards when people talk about idiotic things that people say, I see things like "s/he said that. And they went to university!!!"

It really pisses me off. Just because you've gone through third level education doesn't make you any more intelligent or upper class.

I was accepted to NUIG and GMIT etc, had a good leaving cert, and even did an engineering course for a while. Wasn't for me, dropped out and did a trade instead. I now enjoy my work, earn good money, and I am very nearly my own boss, all within 2 years of finishing. I have travelled all over the world and never had trouble getting work.

However I still notice a certain attitude from people who have a degree or a cert or whatever. They sometimes talk to you like they're somehow better than you. I have even had instances of people like this trying to tell me how to do my job. Even in the media I have noticed this attitude from time to time.

I consider myself to be broad minded, well read, and quite knowledgable on a lot of things. I know a lot of graduates who are one step short of a certified clown who make me wonder how the hell did they make it through the day, nevermind college.

I know I've got quite a chip on my shoulder, but am I the only one who sees this.

Please don't say anything like "ignore them/live your life etc etc". This pisses me off and saying that kind of **** won't dissipate my anger. I just want to hear if anyone else sees this.

if it makes you feel any better - I have a good leaving cert and a degree, and everyone assumes I can't find my ass with both hands because I have a trade based job. my degree does me no favours.

similarly, people assume I have no experience in that trade if they speak to me first and hear that i am "well spoken" and frankly, female.

hinault

Third level education?

I agree with the OP to the extent that grade inflation and the explosion in the number of third level places have both combined to serve this country badly.
This country has been fooling itself for the past 10-15 years.

Give me a person who has passed professional exams any day.

Poor Craythur

tightropetom wrote: »

College grads generally don't think they're better than non-college grads (or at least most of my mates don't - of course I have more musician friends than doctor friends!). It's mOre of a perception thing.

Hmmm... I don't know if that's true, TBH. Some members of my college social circle would never deign go out with a non-grad.

silverspoon

Well, first off, fair play for engaging in active thought about what you wanted to do, deciding that third level wasn't for you and making a go of it. Secondly, I think it's a definite issue that lots of people see third level as the only legitimate way of going about getting a job/career. A third level degree shouldn't be a pre-requisite for a job (though it seems to be increasingly going in that direction, but the devaluation of third level education is a topic for another day). Thirdly, actually having a degree is no guarantee of employment whatsoever.

The problem here of course is that it was so easy to get into a course (points notwithstanding) that it just became the thing to do. So plenty of people who may not have been necessarily suited to going on to third level did it because everyone else was doing it, coasted along with a few repeats and just about finished. Again touching on the topic of a devalued third level degree. But just because those people exist, and that so many people have degrees in whatever they have it in, doesn't negate someone's hard work which they put into their own qualifications, of which they are justifiably proud.

A degree is seen as being proof of being brainy. It's not. It's proof of a qualification in a particular field in which one has (is supposed to have) a particular knowledge. I have a degree; it doesn't qualify me as knowing the ins and outs of the universe, or mean I have an unwieldly intelligence; it means I have acquired a certain standard of knowledge in a field of my choice and in which employers can have faith in me having. I get what you're saying, that people do have an attitude towards degrees and third level education that it somehow symbolises greater intelligence in that person than someone who doesn't, but it just symbolises a greater depth of knowledge in that field than someone who doesn't have a degree in that field. I'm not going to apologise to you for having a degree and being proud of it, so why not just be proud of yourself for the knowledge you have in your field that I don't.

PS: In fairness, you're right about the perception. My degree is in a particularly knobby field (and everyone guesses) and it is wearisome that people's attitudes do change. I noticed when I worked part-time in a deli, that if it did come up (people for some reason used to ask me what I did), they would treat me completely differently because I wasn't 'just' a cashier, and still look down their noses at the other people working with me because it was their 'real' job.

Havermeyer

ArtSmart wrote: »

WTF? chill nummnuts. I'm genuinely offering advice to a post which is - on it's face value alone - without meaning or purpose. (IMO)

i chose to look deeper.

so sue me.

(please dont sue me, last case nearly crippled me)

Solicitor's letter is in the post.

He/she posted for opinions on something they possibly see as an issue. The best advice we could give would be to guide them to an appropriate forum - I fear AH is not the place for a serious question, providing the question is serious.

tightropetom

As for the 'medicine/engineering/science is harder' ****e - no time for that argument. Most degrees (or even non-college jobs) are difficult - it all depends on your aptitude. I would make a really **** mechanic, or actuary, or air traffic controller, or bus driver. I found something I enjoy, and I have a nice sideline. That makes me content, but not better than anyone else. Although I've worked with plenty of knobends who think they're great. They're not

ArtSmart

Poor Craythur wrote: »

Hmmm... I don't know if that's true, TBH. Some members of my college social circle would never deign go out with a non-grad.

everything is perception. the perception that someone with a similar education level will be more compatible, or that you're been looked down upon etc etc.

all is perception.


except Santa. Santa is real ( i know this)

Mr Keek

I've a mate like you, he was accepted into college, and dropped out after a month, no one cared really, we all just said would he not stick it out until Christmas and have a proper think about it.....He didn't and we gave him no grief about it....He's still one of our best friends.

...any way, since then, he's got this complex about Graduates & Third Level, its so annoying.

People with third level don't think they are "better/smarter/socially superior" You're the one that thinks that, and you are the one knocking yourself down, not them.

OP the fact that you think these people who got Degrees etc are better than you means that they are. Follow your own path, and treat everyone as your equal. You'll be treated the same in return.

ArtSmart

nummnutts wrote: »

Solicitor's letter is in the post.

He/she posted for opinions on something they possibly see as an issue. The best advice we could give would be to guide them to an appropriate forum - I fear AH is not the place for a serious question, providing the question is serious.

for sure. hence my initial point a/ in my first post.

anyhow, no probs

Poor Craythur

ArtSmart wrote: »

everything is perception. the perception that someone with a similar education level will be more compatible, or that you're been looked down upon etc etc.

all is perception.

No seriously, some people I went to college with look down on people with degrees from "lesser" colleges.

I read an interview with Keira Knightley once where she seemed to have a chip on her shoulder that she didn't do A-Levels and go on to uni. :eek: Er, I think you're doing alright for yourself, Keira!

pragmatic1

jive wrote: »

College is easy I don't understand why people think they are intelligent just because they have a degree. There are so many clowns in college and I know people will say "OH BUT ENGINEERING/SCIENCE/MEDICINE/input course are so hard" but they're really not. You study what you're given, you go in and do a few exams at the end of every year. Any half wit could get a degree.

(coming from someone who is doing a degree)

Science and engineering are not that hard. But to get good grades a fair amount of work has to be put in. As for medicine, you're just plain wrong. Just out of interest what year of your degree are you in.

jive

JoseJones wrote: »

Go ahead, knock yourself out. Not every course is just about learning off a few notes like you think it is.

I'm fully aware that not every course is about learning off notes; understanding is much easier than learning off things. If you can't understand your own course then I'd suggest finding another one. There are obviously difficult aspects to every course but if you can't even attain a pass mark then I'd seriously consider doing something else. You honestly sound extremely sour over what I've said which is evident to me that you're probably struggling and annoyed at me for assuming everything is piss easy. Getting a degree is piss easy there's no point in arguing it. Every dope of the day has a degree so it's nothing to be proud about. Getting a good grade is a different matter, but that's not what I said is it?

Scarinae

Poor Craythur wrote: »

No seriously, some people I went to college with look down on people with degrees from "lesser" colleges.

That's ridiculous! If they're going to rule out entire sections of society like that, they're going to end up very lonely

JoseJones

jive wrote: »

I'm fully aware that not every course is about learning off notes; understanding is much easier than learning off things. If you can't understand your own course then I'd suggest finding another one. There are obviously difficult aspects to every course but if you can't even attain a pass mark then I'd seriously consider doing something else. You honestly sound extremely sour over what I've said which is evident to me that you're probably struggling and annoyed at me for assuming everything is piss easy. Getting a degree is piss easy there's no point in arguing it. Every dope of the day has a degree so it's nothing to be proud about. Getting a good grade is a different matter, but that's not what I said is it?

I never said I was even doing a course btw . You shouldn't be so presumptuous.

Havermeyer

ArtSmart wrote: »

for sure. hence my initial point a/ in my first post.

anyhow, no probs

The only point I pulled you up on was you telling the OP he should try college, even though he said he had tried.

Poor Craythur

pragmatic1 wrote: »

Science and engineering are not that hard. But to get good grades a fair amount of work has to be put in. As for medicine, you're just plain wrong. Just out of interest what year of your degree are you in.

Pragmatic, medicine is no harder than science and engineering. That's a HUGE misconception. In fact the science learned in medicine is piss easy, a science degree is much more in-depth. Source: friend who has science degree and is now doing a medicine degree.

Fishie wrote: »

That's ridiculous! If they're going to rule out entire sections of society like that, they're going to end up very lonely

I know. Well, they'll be friends with them but still think our degree is worth more.