[Article]Motorists face new charges as number of toll roads to double

munchkin_utd

despite the snazzy headline, its a proposal for changes rather than concrete government decision already made.

By Paul Melia
Monday April 18 2011
THE number of tolled roads across the country will be doubled under plans that recommend new charges on eight routes.

Motorists pay some €184m a year to use existing tolled roads, but now they face the prospect of paying a raft of new charges.

A major study from the National Roads Authority (NRA) says the Exchequer could take in another €62m a year under its plans.

It suggests doubling the number of tolled roads, with new charges recommended on eight routes across the State.

They are the Dundalk bypass, the N20 at Croom in Co Limerick, the N20 at Mallow in Co Cork, the N18 Ennis bypass, the N9 Carlow bypass and the Jack Lynch Tunnel in Cork. Other roads that could be tolled in future include the N17/18 Tuam bypass and N11 Arklow bypass.

The NRA also says motorists should be charged based on the amount of motorway they use. It says so-called multi-point tolling should be introduced on motorways including the M50, where the road would be divided into sections, and a charge applied to each portion used during a journey.

The Government's Smarter Travel policy wants an extra 500,000 people to use public transport, walk or cycle to work by 2020, to help reduce car commuting. It also calls for the number of car trips per year not to increase beyond current levels up to 2020.

"Capacity of the national road network remains under significant pressure in the fringes of major urban areas, where local trips comprise a significant proportion of the volume of traffic carried," the National Roads Traffic Management Study says. <snip>

Full article : http://www.independent.ie/national-news/motorists-face-new-charges-as-number-of-toll-roads-to-double-2622183.html

Absurdum

I suppose the NRA have nothing better to be doing these days anyway.

wildefalcon

Pay up folks!

Gotta keep the Bankers in their jobs.

Ludo

the N20 at Croom in Co Limerick, the N20 at Mallow in Co Cork, the N18 Ennis bypass, the N9 Carlow bypass and the Jack Lynch Tunnel in Cork.

So potentially 4 tolls when driving from Cork to Shannon which I do every fortnight (if you avoid cork city center madness by using tunnel).

1. Lee Tunnel
2. Mallow
3. Croom
4. Shannon Tunnel

The cork - limerick road is the worst road between cities in the country and they are suggesting 4 tolls??? WTF.

Mitch Connor

So, we paid for the building of the roads with taxes, and now they are going to charge us to use them? Crooks, absolute crooks.

jhegarty

munchkin_utd wrote: »

They are the Dundalk bypass, the N20 at Croom in Co Limerick, the N20 at Mallow in Co Cork, the N18 Ennis bypass, the N9 Carlow bypass and the Jack Lynch Tunnel in Cork. Other roads that could be tolled in future include the N17/18 Tuam bypass and N11 Arklow bypass.

The NRA also says motorists should be charged based on the amount of motorway they use.

Amount of motorway ?

All look like N roads to me.

Flyer1

And I pay €600 a year in road tax for just what ?

Soarer

Can't see how they can toll the tunnel. The place is jammers at rush hour at the best of times...regularly back beyond the Mahon exit.

If they decided to toll it, it'd kill it stone dead.

AugustusMinimus

Soarer wrote: »

Can't see how they can toll the tunnel. The place is jammers at rush hour at the best of times...regularly back beyond the Mahon exit.

If they decided to toll it, it'd kill it stone dead.

Can they toll it considering it was partly financed using EU structural funds ?

There'll be riots in Cork city if they try to toll it. Imagine the city centre traffic ?

vectra

PMSL..
I can just imagine the mayhem at the Jack Lynch tunnel every morning ..Traffic will be backlogged to the Toll bridge on the Fermoy bypass

MidlandsM

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Can they toll it considering it was partly financed using EU structural funds ?

There'll be riots in Cork city if they try to toll it. Imagine the city centre traffic ?

No there won't be riots. The irish don't riot. Recent tolerence in Society of the last gov illustrated that.

Wolverine_1999

Ok, this has got to stop now. For the future of Irish motoring someone has to put their foot down now.

I will be leaving the country - I'm just worrying about who's left.

If this multipoint Motorway charging comes into play - the motorways will be empty.


Just to add, this coming probably from the thinking people in Dublin who see a massive gap out in the west of untolled roads. These roads, they have to remember, being the only form of a reliable mode of transport seeing we have no decent public transport infrastructure. Sure, you have the Dart and the Luas and God know's what up there, and you can see "taking the car" as a priviledge for a majority of people. However, in the rest of the country a car is a necessity, not a luxury.

gbee

Ludo wrote: »

So potentially 4 tolls when driving from Cork to Shannon which I do every fortnight (if you avoid cork city center madness by using tunnel).

The tunnel has already lost its effectiveness, except for off peak times which are getting narrower and narrower.

The tunnel is a longer journey, which should be offset by both quicker travelling times and a more constant speed allowing a saving in diesel or petrol. Unfortunately, delays of hours are commonplace which negates any and all benefits of the tunnel when the vast majority of traffic want to benefit from it.

I routinely dismiss the tunnel opting for the shorter journey and more direct route. City traffic tends to move along better in the busy times with a few well known exceptions.

gbee

Wolverine_1999 wrote: »

If this multipoint Motorway charging comes into play - the motorways will be empty.

They should be empty already, unfortunately there is a significant minority in this country who are not and will never be effected by any recession or depression [which I think we are in actually].

We need to find a way to make these people value their money because they will pay the new tolls with relish and think it worth it to have the roads to themselves.

leeroybrown

gbee wrote: »

They should be empty already, unfortunately there is a significant minority in this country who are not and will never be effected by any recession or depression [which I think we are in actually].

We need to find a way to make these people value their money because they will pay the new tolls with relish and think it worth it to have the roads to themselves.

WTF? For the majority of the country that are fortunately still in employment life continues as normal. Sure people earn less, get taxed more and can afford less luxury but being worse off and likely in negative equity doesn't suddenly mean that you no longer have to travel to Dublin, Cork, Galway, etc. You make it sound like people are driving around in Gold plated Rolls Royces just because they go to visit family, friends, etc. Get some perspective...

Hogzy

They wont be allowed toll any road that received EU funding. Its why the Jack Lynch Tunnel and the Watergrasshill bypass was not tolled in the first place.

TBH that article above is a load of crap. None of that will ever exist.
I love how they blame it on the traffic volumes and not the fact that the government is squeezing everyone again.

Padraig Mor

I believe that the NRA have received advice that they can toll the Jack Lynch tunnel under the guise of paying for its maintenance and a supposed new interchange to replace the roundabout, and that this avoids the "built with EU funding" problem. Collecting the toll would not be a problem - they can just use camera gantries rather than toll booths. As a twice daily tunnel user this would hit me big time - maybe I should reconsider paying my €1300 "road" tax (yes, I know!)?

As for tolling the N20 at Mallow - whatever about tolling motorways, tunnels etc, tolling a ****ing boreen?!

Hogzy

Padraig Mor wrote: »

I believe that the NRA have received advice that they can toll the Jack Lynch tunnel under the guise of paying for its maintenance and a supposed new interchange to replace the roundabout, and that this avoids the "built with EU funding" problem.

Given the amount of public anger this will create I am positive they would be taken to the ECJ for not complying with the terms of the funding. If they collect a toll for the purpose of rebuilding Dunkettle then the Commission will ensure the collected money is used for that purpose.
Otherwise its a breach of EU law simple as.

Guy:Incognito

Flyer1 wrote: »

And I pay €600 a year in road tax for just what ?

This is why I laugh when people throw the "pendantic" arguement around when someone points out its called "motor tax" not "road tax".

https://www.motortax.ie/OMT/welcome.do;jsessionid=0aa0114730d789844872d682458a9f25b392e59fefbd.e38PaNaSbh0RaO0TaO0

Nowhere does it say its "road tax" or that it's ringfenced for roads. It goes to the general coffers to be spent on all the things local governments have to pay for, not just (but including) roads.



Anyway, isnt this basically the same story put out last year and much moaned about by people on here who, despite not reading it , told us we'd be paying tolls on every strech of the M50 and plenty of other roads aroudn the country within months? In fact it seems all they did was change the year in it from 2010 to 2011.

Ardennes1944

this is a minor point but something that came into my head. for the likes of mahon cinema. usually i would go there instead of douglas cinema which is closer as it has a better selection and is nicer all round. but if it means i have to pay a toll to go there then im gonna pick douglas everytime.thats just one example of a store missing out

Lord Nikon

Flyer1 wrote: »

And I pay €600 a year in road tax for just what ?

You pay €600 a year for MotorTax, which allows you to drive you car legally on Irish roads.

Ludo

Deutschlandfürimmer7 wrote: »

this is a minor point but something that came into my head. for the likes of mahon cinema. usually i would go there instead of douglas cinema which is closer as it has a better selection and is nicer all round. but if it means i have to pay a toll to go there then im gonna pick douglas everytime.thats just one example of a store missing out

They are both on same side of the tunnel...what difference would a toll on the tunnel make to this?

Lord Nikon

Deutschlandfürimmer7 wrote: »

this is a minor point but something that came into my head. for the likes of mahon cinema. usually i would go there instead of douglas cinema which is closer as it has a better selection and is nicer all round. but if it means i have to pay a toll to go there then im gonna pick douglas everytime.thats just one example of a store missing out

Yeah, I can see your dilemma. Oh poor you have to go to a different cinema.

leeroybrown

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Nowhere does it say its "road tax" or that it's ringfenced for roads. It goes to the general coffers to be spent on all the things local governments have to pay for, not just (but including) roads.

"Motor Tax" is actually paid directly into the Local Government Fund and is ring fenced for use by the local authorities on local expenditure. One of its direct purposes is spending on local and regional roads that are under the control of the local authorities.

Guy:Incognito

leeroybrown wrote: »

"Motor Tax" is actually paid directly into the Local Government Fund and is ring fenced for use by the local authorities on local expenditure. One of its direct purposes is spending on local and regional roads that are under the control of the local authorities.

I might be missing it but is that not pretty much exactly what I said?

leeroybrown

Flyer1 wrote: »

And I pay €600 a year in road tax for just what ?

You pay €600/year for two things:

1) To allow you to drive legally. They can tax pretty much anything after all if suitable penalties are in place.

2) Your €600 goes straight into the Local Government Fund and effectively becomes available for expenditure (on local issues including roads) in your local authority area. This fund is topped up from the general taxation pool every year so don't be surprised if you see an increase in tax.

leeroybrown

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

I might be missing it but is that not pretty much exactly what I said?

Sorry Guy:Incognito - I mis-read your post. Need coffee...

Hogzy

neuromancer wrote: »

Yeah, I can see your dilemma. Oh poor you have to go to a different cinema.

Thats not the point he is making. Mahon point get a hell of a lot of business from the 'North Side' of Cork that come via the tunnel. Most of that business will be lost if the punters have to pay a toll going and coming back. It could nearly double the price of a cinema trip. Therefore they will loose business and jobs will most certainly be lost. Especially in the Cinema.

How could you not understand that from the outset?:rolleyes:

AugustusMinimus

Conor Faughnan on Newstalk right now rubbishing the whole plan.

Raising 62m on this is just nutty. What a waste of time. 1c on a litre of petrol would probably raise that much.

highlydebased

A toll at Croom? You've got to be kidding me. That road is a joke!

superflyninja

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Conor Faughnan on Newstalk right now rubbishing the whole plan.

Raising 62m on this is just nutty. What a waste of time. 1c on a litre of petrol would probably raise that much.

JEzus dont give them that idea. Its already gone up 2c over the wkend.any higher and my car wont be getting out very much

Berty

ALL easily avoidable Tolls.

Pillows for those dreams folks.

Padraig Mor

Hogzy wrote: »

Given the amount of public anger this will create I am positive they would be taken to the ECJ for not complying with the terms of the funding. If they collect a toll for the purpose of rebuilding Dunkettle then the Commission will ensure the collected money is used for that purpose.
Otherwise its a breach of EU law simple as.

Yes, and I'm sure it would take years to go through the ECJ! As for building a new junction, I'm not sure the EC would have any jurisdiction/interest in this. [not disagreeing with you BTW! I think a toll would be ridiculous]. Note that some months ago there were cameras set up over the entrance to the tunnel, one for each lane. Perhaps they were testing out the camera toll tech already?!

Personally, being in Cobh, I'd take the ferry. And, yes, Mahon cinema would lose my business too! (off to Midleton with me!).

AugustusMinimus

Berty wrote: »

ALL easily avoidable Tolls.

Pillows for those dreams folks.

The Jack Lynch Tunnel is easily avoidable ?

Cork City centre on a Friday evening is going to be fun.

AugustusMinimus

Padraig Mor wrote: »

Yes, and I'm sure it would take years to go through the ECJ! As for building a new junction, I'm not sure the EC would have any jurisdiction/interest in this. [not disagreeing with you BTW! I think a toll would be ridiculous]. Note that some months ago there were cameras set up over the entrance to the tunnel, one for each lane. Perhaps they were testing out the camera toll tech already?!

Personally, being in Cobh, I'd take the ferry. And, yes, Mahon cinema would lose my business too! (off to Midleton with me!).

The owners of Mahon Point, the new Hospital in Mahon point and just about every business in Cork will have a fit.

Berty

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

The Jack Lynch Tunnel is easily avoidable ?

Cork City centre on a Friday evening is going to be fun.

It's not impossible to avoid it though. The Jack Lynch is probably the exception to that list though, you're right.

Ennis bypass has so many exits and parallel roads its easy. Croom is a joke. Feckin roads everywhere. Tuam will only force people onto the Ballinrobe / Athenry - Dunmore roads.

I don't pay my Tolls. My company does, however, I do not drive like that. I don't say "feck it, somebody else is paying". I work on "principles" and if they put Tolls on roads that were paid for during the strategic infrastructure plans then how can we ever trust the government again?

You paid once through taxes, twice during the bank bailouts and you're going to have to pay again because we need more money(to pay the banks). :mad:

The Government's Smarter Travel policy wants an extra 500,000 people to use public transport, walk or cycle to work by 2020, to help reduce car commuting.

What public transport?

superflyninja

LIGHTNING wrote: »

I havent driven my car in over 2 weeks, I have to use it this weekend and that will be the only time I will use it this month.

I have to use it to get to work.(before anybody goes off about public transport i used public transport for 2 years and couldnt take it anymore.effectively putting in 13 hour days before i even take my coat off).Already paying 4 euro a day for motorway......i dont see why the government want to force more people to stop driving.its just not practical(even living in the city) to take public transport.If i have to go back to buses(3 each way) then its my child that suffers most by not seeing her parents.

gbee

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

The Jack Lynch Tunnel is easily avoidable ?

Cork City centre on a Friday evening is going to be fun.

You gotta weigh up the costs, two hours on the motorway and the two mile queue through Mahon Point access to it and we can come to some understanding that driving through the city is actually better already.

A point though that half the city is designed to flood traffic to Mahon Point to flush it on the MW, so some fun would be expected but no more than the four hours that can already be experienced, IMO.

Berty

bluewolf wrote: »

What public transport?

I have two bus's from my town to Limerick City. 8:10am and 14:15pm. That's it. Far too many bus's to be fair. :rolleyes:

n97 mini

Berty wrote: »

I have two bus's from my town to Limerick City. 8:10am and 14:15pm. That's it. Far too many bus's to be fair. :rolleyes:

Which is part of the problem: low denisity rural dwellings. Proper spatial strategy and the enforcement of it would go a long way. 40% of the population is now living in one-offs in the country. Can't provide public transport to a lot of them.. just not worth it.

Re tolls. Bottom line is the country is broke. We need money from anywhere we can get it. The social welfare and public sector pay bills alone are significantly larger than our total tax take.

Hogzy

gbee wrote: »

You gotta weigh up the costs, two hours on the motorway and the two mile queue through Mahon Point access to it and we can come to some understanding that driving through the city is actually better already.

A point though that half the city is designed to flood traffic to Mahon Point to flush it on the MW, so some fun would be expected but no more than the four hours that can already be experienced, IMO.

Can you reword that. I cant make any sense of your post!

vectra

Deutschlandfürimmer7 wrote: »

this is a minor point but something that came into my head. for the likes of mahon cinema. usually i would go there instead of douglas cinema which is closer as it has a better selection and is nicer all round. but if it means i have to pay a toll to go there then im gonna pick douglas everytime.thats just one example of a store missing out

Hogzy wrote: »

Thats not the point he is making. Mahon point get a hell of a lot of business from the 'North Side' of Cork that come via the tunnel. Most of that business will be lost if the punters have to pay a toll going and coming back. It could nearly double the price of a cinema trip. Therefore they will loose business and jobs will most certainly be lost. Especially in the Cinema.

How could you not understand that from the outset?:rolleyes:

I dont understand these posts
IF you have to use the tunnel to get to Mahon Cinema.
How do you get to Douglas Cinema??
You have to pass Mahon to get to Douglas

Ludo

n97 mini wrote: »

40% of the population is now living in one-offs in the country.

Really? That seems an awfully high figure.

AugustusMinimus

Hogzy wrote: »

Can you reword that. I cant make any sense of your post!

Either can I.

AugustusMinimus

vectra wrote: »

I dont understand these posts
IF you have to use the tunnel to get to Mahon Cinema.
How do you get to Douglas Cinema??
You have to pass Mahon to get to Douglas

There's talks of tolling the SRR as well.

vectra

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

There's talks of tolling the SRR as well.

Wont that make it more difficult to get to Douglas then?

alpahaeagle

n97 mini wrote: »

Re tolls. Bottom line is the country is broke. We need money from anywhere we can get it. The social welfare and public sector pay bills alone are significantly larger than our total tax take.

The Issue with that is we are paying TAX, PRSI, CAR TAX, Tax on petrol. Why should we be hit with another charge when we have no Public Transport.
I live in Laois and work in Sandyford. I would have to walk/cycle the 3 miles to the train station. catch train. catch luas to abbey street, walk/bus to Stephen's green and luas to Sandyford. This would take me @ 2 to 3 hours each way. When I can drive and be there in @ 1 hour.
I know the country is broke, I have been let go twice from companies closing down. So we do we the struggling people have to pay extra tolls when the fat cats get them paid for by the company.
You saw the report taht most people have @ €70 euros left per month to spend....what on now tolls ????
One more question have you tried leaving on the social welfare, Not nice.:mad:

Hogzy

vectra wrote: »

I dont understand these posts
IF you have to use the tunnel to get to Mahon Cinema.
How do you get to Douglas Cinema??
You have to pass Mahon to get to Douglas

There are other Cinemas apart from Douglas. There is Middleton, Blackpool and the Gate. I dont know why the other poster suggested Douglas as an alternative to North Siders if the tunnel is tolled. But i am referring to the above as the alternatives to mahon.

TBH i think this whole thread is pointless. The SRR and Tunnel will not be tolled i can guarantee it. Because people will try and avoid the tolls therefore absolute mayhem will be created on other roads which in turn will probably cost the government more.

leeroybrown

n97 mini wrote: »

Which is part of the problem: low denisity rural dwellings. Proper spatial strategy and the enforcement of it would go a long way. 40% of the population is now living in one-offs in the country. Can't provide public transport to a lot of them.. just not worth it.

Forget one off dwellings, even if you are living bang in the middle of a town that should be well serviced due to the national spatial strategy and national primary routes you'll have a bus service that has nether the frequency nor operating hours to make it a reasonable alternative.

AugustusMinimus

vectra wrote: »

Wont that make it more difficult to get to Douglas then?

Oh. I thought the person was from Douglas.