Digital Switchover - UTV Region (DigitalUK)

Skull Murphy

whitebriar wrote: »

That bbc paper deals with analogue reception issues,digital reception is completely different,in terms of how intolerent it is of any invasion of confusing data on the same feed.

In terms of how the viewer perceives it, digital is far more tolerant of CCI. It only takes a tiny unwanted signal to produce noticeable effects on analogue, since the signal is basically driving the display directly. It's why they put so much time & effort into examining the effectiveness of offsets to minimise the visibility of patterning caused by rogue signals that couldn't be filtered out, interacting with the wanted signal.

Given the amount of processing the digital signal undergoes before the viewer actually "sees" it, I'd question the validity of any comparisons with analogue from the POV of viewer experience. It's certainly more annoying when it fails, but it will already have resisted a lot of disruption up to that point.

whitebriar

Skull Murphy wrote: »

In terms of how the viewer perceives it, digital is far more tolerant of CCI. It only takes a tiny unwanted signal to produce noticeable effects on analogue, since the signal is basically driving the display directly. It's why they put so much time & effort into examining the effectiveness of offsets to minimise the visibility of patterning caused by rogue signals that couldn't be filtered out, interacting with the wanted signal.

Given the amount of processing the digital signal undergoes before the viewer actually "sees" it, I'd question the validity of any comparisons with analogue from the POV of viewer experience. It's certainly more annoying when it fails, but it will already have resisted a lot of disruption up to that point.

Oh there's no question on digital being superior when you have it,obviously,it's picture perfect.If there was no Divis,I'd be wagering with aerials pointed to it, sturdy Leinster saorview around Drogheda/Navan and other areas that have lost Divis 23 would be possible.
Analogue wouldn't have been a great runner by contrast.
It only takes a tiny amount of co channel though to bring on that digital cliff.Hence the problems,there's enough of each to stop both.

Now my point is,there is actually a lot of overlap in service areas to have merited accomodating full new Divis reception in the South in areas where people used analogue Divis already.
It would have been nice to have a quango for a change that was thinking outside of the box,proactively working with possibilities rather than ignoring them.

lawhec

FFS there's a fair bit of crying over spilt milk here. Somewhere in the region of 200,000 people in Northern Ireland cannot receive the SDN & both Arqiva multiplexes because they are either served from relays, are on the fringes of a transmitter service area where the three PSB muxs can be received (remember that the three commercial multiplexes use a slightly less robust transmission mode that the two DVB-T PSB muxs, requiring a roughly 2-3db better incoming signal before taking into account lower transmission powers), or have issues of co-channel interference - some parts of Tyrone and Fermanagh have clashes between Divis & Brougher Mountain, while in East Down there are issues between Divis & Caldbeck. In the UK the PSB muxs were allocated the "cleanest" frequencies with lower potential co-channel interference problems (in most cases they were ex-analogue frequencies) while SDN and Arqiva declined to take up an offer to extend their coverage to an additional 120 sites. Their call.

I've already seen two reports as to see political disappointment that the commercial multiplex operators did not extend coverage, one in Strabane where in their district council area Arqiva & SDN muxs reception from either Limavady or Brougher would be very limited, and another by the Guernsey government who have reported that they have no power to compel either operator to extend their coverage to the Channel Isles.

Mount Leinster's high elevation is a potential bug bearer in causing co-channel interference to distant locations, but that was taken into account for international frequency planning at RRC-06 even if some of the allocations looked strange. The likes of Comreg, Ofcom and the ITU don't pluck frequencies out of their backsides for no good reason, they tend to practice good frequency planning as opposed to say the Italian authorities. The UHF TV broadcast band has now been squeezed with the loss of its top end frequencies and the corresponding better co-channel interference characteristics of DVB-T(2) compared to 625 line PAL means that the days of fringe reception of TV services being available without interference are now reduced when more frequencies in a given band are in use locally, and frequencies can now be reused geographically closer together. That's the scenario. In a similar fashion, some viewers in counties Derry and Antrim have been having trouble receiving Saorview because of co-channel issues since October whereas previously RTÉ via analogue was available.

Using a different frequency for Mt. Leinster broadcasts would only be a short term solution. Of the eight UHF frequencies allocated to Mt. Leinster at RRC-06, only E34 promises - for now - to be a clear frequency without potentially affecting reception of either Saorview or UK Freeview services in the state, largely because the UK has left E31 to E38 empty for now and still can't make up their mind what to do with it. The move of Arq. B at Preseli from E49 to E39 leaves E49 clear for now (it will be allocated to Carmel in March). Using both E34 and E49 for a two-mux Saorview service would be an unusual allocation also affecting viewers with diplexed aerial set-ups for Mt.L & Preseli. If a third multiplex came about in the future (not impossible), then avoiding co-channel interference will be impossible.

Replacing the current UHF transmission aerials at Mt. Leinster is a non-runner. The cost of the work required, the disruption to services involved, the inconvenience to people in parts of Kildare and the south midlands whom current have aerials trained at Mt. Leinster potentially losing their service and needing either an aerial adjustment or replacement, all that some people in north Leinster can get some TV channels terrestrially from the UK, the majority of which are available via satellite free-to-air, in an era where RTÉNL have taken on significant debts to roll out Saorview and where the state is broke, well all I can say is that there are more pressing priorities.

You may as well ask as to why Ofcom allocated the frequencies at Divis for those commercial multiplexes to be broadcast?

watty

UK are going to have another move and retune as the abandon idea of an "empty" block of E31 to E38 in the middle. So there will be NO channel that Mt. Leinster can "move" to. Even without Pay DTT it's likely in the longer term we have 4 x multiplexes for Saorview (partly due to all channels being HD, say 8 channels minimum with addition of Oireachtas in HD, would be needing 3 Multiplexes at least) .

Most people need a dish for free UK TV.

whitebriar

Oireachtas channel in HD...lol that's stretching it a bit to labour a point watty,are you sure its not you that's been on the Xmas spirits

At the height of the Celtic tiger,we couldn't get reasonable demand for extra commercial channels on dtt here.

There's a good saying and it goes like this;
If it can't happen it won't.

You're all right though.
At this stage,its too messy to do what I think should have been planned for in the first place and that is plan saorview coverage to cohabit with freeview where available.

In the southeast unlike the northeast,100's of homes had freeview before Rte started their earliest digital tests, and 1000's by the time saorview started tests.So an entitlement view had a lot more time to bed down.

The comment made earlier that 23 should have been switched on day one,I agree with.
The eagerness to test MUX 2 again could have been done without too I might change my car in 2016,I'm not going test driving untill summer 15.
I'm sure MUX 1 can carry 3 HD channels ,3e SD,news now and some radio anyway and we have enough.
We're not a big enough economy for more.

Sure it would be nice to have more but let's be Fcekin realistic

FREETV

watty wrote: »

UK are going to have another move and retune as the abandon idea of an "empty" block of E31 to E38 in the middle. So there will be NO channel that Mt. Leinster can "move" to. Even without Pay DTT it's likely in the longer term we have 4 x multiplexes for Saorview (partly due to all channels being HD, say 8 channels minimum with addition of Oireachtas in HD, would be needing 3 Multiplexes at least) .

Most people need a dish for free UK TV.

I get what you are saying Watty but I can see Mt. Leinster causing interference over the border during late Spring and Summer because of high pressure and the height and power rating which is significantly more powerful than that of Divis from the transmitter.

thetwangman

Mt Leinster is already wiping out UK reception north of the border. I don't get Ch 23 from Divis or CH 26 during MT Leinster Mux 2 tests.

FREETV

thetwangman wrote: »

Mt Leinster is already wiping out UK reception north of the border. I don't get Ch 23 from Divis or CH 26 during MT Leinster Mux 2 tests.

I see, well then RTENL had better do something pronto before Mux 2 starts so that both services can co-exist at the same time, doesn't that make sense everybody for seamless interference free reception on both platforms? Common sense should prevail.

whitebriar

thetwangman wrote: »

Mt Leinster is already wiping out UK reception north of the border. I don't get Ch 23 from Divis or CH 26 during MT Leinster Mux 2 tests.

well that confirms leinster as responsible.
But are you supposed to be covered by Divis or a nearby relay?
If the latter,you'll be told your area is freeview light only.
If the former,you and your neighbours need to make a fuss.
Rtenl got the welsh transmitter Blaenplwf near Aberystwyth nulled to the west to protect Arklow saorview
Its not a quid pro quo but then again it is cross border confirmed interference.

FREETV

thetwangman wrote: »

Mt Leinster is already wiping out UK reception north of the border. I don't get Ch 23 from Divis or CH 26 during MT Leinster Mux 2 tests.

Maybe you should contact RTENL and make them fully aware of this fact and the problems Mt Leinster is already causing from Dundalk to Meath on CH. 23 so that there will be a resolution.

Peter Rhea

thetwangman wrote: »

Mt Leinster is already wiping out UK reception north of the border. I don't get Ch 23 from Divis or CH 26 during MT Leinster Mux 2 tests.

Aren't you in south Armagh, in an area that's probably lucky to get any Divis reception, maybe even with Camlough as the recommended Freeview transmitter? Even if Divis is your preferred transmitter, that in no way guarantees full service. Plenty of south Armagh postcodes, when entered in the DUK checker, will point you to a satellite provider, with no mention of terrestrial coverage at all, so you could be lucky to even be getting the PSBs.

Interference from other transmission sites is factored into the prediction data & is not some kind of special case anomaly that suddenly crops up unforeseen & deserves special attention. It has all been planned for already. (Apologies if I'm just repeating what others have already posted.)

The 'missing' services here are provided by purely commercial operators who have no obligation to provide & hence expect full geographical coverage even within their own territory. I know that isn't seeing it from the POV of those raising complaints here, but it would indicate how far they'd get if they attempt to take complaints any further.

FREETV

Peter Rhea wrote: »

Aren't you in south Armagh, in an area that's probably lucky to get any Divis reception, maybe even with Camlough as the recommended Freeview transmitter?

The 'missing' services here are provided by purely commercial operators who have no obligation to provide & hence expect full geographical coverage even within their own territory. I know that isn't seeing it from the POV of those raising complaints here, but it would indicate how far they'd get if they attempt to take complaints any further.

A power increase to 100,000 watts might help? I can't see the operators doing that though.

lawhec

whitebriar wrote: »

In the southeast unlike the northeast,100's of homes had freeview before Rte started their earliest digital tests, and 1000's by the time saorview started tests.So an entitlement view had a lot more time to bed down.

The prior Mount Leinster - Preseli co-channel problem and the current Mount Leinster - Divis co-channel problem are not a direct copy of each other. In the former case, Preseli was causing interference to part of the Mt. Leinster service area, and correspondingly Mt. Leinster was causing interference to the Preseli service area of the Arqiva A multiplex. As already pointed out the UK commercial multiplexes are on frequencies that are both more vulnerable to interference and in most cases on lower power compared to the PSB multiplexes so it was taken as given. However it was far more unacceptable for Saorview transmissions for Mt. Leinster therefore a shift in frequency to a previously used analogue frequency was desirable especially to those for whom interference for Preseli blocked reception of Saorview on E45 with no alternative signal available. It happened to be a nice side-affect for many people along the SE coast that it now gave clear reception of all Preseli services. In the latter case, there are no reports of the SDN multiplex from Divis causing interference to Saorview viewers in the Mt. Leinster service area, while Mt. Leinster interference to SDN reception in Divis' service area appears to be limited to patches along the border in Counties Armagh & Down - and it is not the only part of that service area that is interference limited as I explained previously. It may also become further interference limited in the future if Holywell Hill at some point uses E23, E26 or E29 for future use as that site has these ex-analogue allocations for DTT.

The point that is often made to viewers in the UK in areas post-DSO as to why they cannot receive the commercial multiplexes because their relay station doesn't broadcast them is that they still have more services now than what they had with analogue including the full suite of BBC channels, Channel 5 for the first time for most, and four full HD 1080i/p channels with the appropriate Freeview HD receiver. The lack of some of the offshoots from ITV, Channel 4 and Channel 5 inc. ITV3, ITV4, Film 4, 5* and 5USA will disappoint some people, but should they want them without shelling out for a pay-tv service, Freesat is an option and in some places, a new aerial installation at one of the 80 sites the SDN & Arqiva muxs are carried. The lack of Dave, Really, Yesterday, Quest, 4Music and Viva on Freesat is a matter for those who run those channels. In respect, the same applies to those in the Irish Republic who previously received the four or five UK analogue TV channels with half-decent quality should receive the three UK PSB muxes without much bother. Reception of anything else is a bonus. If you want more, get satellite.

whitebriar wrote: »

I'm sure MUX 1 can carry 3 HD channels ,3e SD,news now and some radio anyway and we have enough.

With the slightly more than 24Mbit capacity in a multiplex for Saorview, one of the four "main" channels would still be SD and is still not listed in the above sentence, neither is the stream that carries RTÉ Jr & RTÉ1+1. RTÉ2 HD is already pushing bitrate efficiency limits at present, and is only 1440x1080, while SD streams are 544x576 suffering from a lack of sharpness. Not forgetting audio description streams, MHEG for Aertel & WST capacity for TV3, 3e & TG4 along with NIT tables and EPG data. A second multiplex would give more breathing space for current and future HD streams potentially allowing them to be transmitted with a 1:1 pixel ratio (1920x1080) with SD streams giving full D1 (704/720x576) pictures. The current quality of TV channels broadcast on Saorview currently is satisfactory, but there is definitely room for improvement.

whitebriar

By the way,I don't believe for one second that leinster interference in wales had no bearing on the move off 45 which incidentally carries sky news there.

Dab is the place for the single digit listernership extra Rte radio stations for now and frankly ros na RUIN in HD is probably about as economically wanted as s4c clirlun.

Time to cut the cloth to suit the measure before our licence fees are increased to even more ridiculous levels.

As I said..if things can't go on..they won't.

lawhec

FREETV wrote: »

I get what you are saying Watty but I can see Mt. Leinster causing interference over the border during late Spring and Summer because of high pressure and the height and power rating which is significantly more powerful than that of Divis from the transmitter.

Prior to DSO in the north, both Divis and Brougher Mountain carried DTT services on E23 & E26. To the best of my knowledge, I can recall no large amount of complaints of Mt. Leinster causing interference to Freeview viewers in that time. Indeed in my neck of the woods, co-channel interference from Holywell Hill was a much bigger concern yet even in periods of tropospheric enhancement, rarely caused problems. "Flat" condition co-channel interference was more of a concern.

It also ignores that all frequencies used for broadcasting in UHF can be vulnerable to co-channel interference, hence different protection levels for the PSB and commercial multiplexes. This didn't stop the commercial mux operators changing the FEC rate requiring a better C/N ratio than the two PSB DVB-T multiplexes for the sake of a bit more capacity if they thought co-channel interference would be a major problem.

Dealing with potential co-channel interference in the Divis service area from Mt. Leinster, previous analogue transmissions on E23 & E26 was peak ERP 500KW. Using the -7db calculation in predicting equivalent DTT coverage to match that of the previous analogue service, this puts the current Saorview mux at an equivalent increase of 2db - a small increase, and not significant in the majority of cases. People whom had DTT from Divis prior to DSO where Muxs A&B were unaffected by tropospheric enhancement are unlikely to have it spoiled by Mount Leinster in all but the most intense circumstance. Caldbeck however is more likely to be a problem for interference to many in parts of Belfast and along the Down coast especially as most of the path is sea, whereas Mt. Leinster's path is over land and significant hills and mountains in Armagh, Down and Tyrone should provide reasonable shielding. During such conditions, Darvel may also pose problems in some places.

However such arrangements for the SDN & Arqiva multiplexes are not out of the ordinary. In southern England, Crystal Palace, Rowridge and Stockland Hill all use the same three frequencies for the commercial multiplexes.

thetwangman

Peter Rhea wrote: »

Aren't you in south Armagh, in an area that's probably lucky to get any Divis reception.

Yes Peter, I'm in south Armagh and was not not predicted to get reception from Divis. I do rely on satellite for UK Channels. I am just stating for information purposes that I do get (lucky) reception from Divis, but Mt Leinster does indeed appear to be wiping out UK channels north of the border on Ch 23 (& 26 during tests).

Ronnie Raygun

whitebriar wrote: »

... which incidentally carries sky news there

You just can't keep away from the conspiracy thing ...

lawhec

whitebriar wrote: »

Dab is the place for the single digit listernership extra Rte radio stations for now

The removal of the additional RTÉ DTT would be a piss in a pond with regards to the extra bitrate released if those services stopped transmitting on Saorview. Also the Saorview network provides a far better reach to people across the country looking to access these stations compared to the limited coverage DAB currently has and looks to be for the near future

whitebriar wrote: »

and frankly ros na RUIN in HD is probably about as economically wanted as s4c clirlun.

Not comparable. S4C's Clirlun service was shut down due to a combination of funding cuts due to it being more reliant now on a cut from the UK licence fee than direct government funding, the lack of Freeview HD receiver penetration as a whole in Wales (and Britain as a whole) and the requirement of running a parallel SD service on Freeview. Tiny viewing figures couldn't justify continuing a HD service either without additional subsidy or affecting programming budgets so it wasn't too hard to decide, along with the fact that a HD service is likely to return to Freeview in the medium-long future. OTOH TG4 is not under similar pressure to its funding, already has a HD channel available on UPC (albeit almost all upscaled), and unlike S4C Clirlun, the introduction of a TG4 HD channel to Saorview would be available to all Saorview viewers and replace TG4's current SD transmission. And TG4 is frankly a lot more than just one soap opera, plenty of sports and (English subtitled) documentaries are produced and shown by them that would benefit a lot from HD, with the organisation well noted for its creativity and efficiency on a budget dwarfed by RTÉ. As a non-Irish speaker, I'd welcome TG4 HD before TV3 HD.

whitebriar wrote: »

Time to cut the cloth to suit the measure before our licence fees are increased to even more ridiculous levels.

As I said..if things can't go on..they won't.

The issue of the (RoI) licence fee is a strawman - what recent leaks or proposals have been made to significantly increase the price of the Irish TV licence fee? In respect to the RTÉ Digital radio services, a report I read two years ago stated that the stations together cost €250,000 per annum to run which as a slice of the RTÉ funding pie especially compared to the salaries of some of RTÉ's personalities, is tiny and with 2XM and Pulse, is providing a (legal) training ground for volunteer DJ's looking to gain on-air experience especially with most of the unlicenced stations on FM now closed. TG4 itself to the best of my knowledge doesn't get any direct funding from the licence fee, only indirectly through the Sound & Vision fund and through RTÉ's News & Current affairs contributions to the channel. It is otherwise funded by direct government grant & commercial activities, but I stand corrected if what I've wrote is wrong.

None of the above is relevant to the area of international frequency planning anyway.

whitebriar

Ronnie Raygun wrote: »

You just can't keep away from the conspiracy thing ...

Ah now,go away out of that

I wasn't suggesting RTE were wanting to jam sky news,what do you take me for ?

I was suggesting,Sky wouldn't be too impressed if some of it's viewers were not receiving them in Wales due to something solvable like a clash of tx's where other non clashing channels were available on this side.

Anyhow,we repeat ourselves,all already said in this thread.

lawhec

whitebriar wrote: »

Ah now,go away out of that

I wasn't suggesting RTE were wanting to jam sky news,what do you take me for ?

I was suggesting,Sky wouldn't be too impressed if some of it's viewers were not receiving them in Wales due to something solvable like a clash of tx's where other non clashing channels were available on this side.

Anyhow,we repeat ourselves,all already said in this thread.

Sky News would only be bothered about it if someone buying ad time on the channel was concerned for some reason at losing out on a few thousand (at most) viewers along the south-west coast in Wales with digital terrestrial only that was of keen interest as a target demographic for them compared to the other 55 million or so other viewers in the rest of the UK that can receive Sky News on Freeview.

whitebriar

lawhec wrote: »

The removal of the additional RTÉ DTT would be a piss in a pond with regards to the extra bitrate released if those services stopped transmitting on Saorview. Also the Saorview network provides a far better reach to people across the country looking to access these stations compared to the limited coverage DAB currently has and looks to be for the near future

Ireland is not Hong Kong,you're arguing for services to be provided,irrespective of where the money is coming from,thats not on intodays climate.
If it can't go on it won't.

Not comparable. S4C's Clirlun service was shut down due to a combination of funding cuts due to it being more reliant now on a cut from the UK licence fee than direct government funding, the lack of Freeview HD receiver penetration as a whole in Wales (and Britain as a whole) and the requirement of running a parallel SD service on Freeview. Tiny viewing figures couldn't justify continuing a HD service either without additional subsidy or affecting programming budgets so it wasn't too hard to decide, along with the fact that a HD service is likely to return to Freeview in the medium-long future. OTOH TG4 is not under similar pressure to its funding, already has a HD channel available on UPC (albeit almost all upscaled), and unlike S4C Clirlun, the introduction of a TG4 HD channel to Saorview would be available to all Saorview viewers and replace TG4's current SD transmission. And TG4 is frankly a lot more than just one soap opera, plenty of sports and (English subtitled) documentaries are produced and shown by them that would benefit a lot from HD, with the organisation well noted for its creativity and efficiency on a budget dwarfed by RTÉ. As a non-Irish speaker, I'd welcome TG4 HD before TV3 HD.

Well I'm all for it,if it pays more than tv3 to have it there,but it won't,how could it?
8 times as much public funding goes into it as advertising.
Money better off providing home help services for the elderly,if you ask people outside the bubble of this forum or if they knew about it.
But hey thats, a discussion for another day.
I respect your desire to have it,but it doesn't pay,ergo it's a luxury in todays economic climate and certainly not justified as a reason to fire up a 2nd costly mux.Let that happen when it's self financing which won't be anytime soon,because if it can't go on,it won't.

The issue of the (RoI) licence fee is a strawman - what recent leaks or proposals have been made to significantly increase the price of the Irish TV licence fee? In respect to the RTÉ Digital radio services, a report I read two years ago stated that the stations together cost €250,000 per annum to run which as a slice of the RTÉ funding pie especially compared to the salaries of some of RTÉ's personalities, is tiny and with 2XM and Pulse, is providing a (legal) training ground for volunteer DJ's looking to gain on-air experience especially with most of the unlicenced stations on FM now closed. TG4 itself to the best of my knowledge doesn't get any direct funding from the licence fee, only indirectly through the Sound & Vision fund and through RTÉ's News & Current affairs contributions to the channel. It is otherwise funded by direct government grant & commercial activities, but I stand corrected if what I've wrote is wrong.

None of the above is relevant to the area of international frequency planning anyway.

I agree it's for another thread,except,I wouldn't advocate wasting extra spectrum space on a not for profit hd service when old people are being neglected,ergo that point is relevant to whether we want or need a 2nd mux with even more juggling to be done on tx clashes.
Only one eigth of TG4's funding comes from advertising,the rest is a hand out.It has the viewership of a fringe satelite station,occasionally artificially boosted by sports events that could easily be allocated to RTE2hd.
so s4c clirluin is very relevant.

It's not a channel in my opinion that should be using up space that could go to existing more watched channels in Hd.

whitebriar

lawhec wrote: »

Sky News would only be bothered about it if someone buying ad time on the channel was concerned for some reason at losing out on a few thousand (at most) viewers along the south-west coast in Wales with digital terrestrial only that was of keen interest as a target demographic for them compared to the other 55 million or so other viewers in the rest of the UK that can receive Sky News on Freeview.

A contra position,to which you're entitled,which I don't subscribe to for a second.

Ronnie Raygun

whitebriar wrote: »

I wasn't suggesting RTE were wanting to jam sky news,what do you take me for ?

I was suggesting,Sky wouldn't be too impressed if some of it's viewers were not receiving them in Wales

I know what you meant. Just thought you might have been implying that RTE would be more likely to yield in these matters, if Sky were involved.

Peter Rhea

thetwangman wrote: »

Yes Peter, I'm in south Armagh and was not not predicted to get reception from Divis. I do rely on satellite for UK Channels. I am just stating for information purposes that I do get (lucky) reception from Divis, but Mt Leinster does indeed appear to be wiping out UK channels north of the border on Ch 23 (& 26 during tests).

This issue was 1st raised by a poster in Dundalk, barely 5 miles from the border. Radio waves are no respecters of political boundaries.

The commercial multiplex operators will be well aware of the limitations attached to working on these frequencies.

MarkK

whitebriar wrote: »

TG4 ... has the viewership of a fringe satelite station,occasionally artificially boosted by sports events that could easily be allocated to RTE2hd.

TG4 is watched about as much as BBC2 or Channel 4 in this country.
http://www.tamireland.ie/box-clever/tv-basics/share-and-reach

whitebriar wrote: »

s4c clirluin is very relevant.

It's not, S4C Clirluin was a duplicate station, only available on a minority of boxes, placed inconveniently on LCN 53, while the SD version was on LCN 4.
While TG4 HD would go on LCN 4 and would not need a SD simulcast on Saorview.

Your arguments don't make much sense to me, I don't see why Ireland should restrict itself to one mux to protect the reception of six UK muxes.
Especially when aside from a few "fringe" channels, the Freeview channels are available to all for free on satellite.

whitebriar

MarkK wrote: »

TG4 is watched about as much as BBC2 or Channel 4 in this country.
http://www.tamireland.ie/box-clever/tv-basics/share-and-reach

It is if you include the sporting events that could be shown on existing channels.

It's not, S4C Clirluin was a duplicate station, only available on a minority of boxes, placed inconveniently on LCN 53, while the SD version was on LCN 4.
While TG4 HD would go on LCN 4 and would not need a SD simulcast on Saorview.

Its farcical to suggest people with Hd equipment wouldn't watch the hd version of the channel.In fact most boxes force you in that when I used select s4c sd or itv 1 wales,I got a dialogue box to select ok for hd.

Your arguments don't make much sense to me, I don't see why Ireland should restrict itself to one mux to protect the reception of six UK muxes.
Especially when aside from a few "fringe" channels, the Freeview channels are available to all for free on satellite.

That's a by product of us cutting our cloth to suit our measure,not the reason I suggested it.
I've already said,I've no truck at all with a self financing mux2 operation.
As it stands,mux one is loss making never mind adding to those losses with a second one.

whitebriar

Ronnie Raygun wrote: »

I know what you meant. Just thought you might have been implying that RTE would be more likely to yield in these matters, if Sky were involved.

Well I believe,it makes perfect sense to think that they did.I also doubt very much that is what you were trying to imply I was saying.
In the absence of being privy to their private intercommunications,I guess you're entitled to your view too.

watty

It's nonsense.

Ronnie Raygun

whitebriar wrote: »

if it can't go on,it won't.

Is that the motto of your political party or something?

Could you maybe make up your mind what problem you have that deserves airing in this thread & stick to that? Leave the revolution for another day?

whitebriar

#yawn#

Deflection , earplugs and saying nonsense is the reply from the cosy concensus club?
I'm more convinced than ever.
Ye're rumbled lads