The true face of psychiatry

whiteonion

In China you're labeled mentally ill and put away in psychiatric institutions if you're a member of the Falun Gong movement In the United States the police will come and break down your door and arrest you if you refuse to drug your children with strong anti-psychotic mind-altering drugs. http://abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread688928/pg1 The psychiatrists are no better than the Zetas and other drug cartels. This is how they operate.

Scofflaw

Moved to Conspiracy Theories.

moderately,
Scofflaw

Monty Burnz

That was quick.

Dave!

So to summarise: a mother withheld medicine from her sick child against her doctor's recommendations, and then when Child Services tried to protect the child, the mother locked herself and the child in the building and fired a gun.

whiteonion

Risperdal is a highly addictive drug, famous for causing weight gain, leading to type2 diabetes. Anyone who puts children on psychoactive drugs should be considered a drug dealer and thrown in prison.

whiteonion

"Detroit SWAT team assaults African American mom who refused to medicate her daughter with antipsychotic drugs" http://www.naturalnews.com/032089_antipsychotic_drugs_health_freedom.html

My name is URL

You should watch the Louis Theroux documentary about children on anti-psychotic drugs.

It's on YouTube

It's shocking how many kids are put on meds in the US.

Monty Burnz

There's our old friend, Natural News again, the agenda-free righter of medical wrongs. Let's see what they are advertising today...

Well, there's a breakthrough in pain relief, using 'energy medicine' that you can download for the low price of $49.95. How does this amazing 'energy medicine work, I hear you ask? Well...

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Can anyone please point me to the physics of 'frequency vibrations' please? I'd like to learn more about the workings of the 'futuristic Matrix Transmitter'.

http://www.stonewaterstudio.com/PAIN.php

What else do we have...well, they are still pushing the Aronia berries to those who are a bit panicked about the Fukushima radiation (is it even at detectable levels in the US?). I'm sure there's no harm in eating berries, but cashing in on people's fears like that makes me a bit uncomfortable...

http://www.superberries.com/aroniaberry-101/health-benefits/natural_news

Or you can cure 'almost any cancer at home for $5.15 a day!'.

http://curecancerathome.com/B/

You just have to buy a book from one Bill Henderson that explains the miracle food that you need to eat that costs a mere $19.95. I'll save you guys the money, a quick Google reveals that the mystery food is flax oil. One Johanna Budwig figured it would cure cancer. What does the research say about it? "There is no reliable evidence available for the effectiveness of the full Budwig protocol, though it is said that "thousands of cancer patients" in Europe went on the Budwig diet after it was publicized." That's from Wikipedia, so take it for what it's worth.

So while there is certainly a discussion worth having about bad medicine and medical practice, I'm not really sure that Natural News is in a good place to be leading the charge.

CiaranMT

whiteonion wrote: »

"Detroit SWAT team assaults African American mom who refused to medicate her daughter with antipsychotic drugs" http://www.naturalnews.com/032089_antipsychotic_drugs_health_freedom.html

OP, do you not see how the authors of stories such as this are presenting the incident? Why is it you read and believe these accounts, and have such distrust of 'mainstream' media which generally present incidents in a much more impartial manner?

whiteonion

CiaranMT wrote: »

OP, do you not see how the authors of stories such as this are presenting the incident? Why is it you read and believe these accounts, and have such distrust of 'mainstream' media which generally present incidents in a much more impartial manner?

They are presenting the truth. She refused to put her child on dangerous drugs and therefore they decided to bust into her home and kidnap her child.

All this so that Big Pharma can profit.

Here is a clip of what happens to children on Risperdal.
This poor fella developed bitch tits.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-VouCjp_eI

King Mob

whiteonion wrote: »

They are presenting the truth. She refused to put her child on dangerous drugs and therefore they decided to bust into her home and kidnap her child.

All this so that Big Pharma can profit.

Here is a clip of what happens to children on Risperdal.
This poor fella developed bitch tits.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-VouCjp_eI

But how do you know that you are being presented with the whole, unbiased truth?
Natural News has money to be made from spreading fear and uncertainty about mainstream medicine, so by your own reasoning they must be lying and distorting things so they can profit, right?

My name is URL

Here's a load of other news sources in case anyone actually wants to discuss the topic, and not the possible biases of naturalnews.com =p

http://news.google.ie/news/more?hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=b8n&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&q=detroit+child&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ncl=dEwn7230xG1KOsMzQ6skTKbGSdKIM&ei=-oaoTfORF4XPhAfImozOCQ&sa=X&oi=news_result&ct=more-results&resnum=1&ved=0CCwQqgIwAA

humanji

whiteonion wrote: »

In China you're labeled mentally ill and put away in psychiatric institutions if you're a member of the Falun Gong movement In the United States the police will come and break down your door and arrest you if you refuse to drug your children with strong anti-psychotic mind-altering drugs. http://abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread688928/pg1 The psychiatrists are no better than the Zetas and other drug cartels. This is how they operate.

Using conspiracy sites to prove your point is like using the bible to prove the existence of god. And it also says that a doctor prescribed the drugs, not a psychiatrist.

Another point is that it's silly to try and claim that psychiatry is using the police to force medication on people. In the States, the child welfare system is shockingly bad. It's a safe bet that a minimal amount of effort was actualy put into the girls case in the first place, not because they don't care, but because they don't have the time or resources, and have to have a fairly quick turnover.

In this case, the mother broke the law. It's stupid and shouldn't have happened, but the police aren't there to pick and choose what they want to do. There was a weapon involed, SWAT were called and the charges racked up. The cops were only doing what they had to. Do you really think they knew anything other than a woman with a gun wouldn't give her daughter to child services?

Anyway, this case was a terrible example to pick because it's been exploited by those with an agenda. There are better examples of cases where children are being abused and given medication without thought. It's terrible that it happens, but painting all psychiatry with the one brush is like calling all Irish drunks, all bankers thieves or all priests pedophiles.

But medication isn't the be all and end all of psychiatry. There's a hell of a lot more to it. So decrying it because of a fraction of cases is a bit silly.

And what has Falun Gong got to do with it?

CiaranMT

humanji wrote: »

Using conspiracy sites to prove your point is like using the bible to prove the existence of god. And it also says that a doctor prescribed the drugs, not a psychiatrist.

Another point is that it's silly to try and claim that psychiatry is using the police to force medication on people. In the States, the child welfare system is shockingly bad. It's a safe bet that a minimal amount of effort was actualy put into the girls case in the first place, not because they don't care, but because they don't have the time or resources, and have to have a fairly quick turnover.

In this case, the mother broke the law. It's stupid and shouldn't have happened, but the police aren't there to pick and choose what they want to do. There was a weapon involed, SWAT were called and the charges racked up. The cops were only doing what they had to. Do you really think they knew anything other than a woman with a gun wouldn't give her daughter to child services?

Anyway, this case was a terrible example to pick because it's been exploited by those with an agenda. There are better examples of cases where children are being abused and given medication without thought. It's terrible that it happens, but painting all psychiatry with the one brush is like calling all Irish drunks, all bankers thieves or all priests pedophiles.

But medication isn't the be all and end all of psychiatry. There's a hell of a lot more to it. So decrying it because of a fraction of cases is a bit silly.

And what has Falun Gong got to do with it?

I'd be writing something like this if I''d the patience. Fair dues :P

whiteonion

CiaranMT wrote: »

An opening post comparing psychiatrists and their methods with drug-lords, questionable human rights practices in China and the like does not lend well to a reasoned debate. Especially one founded on a report from a site which clearly distorts the story so blatantly.

In China they put Falun Gong members in psychiatric institutions. In America they kick down your door and kidnap your child if you refuse to put your children on dangerous psychiatric drugs.

This is exactly what has happened. Don't accuse me of trying to "spin" the story. America is a medical tyranny. A fascist police state. Anyone who says otherwise is BLIND.

King Mob

whiteonion wrote: »

Don't accuse me of trying to "spin" the story.

Except you keep failing to mention the gun part.

So again, why do you believe a source like Natural News when they are subject to the same corruption you think mainstream medicine and sources are?

CiaranMT

whiteonion wrote: »

In China they put Falun Gong members in psychiatric institutions. In America they kick down your door and kidnap your child if you refuse to put your children on dangerous psychiatric drugs.

This is exactly what has happened. Don't accuse me of trying to "spin" the story. America is a medical tyranny. A fascist police state. Anyone who says otherwise is BLIND.

If you don't this post as an example of 'spinning' the story then I'll have to just disengage from the debate.

whiteonion

King Mob wrote: »

Except you keep failing to mention the gun part.

So again, why do you believe a source like Natural News when they are subject to the same corruption you think mainstream medicine and sources are?

If armed assailants try to kidnap you child it's just normal to try to defend yourself and your family. It doesn't make a difference if these armed assailants happen to be government sponsored thugs.

clever_name

whiteonion wrote: »

This is exactly what has happened. Don't accuse me of trying to "spin" the story. America is a medical tyranny. A fascist police state. Anyone who says otherwise is BLIND.

I might be wasting my time asking these questions as it appears that anyone who might think differently than you is blind, but I will hope for the best and ask.

whiteonion wrote: »

In China they put Falun Gong members in psychiatric institutions. In America they kick down your door and kidnap your child if you refuse to put your children on dangerous psychiatric drugs.

Who are "they"?psychiatrists or the "fascist police state"?

Do you believe that psychiatrists are the biggest threat to freedom in China?

Do you think that psychiatrists do anything other than dispense drugs?

I think the biggest question is this, is your problem with psychiatrists or what you see as corrupt governments?

Monty Burnz

whiteonion wrote: »

If armed assailants try to kidnap you child it's just normal to try to defend yourself and your family. It doesn't make a difference if these armed assailants happen to be government sponsored thugs.

Did armed assailants try to kidnap a child, or did unarmed social workers come to take a child to safety from a mother who defied professional medical advice? Or is it routine for SWAT teams to accompany social workers in the US?

I can see why you are struggling with the concept of biased reporting if you consider your description of the event to be accurate.

My name is URL

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Did armed assailants try to kidnap a child, or did unarmed social workers come to take a child to safety from a mother who defied professional medical advice? Or is it routine for SWAT teams to accompany social workers in the US?

The woman's GP had advised her not to administer the psychotropic drugs to the child. Leaving aside the obvious about SWAT teams getting involved, and the fact that the mother was in possession of a gun, do you think it's ok for the state to step in in cases like this? Officials are now saying that she doesn't need to be on any meds at this point in time.

Monty Burnz

My name is URL wrote: »

The woman's GP had advised her not to administer the psychotropic drugs to the child. Leaving aside the obvious about SWAT teams getting involved, and the fact that the mother was in possession of a gun, do you think it's ok for the state to step in in cases like this? Officials are now saying that she doesn't need to be on any meds at this point in time.

I have no idea - what do you think? Do you think the state should never intervene in how a parent raises their child?

I'm not a doctor, and I'm not intimately familiar with the details of the case. I only have an issue with the way people and organisations are so happy to spin events to suit their agenda.

Solair

There can be some very over the top reactions by social workers in many states. We've certainly seen that kind of thing in the past in Ireland when children were locked away in abusive institutions for no logical reason other than a local nun/priest or whatever took a dislike to the lifestyle of their mother e.g. single mom etc.

It shows why children's rights need to be enshrined in serious legislation.

There is no doubt that there is gross over prescription of psychiatric medication in the United States in particular, but also in other countries. There is also a gross over-diagnosis of autism, aspergers syndrome and ADDH type disorders.

I am not saying that those disorders do not exist, but in many cases that I have seen, it's just a disruptive kid or a kid with a personality that does not fit into the education system very well.

We had a situation where a psychiatrist diagnosed my cousin as being autistic. I noticed that she was not hearing things, looked confused and a bit miserable and suggested that maybe her parents get a new GP and see if they can get her to an ENT consultant. They did, and she turned out to be suffering from serious middle ear problems causing hearing problems hence, her lack of social interaction and speech development. The poor kid had almost no conductive hearing at all. She had some ear surgery to solve the problem and 6-months later she was interacting perfectly and with a bit of hard work caught up on speech development. Her hearing's not perfect, but it's more than enough to get by!

There are fad diagnosis in medicine and people need to be very careful about them. It's why second and third opinions are very important.

My name is URL

Monty Burnz wrote: »

I have no idea - what do you think? Do you think the state should never intervene in how a parent raises their child?

I'm not a doctor, and I'm not intimately familiar with the details of the case. I only have an issue with the way people and organisations are so happy to spin events to suit their agenda.

I think they should damn sure of their convictions before they act. Mistakes are always going to happen but whether they can be rectified or not is another matter.. in this case it seems unlikely that they will be rectified.

Does anything ever happen in the world which people do not spin to suit their own agenda? Whatever spin is being put on things doesn't negate the facts, and shouldn't be the basis of any argument against those facts.

Monty Burnz

My name is URL wrote: »

I think they should damn sure of their convictions before they act. Mistakes are always going to happen but whether they can be rectified or not is another matter.. in this case it seems unlikely that they will be rectified.

I presume they were sure. They probably didn't do it for a lark, but as I said I'm not as familiar with the case as those who made the decisions so I won't pronounce on whether it was right or wrong.

My name is URL wrote: »

Does anything ever happen in the world which people do not spin to suit their own agenda? Whatever spin is being put on things doesn't negate the facts, and shouldn't be the basis of any argument against those facts.

And as a consequence, when people come here with their spin-tastic claims, we spend most of the time debating the spin rather than debating the substantive issue - in this case, the attempt to force a child to be treated by psychiatric medicine against the will of its mother.

CiaranMT

Solair wrote: »

We had a situation where a psychiatrist diagnosed my cousin as being autistic. I noticed that she was not hearing things, looked confused and a bit miserable and suggested that maybe her parents get a new GP and see if they can get her to an ENT consultant. They did, and she turned out to be suffering from serious middle ear problems causing hearing problems hence, her lack of social interaction and speech development. The poor kid had almost no conductive hearing at all. She had some ear surgery to solve the problem and 6-months later she was interacting perfectly and with a bit of hard work caught up on speech development. Her hearing's not perfect, but it's more than enough to get by!

There are fad diagnosis in medicine and people need to be very careful about them. It's why second and third opinions are very important.

Jesus, you'd think something as serious as a possible ASD diagnosis would automatically go to for a second opinion?

whiteonion

That says a whole lot about "psychiatrists" don't it? They diagnose people with illnesses they don't have so they can get kickbacks from Big Pharma when they sell their "medicines".

clever_name

whiteonion wrote: »

That says a whole lot about "psychiatrists" don't it? They diagnose people with illnesses they don't have so they can get kickbacks from Big Pharma when they sell their "medicines".

Any chance of a reply to my questions?

thanks

CiaranMT

whiteonion wrote: »

That says a whole lot about "psychiatrists" don't it? They diagnose people with illnesses they don't have so they can get kickbacks from Big Pharma when they sell their "medicines".

Question.

Who would you have treat and take care of people who suffer from paranoid schizophrenia, borderline personality disorder and the like?

And what about people with intellectual disabilities? Specific ones like ASDs, Down's Syndrome, or non-specific ones where there was an issue during pregnancy?

<snip>

Monty Burnz

whiteonion wrote: »

That says a whole lot about "psychiatrists" don't it? They diagnose people with illnesses they don't have so they can get kickbacks from Big Pharma when they sell their "medicines".

Any chance of some proof? What kind of sums are we talking about? What is the mechanism for these kickbacks? (e.g. paid straight into bank accounts, man with brown envelope comes around etc)

How much would a psychiatrist expect to get paid? Is it per customer, or is it by volume of drugs sold?

I'm curious because psychiatrists are very well paid, so I imagine it would need to be a decent whack of money to convince them to prescribe drugs that they know will harm their patients, in violation of every ethical standard of the medical profession.

Priori

Perhaps we should leave 'diagnosing' up to supercomputers...

One Nanostep for Technology, One Quantum Leap for Psychiatry