I don't understand the Mac vs PC debates

Pete Digger

I've been following, and often participating in the Mac/PC wars for longer than I care to remember. But it seems to me that these days, the arguments are largely redundant, for two reasons.

The first is that both Snow Leopard (and hopefully, Lion) and Windows 7 are excellent operating systems. I enjoy using both. If there was a user-friendliness gap between the two in the past, Microsoft have pretty much caught up. Likewise, there's little on a PC these days that you can't also do on a Mac (nothing, if you have Bootcamp and dual OSs). Both are great to use and what will happen in the future is tweaking, not transformations.

The other thing is that Apple these days is more a multi-media operation - the computers' part of their income is, as a proportion of sales, increasingly smaller, year-on-year. iPhones and iPod hardware, iTunes, iStore etc is where the money's at, and wait till downloadable movies come down in price enough to kick-start sales.

People arguing over operating systems remind me of that Japanese soldier who was found in the 1950s, out in the jungle and still fighting WW2 all on his own. Weird.

Sad Professor

Pete Digger wrote: »

.The other thing is that Apple these days is more a multi-media operation - the computers' part of their income is, as a proportion of sales, increasingly smaller, year-on-year. iPhones and iPod hardware, iTunes, iStore etc is where the money's at, and wait till downloadable movies come down in price enough to kick-start sales.

Just to point out - this isn't true. Apple insist that they make a very small profit on the iTunes/App Store, and that their goal is just to break even with it. They use iTunes to encourage hardware sales, so hardware is still what they make their profit on. And the Mac side of their business has never been better. Apple earned $22 billion from it last year, which is about a third of their total revenue. Their iOS business is obviously much bigger, but the Mac is still huge.

maccored

desaparecidos wrote: »

Mac user greater than thou arragance overload.

sorry, who is the mac user you're on about? Im a windows, linux and mac user.

AlmightyCushion

PeakOutput wrote: »

If anyone could be bothered (because I am not) I would be interested in finding out what the equivalent of my imac would cost if it was a windows machine including the os and everything else i would need

27inch 2560 * 1440 display
2.93ghz intel core i7
12gb of ram
1tb western digital 7200 (ghz????) harddrive


I got friends and family discount from an apple staff member but without it it would have cost under $2,500 plus the after market ram which was around 200 I think

I managed to spec up a dell with an i7 2600 @3.4Ghz, 12GBs RAM, 1.5Tb Hard drive and a ATI 5670 for €1179. Dell don't seem to sell their 27" or 30" monitors here for some reason but the apple 27" cinema display is about €1000 or so. If you were willing to build it yourself you should be able to get something better with similar money.

PeakOutput

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

I managed to spec up a dell with an i7 2600 @3.4Ghz, 12GBs RAM, 1.5Tb Hard drive and a ATI 5670 for €1179. Dell don't seem to sell their 27" or 30" monitors here for some reason but the apple 27" cinema display is about €1000 or so. If you were willing to build it yourself you should be able to get something better with similar money.

so i actually got my mac for cheaper then that great success it would only have been marginally cheaper if i paid the full dollar price as well so that is suprising

AlmightyCushion

PeakOutput wrote: »

so i actually got my mac for cheaper then that great success it would only have been marginally cheaper if i paid the full dollar price as well so that is suprising

The self build I made was significantly cheaper (about €1900 total) and had more RAM and a more powerful graphics card, the quality of the components was probably better than the dell as well. The problem is I have no idea how to link to a hardwareversand basket.

shtoat

BlastedGlute wrote: »

What does that even mean? You've never used GIMP instead of photoshop? Or VLC instead of AllPlayer?????

There is simply nothing you cant do on a PC that you can do on a Mac. Nothing.

How about run OSX?

ZENER

shtoat wrote: »

How about run OSX?

Not exactly true

Ken

deceit

shtoat wrote: »

How about run OSX?

This can be done just not legally because of eula or something like that but am sure many people that want to use osx and have pc's have tried it, its not that hard (I wont say anymore about it though on boards.)

spannerotoole

If you want to get out of the debate, just use linux, it's powerful and it runs on everything.

Ranicand

I started this thread and I still say the debates are pointless.

PC or Mac I could work or play on either.

For playing around with my media I like the Macs more.

However that is a choice.

Computers have come a long way Windows XP always crashed for me and got loads of bugs.

I liked Vista and from what I have read Windows 7 is even better.

Mac OS is also a great system and I like it.

I also tried Ubuntu for a while and I know it has it's fans but I have to say it was a pain in the backside.

Windows 7 and Mac OS are bolt very strong I like Mac OS more and that is my personal choice.

Desktop computers may become a thing of the past in the next few years anyway.

I like mobile devices but they are no replacement for a good desktop in my opinion.

muggyog

....and as the credits roll

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-22EpQOm8c

Ranicand

muggyog wrote: »

....and as the credits roll

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-22EpQOm8c

Funny.:D

Talisman

Sad Professor wrote: »

And the Mac side of their business has never been better. Apple earned $22 billion from it last year, which is about a third of their total revenue. Their iOS business is obviously much bigger, but the Mac is still huge.

Apple have a small portion of the overall computer hardware market but they have a large portion of the niche that they are in. Apple's market share of PCs over $1,000 hits 66% (2008).

cornbb

BlastedGlute wrote: »

There is simply nothing you cant do on a PC that you can do on a Mac. Nothing.

Tosh. You can't run Xcode on a PC. You can't develop iOS apps on a PC. If you are an audio professional you can't run Logic or Digital Performer on a PC. Can you do things like run your PC in target disk mode?

Conversely, if you have a Mac, you can run Windows on it. Therefore, any software that is built to run on Windows can be run on a Mac.

The opposite is NOT true.

These debates are always pointless and people make astounding assertions that only show their ignorance.

fasty

Well, you can run Mac OS X on a PC

And the XCode debate makes no sense since it has a (superior) counterpart in the form of Visual Studio on PC. Similarly, you can't develop Direct 3D games on a Mac.

I'm with you that the debate is pointless, despite the irony of your final statement!

cornbb

fasty wrote: »

Well, you can run Mac OS X on a PC

Not any PC, the hardware requirements are quite specific. Its not supported, it is a complete kludge and is not an option for your average Joe User. On the other hand, installing Windows on any modern Mac is fully supported and there are several free and commercial options to help you do so.

And the XCode debate makes no sense since it has a (superior) counterpart in the form of Visual Studio on PC. Similarly, you can't develop Direct 3D games on a Mac.

My point is that you have the option of running things like Visual Studio on the Mac, fully supported (and I have done so in the past). I'm saying the argument that a Mac can't do everything a PC can do is nonsense.

I'd like to hear you elaborate on exactly what it is you think I'm ignorant about...

fasty

Well, I was having fun about the ignorance thing, but okay!

It's a logical fallacy to say that because a PC can't run XCode, a PC can't do anything a Mac can do. You can never do a like for like comparison with actual applications. I mean, if you couldn't write and compile code on a PC, you'd be on to a winner there.

Likewise, you can't separate a Mac from the OS. A Mac is as much OS X as it is the hardware. It's ridiculous so say that because it's harder to run OS X on a PC than is it Windows on a Mac is pushing it as an argument!

Hell, I guess it makes as much sense as saying these sort of debates are stupid, then giving your opinion on why one is better!

srsly78

Hardware debate is completely pointless, since both platforms are the same. OS debate however has some valid points.

MacOS not fully supported by MS Office, only has a lite version available (no excel vba, so no good in finance for example). However, can't develop for iphone on Windows. This is caused by Apple tho, not by anything wrong with Windows. With Android you can run the development tools on any platform you want (linux, mac, windows).

And the most valid point: gaming is still very weak on the mac. Sure it is catching up these days, but most mac gamers will dual-boot windows.

cornbb

fasty wrote: »

It's a logical fallacy to say that because a PC can't run XCode, a PC can't do anything a Mac can do. You can never do a like for like comparison with actual applications. I mean, if you couldn't write and compile code on a PC, you'd be on to a winner there.

I said a PC can't do 'EVERYTHING' a mac can't do, not 'anything'. There's a big difference. My logic is sound. Granted, you can do 99% of everything on both platforms. But the remaining 1% (e.g. things like Xcode, Logic, Final Cut) are deal-breakers for some people because they simply need to run these things.

Likewise, you can't separate a Mac from the OS. A Mac is as much OS X as it is the hardware. It's ridiculous so say that because it's harder to run OS X on a PC than is it Windows on a Mac is pushing it as an argument!

It is not, because in the real world, this is a very real constraint. Mac OS has been explicitly designed to work only on the Mac platform for decades, it has been designed to make it as difficult as possible to install OS X on generic hardware therefore to dismiss installing OS X on a PC as being as easy as installing Windows on a Mac makes no sense.

Hell, I guess it makes as much sense as saying these sort of debates are stupid, then giving your opinion on why one is better!

I don't actually believe that one is better than the other, I believe that one platform or the other will be better for some people depending on what they need to do, or, for the majority of users, they are probably much of a muchness.

I'm not evangelising the Mac here, I'm just fed up of hearing people diss my platform of choice when they know nothing about it. My line of work for the last 5 years has been Cocoa/iOS development work so the line "There is simply nothing you cant do on a PC that you can do on a Mac. Nothing" was certainly news to me :rolleyes:

fasty

Your interpretation of nothing would make Raymond Babbitt proud! Bravo!

I'm not accusing you of evangelizing the Mac at all. Coming from developing applications using MS' lower level libraries to using Cocoa a last year for iOS and Mac apps was a pretty magical experience for me despite XCode's (slowly disappearing) shortcomings.

For a long time, I didn't even own a PC and relied on a VM for all my Windows requirements until the capabilities of VMs and my last few Mac's crappy video cards meant I needed to build my first PC in 5 years.

Now I have an i7 Macbook Pro, I wonder how long my i7 PC will last? My laptop is actually more powerful than it

cgarrad

Hobbes

The main points that PC users fail to realise that 1:1 the Macs generally work out the same or less then the PC counter part.

People normally quote the "Build my own machine" but they don't factor in any of the building, support that comes with that. Also they don't try to match exactly (just spec, not form, weight).

I would be very surprised if a PC version of the Mac Book Air existed *with the exact same or better specs and same weight/battery power* With the new Macs released today they have pretty much underlined the pricing has dropped.

I'll see your image of two random guys without shoes and raise you this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7wfHStzm24

Hobbes

BlastedGlute wrote: »

Play Crysis on max settings.

Yes.. yes you can. Depends on the Mac you have.

Savman

Without resorting to technoblurb, I made the move to Mac last Summer and it's not hard to see what all the fuss is about. My last PC was a Dell that set me back the guts of €800 in the height of Celtic Tiger era. That machine served me well, but only cos I had to become a maintenance Nazi, running scans nearly every week for Spyware, Adware, Virus and Parasites of all types. It was a constant operation. I had very few problems, but only cos I stayed on top of it from the start having previously had a €1.5k laptop die after 3 months (blue screen of death is not a myth).

As a Mac user now, I can tell you unreservedly that it is a far more stable system to use, nowhere near as bloated and none of those poxy 'runtime' errors that used to plague Windows. No machine can claim to have 0% failure rate, however the problems with Windows PCs are endless, I helped 4-5 family members buy Dell machines and within months (some within weeks) nearly all complained of systems crashing, instability, or just slow as a dog. And this would just be for general browsing and emailing, nothing that should be too taxing on a CPU and RAM.

So every chance I get, I will try convince a PC user to at least consider the Mac alternative, by comparing more than just the price tag. Apart from being better built units, Apple users are spoiled with excellent displays. I have the 27" iMac and can safely say there's no going back.

So make of this Mac V PC thing what you will, there may be arguments both sides but ultimately one is quite simply superior. Sure, choice is a good thing, I welcome it cos it forces Apple to fight for their market dominance.

PC brigade....come on in, the water is warm.

desaparecidos

Apparently Dell are the only "manufacturer" of PCs.

Crackity Jones

Kavrocks wrote: »

I have been trying to find a PC version of the Macbook Air with close to the exact same specs for over a month now but have found it hard.

The new Samsung series 9 is a competitor (not sure when/if its going to be launched here) but is a couple hundred $ more expensive than the Air. Have to say I'm a big fan of the new Air and hope to pick one up in the not too distant future.

http://www.samsung.com/us/computer/laptops/NP900X3A-A03US

PeakOutput

Do linux computers count as 'pcs'? Becuase I seem to remember something about the majority of the us goverment (not admin) using some form of linux / unix and not using windows

also nasa uses solaris, red hat and osX

Kavrocks

Crackity Jones wrote: »

The new Samsung series 9 is a competitor (not sure when/if its going to be launched here) but is a couple hundred $ more expensive than the Air. Have to say I'm a big fan of the new Air and hope to pick one up in the not too distant future.

http://www.samsung.com/us/computer/laptops/NP900X3A-A03US

The best I have found is a Lenovo, its a few hundred dearer and still doesn't look as good as the Air.

Just on the Air there are rumours that a new one will come out sometime in June with the new Intel processors and Sandy Bridge technology. I myself am going to wait until September before deciding what to buy but at the moment I can't see anything that would suit me better than the Air that's cheaper or worth its price.

Trevor451

Windows is vastly superior to the crippled operating system apple makes