refusing to pay for a haircut?

slyme

is refusing to pay for a haircut legal?

today i got my haircut in a barbers and was outraged at the state the barber left it in. the woman litterly butchered my hair and when i asked her was she qualified to cut hair she couldnt speak english. her friend verbally attacked me and was within an inch of my face. i demanded to see the manager and asked for this woman to produce some form of papers but they refused.
her collegue told me to leave without paying after this massive altercation. as i was leaving she then changed her mind and said she was calling the guards. i said go ahead but she didnt. i left and the woman grabed me by the arm and said she would take a photo. i wouldnt allow her take the photo and said i would come see the manager which she had just rang.
i feel so humiliated after all this and my hair is in an awful state.
i asked this woman to cut my hair then found out she couldnt even speak english after she had done so!

was i within my rights to refuse to pay?

MagicSean

You don't need qualifications to cut hair. If you believe the person cutting your hair should have qualifications you should check before hand, as with any service.

Obtaining a service and not paying is an offence under section 8 of the Theft and Fraud Offences Act.

However, you are not simply refusing to pay to get out of it, you are not satisfied with the service provided so the act would not apply here and it is more in the realms of a contractual dispute and is a civil matter.

sealgaire

You were right not to pay for it!
She obvously isn't being paid through the books either. I would report to revenue . .

slyme wrote: »

is refusing to pay for a haircut legal?

today i got my haircut in a barbers and was outraged at the state the barber left it in. the woman litterly butchered my hair and when i asked her was she qualified to cut hair she couldnt speak english. her friend verbally attacked me and was within an inch of my face. i demanded to see the manager and asked for this woman to produce some form of papers but they refused.
her collegue told me to leave without paying after this massive altercation. as i was leaving she then changed her mind and said she was calling the guards. i said go ahead but she didnt. i left and the woman grabed me by the arm and said she would take a photo. i wouldnt allow her take the photo and said i would come see the manager which she had just rang.
i feel so humiliated after all this and my hair is in an awful state.
i asked this woman to cut my hair then found out she couldnt even speak english after she had done so!

was i within my rights to refuse to pay?

slyme

i was willing to pay at the start but they thought my motive was to get away without paying! so then when they said i could leave i chose to do so but then she changed her mind.

whatabout the woman not been able to speak english?

MagicSean

sealgaire wrote: »

She obvously isn't being paid through the books either.

Why do you say that?

Is having an English speaking hairdresser important to you?

The Gardai have no place in this matter. I agree with k_mac this is a civil dispute, although more appropriately it's a civil dispute that isn't worth pursuing.

testicle

sealgaire wrote: »

She obvously isn't being paid through the books either. I would report to revenue . .

That's a very wide gulf you've bridged there...

sealgaire

slyme wrote: »

i was willing to pay at the start but they thought my motive was to get away without paying! so then when they said i could leave i chose to do so but then she changed her mind.

whatabout the woman not been able to speak english?

She probably hasn't been here long and may over short term to earn easy money via friends. A lot of that goes on in my line of work (cash in hand for a few weeks work)

MagicSean

slyme wrote: »

i was willing to pay at the start but they thought my motive was to get away without paying! so then when they said i could leave i chose to do so but then she changed her mind.

Her co-worker is most likely not in a position to forgive your debt.

slyme wrote: »

whatabout the woman not been able to speak english?

That's not against the law. Presumably you had some conversation with her before hand to tell her what you wanted?

sealgaire

Ah you are a typical boards.ie poster k_mac. . . . . . .:rolleyes:

MagicSean

sealgaire wrote: »

Ah you are a typical boards.ie poster k_mac. . . . . . .:rolleyes:

Not sure what you are getting at.

BigDuffman

slyme wrote: »

asked for this woman to produce some form of papers but they refused. her collegue told me to leave without paying after this massive altercation./QUOTE]

They have every right to refuse to show you anything. You are not a Garda or any other form of legaly recognized official that has the right to make demands of anyone.

If you are not satisfied with your haircut, you should of waited for the manager. Understandably when things get heated all you want to do is get out of there. But gestapo-like demanding of someones papers us certainly one way to escalate a situation.

slyme

Deleted User wrote: »

Is having an English speaking hairdresser important to you?

obviously it is, i mighten even be in this mess if the person could of spoken english and no we didnt have a conversation before she cut my hair.

MagicSean

slyme wrote: »

obviously it is, i mighten even be in this mess if the person could of spoken english and no we didnt have a conversation before she cut my hair.

Why not? Did you just sit down and expect her to read your mind as to what you want?

slyme

slyme wrote: »

obviously it is, i mighten even be in this mess if the person could of spoken english and no we didnt have a conversation before she cut my hair.

I was unaware that people outside anglophone countries were incapable of cutting hair. I have to admit this is a revelation to me.

On a more serious note is it not incumbent upon you to ensure that you have properly communicated what it is you want before having your hair cut? Are you telling me that you sat down and she cut your hair without either you or her conversing at all? You never told her what you wanted? She never asked you?

slyme

BigDuffman wrote: »

slyme wrote: »

asked for this woman to produce some form of papers but they refused. her collegue told me to leave without paying after this massive altercation./QUOTE]

They have every right to refuse to show you anything. You are not a Garda or any other form of legaly recognized official that has the right to make demands of anyone.

If you are not satisfied with your haircut, you should of waited for the manager. Understandably when things get heated all you want to do is get out of there. But gestapo-like demanding of someones papers us certainly one way to escalate a situation.

most irish barbers have their college certificates on the walls. all i wanted to know was she qualified to cut hair and her collegue answered me with ''shes a nice woman and cut many hair''. i said that she probably was a nice person but didnt changed the fact that she destroyed my hair!!! i dont think this person new what she was doing. i never refused to pay for a service before but felt so strongly about this

slyme

Deleted User wrote: »

I was unaware that people outside anglophone countries were incapable of cutting hair. I have to admit this is a revelation to me.

On a more serious note is it not incumbent upon you to ensure that you have properly communicated what it is you want before having your hair cut? Are you telling me that you sat down and she cut your hair without either you or her conversing at all? You never told her what you wanted? She never asked you?

she looked at me after she put the cape around my neck, an indication of what i would like. i said a three at the sides and scissors on top and not to take much off the top and she said OK. it was as simple as that.

I ASSUMED THIS PERSON COULD UNDERSTAND ENGLISH SINCE WE DO LIVE IN IRELAND

234

Realistically if they want the money they will have to pursue a contract claim, or possible quantum meruit but the cost of this would be many, many times the cost of the haircut. They have probably already written it off. Just don't go in there again. BTW what was the conversation before she cut your hair like?

user1842

Deleted User wrote: »

Is having an English speaking hairdresser important to you?

The Gardai have no place in this matter. I agree with k_mac this is a civil dispute, although more appropriately it's a civil dispute that isn't worth pursuing.

This is interesting, if you dont pay your taxi fare, the driver will call the Gardai straight away. How is this different?

slyme

slyme wrote: »

most irish barbers have their college certificates on the walls. all i wanted to know was she qualified to cut hair and her collegue answered me with ''shes a nice woman and cut many hair''. i said that she probably was a nice person but didnt changed the fact that she destroyed my hair!!! i dont think this person new what she was doing. i never refused to pay for a service before but felt so strongly about this

Shouldn't you really check this in advance? There is no regulator for cutting hair by the way. You can open a barbers tomorrow if you like, there's nothing stopping you. Caveat emptor has to apply here surely? (As a broad and obviously almost meaningless legal phrase at this stage)

I KNOW MOST IRISH PEOPLE SPEAK ENGLISH THERE'S NO NEED TO SHOUT!!

However, I would imagine that there would have been clues that this woman was not a native English speaker pretty quickly, no?

Reloc8

slyme wrote: »

she looked at me after she put the cape around my neck, an indication of what i would like. i said a three at the sides and scissors on top and not to take much off the top and she said OK. it was as simple as that.

I ASSUMED THIS PERSON COULD UNDERSTAND ENGLISH SINCE WE DO LIVE IN IRELAND

Until this post I presumed the OP was a girl.

(no offence ladies).

chiefbrody1974

I dunno bout this, it seems straight forward to me. Firstly if it said barbers on the door, then they must be qualified and are then taken as such. If she could not understand your indications as to how you wished to have your hair cut, then bloody sure you have a right to be pissed off and walk out. Dont mind all these idiots trying to indicate that you're unreasonable. That's like going into DID electrical and asking for a plasma screen TV with built in surround sound and being handed a crappy portable because though the "salesperson" just works there, but she's actually not qualified and couldnt understand your specifications because she cant speak english!!! Its a bloody no brainer!!! and you are required to speak a certain level of english whilst working in the service industry, cutting hair is a service!!

You're damn right not to pay, take no crap off them. you should have let her taken a pic alright, because if she put it on the wall, customers would not bother calling in there in future, if you hair is indeed that bad!!

MagicSean

dmclean1842 wrote: »

This is interesting, if you dont pay your taxi fare, the driver will call the Gardai straight away. How is this different?

Because you either got to where you asked to go or you didn't. If you asked to go one place and he brought you somewhere else he could hardly expect payment.

chiefbrody1974

chiefbrody1974 wrote: »

Firstly if it said barbers on the door, then they must be qualified and are then taken as such.

While there may be an issue of misrepresentation they don't have to be qualified under any law or regulation that I am aware of.

If she could not understand your indications as to how you wished to have your hair cut, then bloody sure you have a right to be pissed off and walk out. Dont mind all these idiots trying to indicate that you're unreasonable.

While she does have a right to be annoyed that right is not based on the persons ability to speak English, or lack thereof.

That's like going into DID electrical and asking for a plasma screen TV with built in surround sound and being handed a crappy portable because though the "salesperson" just works there, but she's actually not qualified and couldnt understand your specifications because she cant speak english!!!

No, it's not like that at all. I was unaware that people in DID Electrical needed special qualifications to work there.

Its a bloody no brainer!!! and you are required to speak a certain level of english whilst working in the service industry, cutting hair is a service!!

Where does it say you need any English to work in the service industry?

I think OP should be annoyed if they got a terrible haircut and certainly should not have to pay for it but the overall tenor of this thread ("can't speak English, bloody cheek") is really quite disturbing.

user1842

k_mac wrote: »

Because you either got to where you asked to go or you didn't. If you asked to go one place and he brought you somewhere else he could hardly expect payment.

Yes but if it was disputed as it was here, you are guaranteed that the Gardai would be called.

Question is that, can you call the Gardai in a matter like this?

chiefbrody1974

k_mac wrote: »

Because you either got to where you asked to go or you didn't. If you asked to go one place and he brought you somewhere else he could hardly expect payment.

I agree, and would a taxi driver ask for full payment for dropping you off half way??? he asked for a haircut and got something else, end of story!

tbabit

The following was taken from consumerconnect.ie, (it assumes you paid for the service though!)

Q1. I paid for a service but it was not carried out in accordance with the original description given. What steps can I take to get redress?

Under the Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act 1980, you have the right to expect that a person providing a service:
Has the skill to provide the service and to carry it out properly
Will provide the service with due care and diligence
Will use materials that are sound and fit for their purpose
Supplies goods or services of merchantable (acceptable) quality
If the services do not meet these criteria, you may be entitled to full or partial redress. The form or amount of redress will depend on the circumstances of each individual case.
Firstly, we suggest you make a complaint to the service provider. Read our complaint guide, which contains important information on the steps needed to make an effective complaint.
If you are not happy with their offer and your claim is €2,000 or less, you may be able to pursue this issue in the Small Claims Court.
You will first need to contact the Small Claims Registrar directly to see if the Registrar will accept your case. Read more about the Small Claims process.

user1842

chiefbrody1974 wrote: »

I agree, and would a taxi driver ask for full payment for dropping you off half way??? he asked for a haircut and got something else, end of story!

Ok but if your taxi driver brought you to your destination but brought you a massively long way round just to make extra money.

In theory you got to your destination but not in a fair way.

Can the taxi driver call the cops.

This happened to me by the way. I was coming home from the airport to Ranelagh and he took the M50. It cost €65, I refused to pay and offered him €30 which is what is costs normally. He called the Gardai.

Its a very similar situation to the above.

Im just wondering if he had any right to call the Gardai?

MagicSean

chiefbrody1974 wrote: »

I agree, and would a taxi driver ask for full payment for dropping you off half way??? he asked for a haircut and got something else, end of story!

No, he asked for a haircut and got a haircut.

chiefbrody1974

Deleted User wrote: »

While there may be an issue of misrepresentation they don't have to be qualified under any law or regulation that I am aware of.

So it's his hard luck he was conned and takes a ligitimate business at face value??? what an idiot eh???



While she does have a right to be annoyed that right is not based on the persons ability to speak English, or lack thereof.
To understand his wishes, you need to speak the language, that's required in any country when dealing with the locals, dont me so ridiculous!!!
Could you work in China cutting hair with not a word of the language???
wow, you use of universal telepathy is unreal!!!



No, it's not like that at all. I was unaware that people in DID Electrical needed special qualifications to work there. EH, you do actually, they're not exactly 4 diplomas but staff training is required and so you are qualified!!! another stupid statement from ya!!



Where does it say you need any English to work in the service industry?
How can you ask a waiter in Dublin city for the specials if he doesnt speak english, and cannot tell you or understand your question!!!! and since they are required to know them, he is not doing his job is he!!!!

I think OP should be annoyed if they got a terrible haircut and certainly should not have to pay for it but the overall tenor of this thread ("can't speak English, bloody cheek") is really quite disturbing.

YOU're disturbing!!!!:D

MagicSean

dmclean1842 wrote: »

Ok but if your taxi driver brought you to your destination but brought you a massively long way round just to make extra money.

In theory you got to your destination but not in a fair way.

Can the taxi driver call the cops.

This happened to me by the way. I was coming home from the airport to Ranelagh and he took the M50. It cost €65, I refused to pay and offered him €30 which is what is costs normally. He called the Gardai.

Its a very similar situation to the above.

Im just wondering if he had any right to call the Gardai?

He has a right. However in a case like this all the Gardaí should do is confirm your identity because it is a civil matter. In a case like that I would also contact the regulator for good measure.

EL_Loco

k_mac wrote: »

No, he asked for a haircut and got a haircut.

If you went for a haircut and they put your fringe between their fingers and chopped off a bit of it then held out their hand and said "pay me I've given you a haircut" would you pay?

chiefbrody1974

chiefbrody1974 wrote: »

YOU're disturbing!!!!:D

First off, I haven't made any stupid statements and I'd ask you to keep pejorative comments like that to yourself.

I am being unnecessarily pedantic, I'll admit that, but you're not grasping what I am getting at.

Yes, the OP should be aggrieved that they got a bad haircut and yes there are means by which they can address this but the solution is not worth the hassle.

I agree that people in the service industry should speak the language of their customers but they are not legally required to do so. Suggesting otherwise is false.

Staff training in DID Electrical is not a qualification of any sorts. Qualification has a specific meaning which does not cover in-house training by a junior manager in a retail store.

This is all quite off-topic now so I won't engage further other than to say that the initial legal point is being lost in this nonsense about being able to speak English.

chiefbrody1974

Deleted User wrote: »

While there may be an issue of misrepresentation they don't have to be qualified under any law or regulation that I am aware of.





Where does it say you need any English to work in the service industry?


How can you ask a waiter in Dublin city for the specials if he doesnt speak english, and cannot tell you or understand your question!!!! and since they are required to know them, he is not doing his job is he!!!!

Le King

If the haircut was generally a bad one the provider would usually offer it for free as a gesture for a mistake. However, if you feel that the service provided was of poor quality then you don't have to pay.

If that was the case they could snip a hair out and demand the fee.

Regardless, the Gardaí aren't involved here. It's a civil matter. One that definitely isn't wort pursuing.

I would never pay for a bad haircut and a good reputable barber will never charge you for a mistake on his behalf.

I imagine this was one of the €7 barbers? Usually the good ones are about €12-14 as you are paying for a better service.

The only thing you have gained from this is the knowledge not to return to that barbers again. Oh, and a bad haircut. :P

Humans eh!

I haven't been to a hairdresser since 2008.
I have always been disappointed with results as they never get it how you want it.
I always paid though and got so pissed off paying for crap service I decided to cut my own hair. The results though not fantastic are equal to any hairdresser I've been to and I have tried them all even very expensive ones.
I'm getting quite good at it now. <link (not me btw)

People genuinely don't believe that I cut my own hair when I tell them and seem to just assume that my barber is a bit lacsadasical.
But I don't give a f**k what anyone thinks of my hair anyway.

Anyhoo, I also thought OP was female!
Jeez man get over it, it was a haircut not plastic surgery. Do it yourself if its that important.
"If you cut it - It will grow" :pac:

chiefbrody1974

Deleted User wrote: »

First off, I haven't made any stupid statements and I'd ask you to keep pejorative comments like that to yourself.

I am being unnecessarily pedantic, I'll admit that, but you're not grasping what I am getting at.

Yes, the OP should be aggrieved that they got a bad haircut and yes there are means by which they can address this but the solution is not worth the hassle.

I agree that people in the service industry should speak the language of their customers but they are not legally required to do so. Suggesting otherwise is false.

Staff training in DID Electrical is not a qualification of any sorts. Qualification has a specific meaning which does not cover in-house training by a junior manager in a retail store.

This is all quite off-topic now so I won't engage further other than to say that the initial legal point is being lost in this nonsense about being able to speak English.

AHHHH finally, it was my "can I see the specials waiter?" comparison that got the point home. And it was you who brought up the english requirement issue. I accept your apolgies

chiefbrody1974

EL_Loco wrote: »

If you went for a haircut and they put your fringe between their fingers and chopped off a bit of it then held out their hand and said "pay me I've given you a haircut" would you pay?

great point, youre absolutley right but obviously there are those that would!!!

Tom Young

This thread is getting a little hairy!

coylemj

slyme wrote: »

obviously it is, i mighten even be in this mess if the person could of spoken english and no we didnt have a conversation before she cut my hair.

So you didn't speak to her before you let her cut your hair - why does it matter afterwards if you discover she can't speak English?

Most lads would tell the barber what number trimmer fitting to use on the back and sides or the barber will take a look at the guy and suggest i.e he might say 'number 4 back and sides?'.

If there was no such communication between you and the lady i.e. you choose to take your chances, then the fact that she doesn't speak English is irrelevant.

angelfire9

Tom Young wrote: »

This thread is getting a little hairy!

:D:D

Jev/N

All I want to know: how much did it cost and how was it wrong from what you wanted - simples!

Martyn1989

POST A PIC OF THE HAIRCUT!!!

Merch

slyme wrote: »

is refusing to pay for a haircut legal?

i left and the woman grabed me by the arm and said she would take a photo.

I'd be inclined to think you cant take someones picture if they decline, Im certain they cant grab you, thats assault.

@bigduffman

They have every right to refuse to show you anything. You are not a Garda or any other form of legaly recognized official that has the right to make demands of anyone.

If you are not satisfied with your haircut, you should of waited for the manager. Understandably when things get heated all you want to do is get out of there. But gestapo-like demanding of someones papers us certainly one way to escalate a situation.

If I engage the services of someone I'm entitled to ask if they are qualified, there are health and safety concerns in any job and Im sure there are some specific to barbering or hairdressing, Its at least a level 4 FETAC award.
By your rational, if I engage someone that I think to be a gas installer/or electrician I'm behaving like the Stasi if I ask to see some qualifications? I dont need to be some appointed official to ask at all.

Got a haircut recently, the bloke was not cutting it at all, more like pulling at it while clipping or the scissors was blunt, he shaved part of my head and didnt go over it, plus he kept pushing my head harshly to move it, jarring my neck, I asked him not to jar my neck, but he kept doing it, I mentioned that he just ran over my hair once with razor and left loads sticking up, he didnt seem bothered. I just told him to stop, got another person to finsih the job, paid them, She did a good job, I think she was the manager,I actually tipped her but was still pissed at the place so I wont go back.

chiefbrody1974

chiefbrody1974 wrote: »

AHHHH finally, it was my "can I see the specials waiter?" comparison that got the point home. And it was you who brought up the english requirement issue. I accept your apolgies

Yeah...sure...