Attn All Irish MMA clubs - Blood Tests

IFS.NI

Hi Guys

Who would be interested in bringing in yearly blood tests for HIV and Hep if the cost was right for Irish fighters/ clubs?

Blood bourne diseases are a serious issue and there are services available now handily enough for testing.

What are your opinions?

Gorey_R

I'd be much much more supportive of this than poxy drug tests.

dasmoose

What richie said, will you be testing for PEDs? I'd have to ask wacky but I'm pretty sure the chances of anyone in Irish mma having HIV or hepatitis are very small.

Stephen_King

I'd think a yearly test for PED's would be a waste of time (unless the tests were random) given that they can be flushed from the system and\or cycled to avoid testing time. In order to catch people you'd have to test regularly and I'd think they'd be a bit pricey to foist on the average fighter over here. Might be an idea for title fights though, providing the promotion covers the cost.

I'd say the chances of anyone having the bug on the Irish scene would be pretty low but yea, if the tests were cheap there's no harm doing them.

Barry.Oglesby

The future is this:

A "book" or database that the fighter maintains himself and is responsible for himself. Every fight he gets checked and signed off by the fight doc before and after (particularly in the case of a KO or TKO) and once every year he gets a full physical including blood tests from his GP. This way

This is the future of MMA in Ireland, but it's the present for most other ring sports. I support any mechanism that heightens the safety of fighters.

IFS.NI

PED testing IMO is also important for fair play but way down the list compared to HIV and Hep testing. A few above have metioned the chances of people having an infection are slim, this may be true compared to London for example BUT don't kid yourselves guys there are plenty of folk positive in our own country - it's actually frightening the number.

Hate to sound all doom and gloom but God forbid we have to wait to hear someone has contracted an infection before something is done about it.

I recon for the Equilivent price of one night on the piss would cover a fighters test, yes they could get infected after a test but it is minimising chance and is reasonably practical.

This has nothing to do with my show by the way or people asking IF I will be testing for things - no, it's a question to the irish MMA community together and me speaking as a coach with fighters.

I have a contact in the Uk who has a lab where they send you a kit, you go to your doctor or nurse to get a blood sample and send it off, it's tested and you get your certiciate back within a week or so.

Then before fights people can provide the certificate before they are allowed to fight or matched.

Irish fighters are developing and are fighting all over Europe and beyond - not only that possibley getting drink and having unprotected sex in there local clubs week in week out.

I just think it's something for clubs to think about as it's a very real risk!

IFS.NI

Sorry I misread - yes chances of people on the Irish Mma scene having HIV may be slim but that's not to say something may never happen.

I just meant the number of Blood bourne infections are on the increase and with a sport were blood is the normal it should be addressed sooner rather than later.

Stephen_King

Just checked around there-the cost of a blood test in Dublin is around €30, but not sure if there's a GP charge on top of that. If there is it would work out around €80 or so.

Sid_Justice

There are more people juicing in Irish MMA then people who are HIV positive. If this was the pron industry I could see why someone would be championing a STI test before PED test.

Presumably you want people to get tested for HIV,Hepatitis B and C. If they want to fight on your promotion they must present a certificate saying the tested negative in the last 12 months. If they don't present with a negative cert (e.g. didn't get tested, or tested positive) they won't fight on your show?

1. There is no recorded incidence of a person becoming infected with HIV from a boxing or MMA fight.
2. The one recorded incidence of Hepatitis B transmission was due to someone reusing a bloody handkerchief.

ref: http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=6&ved=0CDoQFjAF&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ringsidephysicians.org%2Fresources%2FSR06-5-2-01.pdf&rct=j&q=hepatitis%20%20and%20boxing%20amateur&ei=0nekTd-6A4G2hAfL-9zLCQ&usg=AFQjCNHFWX_i4UHH-CBsTF1pxsazKjbzWA&sig2=nOVgcgBpjZIMBmYNk7dkqA&cad=rja

3. The Irish Amateur Boxing association do not test boxers for HIV/HBV.


Obviously Pro MMA =/ Amateur boxing.

I will accept that the bloodiest ground and pound does present a scenario where HBV transmission is possible.

Raze_them_all

I can honeslty say I got tested after every fight I had, always had my cert with me (which out of everyone only Mark Leonard looked to see ) It's only every cost me 20e to get the test done everytime.

I honestly can't see why people would want drug tests over it. I would rather get hammered by a juice head than beat someone with a contagious life long disease no matter how small the risk is.

IFS.NI

Raze_them_all wrote: »

I honestly can't see why people would want drug tests over it. I would rather get hammered by a juice head than beat someone with a contagious life long disease no matter how small the risk is.

Exactly.

Drugs testing is a seperate issue altogether but its way down the line to being feasable - Blood infections are alot more serious.

Getting yours done for 20 euro was very good - was that from your own doctor buddy as prices seem to be different for each person.

Raze_them_all

IFS.NI wrote: »

Exactly.

Drugs testing is a seperate issue altogether but its way down the line to being feasable - Blood infections are alot more serious.

Getting yours done for 20 euro was very good - was that from your own doctor buddy as prices seem to be different for each person.

Yup own doctor, Took the bloods and sent them off. Got the results back within two weeks. It probably helps that I don't live in a bigger city *like the majority of posters here.


* like it or not kilkenny is a city

IFS.NI

I think the test is about £30-£40 so its up to the doctor if they charge you for the blood sample although a nurse could do it no probs and not charge

IFS.NI

£30 or £40 per year for another string for fighter safety, well worth it in my opinion.

£30-£40 wouldnt even look at one nights drinking!!

medicsie

I would be in favour of this being brought in, the cost isn't that much as stated above.

However, along with the above conditions mentioned, there are also certain conditions that would be important for us to know about e.g Haemophilia.

It would need to be outlined to the physician what conditions need to be tested for, therefore it would be important for all organizers to agree on what conditions would be too dangerous to be allowed.

IFS.NI

medicsie wrote: »

I would be in favour of this being brought in, the cost isn't that much as stated above.

.

I have heard costs from 20 euro to £200! We did our pros and was alot more expensive but that was with a doctor who came down to the club.

Obviously the lower prices the better, do you have any links to companies who offer cheap tests or how fighters could go about getting it from their doctors for minimal costs or even free?

medicsie

I have heard costs from 20 euro to £200! We did our pros and was alot more expensive but that was with a doctor who came down to the club.

Obviously the lower prices the better, do you have any links to companies who offer cheap tests or how fighters could go about getting it from their doctors for minimal costs or even free?

I would not be in favour of contracting companies in to do it ''on the cheap'' though I understand where you are coming from in saying that.

The best bet is to have it done by the HSE, where all fighters would go through a HSE Doctor and have it done that way. For fighters who are availing of the medical card system I believe it would be a small charge or even free.

Not sure how it works for you folks up north but I would imagine the NHS GPs would have a similar system whereby they take your blood and send it off to the hospital lab.

IFS.NI

Occupational health consultants I meant as costs varied.

Barry.Oglesby

Hi all,

Whenever one of the lads asks me what he needs if he wants to fight I say "VHI". Not that you'll really need it, but more that you'd be wise to prepare for the worst. With respect to blood borne diseases such as HIV and Hep, there's obviously no amount of insurance that would cover that so I think that any precaution would be great.

WRT Sid justice's comparison with PEDs, I think something needs to be done about the rumour mill in that regard. I don't care who is using PEDs in Irish MMA and I don't think we need testing for them and here's the reasons why:
1) How many people who are actively fighting are using PEDs? I would say the answer is no greater than 20 and no less than 10.
2) How many people have either the expertise or access to the requisite expertise to use PEDs that would actually be genuinely beneficial to fighting in MMA in Ireland? I would say less than 10
3) How many people have both the technical ability, the physical condition and experience to really make PEDs count in their favour in a tight match? I would say less than 5

The role of PEDs in amateur sport is overstated. I must state my stance on the matter before saying this, I am against PEDs. There. However in my line of work, knowledge of PEDs is valuable even as a warning, and I guess I'm getting good at spotting people on certain pharmaceutical "products". What I will say from what I know is that the guys I see who are using PEDs are not anything a fighter with a reasonable gas tank and some technical know how needs to worry about. I also don't think that they impact on fighter safety, which is a greater concern to me than if some moron thinks what he injects in his arse is more important than learning how to box properly.

So yay to fighter safety and regular doctor checks and high medical and safety standards. Boo to deekheads taking dianabol and thinking it's the key to success.

Barry.Oglesby

Sorry I should add something:

I think blood tests are great, but I genuinely think that for any active fighter (~5/6 fights per year) then a once yearly MRI on their brain would be a far better safety precaution to fund if I wanted money to go to something. I think there's a far greater risk of trauma to the cerebellum than any blood borne disease.

Stephen_King

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

Sorry I should add something:

I think blood tests are great, but I genuinely think that for any active fighter (~5/6 fights per year) then a once yearly MRI on their brain would be a far better safety precaution to fund if I wanted money to go to something. I think there's a far greater risk of trauma to the cerebellum than any blood borne disease.

Good point. Certainly hasnt done Brian Foster any harm-

http://www.sherdog.com/news/news/Brian-Foster-Out-of-UFC-129-with-Brain-Hemorrhage-31562

cowzerp

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

Sorry I should add something:

I think blood tests are great, but I genuinely think that for any active fighter (~5/6 fights per year) then a once yearly MRI on their brain would be a far better safety precaution to fund if I wanted money to go to something. I think there's a far greater risk of trauma to the cerebellum than any blood borne disease.

MRI scans are expensive, can't see people availing of that to be honest, also with all tests are we talking all levels or just pros?

Barry.Oglesby

cowzerp wrote: »

MRI scans are expensive, can't see people availing of that to be honest, also with all tests are we talking all levels or just pros?

I was just spitballing. My point is that it would be top of my list above blood testing. I think a general once yearly physical exam would be a good step in the right direction.

Martin Walker

I know its been done to death over the last few years guys but im gonna say it again. You should set up a body of somesorts for MMA. You have all the best intentions and some very experienced people in all facets of the sport. It can be done. I do know that no matter what a GB says they have no power to stop promotions but in a way thats not what you need to do. I have a few ideas i belive could work to get things going in the right direction. Its not about stopping new promotions but more about guiding them in the right direction. The direction everyone wants to go in.

Marty

Sid_Justice

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

1) How many people who are actively fighting are using PEDs? I would say the answer is no greater than 20 and no less than 10.

How many people are actively fighting with active, contagious, serious business blood-borne viruses? I don't know, i would say the answer is no greater than 0.

Barry.Oglesby

Sid_Justice wrote: »

How many people are actively fighting with active, contagious, serious business blood-borne viruses? I don't know, i would say the answer is no greater than 0.

But blood borne diseases are potentially fatal. PEDs are just cheating. I don't think the comparison is valid. One is a fighter safety issue and the other is enforcement of rules.

Raze_them_all

Sid_Justice wrote: »

How many people are actively fighting with active, contagious, serious business blood-borne viruses? I don't know, i would say the answer is no greater than 0.

how many people have undiagnosed conditions till they get a blood test and get a nasty surprise? Didn't Alekander Emeilenko have a suspected case of hep b and had a fight pulled before?

It only takes one fighter to effectively ruin someones career and spread it, lads like Cathal and Norman have a real shot of getting into the ufc if they come back to ireland do you really think they'd care more if they fought someone who was on peds over someone who could give them a disease for life?
I doubt any fighter at any level would.

cowzerp

I cant stand drug cheats but it's not of major concern in Ireland and if it was feasible to pick 1 or the other i would side with the blood tests-i doubt there is 0 people carrying diseases in the sport, all it takes is riding 1 skank or 1 class girl who rode a skank etc... and there ya go.

in saying that the transmitting the disease would be very low chances even if a fighter had 1.

It's worth talking about and maybe we can work something out thats realistic and can learn from the discussion.

ps, say no to skanks!

Raze_them_all

cowzerp wrote: »

I cant stand drug cheats but it's not of major concern in Ireland and if it was feasible to pick 1 or the other i would side with the blood tests-i doubt there is 0 people carrying diseases in the sport, all it takes is riding 1 skank or 1 class girl who rode a skank etc... and there ya go.

in saying that the transmitting the disease would be very low chances even if a fighter had 1.

It's worth talking about and maybe we can work something out thats realistic and can learn from the discussion.

ps, say no to skanks!

Essentail kit for anybody especially fighters!

Very good point raised by paul though, just like a skank ya never know where your opponent has been (excluding all ye married folk of course)

Sid_Justice

cowzerp wrote: »

ps, say no to skanks!

I would suggest the lads with loads of tattoos are just as likely to have infections as promiscuous lads.

cowzerp

Sid_Justice wrote: »

I would suggest the lads with loads of tattoos are just as likely to have infections as promiscuous lads.

Don't agree but either way, Its impossible to do MMA without a tatoo so more reason for blood tests over drug ones..