Ketosis - having trouble getting "into it"

qvsr46ofgc792k

Can someone please tell me if I am doing everything correctly?

Height 5'10"
weight 76kg (69.68 inch)
Gym 3 days a week


MEAL 1
2 unsmoked back rashers (bacon) 7.86g / 10.5g
2 Large Eggs 10g / 12.6g
Tea spoon butter 6g

MEAL 2
70g Stewing beef 13.5g / 19.05g
25g Feta Cheese 4.78g / 4.12g
1 Tablespoon olive Oil 15g

MEAL 3
2 Pork Chops 13.2g / 38.4g
32g Cottage cheese 1.6g / 3.6g 1g
1 tablespoon olive oil 15g

MEAL 4
1 scoop protein 1.8g / 23.9g / 1.1g
1 tablespoon peanut butter 7.4g / 4.7g / 1.9g
1 tablespoon olive oil 15g
200ml Milk 7g / 6.6g / 9.8g

MEAL 5
1 Tablepoon Mayo 11g
50g Tuna 12.5g


PREWORKOUT
NO-XPLODE 7g carbs

POSTWORKOUT
Optimum Nutrition Whey 1.8g / 23.9g / 1.1g



Total Cals 1800
FAT 128.9g
PROTEIN 133g
CARBS 22.5g

metamorphosis

How long have you been at this diet? You should be in ketosis on that alright without working out even. How do you know you're not in ketosis? Have you tested (with something like ketostix)?

EileenG

On that diet, you can't avoid ketosis. My suggestion is to throw in more green veg. You can add plenty of celery and spinach and mushrooms to those meals without significantly increasing carbs.

Is meal 4 post workout? If so, drop the oil and pb, your PWO meal should be a protein/carb combo. Keep the fats for other meals.

dartstothesea

Can't you still eat things that will stop/prevent ketosis even without eating too many grams of carbs? Like if you just ate 5g of sugar or something it'd take you out, no?
Just mentioning it in case it could be something like that.

You'll do well from avoiding carbs anyway but yeah check some ketostix.

EileenG

5g of sugar wouldn't take you out of ketosis, it would take more than that.

qvsr46ofgc792k

sorry for the late reply.

I started this last tuesday(5th apr) with the goal of being in ketosis by the weekend, which it didnt happen.

On the weekend i still pretty much ate the same regards a few sweets and an indian and then back to the diet on monday.
Im checking for ketosis with the stix and as of 5 mins ago and all throughout last week the most its showing on the graph is just a trace of ketosis.

any ideas?

qvsr46ofgc792k

oh and meal 4 is in the evening time or about an hour before bed. I alter meal 4 and 5 depending on what I am peckish for!

My post work out is always a protein shake immeadiately.

EileenG

Any trace of pink is ketosis. Have you noticed any drop of weight? Typically, you spend a day pissing like a race horse as you go into ketosis, followed by a drop of a few pounds as the water weight disappears.

Ketostix measure the excess ketones in your urine, over a certain concentration. If you drink a lot of water, your urine may be too dilute to register. Or if you use the ketones during exercise, they may never get to your urine.

If in doubt, spend a couple of days just eating eggs, fish, meat, green veg, and leave out all the other stuff.

qvsr46ofgc792k

No weight loss or a day pissing like a race, well not that I noticed the latter!
But I drink allot of water anyway.

I might just give that option a try, but where will I be getting my fat from?

EileenG

Eggs, mackerel, salmon, rib steak, lamb chops, salads with an olive oil dressing.

Twenty10

You could follow the Atkins Fat Fast for two days, google it. I did it when I wasn't sure if I was in Ketosis. Two days of eating small meals of Cream cheese and macadamia nuts. I added in celery sticks with the cream cheese. Five small meals for two days alternating between the cc and the nuts. I was sick of both food items by the end of two ays but it certainly worked getting me into Ketosis.

MiniSquish

Where can you buy those sticks to check for Ketosis?

qvsr46ofgc792k

MiniSquish wrote: »

Where can you buy those sticks to check for Ketosis?

In any chemist (you'll have to ask for them) they cost about €8 for a pack of 50

qvsr46ofgc792k

Twenty10 wrote: »

You could follow the Atkins Fat Fast for two days, google it. I did it when I wasn't sure if I was in Ketosis. Two days of eating small meals of Cream cheese and macadamia nuts. I added in celery sticks with the cream cheese. Five small meals for two days alternating between the cc and the nuts. I was sick of both food items by the end of two ays but it certainly worked getting me into Ketosis.

then did you follow a regular ketosis plan?

MiniSquish

Thanks. Will get them next time I am in the chemist!

Twenty10

androl, I had done the first two weeks of Atkins induction and on week three wasn't sure if I was in Ketosis. So then did the fat fast for two days and from that point on followed a low carb diet. I'm almost one year down the line now and wouldn't change my lc eating habits.

qvsr46ofgc792k

I was informed that NO-XPLODE taking that on an empty stomach would kick most people out of keto?
Would you know if that is true?

http://www.bsnonline.net/details/noxplode.html

The next question then is what affect does getting kicked out of keto on a daily basis have on fat adaptation?

Its just that I go the gym first thing in the morning and I rely on this suppliment to give me the energy I need.

qvsr46ofgc792k

Got a great reply there on PM:

No, it would have no effect on ketosis. Actually the phrase "kicked out of ketosis" is not really accurate, since it's possible for your body to be in ketosis and burning fat, while also burning smaller amounts of carbs as well. It's not either/or.

If this is what you need to do a good workout, then go for it.

Ketosis is not an end in itself, it's a side-effect which makes it easy to stick to a good diet. But if your calories are out of line or you are not lifting hard, no amount of ketosis will get you ripped.

I'm inclined to think that the human body evolved to be frequently in ketosis, it was probably the default state for our hunter-gatherer ancestors. But they would have eaten carbs when they became available, and would have coped perfectly well with that. Your body will adjust to whatever you do.

qvsr46ofgc792k

well just a quick update...

I have been having weird dreams the past week and a scary ass very realistic nightmare that kept me awake for ages last night and so I googled and found that many people on a low carb diet have experienced this, so I must be there, and plus all the helpful replies I have got. Also my urine stinks.

But the dreams seriously WTF, wont want the nightmares continuning that creeped the **** out of me.

qvsr46ofgc792k

EileenG wrote: »

Eggs, mackerel, salmon, rib steak, lamb chops, salads with an olive oil dressing.

Is that not a lot more protein then fat?

EileenG

No, that's pretty much a balance of protein and fat. Use the olive oil dressing on the salad to balance anything that seems a bit high in protein.

Mellor

How long (in days) would it take to get into keto for a person who has been on a pretty balenaced diet (equalish carbs and protein, slightly lower fats)

EileenG

Three to five days the first time you do it, less if you are an athlete or have done ketosis before. The first time, you'll feel pretty crap, your body thinks you are starving and it takes a while to adjust to not having an endless supply of sugar to burn. It's never as bad after that.

A lot of bodybuilders do keto six days a week, and a high carb refeed on the seventh day. They'll typically get back to ketosis in one to two days.

kevkelly90

Glad I found this thread, even created a profile to ask my question. I have been having the same issues as androl, well sort of. I have been trying to keep to a ketosis diet for the last 2 months but the idea of counting calories all the time gets a bit frustraiting and I never last.

How important is it to meassure my food intake?
The only carbs I eat is from Veg.
Is peanut butter (natural) bad for me?

can anybody even come up with the perfect meal plan similar to androl at the start?

EileenG

Unless you are trying to cut, then measuring food intake is not important. I'm more inclined to eat to appetite, and just not eat until you are hungry.

Natural peanut butter is good for filling gaps. Don't make it the basis of a meal.

I reckon a good basic keto day might be: Mushroom and herb omlette for breakfast, fish and big green salad with olive oil dressing for lunch, steak or chicken and more veg for dinner. Whey shake after gym workout, raw nuts as snacks.

qvsr46ofgc792k

Altered Diet: Week 2

Height 5'10"
weight 76kg (69.68 inch)
Gym 3 days a week


MEAL 1
2 Large Eggs
2 Large Egg Whites
Salmon and Crab Paste (9.8g Fat / 11.6g Pro)
Olive Oil 10g

MEAL 2
2 Lamb Chops
beetroot (2 small slices)
feta cheese
Olive Oil 10g
Spinach / Water Crest / Rocket

MEAL 3
Tin of Sardines in Brine
22 Almonds

MEAL 4
RIb Steak
Spinach

MEAL 5
Protein Shake w/peanut butter and soya milk


PREWORKOUT
Jack3d - 0 carbs

POSTWORKOUT
Reflex Whey 1.5g car/ 20g pro/ 1.1g fat



Is that better Eileen?

EileenG

Looks good. Do you get hungry six times a day, or just feel that's the number of meals you should be eating?

qvsr46ofgc792k

no thats the ammount I think I should be having.
Why is it too much?

My goal by the way is to cut fat but keep muscle.

EileenG

Six meals a day makes perfect sense if you are a bodybuilder who is bulking, and can't physically shovel in enough food in three meals. Or if you are eat a very high sugar diet, and need frequent small meals to keep your blood sugar level.

Neither applies to you, so it would make more sense to eat when you are hungry, rather than every three hours, and get used to listening to your body. Not to mention, far less time in the kitchen. One problem with keto is that the meals are generally best prepared or cooked fresh, it's hard to do good keto snacks. If you reduce the number of meals, that's less of an issue.

qvsr46ofgc792k

EileenG wrote: »

Six meals a day makes perfect sense if you are a bodybuilder who is bulking, and can't physically shovel in enough food in three meals. Or if you are eat a very high sugar diet, and need frequent small meals to keep your blood sugar level.

Neither applies to you, so it would make more sense to eat when you are hungry, rather than every three hours, and get used to listening to your body. Not to mention, far less time in the kitchen. One problem with keto is that the meals are generally best prepared or cooked fresh, it's hard to do good keto snacks. If you reduce the number of meals, that's less of an issue.

Thats great to know, thanks for telling me.
I was under the impression thats what I needed to do, but knowing I dont certainly will make things a lot easier now.

kevkelly90

I was just looking at both of androl food plan and it seems like there is a lot of saturated fats in it, surely that cant be good?

Also when you are counting calories and fat/protein/carbs content do you count them before or after they are cooked and what is the best way to get an accurate meassure. For example if you look on a pack it only gives you the raw readings.

Im very confused.

EileenG

Saturated fats are not a problem. It's a myth that saturated fats cause heart disease, one which is lovingly repeated by the makers of margarine and yogurt drinks. Transfats are the evil ones which clog arteries.

Either count the raw food, weigh out X grams of whatever meat it is, calcalate the calories and add any extra fat used in cooking. Or cook and weigh, then look up the cals for the cooked version. Tesco often gives the nutritional values per cooked portion for its meat.

Ice.

EileenG wrote: »

Saturated fats are not a problem. It's a myth that saturated fats cause heart disease, one which is lovingly repeated by the makers of margarine and yogurt drinks.

It's a myth that saturated fats are not a problem, one which is lovingly repeated by the meat & dairy industries and their proxies.

EileenG wrote: »

Transfats are the evil ones which clog arteries.

You better strike ruminants off your consumption list then.

Davei141

Ice. wrote: »

It's a myth that saturated fats are not a problem, one which is lovingly repeated by the meat & dairy industries and their proxies.

You better strike ruminants off your consumption list then.

Nobody cares about your vegan bullshit.

Ice.

Davei141 wrote: »

Nobody cares about your vegan bullshit.

I guess people like to hear good things about their bad habits..

Davei141

Preach it.

Ice.

Davei141 wrote: »

Preach it.

What is this supposed to mean?

Davei141

It means your problem is with people who don't subscribe to veganism and has nothing to do with foods being healthy or unhealthy.

Ice.

Davei141 wrote: »

It means your problem is with people who don't subscribe to veganism and has nothing to do with foods being healthy or unhealthy.

I don't have a problem with people who don't "subscribe to veganism". What I do have a problem with is misinformation that is propagated and regurgitated ad infinitum. I won't be a cheerleader for the "saturated animal fat is good" brigade. That kind of information is either desperately ignorant or deliberately irresponsible.

Mellor

Nobody said it was good, they said it wasn't bad.
Saturated fats are animal based.
A coconut is a decent proportion of saturated fat

EileenG

EileenG wrote: »

Saturated fats are not a problem. It's a myth that saturated fats cause heart disease, one which is lovingly repeated by the makers of margarine and yogurt drinks. Transfats are the evil ones which clog arteries.

Really? I thought it was all about the packing efficiency of the fatty acid chains, in which case saturated fats and trans fats are equal. Is it the double bond?

This is the first time I've heard anything like that, I'm really confused.

qvsr46ofgc792k

Well anyway back to the topic:

Can too much protein stop you from getting into ketosis?

EileenG

Lilah Silly Slogan wrote: »

Well anyway back to the topic:

Can too much protein stop you from getting into ketosis?

Yes, since in large qualities it can be broken down into glucose, but this is more of a protein with supplemental protein powders like whey than with real food.

EileenG

true-or-false wrote: »

Really? I thought it was all about the packing efficiency of the fatty acid chains, in which case saturated fats and trans fats are equal. Is it the double bond?

This is the first time I've heard anything like that, I'm really confused.

The first time you've heard that transfats are evil?

EileenG

EileenG wrote: »

The first time you've heard that transfats are evil?

Nope. But I'm due to sit a metabolism exam next week and this is the first time I've heard there's a difference between transfats and saturated fats. You're usually the voice of truth on these things so I assumed you know something I don't. Is it the double bond?

OP, sorry bout being off-topic, if this isn't cleared up easily I'll start a fresh thread for it, I don't mean to hi-jack.

EileenG

Apart from a few naturally occurring transfats like CLA, transfats are usually cheap vegetable oils which have been chemically processed to make them solid at room temperature and which your body can't handle. The human body has thousands of years of experience of digesting sat fats, but not transfats. For a long time, people doing studies tended to lump sat fats and trans fat in together, and so a steak with 20g of sat fat was counted in the same category as fries with 20g of highly processed and overheated transfats.

whiteonion

I don't excersise so I wonder is it possible for a person with my lifestyle to stay in ketosis on 40-50 grams of carbohydrates a day. I have been a bit to liberal with the carbs latley. How low do I need to go to stay in ketosis?

EileenG

whiteonion wrote: »

I don't excersise so I wonder is it possible for a person with my lifestyle to stay in ketosis on 40-50 grams of carbohydrates a day. I have been a bit to liberal with the carbs latley. How low do I need to go to stay in ketosis?

Lower the carbs to get into ketosis, then add a few more gradually to find what level will keep you in ketosis. This varies from person to person, there is no set amount.

Mellor

hows does this lok, going to give it a shot next week

Breakfast: Bacon and eggs
Snack: Protein shake
Lunch: chicken or tuna with capsicum, mushrooms, chilli
Pre-gym Protein shake
Post gym milk or similar drink
dinner: chicken/steak with brocolli or similar
snack: nuts

Amtmann

EileenG wrote: »

The first time, you'll feel pretty crap, your body thinks you are starving and it takes a while to adjust to not having an endless supply of sugar to burn. It's never as bad after that.

Crap as in feeling light headed and weakish? I had a bout of that last week and I think now it must be because I entered ketosis. Eating very few carbs (I haven't quantified them, but between 100 and 70g I would say, possibly less)..

EileenG

Sounds about right. Are you feeling normal again?