China the next superpower?

CommuterIE

What's your view on this... a communist state being the next superpower? Given that China has an attrocious human rights record... or will the USA retain the title? And should they?

Coriolanus

Yeah, because the last few super powers have all been real good in the human rights department?

CommuterIE

Nevore wrote: »

Yeah, because the last few super powers have all been real good in the human rights department?

To what superpowers do you refer? Last time I checked it was Russia and the States

El Weirdo

Next?

Also: Great bunch of lads.

Capt'n Midnight

US military have killed about 10 million foreign civilians since the end of WWII. *

Chinese are winning hearts and minds in Africa

Chinese are back on track to be the worlds manufacturing giant, a role they've held for most of the last two thousand years - only in the last three hundred years while China had civil wars did the Westerners surpass Chinese output.


*US military involvement has resulted in 10 million deaths since the end of WWII
4.0 Vietnam (inc Cambodia / Laos)
3.0 Korea
1.6 Cambodia under the Khymer Rouge
1.0 Iraq if you include the excess deaths due to pre war sanctions etc.

Panama , Grenada, Somalia it's a long list

Spunge

Aren't they already a superpower ?

Oranage2

CommuterIE wrote: »

What's your view on this... a communist state being the next superpower? Given that China has an attrocious human rights record... or will the USA retain the title? And should they?

Go back to school son you clearly dont have a clue!!!

China are a superpower!

China will over take US in 15 years economically if the continuely grow at the rate they are *which is not likely!

US have their own human rights issues not less than 50 years ago black people were hung from trees!



EDIT * the rate of growth currently is unlikely for the next 15 years though china are likely to overtake US by 2030

Aren't they kind of a superpower already, they own the USA pretty much and they're busy buying up raw materials everywhere. Taking over the world!

CommuterIE

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

US military have killed about 10 million foreign civilians since the end of WWII.

Chinese are winning hearts and minds in Africa

Chinese are back on track to be the worlds manufacturing giant, a role they've held for most of the last two thousand years - only in the last three hundred years while China had civil wars did the Westerners surpass Chinese output.

Presumably you have a source for this?

krudler

This wan ton rate of growth is ridiculous

Smartly Dressed

They're about as communist as Eamon Gilmore!

India will overtake everyone!

Coriolanus

CommuterIE wrote: »

To what superpowers do you refer? Last time I checked it was Russia and the States

Neither of which have great track records. Going back before them you have arguably, Britain, France, Spain, Portugal, Netherlands, Ottoman Empire, Hapsburg Empire etc etc.
While we're brutal enough to our neighbours, when you put people in positions of authority over foreigners, especially when abroad, the whole idea of human decency seems to go out the window.
Take a look at the recent revelations about British complicity in the Mau Mau semi-genocide in the 50s for an example outside of the US and USSR.

CommuterIE

Oranage2 wrote: »

Go back to school son you clearly dont have a clue!!!

China are a superpower!

China will over take US in 15 years economically if the continuely grow at the rate they are which is not likely!

US have their own human rights issues not less than 50 years ago black people were hung from trees!

I don't think you can compare the US military to absolute nutjobs who hung blacks in the 50's... good try though

Biggins

CommuterIE wrote: »

What's your view on this... a communist state being the next superpower? Given that China has an attrocious human rights record... or will the USA retain the title? And should they?

I have no doubt that they will over take the USA.
Now if they economy will last as good as it is - thats another question.

I would certainly ask others to not "put all their eggs in one basket" with China on the whole.
We have been at close quarters what that does to an economy.

..But yes, China will overtake the USA.
Joss Whedon had it right!

Absurdum

they're all inferior to the Mega Powers of Hulk Hogan and Macho Man Randy Savage

Red Hand

Smartly Dressed wrote: »

They're about as communist as Eamon Gilmore!

India will overtake everyone!

My money's on Liechtenstein. Come on baby, do it for old Gil!

CommuterIE

Biggins wrote: »

I have no doubt that they will ove take the USA.
Now if they economy will last as good as it is - thats another question.

I would certainly ask others to not "put all their eggs in one basket" with China on the whole.
We have been at close quarters what that does to an economy.

..But yes, China will overtake the USA.
Joss Whedon had it right!

The question is should they be a superpower... the USA has always been a beacon of freedom, China unfortunately not..

CommuterIE

CommuterIE wrote: »

The question is should they be a superpower... the USA has always been a beacon of freedom, China unfortunately not..

You what

Pride Fighter

CommuterIE wrote: »

Presumably you have a source for this?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_War 2.5-3million

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_War 1-2 million

There is half of it anyway. That does not count U.S puppets like Pinochet, Batista and Noriega slaughtering their own people or Iraq and Afghanistan.

10 million could even be a conservative estimate.

Absurdum

bluewolf wrote: »

You what

You essay you essay

Turtyturd

Absurdum wrote: »

they're all inferior to the Mega Powers of Hulk Hogan and Macho Man Randy Savage

But try find a Chinese woman called Elizabeth to be their downfal.

As has been said China will over take America...India will probably overtake China.

Coriolanus

Oranage2 wrote: »

Go back to school son you clearly dont have a clue!!!

China are a superpower!

China will over take US in 15 years economically if the continuely grow at the rate they are *which is not likely!

US have their own human rights issues not less than 50 years ago black people were hung from trees!



EDIT * the rate of growth currently is unlikely for the next 15 years though china are likely to overtake US by 2030

There's gitmo and abu ghraib, you don't even need to go back that far to find human rights abuses by the US. Not bashing them, they just fall into the general paradigm of political and military powers.

Turtyturd

CommuterIE wrote: »

The question is should they be a superpower... the USA has always been a beacon of freedom, China unfortunately not..

Freedom???....there is a reason that statue is called the statue of Liberty instead of the statue of Freedom.

CommuterIE

bluewolf wrote: »

You what

Yep, it always has been... thats why those ****s in airplanes targeted it... they don't like or agree with the concept of freedom...

Oranage2

CommuterIE wrote: »

The question is should they be a superpower... the USA has always been a beacon of freedom, China unfortunately not..

USA home of slavery is the beacon for freedom?
Sure china freed tibet from their religious overlords - thats freedom!!!

Latchy

The Chinese already have their eyes on building nukes in Offaly ....

Seriously though if they look after their overworked population which doesn't have the same lifestyles as say your average American middle class then there is nothing to say they wont stay as a superpower for a long time . Some news articles would suggest that the Chinese 'live to work ' rather then ' work to live ' but at what price .?

Coriolanus

always a beacon of freedom though? Come on. I love the US, and I usually end up defending it in the usual fúckwit threads, but you're ignoring a couple of small things, slavery amongst them.

Pauleta

Anyone else notice that China's rise to being a super power coincided with their embracement of capitalism

CommuterIE

Nevore wrote: »

always a beacon of freedom though? Come on. I love the US, and I usually end up defending it in the usual fúckwit threads, but you're ignoring a couple of small things, slavery amongst them.

The USA was founded on the principle that slavery is wrong, that's what the Civil War was over!!

Tech3

Economically China is becoming the worlds superpower. They have everyone in their back pocket!

Their central bank has deposit rates at 3% and loan rates near 6% for their own citizens ffs. The billions we would have had if we adopted the same attitude during the 90's and early noughties.

Biggins

CommuterIE wrote: »

The question is should they be a superpower... the USA has always been a beacon of freedom, China unfortunately not..

Should they be one? Yes, for the efforts they have put in to get there.
If those efforts meant stomping on individual rights - well they should be held accountable for that too.
Sadly though (as we all know) capitalism wins over "doing the right thing" most times.

Coriolanus

CommuterIE wrote: »

The USA was founded on the principle that slavery is wrong, that's what the Civil War was over!!

Wow. Go read some books on the Civil War, it was a lot more complicated than that.

CommuterIE

Nevore wrote: »

Wow. Go read some books on the Civil War, it was a lot more complicated than that.

Indeed, but that is one of of fundamental points of the civil war... the Southern states despised the fact that no slaves were allowed

pragmatic1

Its not a case of China is going to be the next superpower. China already is a superpower.

El Weirdo

CommuterIE wrote: »

Yep, it always has been... thats why those ****s in airplanes targeted it... they don't like or agree with the concept of freedom...

George?

Coriolanus

CommuterIE wrote: »

Indeed, but that is one of of fundamental points of the civil war... the Southern states despised the fact that no slaves were allowed

They tried to secede and the north invaded.

Anyway, that's beside the point. The US was founded as a racist institution. The Constitution originally declared that a black man was only worth two thirds of a white man. It wasn't for years after the Declaration of Independence that the Civil War and associated tensions over slavery came to the boil, and arguably, that was as much an economic matter of the north wishing to ban slavery in the north so as to cripple the economy of the south in favour of the industrialised north.

BUT. Even if we concede the point (which I'm not, but just to get past the slavery issue), it's hardly the only abuse of human rights that one could point to in Americas past. They've propped up dictators everywhere from SA to Central Asia and all points in between.

Oranage2

Commuter.ie you're either a troll or just clueless,

China and USA arent too dissimilar, both have atrocious human rights records, USA however did A-bomb japan and USA does invade any country that doesnt want to sell oil in petrodollars as well as their not so secretive torture policy plus a lot lot more -

China is buying up land in africa now and raping Africa of it's resources keeping them poor, though it's the exact same thing europe did in the 'race for africa' in the late 1890s.


the only real difference is one of em isn't white!

Latchy

Domo230 wrote: »

Id rather the states running the show than China.

That's because as westeners ( assuming your a westener ) post world war two and living with capitalism , this is the way of western goverment and democracy of the last 55 odd years as we know it .

Angron

All hail our soon to be Chinese overlords :pac:

Ruen

Economically China seems to have a lot of momentum and it looks like it will overtake the US eventually having already taken over from Japan as the 2nd largest economy. Militarily it has a long way to go before challenging the US for that status and I don't think the US will ever be insignificant in those stakes. I think there will be some superpowersharing in the future

CommuterIE

Oranage2 wrote: »

Commuter.ie you're either a troll or just clueless,
USA however did A-bomb japan

That was necessary, to prevent hundreds of thousands of American troops being killed... I for one fully supported that action... maybe you are a troll?

Oranage2

CommuterIE wrote: »

That was necessary, to prevent hundreds of thousands of American troops being killed... I for one fully supported that action... maybe you are a troll?

Still though you go on about China's human right record, And usa kill 200,000 civilians by A-Bomb - my point is they're no angels -


What is even the point of this thread - the fact that china are a super power shows that you havent a clue!!!

Coriolanus

CommuterIE wrote: »

That was necessary, to prevent hundreds of thousands of American troops being killed... I for one fully supported that action... maybe you are a troll?

It was a deliberate targetting of a civilian population. That's pretty much the most explicit breach of human rights you can get.

I'm not sure how you render it logical.

El Weirdo

CommuterIE wrote: »

That was necessary, to prevent hundreds of thousands of American troops being killed... I for one fully supported that action... maybe you are a troll?

It's great to see our senior citizens embracing modern technology.

wing1004

CommuterIE wrote: »

That was necessary, to prevent hundreds of thousands of American troops being killed... I for one fully supported that action... maybe you are a troll?

You must be american to even think that its ok to nuke civilians, that was a cowardly attack, like yourself.

Capt'n Midnight

CommuterIE wrote: »

Presumably you have a source for this?

Knew I should have said 10 million and a baby squirrel.

jay93

Domo230 wrote: »

Id rather the states running the show than China.

I would prefer china than the states to be honest without them we would all be ****3d !!With the ammount of products that are made in china altough they are paid little for making so much products for us all,
Which is the only part i disagree on !!

El Weirdo

jay93 wrote: »

I would prefer china than the states to be honest without them we would all be ****3d !!With the ammount of products that are made in china altough they are paid little for making so much products for us all,
Which is the only part i disagree on !!

Great post. I suggest you edit it and make it bold so that no one misses... oh...

nyarlothothep

Well the US has an appalling human rights record, even against its own people eg CIA human experimentation, look it up on wiki. However in general people still have the right to criticize their government and not dissapear. The important distinction is that America has semi functioning democratic institutions whereas the Chinese regime openly rejects the very concept of liberty under the pretense of maintaining a "harmonious" society. So basically anyone hoping for a more enlightened superpower can think again, the age of a culture=/= Solomonic wisdom.

Spunge

At least the United States has freedom of speech, and china's human rights record is atrocious.

pragmatic1

The only superpower that would be better than the US would be an even more integrated EU. Not going to happen though.