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China the next superpower?

CommuterIE

What's your view on this... a communist state being the next superpower? Given that China has an attrocious human rights record... or will the USA retain the title? And should they?

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Coriolanus

CommuterIE wrote: »

The USA was founded on the principle that slavery is wrong, that's what the Civil War was over!!

Wow. Go read some books on the Civil War, it was a lot more complicated than that.

CommuterIE

Nevore wrote: »

Wow. Go read some books on the Civil War, it was a lot more complicated than that.

Indeed, but that is one of of fundamental points of the civil war... the Southern states despised the fact that no slaves were allowed

pragmatic1

Its not a case of China is going to be the next superpower. China already is a superpower.

El Weirdo

CommuterIE wrote: »

Yep, it always has been... thats why those ****s in airplanes targeted it... they don't like or agree with the concept of freedom...

George?

Coriolanus

CommuterIE wrote: »

Indeed, but that is one of of fundamental points of the civil war... the Southern states despised the fact that no slaves were allowed

They tried to secede and the north invaded.

Anyway, that's beside the point. The US was founded as a racist institution. The Constitution originally declared that a black man was only worth two thirds of a white man. It wasn't for years after the Declaration of Independence that the Civil War and associated tensions over slavery came to the boil, and arguably, that was as much an economic matter of the north wishing to ban slavery in the north so as to cripple the economy of the south in favour of the industrialised north.

BUT. Even if we concede the point (which I'm not, but just to get past the slavery issue), it's hardly the only abuse of human rights that one could point to in Americas past. They've propped up dictators everywhere from SA to Central Asia and all points in between.

Oranage2

Commuter.ie you're either a troll or just clueless,

China and USA arent too dissimilar, both have atrocious human rights records, USA however did A-bomb japan and USA does invade any country that doesnt want to sell oil in petrodollars as well as their not so secretive torture policy plus a lot lot more -

China is buying up land in africa now and raping Africa of it's resources keeping them poor, though it's the exact same thing europe did in the 'race for africa' in the late 1890s.

the only real difference is one of em isn't white!

Latchy

Domo230 wrote: »

Id rather the states running the show than China.

That's because as westeners ( assuming your a westener ) post world war two and living with capitalism , this is the way of western goverment and democracy of the last 55 odd years as we know it .

Angron

All hail our soon to be Chinese overlords :pac:

Ruen

Economically China seems to have a lot of momentum and it looks like it will overtake the US eventually having already taken over from Japan as the 2nd largest economy. Militarily it has a long way to go before challenging the US for that status and I don't think the US will ever be insignificant in those stakes. I think there will be some superpowersharing in the future

CommuterIE

Oranage2 wrote: »

Commuter.ie you're either a troll or just clueless,
USA however did A-bomb japan

That was necessary, to prevent hundreds of thousands of American troops being killed... I for one fully supported that action... maybe you are a troll?

Oranage2

CommuterIE wrote: »

That was necessary, to prevent hundreds of thousands of American troops being killed... I for one fully supported that action... maybe you are a troll?

Still though you go on about China's human right record, And usa kill 200,000 civilians by A-Bomb - my point is they're no angels -

What is even the point of this thread - the fact that china are a super power shows that you havent a clue!!!

Coriolanus

CommuterIE wrote: »

That was necessary, to prevent hundreds of thousands of American troops being killed... I for one fully supported that action... maybe you are a troll?

It was a deliberate targetting of a civilian population. That's pretty much the most explicit breach of human rights you can get.

I'm not sure how you render it logical.

El Weirdo

CommuterIE wrote: »

That was necessary, to prevent hundreds of thousands of American troops being killed... I for one fully supported that action... maybe you are a troll?

It's great to see our senior citizens embracing modern technology.

wing1004

CommuterIE wrote: »

That was necessary, to prevent hundreds of thousands of American troops being killed... I for one fully supported that action... maybe you are a troll?

You must be american to even think that its ok to nuke civilians, that was a cowardly attack, like yourself.

Capt'n Midnight

CommuterIE wrote: »

Presumably you have a source for this?

Knew I should have said 10 million and a baby squirrel.

jay93

Domo230 wrote: »

Id rather the states running the show than China.

I would prefer china than the states to be honest without them we would all be ****3d !!With the ammount of products that are made in china altough they are paid little for making so much products for us all,
Which is the only part i disagree on !!

El Weirdo

jay93 wrote: »

I would prefer china than the states to be honest without them we would all be ****3d !!With the ammount of products that are made in china altough they are paid little for making so much products for us all,
Which is the only part i disagree on !!

Great post. I suggest you edit it and make it bold so that no one misses... oh...

nyarlothothep

Well the US has an appalling human rights record, even against its own people eg CIA human experimentation, look it up on wiki. However in general people still have the right to criticize their government and not dissapear. The important distinction is that America has semi functioning democratic institutions whereas the Chinese regime openly rejects the very concept of liberty under the pretense of maintaining a "harmonious" society. So basically anyone hoping for a more enlightened superpower can think again, the age of a culture=/= Solomonic wisdom.

Spunge

At least the United States has freedom of speech, and china's human rights record is atrocious.

pragmatic1

The only superpower that would be better than the US would be an even more integrated EU. Not going to happen though.

jesus_thats_gre

Pride Fighter wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_War 2.5-3million

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_War 1-2 million

There is half of it anyway. That does not count U.S puppets like Pinochet, Batista and Noriega slaughtering their own people or Iraq and Afghanistan.

10 million could even be a conservative estimate.

4 to 5 million civilians or 4 to 5 million in total during those wars?

Considering that the claim was 10 million civilians, it is an important distinction.

whiteonion

CommuterIE wrote: »

What's your view on this... a communist state being the next superpower? Given that China has an attrocious human rights record... or will the USA retain the title? And should they?

China, a communist state? Don't make me laugh.
China is a turbo-capitalist state.

There is very little social welfare and the gap between rich and poor are huge. China is more capitalist than America.

Capt'n Midnight

Ruen wrote: »

Economically China seems to have a lot of momentum and it looks like it will overtake the US eventually having already taken over from Japan as the 2nd largest economy. Militarily it has a long way to go before challenging the US for that status and I don't think the US will ever be insignificant in those stakes. I think there will be some superpowersharing in the future

US military can win the war, bu they arent so good at winning the peace.

Like I said earlier they have been winning hearts and minds in Africa big time. Because they get things done.

The EU sorta tries to get client states to give their citizens the same rights as back in the EU (withholding aid / trade for breaches in agreements on human rights would be a good start)
The US doesn't really care how it's client states treat their citizens - Saddam was gassing Kurds or whatever during the Iran-Iraq war.
With China the client states probably don't treat their citizens much worse than the Chinese do theirs.

SafeSurfer

CommuterIE wrote: »

The USA was founded on the principle that slavery is wrong, that's what the Civil War was over!!

The USA was not founded on the principle that slavery is wrong. The USA was founded on the principle that taxation without representation was wrong. One third of the signatories of the declaration of independence were slave owners including its main author Thomas Jefferson.

Capt'n Midnight

CommuterIE wrote: »

That was necessary, to prevent hundreds of thousands of American troops being killed... I for one fully supported that action... maybe you are a troll?

still not sure on that , the Soviets steamet throught Manchuria and the only reason South Korea exists is because the Japanese surrendered so soon.

If the purpose of the Abomb was anything other than to gather statistics on it's effecto on humans then a military target would have been chosen (such as the remaining japanese naval units) or a forest

Jcarroll07

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Chinese are winning hearts and minds in Africa

Winning harts and minds. Look what they did and are doing in sudan. They are supporting the dictatorship through the UN. Ignoring the weapon embargo which came into effect in 2005. And as a result chines weapons tanks planes and small arms are being used by the sudan government in dafur. Why do china do this. Because of oil. Sudan is estimated to have 5 billion barrels in oil reserves and 80% of the oil sudan sell goes to china. Using the weapons they got from china Sudanese government has killed tens of thousands and displaced millions from the darfur region.

InTheTrees

wing1004 wrote: »

You must be american to even think that its ok to nuke civilians, that was a cowardly attack, like yourself.

:mad:

War is hell. Read some History and tell us what the alternative would have been?

And considering the genocide the japanese inflicted on the Chinese during ww2, they werent ready to play by any rules of decency.

InTheTrees

Jcarroll07 wrote: »

Winning harts and minds. Look what they did and are doing in sudan. They are supporting the dictatorship through the UN. Ignoring the weapon embargo which came into effect in 2005. And as a result chines weapons tanks planes and small arms are being used by the sudan government in dafur. Why do china do this. Because of oil. Sudan is estimated to have 5 billion barrels in oil reserves and 80% of the oil sudan sell goes to china. Using the weapons they got from china Sudanese government has killed tens of thousands and displaced millions from the darfur region.

I believe China has also vetoed any attempts to help the situation in the UN?

InTheTrees

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

If the purpose of the Abomb was anything other than to gather statistics on it's effecto on humans then a military target would have been chosen (such as the remaining japanese naval units) or a forest

What???

Where do you get stuff like that? If they'd bombed a forest(???) how would that have avoided them having to fight their way through Japan to take over the country? Japanese people had started committing suicide en masse once they heard the Americans had landed in the south, there was no way there was going to be a peaceful invasion. The locals thought the americans were going to eat them alive.

You're throwing out nonsense conspiracy ideas (doesn't warrant being a "theory"), without looking at the big picture.

Why would the US have been more concerned with gathering data about the effects on nukes on humans but not on ending the bloody hard fought war in the pacific?

Bombing a forest?

Kev_ps3

CommuterIE wrote: »

What's your view on this... a communist state being the next superpower? Given that China has an attrocious human rights record... or will the USA retain the title? And should they?

Atrocious human rights record? Thats nonsense. At least they arnt invading country's left right and center.