Rifle Firing Pins

kemen

At this moment i should be posting two pics of 2 charlies i've just shot tonight but instead i have 4 marked shells an 0 foxes!! 2 weeks ago i had a miss and took it as a 1 off but tonight i know theres diffently something wrong. 5 strikes with 1 shot which ended in a miss :mad:

now my question, does anyone know of anyone that makes firing pins? the rifle is a krico hornet.

ill post pics of the bullets and how much the pin puturds the bolt tomorrow.
thanks

stick shooter

kemen wrote: »

At this moment i should be posting two pics of 2 charlies i've just shot tonight but instead i have 4 marked shells an 0 foxes!! 2 weeks ago i had a miss and took it as a 1 off but tonight i know theres diffently something wrong. 5 strikes with 1 shot which ended in a miss :mad:

now my question, does anyone know of anyone that makes firing pins? the rifle is a krico hornet.

ill post pics of the bullets and how much the pin puturds the bolt tomorrow.
thanks

You could try fergal white in athlone or <snip> , They are the only two gunsmiths i can think of .

.50 (MOA)

Check the pin is properly lubricated and moving freely. I had the same bother with a .22 krico, a bit of oil and she was grand.

sfakiaman

I'd strip the bolt and give it a good clean then a light lube and try it again. Old gun oil can congeal and stop a mechanism working. I've cleaned up a shotgun where the safety couldn't be moved because it was gummed up with old oil.

clivej

sfakiaman wrote: »

I'd strip the bolt and give it a good clean then a light lube and try it again. Old gun oil can congeal and stop a mechanism working. I've cleaned up a shotgun where the safety couldn't be moved because it was gummed up with old oil.

What sfakiaman above says. Crud will build up behind the the firing pin stop shoulder and stop it going out far enough to hit the primer. Get the instruction book out a see how to disassemble the bolt and give it a good cleaning, that should solve your troubles.

Glensman

I would have started by blaming ammo before I blamed the gun?..

Try another brand of bullet and see if they fire. I would also follow the advice above and strip/clean/service the bolt.

Sparks

Not to mention there's a safety issue with the bolt, if it's so gunked up it won't fire properly. There was a case around the time I started shooting of a fullbore shooter in Bisley whose firing pin got hung up like that on the range and rather than wait, he flipped up the bolt handle (intending to discard the round as a dud and reload) and that was enough to free the pin which then set off the round and without the bolt locked in place it went straight back into his shoulder, apparently severing fingers along the way (and he was later banned from the range for unsafe practices, to add insult to injury).

If the bolt's gunked up, clean it, or get it done for you...

Glensman wrote:

I would have started by blaming ammo before I blamed the gun?

First thought was that the ammo will fire after four or five strikes so it's more likely to be the firing pin - an entire box of dud ammo is fairly rare. But check the ammo anyway - is there a firing pin indent on the cartridge, a proper good strike rather than a light tap?
If yes, possibly dodgy ammo.
If not, probably clogged up bolt or broken firing pin.

...course, it could always be something rarer, but those two or three are the main causes for that kind of failure.

Glensman

Sparks wrote: »

Not to mention there's a safety issue with the bolt, if it's so gunked up it won't fire properly. There was a case around the time I started shooting of a fullbore shooter in Bisley whose firing pin got hung up like that on the range and rather than wait, he flipped up the bolt handle (intending to discard the round as a dud and reload) and that was enough to free the pin which then set off the round and without the bolt locked in place it went straight back into his shoulder, apparently severing fingers along the way (and he was later banned from the range for unsafe practices, to add insult to injury).

If the bolt's gunked up, clean it, or get it done for you...


First thought was that the ammo will fire after four or five strikes so it's more likely to be the firing pin - an entire box of dud ammo is fairly rare. But check the ammo anyway - is there a firing pin indent on the cartridge, a proper good strike rather than a light tap?
If yes, possibly dodgy ammo.
If not, probably clogged up bolt or broken firing pin.

...course, it could always be something rarer, but those two or three are the main causes for that kind of failure.

I was given a box of federal .22lr that only fired about one in four rounds. Of course I was using my brand new Ruger 10/22 and blamed the gun- turned out it wasn't the gun at all!

As is said above, give the bolt a good clean- but I would also consider ammo.

That story from Bisley is a nasty one alright, another reminder to be careful. I think if I had have been the person that happened to the same thing may have happened me. My first reaction in that case would have been to blame a dud round. Although, I would normally feel/hear the pin strike. If there was no strike I might have been more wary... But you never know!

Sparks

Glensman wrote: »

I was given a box of federal .22lr that only fired about one in four rounds.

Ugh, federal. Them americans just can't make decent .22lr ammunition

As is said above, give the bolt a good clean- but I would also consider ammo.

I'd definitely look at it, but it just sounds like the bolt to me.

That story from Bisley is a nasty one alright, another reminder to be careful. I think if I had have been the person that happened to the same thing may have happened me. My first reaction in that case would have been to blame a dud round. Although, I would normally feel/hear the pin strike. If there was no strike I might have been more wary... But you never know!

Aye, it's one of the (though not the) first things we teach any new shooter in DURC or WTSC - here's how a shot goes, here are the steps, and if anything else at all happens other than these steps, stop and call an RO because something's wrong.

kemen

cheers lads but im fairly sure its the pin as i stripped and cleaned the bolt after the first misfire 2 weeks ago an there was no gunk in it then and used a fine film of tetra grease then! the pin is leaving a slight mark on the primer. ill post a pic later

deerhunter1

sfakiaman wrote: »

I'd strip the bolt and give it a good clean then a light lube and try it again. Old gun oil can congeal and stop a mechanism working. I've cleaned up a shotgun where the safety couldn't be moved because it was gummed up with old oil.

yep thats the way to go first, could be the problem

kemen

its as clean as a whistle and i got the ammo lot number checked an its supposed to be ok! the bottom marked bullet fired.

Glensman

Gunsmith time me thinks!

daithi55

Sparks wrote: »

Not to mention there's a safety issue with the bolt, if it's so gunked up it won't fire properly. There was a case around the time I started shooting of a fullbore shooter in Bisley whose firing pin got hung up like that on the range and rather than wait, he flipped up the bolt handle (intending to discard the round as a dud and reload) and that was enough to free the pin which then set off the round and without the bolt locked in place it went straight back into his shoulder, apparently severing fingers along the way

lifting up the bolt retracts the firing pin does it not
and unlocks the locking shoulders
from the bolt and rear of barrel
so its not possible for it to fire
maybe its a urban myth
or a fault in the weapon
or the round had been hit just hard enough to cause a delayed shot

Cass

kemen wrote: »

.............. the bottom marked bullet fired.

Could you put up another, close up photo, of the fired round.

It seems as though there is cratering on the primer cap, but from the photo it could be a light issue. If it is cratering its a pressure damage sign. If it is pressure damage there could be damage to your firing pin as a result.

This is all guess work. As said it could be the "light" making it seem so.

Tackleberrywho

kemen wrote: »

At this moment i should be posting two pics of 2 charlies i've just shot tonight but instead i have 4 marked shells an 0 foxes!! 2 weeks ago i had a miss and took it as a 1 off but tonight i know theres diffently something wrong. 5 strikes with 1 shot which ended in a miss :mad:

now my question, does anyone know of anyone that makes firing pins? the rifle is a krico hornet.

ill post pics of the bullets and how much the pin puturds the bolt tomorrow.
thanks

I had a Krico .22lr SA and the pin was dulled from wear.

I had it sharpened, but it Dulled soon after.
Eventually I gave the Rifle back to the RFD as there was other various issues with the same rifle.

Bolts are easy(ish)get apart if you know what you are doing.


Sako come with a Bolt Dis-assemly tool from new.
I have one at home somewhere.

Try your RFD to see if he has one for Krico.
Or go to a Gunsmith to open if you have no tools asa vise will scratch your bolt to bits if you go at it "bogger style "

Mr.Flibble

daithi55 wrote: »

lifting up the bolt retracts the firing pin does it not

Depends on the rifle. In particular, I don't think it does on the Lee Enfield action.

Mr.Flibble

kemen wrote: »

its as clean as a whistle and i got the ammo lot number checked an its supposed to be ok! the bottom marked bullet fired.

Looks to me like two misfires with light strikes plus one that's fired where the primer has flowed into the firing pin hole.

I'd be wondering about the state of the firing pin spring and maybe firing pin protrusion. (Difficult to see in your pic, plus I don't know what it's supposed to be on that rifle.)

Glensman's right - take it to a proper gunsmith.

kemen

i think there is a slight bit of wear on the left side of pin in visualk inspection! should the pin be flush with the front of the bolt??

@ Ez. i took 2 pics with my last fired round ( on the left ) and a previous round from weeks ago, the pic on the left is a side veiw from the last fired and u can see wear the primer came out instead of going in! why is this? in the other round theres a dint inwards with a small ring outwards. Also with the last round there was an extra loud bang and big flash from the barrel which i never seen before from the rifle!

Tackleberrywho

Gun smith! ASAP

kemen

anyone in particular that i should see about going to? im in cavan. could some tell me why the primer bubbled out instead of in?

Tackleberrywho

kemen wrote: »

anyone in particular that i should see about going to? im in cavan. could some tell me why the primer bubbled out instead of in?

Your nearest Gunsmith is Athlone, No idea why bubbled out and not inwards.

I'd be only guessing telling you.
When I heard you say noise changed I got worried for your safety

daithi55

Mr.Flibble wrote: »

Depends on the rifle. In particular, I don't think it does on the Lee Enfield action.

well if its the same design as the older lee enfields that the brits had
theres no way the firing pin can go forward as theres two grooves in the bolt one longer than the other
if the bolt is closed fully it will travel down the long groove allowing the firing pin go forward enough to strike round
if its not closed fully it will travel down the shorter groove and not fire

Cass

Apologies for the late reply. On babysitting duties for the weekend. :rolleyes:

kemen wrote: »

................ u can see wear the primer came out instead of going in! why is this?

Its called "primer back out". its a result of either a low charge in the round resulting in low pressure or excess headspace. Basically when you fire a shot the firing pin stirkes the primer, the primer ignites the powder, the immediate pressure pushes the primer back out, and as the pressure builds with the continuing burning of the powder the case is then pushed back against the bolt face and this "re-seats" the primer or pushes it back in.

When the load is too low/headspace is excessive there is not enough pressure to re-seat primer and you get what you have in the case on the left.

......in the other round theres a dint inwards with a small ring outwards.......

The only very slight sign of pressure on the other case (the one on the right) is the slight cratering around the firing pin strike mark. However there is no flattening of the primer itself and i presume there is no damage to the neck/case or base of the case or you would have mentioned it.

...... Also with the last round there was an extra loud bang and big flash from the barrel which i never seen before from the rifle....

You say there was a louder than normal bang and a slight flash from the case on the right. With the primer crater and that info i wold say they are loaded a little hotter than the one on the left. Are they from the same batch or are they the same brand?

kemen

thanks Ez, what is this down to? ammo? the bang and flsah was from the shell on the left wher the primer came outwards! what would you suggest i do? bring ammo back? all the shells are from the same box!

Cass

kemen wrote: »

thanks Ez, what is this down to? ammo?

Yes. The fact that you are getting contrasting signs from each case would "worry" me slightly. If there was a problem with the ammo, and with them being the same batch/box, you should get consistant problems with all the ammo. Does that make sense? In other words you should have the same "signs" on each case. Not different markings/signs.

Remember when a manufacturer loads ammo they do so in such a way that it is "lawyer friendly". Meaning the load will always be well below the max load for that caliber, and the seating depth of the bullet will allow for any rifle to chamber it. This is why people try different types of ammo. Different manufacturers have different loading settings so one may be loaded "hotter" or not seated as deeply and will suit your rifle better than another make.

........... what would you suggest i do? bring ammo back? all the shells are from the same box!

I would at least stop using them. Have you tried other ammo. Not the same batch/brand just different ammo? I would try this and see if the same signs appear on different ammo. Doesn't matter about groups, performance, etc. All you're looking for is these signs and do the same "misfires" occur.

Before doing anything though i would consult a gunsmith. The "light" striking on the primer as shown in your original photos would be a cause for concern. This would almost certainly be a rifle problem. When the primer is struck sfficiently it will fire. The fact that the rounds are not fiing means the primer is not beeing struck hard enough. As said this is most definitely a rifle (bolt/firing pin) issue, and even if i knew exactly what the problem was i would never consider telling someone to "mess around" with such important parts of a gun.

Tackleberrywho

Was there not a Hornet ammo Warning a while ago from Remington or Winchester??

Cass

You posted it Tack.

Tackleberrywho

Ezridax wrote: »

You posted it Tack.

Ah, you know me.

I do a lot of stuff, hard to remember it all

I never had an issue with ammo like that before, or seen it.

I've only seen a poor strike mark.