Now IS the time to protest. Peacefully. [Protest outside Dail Eireann 06/04/2011]

DeVore

[this is written simply as a user and an Irishman... not as an administrator of the site or in any way representative of the site. These are my personal opinions.]



A while back I wrote this thread saying that last summer was not the time to protest: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055911944


I stand by what I said then. But now the timing is different. We've exited the bond market, we dont WANT to borrow money at 10+% so it no longer matters what the bond market wants to charge us. Make it 20%, who cares! Crucially we borrowed money to get us through to the summer last autumn and we also have an (expensive) line of credit from the IMF and the ECB.

Right now we need to get our elbows out, politically and financially and unfortunately the shysters we elected have failed us. Lied to us.

There hasnt been a renegotiation, there hasnt been any sharing of the pain.

FG have dissappointed and Labour are the new Greens it would appear... wringing their hands but voting along with the government.


There is a protest tomorrow at the Dail at 6pm. I cant be there because I'm abroad but if you feel like voicing your opposition to bailing out the bondholders then go along on Wednesday and remind our government that its us they have to answer to.

We've had our election, this is the only course remaining open to us.

DeV.

ps: Hopefully it wont be spoiled and overshadowed by idiots like Eirigi and their violent protests. Surely its obvious to them how such tactics backfire and are used to dismiss genuine peaceful protest?

Cypher_sounds

Whats the point in protesting? nothing will change.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Cypher_sounds wrote: »

Whats the point in protesting? nothing will change.

What's the point in apathy? Nohting will change.

OPENROAD

DeVore wrote: »

[this is written simply as a user and an Irishman... not as an administrator of the site or in any way representative of the site. These are my personal opinions.]



A while back I wrote this thread saying that last summer was not the time to protest: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055911944


I stand by what I said then. But now the timing is different. We've exited the bond market, we dont WANT to borrow money at 10+% so it no longer matters what the bond market wants to charge us. Make it 20%, who cares! Crucially we borrowed money to get us through to the summer last autumn and we also have an (expensive) line of credit from the IMF and the ECB.

Right now we need to get our elbows out, politically and financially and unfortunately the shysters we elected have failed us. Lied to us.

There hasnt been a renegotiation, there hasnt been any sharing of the pain.

FG have dissappointed and Labour are the new Greens it would appear... wringing their hands but voting along with the government.


There is a protest tomorrow at the Dail at 6pm. I cant be there because I'm abroad but if you feel like voicing your opposition to bailing out the bondholders then go along on Wednesday and remind our government that its us they have to answer to.

We've had our election, this is the only course remaining open to us.

DeV.

ps: Hopefully it wont be spoiled and overshadowed by idiots like Eirigi and their violent protests. Surely its obvious to them how such tactics backfire and are used to dismiss genuine peaceful protest?

Don't you mean can't at that rate?

DeVore

Nope, we can certainly still borrow at that rate.... the paying back bit might be tricky, but we can borrow

There is no legal or financial reason we couldnt go out and borrow tomorrow at the 10% rate. It would be madness but thats not what you asked.


DeV

Cypher_sounds

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

What's the point in apathy? Nohting will change.

Apathy? Everyone knows people have concerns about our banking crisis and what not. Politicians know all the sh*t talk/false promises they have done for the sake of our vote, us protesting ain't gonna change a thing, we will be told we wanted/voted for change and thats what we got.

OPENROAD

DeVore wrote: »

Nope, we can certainly still borrow at that rate.... the paying back bit might be tricky, but we can borrow

There is no legal or financial reason we couldnt go out and borrow tomorrow at the 10% rate. It would be madness but thats not what you asked.


DeV

I know, that is what I meant

randylonghorn

DeVore wrote: »

ps: Hopefully it wont be spoiled and overshadowed by idiots like Eirigi and their violent protests. Surely its obvious to them how such tactics backfire and are used to dismiss genuine peaceful protest?

Either

(a) they're too dense to get it, or

(b) they're actively seeking the escalation and fancy themselves as some kind of modern revolutionaries.

Or a bit of both.

ilovesleep

I want to protest but god damn it give me notice please. wont be able to make it tomorrow

AlmightyCushion

Activist: What do we want!?
Crowd: The gradual phase-out of animal testing over the next three years?
Activist: When do we want it!?
Crowd: Over the next three years!

Cavehill Red

Won't happen.

Ireland is a nation of sheep. When offered a stick, they start offering advice on where they'd like to be hit, how hard and how many times.

The usual agitators will be at the protests. The cops know their pictures well at this point. The Dail won't even notice, let alone care. In the meantime, they'll line their own nests, just like the last lot, under the orders from Brussels.

I've given up on this country. In a year or two, when the time is right and I've made the necessary arrangements, I'll be gone. Hopefully to somewhere where people still have some backbone, pride and self-respect.

In the interim, I recommend that everyone look out for themselves. Let's face it, that's the ideology that this country has been based upon - the only ideology it's been based upon - since its foundation.

Is that apathy? No. Is it defeatist? Not on a personal level, no. I sure as hell won't be paying a penny of bankster debt. I've made sure of that. On a national level? Yes, it is both defeatist and accurate. This is a nation of sheep. Jim Larkin told them to get off their knees in 1913. Nearly a century on, it's yet to happen.

Humans eh!

DeVore wrote: »

There is a protest tomorrow at the Dail at 6pm. I cant be there because I'm abroad but if you feel like voicing your opposition to bailing out the bondholders then go along on Wednesday and remind our government that its us they have to answer to.

Sadly peaceful protest is a sop given to the population as a way of venting pressure, An emotional valve that allows people the illusion of doing something while nothing in actuality changes. Governments love to encourage peaceful protest purely for its impotence. It is naive to believe that they give a toss and can or will change anything because a group of dignified well behaved people walk peacefully around with a placard.

DeVore wrote: »

We've had our election, this is the only course remaining open to us.

What do you propose to threaten them with - another election?

DeVore wrote: »

ps: Hopefully it wont be spoiled and overshadowed by idiots like Eirigi and their violent protests. Surely its obvious to them how such tactics backfire and are used to dismiss genuine peaceful protest?

It will and yes its obvious, but they have anger issues with authority and society and wish to demonstrate violently to vent frustration.
The Government will only answer by unleashing its obedient attack dogs who ironically are just as keen for a ruck as any Eirigi activist, only the machine of the state is behind only one of those groups.

Non violent civil disobedience is the only route to take to get attention from the Government. Organised non payment of taxes etc, and a willingness to go to prison for your principles is the only way to make them notice how pissed off you are. But that would take courage and commitment and inconvenience and a bit of hassle and hardship. Clog up the system and watch things change.

Its easier to make a sign and stroll calmly down the street though blowing a whistle, banging a drum.."What Do We Want?" When do we want it? etc etc

... and thats exactly what they want.
They won't even bother to look out their windows.

Logical Fallacy

Cavehill Red wrote: »

I've given up on this country. In a year or two, when the time is right and I've made the necessary arrangements, I'll be gone. Hopefully to somewhere where people still have some backbone, pride and self-respect.

lol, cool irony bro.

DeVore

Cypher_sounds wrote: »

Apathy? Everyone knows people have concerns about our banking crisis and what not. Politicians know all the sh*t talk/false promises they have done for the sake of our vote, us protesting ain't gonna change a thing, we will be told we wanted/voted for change and thats what we got.

Sorry, what change did we get? I dont see anything different between this and FF's proposals.... not a cent has been renegotiated, labour have reneged on their promises too.

What change??

DeV.

RichieC

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

Activist: What do we want!?
Crowd: The gradual phase-out of animal testing over the next three years?
Activist: When do we want it!?
Crowd: Over the next three years!

*wipes tear away*

Cavehill Red

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

lol, cool irony bro.

If you think this country has any backbone, pride or self-respect, I'm fascinated to see evidence of it.

But I suspect that all you've got is BS memespeak. No doubt your idea of protest is launching a facebook petition. Keep bending over, keep handing them your cash, keep on keeping your head down. Like a good little sheep.

Cypher_sounds

DeVore wrote: »

Sorry, what change did we get? I dont see anything different between this and FF's proposals.... not a cent has been renegotiated, labour have reneged on their promises too.

What change??

DeV.

Obviously the change im talking about is the different names of politicians and the change of party names in government but alas the proposals seem to remain the same when we were promised different at election time.

Different names same sh*t.

bc dub

Grabbing headlines about how many people did or did not turn up to a (hopefully) peaceful protest, will realistically change nothing.

We need a lot more unemployment in the country which is something we dont have at present. A couple of thousand people marching to the dail to then disband several hours later achieves nothing. We need those people to march and stay there until change happens.

This wont happen because they have to get home and most likely on Monday, get back to work or face losing their job.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Cypher_sounds wrote: »

Apathy? Everyone knows people have concerns about our banking crisis and what not. Politicians know all the sh*t talk/false promises they have done for the sake of our vote, us protesting ain't gonna change a thing, we will be told we wanted/voted for change and thats what we got.

... and the reason this will happen is because no one ever complains about it.

Of course the politicians are goign to lie to you. You're happy to let them do it.

Topper Harley

Cavehill Red wrote: »

If you think this country has any backbone, pride or self-respect, I'm fascinated to see evidence of it.

But I suspect that all you've got is BS memespeak. No doubt your idea of protest is launching a facebook petition. Keep bending over, keep handing them your cash, keep on keeping your head down. Like a good little sheep.

But you're not showing any backbone yourself, you're just running away, leaving the "sheep" to pick up the pieces.

Cypher_sounds

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

... and the reason this will happen is because no one ever complains about it.

Of course the politicians are goign to lie to you. You're happy to let them do it.

No-one ever complains about it? If you actually think that then you must have your head buried in the sand.

How did I let them do it? Politics is corrupt i tells you CORRUPT, they're let do what they want lies and all, but then a few years later they love having these type of moarity tribunals and wasting lots more of our money, scandalous.

Cavehill Red

Topper Harley wrote: »

But you're not showing any backbone yourself, you're just running away, leaving the "sheep" to pick up the pieces.

I did my bit. I did more than my bit. It did little good to me or to my family.
There comes a point in time when you have to accept that the definition of stupidity is doing the same thing repeatedly while hoping for a different outcome.
I've now come to accept that there won't be a different outcome. This isn't Iceland. This isn't even Greece. This is some sort of pathetic nowhereland where people are happy being helots.
Lest I be misunderstood, I'm not some deranged Marxist who wasted decades waiting on a revolution that never comes. I worked fighting corruption in this country, and at this point in time it is as bad as it ever was, and the people more abject than ever before.
The lively, the feisty, the talented, the intelligent - they're all encouraged to leave. They always were, but for a few brief years in recent memory.
Well, I'm off to join them now and I make no apologies for it. The day and hour this country grows a backbone and stands up for itself - refuses to pay debts it doesn't owe, stops accepting gombeenery and corruption as the way things are done, works to create jobs for its people instead of money for foreign billionaires - then I'll come back.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Cypher_sounds wrote: »

No-one ever complains about it? If you actually think that then you must have your head buried in the sand.

How did I let them do it? Politics is corrupt i tells you CORRUPT, they're let do what they want lies and all, but then a few years later they love having these type of moarity tribunals and wasting lots more of our money, scandalous.

Hey, no point complaining to me, I emigrated years ago. And they do it an they continue to do it because no oen ever complains. You get some good sizeable protests going and maybe they'll think different. Do nothing and they won't.

Topper Harley

Cavehill Red wrote: »

I did my bit. I did more than my bit. It did little good to me or to my family.
There comes a point in time when you have to accept that the definition of stupidity is doing the same thing repeatedly while hoping for a different outcome.
I've now come to accept that there won't be a different outcome. This isn't Iceland. This isn't even Greece. This is some sort of pathetic nowhereland where people are happy being helots.
Lest I be misunderstood, I'm not some deranged Marxist who wasted decades waiting on a revolution that never comes. I worked fighting corruption in this country, and at this point in time it is as bad as it ever was, and the people more abject than ever before.
The lively, the feisty, the talented, the intelligent - they're all encouraged to leave. They always were, but for a few brief years in recent memory.
Well, I'm off to join them now and I make no apologies for it. The day and hour this country grows a backbone and stands up for itself - refuses to pay debts it doesn't owe, stops accepting gombeenery and corruption as the way things are done, works to create jobs for its people instead of money for foreign billionaires - then I'll come back.

Fair enough.

Now, I'll accept from the outset that I'm not as knowledgable on this as I think you or others here are, but what would actually have been the outcome had Sinn Fein gotten a majority in the election and told the IMF to fcuk off? (That is if I'm not mistaken about their approach to the IMF). While I like the idea, I won't just blindly accept that that would solve all our problems.

Logical Fallacy

Cavehill Red wrote: »

If you think this country has any backbone, pride or self-respect, I'm fascinated to see evidence of it.

But I suspect that all you've got is BS memespeak. No doubt your idea of protest is launching a facebook petition. Keep bending over, keep handing them your cash, keep on keeping your head down. Like a good little sheep.

Nope, my idea of protest is the multitude of protests and marches that i went to over the past year (and the last decade). My idea of political activity is to contact any TD who will listen to me by any channel i can in a vain attempt to keep vital funding so that the disabled students i work with will continue to be able to continue their educations and have the same chances to succeed and the same opportunities as everyone else and not be pushed into the background without a second thought.

But yeah, keep the assumptions coming if it makes you feel better. If you need help spotting the irony of giving out about a lack of backbone while talking about leaving the country then i can't help, as you seem to think that the only person who is allowed to get tired and apathetic about the state of the nation is you.

Is mise le key

Just thought i would post this up here as i remember the last time i announced a protest outside the Dail it was of interest to quite a few posters from here,

Protest 06/04/2011 Outside Dail Eireann

Referendum seems the only right way to thrash the entire issue out around this 'bailout'.

Also here another graph that may be of interest to you,

Billion dollar o gram

Wazdakka

Rabble rabble rabble...

bonerm

Is mise le key wrote: »

Also here another graph that may be of interest to you,

Billion dollar o gram

I think Brass Eye want their chart back.

bc dub

on a wednesday? i'd say the senior bondholders are cackin it

chin_grin

bonerm wrote: »

I think Brass Eye want their chart back.

Great now I have that never-ending ad break jingle stuck in my head. Grr.

novarock

Isnt one of your speakers, Mick Wallace 40 Million euro in debt?

novarock

And what will be voting for in this referendum??

chin_grin

novarock wrote: »

Isnt one of your speakers, Mick Wallace 40 Million euro in debt?

Dun dun duuuuuuuuuuuuuuun!

Is mise le key

Great stuff, this thread is unfolding almost carbon copy to the last time i posted a notice here, keep it coming & any who are interested hope you can make it, any of you who aren't i'll roar a chant or two for ye;):D

TheZohanS

Only a minority of people can mobilise themselves at such short notice...it will end up being taken over by thugs.

Coriolanus

Give mick a good handshake for me.

Is mise le key

TheZohan wrote: »

Only a minority of people can mobilise themselves at such short notice...it will end up being taken over by thugs.

Would you have come over from the big apple if i had poosted it last week:D

chin_grin

TheZohan wrote: »

Only a minority of people can mobilise themselves at such short notice...it will end up being taken over by thugs.

Won't somebody think of the children!

ejmaztec

novarock wrote: »

And what will be voting for in this referendum??

Prosecutions for incomplete sentences.

Peanut2011

And do we know how much would a referendum like this cost the Nation???? Even if there was one held it would not make any difference unless IMF agreed to change the current contract.

The only way they would ever agreed is if the Germany and France agreed and they will agree if our Corporation Tax was changed.

Either way, referendum or not, we will end up paying the price for the next 30 years. Why throw more money on referendums and all the TV ads and posters and so on.....

squod

The last General Election was a bleedin' referendum. People voted in favour of austerity and in favour of the bail-outs. By an overwhelming majority mind. What more do you want?

TheZohanS

Is mise le key wrote: »

Would you have come over from the big apple if i had poosted it last week:D

Is dòigh liom.

Is mise le key

Peanut2011 wrote: »

And do we know how much would a referendum like this cost the Nation???? Even if there was one held it would not make any difference unless IMF agreed to change the current contract.

The only way they would ever agreed is if the Germany and France agreed and they will agree if our Corporation Tax was changed.

Either way, referendum or not, we will end up paying the price for the next 30 years. Why throw more money on referendums and all the TV ads and posters and so on.....

Perhaps your right, lets keep the money for Obama & Queen lizzie's visits instead:rolleyes:

Is mise le key

TheZohan wrote: »

Is dòigh liom.

cac capall:D

Absurdum

so what's the plan for when we vote No to all this stuff?

Gunsfortoys

Absurdum wrote: »

so what's the plan for when we vote No to all this stuff?

Profit.

Is mise le key

Absurdum wrote: »

so what's the plan for when we vote No to all this stuff?

End to capitalism, beginning of Socialism.

chin_grin

Gunsfortoys wrote: »

Profit.

You forgot the '????' bit.

Absurdum

Is mise le key wrote: »

End to capitalism, beginning of Socialism.

that sounds like a comprehensive plan for success, many thanks bro

Is mise le key

Absurdum wrote: »

that sounds like a comprehensive plan for success, many thanks bro

Yes, both ideologies are quite comprehensive & vast when you get into them.

Chairman Meow

Is mise le key wrote: »

End to capitalism, beginning of Socialism.

a haha haha hahaha...

hahahahaha!!!!

A HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!

Oh you kids...*wipes tear* you make me laugh.