I'm sick of the silent majority of men. ***MOD WARNING POST 72***

Mallei

I'm sick of the modern "feminist" man. The man who agrees with you in conversation that women should have every opportunity that men have, who looks digusted when you tell him tales of all the sh1t you've put up with. Who says you're right to fight for equality. But who remains completely silent when it matters.

Once again at work I was made to put up with sexist comments, and once again the women stood alone against them. My boss is terrible for making sexist comments that he finds funny, and today he crossed the line and I felt I should say something back. Of course, what followed was a row in front of everyone where the only person who stood up to help me was the other girl in the office.

Every single one of the men sat there silently. Every one. Some of these men have told me in conversation that they believe in equal rights. They said they didn't think anyone should put up with anything purely because of their gender. But when that was called into question today, when they needed to show that they believed that, they sat there silently. I'm sick of this.

You are not believers in equal rights. You can sit there and talk the fcuking talk, but when you needed to stand up next to the women and tell my boss he was a complete fcuking b*stard, you didn't.

I was asked why women tried to fight for equality alone once. This is why. The majority of men don't give a fcuk when push comes to shove. They'll tell you they believe in equality and shure they won't complain about it if it arrives, but they won't fight for it.

So, silent majority of men: go fcuk yourselves.

P.S. I'm sorry to make my first post on Boards a rant, but I've been a long time lurker and I was made so angry today I just had to put it down somewhere.

Wolfe Tone

Could be a thousand reasons why they stayed silent...


So many generalizations.

Jumpy

What was the comment if you dont mind me asking?
You might find it was standing up to the boss that was the issue rather than sexism.

Count Duckula

May I ask what the comment was? Perhaps, as Jumpy says, it was more that they feared pissing off the boss than had any great desire to see the destruction of the women's rights movement.

Mallei

Well the other woman in the office wasn't too scared of the boss to stop her standing with me...

It's not just this, either. Typical response "overreacting woman", "you're being hysterical". How many times have those same men sat in the pub and not reacted to a sexist comment? How many times have they laughed at a joke or been derogatory about "women drivers"?

I don't care if in their heads they think they believe in equal rights, because without action it won't go anywhere. If every woman had the same attitude of "oh shure it's a lovely idea but it's not my problem" then we'd still be second class citizens in this country.

Every time one of those men says nothing when one of his mates makes a sexist comment he is betraying the idea he supposes to defend. I have never in all my years seen a man stand up to criticise a sexist opinion or comment. He might agree with me afterwards that it wasn't a nice thing to do, but it's always me or another woman who has to challenge the speaker. The man would let it slide.

That's what makes me angry.

Silverfish

I can understand why you might be outright-blind-rage-furiously angry, but to be honest, when it comes to a situation in the workplace where its a 'Your equality / rights / etc VS my job' you'll find most people, especially in the current climate, will stay silent.

I'm not sure about your workplace, but I know in many of mine, very rarely will anyone, regardless of gender, go to bat for someone else.
If it's not directly affecting them, they won't stand up, because at the end of (their) day, people just want to get in, work, get through the day with the least amount of hassle and get home.

It's fine to have a rant, sounds like you need to , but you might be surprised, perhaps they will wait til tempers cool to have a word with your boss? Perhaps if your boss makes a comment to them about it, they'll mention you were right?

reallyrose

It could also be general social awkwardness.
It can be hard to speak up in public about anything. I wouldn't rush to concluding that your co-workers wish to see you barefoot and in the kitchen.

It may turn out that any one or more of the men there have spoken to the boss privately to bring up the comment.

And don't forget, if you feel that you are being discriminated against because of your gender at work, you can speak to HR.

Edit, totally ninja'd by everyone!

pow wow

Mallei wrote: »

You can sit there and talk the fcuking talk, but when you needed to stand up next to the women and tell my boss he was a complete fcuking b*stard, you didn't.

+1 on Silverfish. People in general are weak-willed, particularly when it's not their fight so to speak. Though if you were actually calling your boss a "fcuking b*stard" in the workplace I don't know that I'd have backed you up either - there are ways and means of handling things and blazing rows with your superiors usually aren't the right way.

staker

If it was a blatant sexist remark,fair enough you have a point OP,but we need to know the extent of the statement.
Also it sounds like it's an ongoing issue at your workplace to which others may be oblivious and were probably dumbfounded to see the outburst maybe?

And no,I'm not making excuses,just would like to know the facts to support such an attack on this silent majority of men..

al28283

You had the right to stand up for yourself. In years gone by women didn't have that right. That's what equal rights means, it doesn't mean everyone has to agree with you or stick up for you. There are many many reasons why these people might have kept quiet in this situation and it was their right to do so.

Silverfish

Mallei wrote: »

So, silent majority of men: go fcuk yourselves.

Yes, sorry OP, but I'm going to have to ask you to clarify this statement, I presumed you were referring to your co-workers here, but this is an offensive statement, I really can't condone that here.

mikemac

Mallei wrote: »

Once again at work I was made to put up with sexist comments, and once again the women stood alone against them. My boss is terrible for making sexist comments that he finds funny, and today he crossed the line and I felt I should say something back. Of course, what followed was a row in front of everyone where the only person who stood up to help me was the other girl in the office.

Every single one of the men sat there silently. Every one.

Everyone saw the blazing row.
But did everyone hear the comments the boss made?

So maybe they saw you reacting but don't what it started over.

There are ways of handling these things. If you demanded a one to one meeting with the boss and maybe bring a witness they might have backed up.
But few would step into a row. That goes for something in the office or maybe what you see outside a pub at the weekends.
People just want to get on with their shift and get home with no hassle.

Giselle

Mallei wrote: »

This is why. The majority of men don't give a fcuk when push comes to shove. They'll tell you they believe in equality and shure they won't complain about it if it arrives, but they won't fight for it.

Its crappy to be the target of sexist remarks, but making them in return will never help your case.

Links234

Mallei wrote: »

The majority of men don't give a fcuk when push comes to shove.

or the ones who do give a **** keep silent because they'll be mocked by other men who'll call them "white-knighting pussies" or "homos" or other things. sexism thrives because men who do dare to question it are put in their place pretty quick.

holystungun9

Silverfish wrote: »

Yes, sorry OP, but I'm going to have to ask you to clarify this statement, I presumed you were referring to your co-workers here, but this is an offensive statement, I really can't condone that here.

Yeah, that should be clarified. Is there any poster here willing to say the same and replace the word men with the word women?? for whatever reason you may have

cardwizzard

Often a quite word to let him know where you stand will have more effect than causing a row/scene if if you are in the right. Now you could be classed as the office you know what and some people can react differently to that. Not saying this will happen, but have seen similar senarios.

What was the statement he made?

Silverfish

holystungun9 wrote: »

Yeah, that should be clarified. Is there any poster here willing to say the same and replace the word men with the word women?? for whatever reason you may have

We're dealing with it, so leave it to the mods please.

The response to sexism is not more sexism.

Mallei

Silverfish wrote: »

Yes, sorry OP, but I'm going to have to ask you to clarify this statement, I presumed you were referring to your co-workers here, but this is an offensive statement, I really can't condone that here.

Sorry, maybe I got a little heated.

But I am talking from experience. I've been in pubs, in other jobs, with groups of friends and I've seen sexist or derogatory comments made that the men just let slide by and leave the women to fight against.

Yes, I'm sure there must be some men out there who will stand up and fight for women's rights, but I've never met one. Almost every man I've met will tell me how he thinks both genders are equal and then, when put in a situation where he needs to prove it, do nothing to show that he actually believes it.

DarkJager

Mallei wrote: »

Sorry, maybe I got a little heated.

But I am talking from experience. I've been in pubs, in other jobs, with groups of friends and I've seen sexist or derogatory comments made that the men just let slide by and leave the women to fight against.

Yes, I'm sure there must be some men out there who will stand up and fight for women's rights, but I've never met one. Almost every man I've met will tell me how he thinks both genders are equal and then, when put in a situation where he needs to prove it, do nothing to show that he actually believes it.

Most people don't get paid enough to care about what happens in an office. Go to work, get the day done and go home. Its not like any of those people have any obligations at all to you apart from being polite and working with you during the day.

Jumpy

What was the comment?

Mallei

Links234 wrote: »

or the ones who do give a **** keep silent because they'll be mocked by other men who'll call them "white-knighting pussies" or "homos" or other things. sexism thrives because men who do dare to question it are put in their place pretty quick.

But is that an excuse?! Because other men might make mean comments at them they're too scared that they'll be "put in their place"?

Women fighting for equal rights have had to put up with comments aimed to put us in our place for decades, but we ignore them as the words of a misogynist and battle on. If my co-workers and all the other silent men out there truly are on my side then why can't they do the same?

Which is my point - they'll tell me how right I am, but when it comes down to it they're all too scared or apathetic to do anything about it.

who what when

Doubt if im going to get much agreement here about this but I believe the majority of sexist comments these days are from women directed at men!
Slightly off topic I know but just making the point that not just men are sexist!

Mallei

Jumpy wrote: »

What was the comment?

My boss said to the other girl who had done a good job that as a reward "maybe we'll get you a pole to dance round, though I think perhaps the lads will like that more!". Then he p1ssed himself laughing.

Wolfe Tone

You can just as easily have a lad getting bullied or something in the workplace and no one will speak up. Getting into a fight with your boss is hardly an advantageous thing to do.

OP, can you go over his head?

gypsy_rose

OP, I am completely in solidarity with you on this. I may be contradicted on this as making a sweeping generalisation, but I find that a lot of the time women let these kind of things go over their heads because they've been taught not to make a fuss or appear "hysterical" and this is why people think they can get away with these kind of things. We need more women like you who will stand up and say "this is not OK and I will not tolerate this." Fair duce to you for standing up for youself. And yes, I will agree that men should feel the same way, but 9 times out of 10 when something similiar to this has happened to me, nobody has backed me up, neither men nor women.

Ickle Magoo

Most people work to live, not the other way around. I don't know many people, especially given the current climate, who would risk their job by having a go at or ganging up on their boss. It's all very well having principles, or even expressing those principles one-to-one or in a social situation but expecting people to run to your rescue and join in on a blazing row with their superior, risking their jobs in the process, is just completely unrealistic.

OP, while I appreciate your frustration, if you want to deal with a colleague who crosses the line then either have a quiet word in their ear or take the official route - having a shouting match across the office just shows your boss he's getting to you and makes you look both unprofessional and impetuous.

Have a glass of wine and chat to a close friend and get it all out your system, keep a diary of things your boss says and does and then either confront him, take it to his superior or take the legal route - ensuring the office has an atmosphere and holding everyone else responsible for not joining in on your battles is not the way to go about this.

All the best

gypsy_rose

Mallei wrote: »

My boss said to the other girl who had done a good job that as a reward "maybe we'll get you a pole to dance round, though I think perhaps the lads will like that more!". Then he p1ssed himself laughing.

I don't blame you for your reaction at all, I personally would have had his head!

*note, this is a joke, but he wouldn't have heard the end of it.

Giselle

Mallei wrote: »

Which is my point - they'll tell me how right I am, but when it comes down to it they're all too scared or apathetic to do anything about it.

I really think thats an unfair (yes, and sexist) generalisation. Your workmates are not all men. And without any knowlege of the incident its impossible to tell if they're silent sexists or pragmatists.

Edit: just saw the clarification

Silverfish

Mallei wrote: »

Sorry, maybe I got a little heated.

But I am talking from experience. I've been in pubs, in other jobs, with groups of friends and I've seen sexist or derogatory comments made that the men just let slide by and leave the women to fight against.

Yes, I'm sure there must be some men out there who will stand up and fight for women's rights, but I've never met one. Almost every man I've met will tell me how he thinks both genders are equal and then, when put in a situation where he needs to prove it, do nothing to show that he actually believes it.

Okay, since you're new here and all, I'll just recommend you have a read of the charter.


Well, it's tough for guys in the workplace, because it's not really their battle. They may view a woman retaliating to a sexist male boss as an attack on ALL men, so they want to stay out of it. Or they're afraid they might be next, if they make an accidental comment.

It'd be nice if we could all jump in and say 'HEY, that's wrong!' but it's unlikely to happen. People just want to keep their heads down.

The best way to deal with this stuff as and when it happens is deep breath, stop the conversation, go away - WRITE IT DOWN - DATES AND TIMES! - and then later, when your boss has forgotten the whole conversation, ask him has he got a few minutes, and tell him calmly and clearly how his comments are inappropriate, how they make you feel, and the position he's putting himself in by making them.
Just, you thought you'd let him know, as a favour to him, like

cardwizzard

Mallei wrote: »

My boss said to the other girl who had done a good job that as a reward "maybe we'll get you a pole to dance round, though I think perhaps the lads will like that more!". Then he p1ssed himself laughing.

Was a bit much. Does he say these alot. If he dos keep a diary of the instances, maybe useful in the future.

Wolfe Tone

Mallei wrote: »

My boss said to the other girl who had done a good job that as a reward "maybe we'll get you a pole to dance round, though I think perhaps the lads will like that more!". Then he p1ssed himself laughing.

Personally I find that a bit funny, but as a superior and taking into account the environment he was wrong to say it. However, I think you dealt with it wrong(it seems you went mad and yelled at him?)

holystungun9

Mallei wrote: »

My boss said to the other girl who had done a good job that as a reward "maybe we'll get you a pole to dance round, though I think perhaps the lads will like that more!". Then he p1ssed himself laughing.

That is a terrible comment, way way way off the mark. Does he have someone else over him? I know that does not address the situation with your male colleagues but if he is that sexist or clueless he needs to be seriously schooled.

The Orb

What the boss said totally inappropriate but can you tell me why you even needed your male colleagues to back you up? It was your argument.

gypsy_rose

The Orb wrote: »

What the boss said totally inappropriate but can you tell me why you even needed your male colleagues to back you up? It was your argument.

That's like saying, "Oh you're being bullied in front of everyone at the workplace, but they're talking to you so why would you expect others to intervene?"

Silverfish

The Orb wrote: »

What the boss said totally inappropriate but can you tell me why you even needed your male colleagues to back you up? It was your argument.

I'm going to guess and say it's because sometimes, very sexist men like the OP's boss need to hear something is sexist and inappropriate from other men, because then they will actually take it seriously, rather than writing it off as 'women complaining'.

If you look at this guy's mentality, thinking it's okay to make that comment to a female employee that did a good job, then is he really going to take the complaints of a female employee seriously?

smcgiff

Your boss is a moron, but I'd be fairly sure that if this is his humour then the men in the office would not be immune from his hilarious repartee. Possibly mocking their weight, loss of hair etc. Have a think back or is it only the women of the office. Either way, some good advice here re the HR route.

Is this person your manager or the owner of business. If only a manager then it should be manageable.

staker

Mallei wrote: »

My boss said to the other girl who had done a good job that as a reward "maybe we'll get you a pole to dance round, though I think perhaps the lads will like that more!". Then he p1ssed himself laughing.

That's bang out of order.

You need to document this,and other remarks made by him and go see either him or a superior with your garnered material at some stage in the future.
If he's not reprimanded(i.e for this instance,fired),I'd pursue legal avenues.

The reason you don't get the back-up you seek in these instances from other parties is because it's a minefield in that any statement can be construed to mean something completely different to the way it was originally meant in the heat of the moment,and most people will not take that risk.

Mallei

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Personally I find that a bit funny, but as a superior and taking into account the environment he was wrong to say it. However, I think you dealt with it wrong(it seems you went mad and yelled at him?)

Hang on, are you trying to paint me as the bad guy in all this? That I'm - dare I say it - getting hysterical over a harmless joke? Where have I heard that before?

And I can't really go down the HR route because my boss is the owner of the company (we're only a small company), which is why he's quite so vocal, offensive and over the top, because he thinks he can do what he likes. My only avenue would be a legal one.

smcgiff

Mallei wrote: »

And I can't really go down the HR route because my boss is the owner of the company (we're only a small company), which is why he's quite so vocal, offensive and over the top, because he thinks he can do what he likes. My only avenue would be a legal one.

Yeah - was worried that might be the case - a little Hitler

Count Duckula

You could have just described my boss, Mallei. He's also pretty f**king awful for making sexist comments he thinks are hilarious, and he also thinks he can do what he likes because he owns the company. Thing is, the women in my office just ignore him, or deflate him with a withering look or remark. I'd like to think I'd step in on their side if it ever came down to it (though probably not in a screaming match, because that solves nothing), but since they - as the female targets of his sexist jokes - have never tried to take it further then I'm not going to be the one to press the issue.

Wolfe Tone

Mallei wrote: »

Hang on, are you trying to paint me as the bad guy in all this? That I'm - dare I say it - getting hysterical over a harmless joke? Where have I heard that before?

And I can't really go down the HR route because my boss is the owner of the company (we're only a small company), which is why he's quite so vocal, offensive and over the top, because he thinks he can do what he likes. My only avenue would be a legal one.

Yawn.

No, I said he was wrong (I found it funny because it was so inappropriate) however throwing the head at him is, in my opinion, not the best way to go about it.
Only a fool will back someone up who is throwing the head at the company owner, why would they possibly risk their jobs or promotions by doing the same?

Callan57

Mallei ... could I ask are you a member of a union? If you are then you should take the issue to your union rep ... it is immaterial how anyone else in the office reacted to the comment if you found it offensive you are entitled to have the issue taken up on your behalf.
I happily have come across instances of 'real' men insisting that a colleague apologise for a blatantly sexist comment. It really is a matter of maturity and unfortunately many inadequate men resort to offensive comments to mask their own deficiencies .. in the same way that men who are insecure in their own sexuality resort to offensive homophobic remarks.

gypsy_rose

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Yawn.

No, I said he was wrong (I found it funny because it was so inappropriate) however throwing the head at him is, in my opinion, not the best way to go about it.
Only a fool will back someone up who is throwing the head at the company owner, why would they possibly risk their jobs or promotions by doing the same?

Yeah well I personally don't think it's very nice to actually tell the person you're laughing at the thing that upsets them, makes it sound like it was an OK thing to say, or that you "get" why the boss made that comment

ButcherOfNog

Quick one on this, the Boss make the completely inappropriate remark, laughed at the joke himself, the other guys did not join in the laughter, and sat there silent.

Or did the guys join in the laughing?

vicwatson

My boss is terrible for making sexist comments that he finds funny

There is laws against that y'know, there to protect you in this situation.

Wolflikeme

Mallei wrote: »

I'm sick of the modern "feminist" man. The man who agrees with you in conversation that women should have every opportunity that men have, who looks digusted when you tell him tales of all the sh1t you've put up with. Who says you're right to fight for equality. But who remains completely silent when it matters.

Once again at work I was made to put up with sexist comments, and once again the women stood alone against them. My boss is terrible for making sexist comments that he finds funny, and today he crossed the line and I felt I should say something back. Of course, what followed was a row in front of everyone where the only person who stood up to help me was the other girl in the office.

Every single one of the men sat there silently. Every one. Some of these men have told me in conversation that they believe in equal rights. They said they didn't think anyone should put up with anything purely because of their gender. But when that was called into question today, when they needed to show that they believed that, they sat there silently. I'm sick of this.

You are not believers in equal rights. You can sit there and talk the fcuking talk, but when you needed to stand up next to the women and tell my boss he was a complete fcuking b*stard, you didn't.

I was asked why women tried to fight for equality alone once. This is why. The majority of men don't give a fcuk when push comes to shove. They'll tell you they believe in equality and shure they won't complain about it if it arrives, but they won't fight for it.

So, silent majority of men: go fcuk yourselves.

P.S. I'm sorry to make my first post on Boards a rant, but I've been a long time lurker and I was made so angry today I just had to put it down somewhere.

Hmmm Damsel who wants men to fight for equal rights for her and stand up to her big mean boss. Interesting.

Silverfish

Wolflikeme wrote: »

Hmmm Damsel who wants men to fight for equal rights for her and stand up to her big mean boss. Interesting.

She already fought for herself, she wanted them to support her, not to fight on her behalf while she sat quietly, as your post implies.

Logical Fallacy

Mallei wrote: »

My boss said to the other girl who had done a good job that as a reward "maybe we'll get you a pole to dance round, though I think perhaps the lads will like that more!". Then he p1ssed himself laughing.

I have no idea about the structure in which you work but what is the practice around making complaints?

To be honest, your boss was way out of line but shouting at him there and then wasn't going to fix anything. Not saying this in an attempt to come off all holier and thou just saying if there is a complaints procedure you should really follow it up.

Edit : Just noticed there that your boss is the owner of the company, which undoubtedly puts you in a very tough spot. I would probably recommend to contact the Equality Authority and see what advice they would give you.

Otis Driftwood

Mallei wrote: »

I'm sick of the modern "feminist" man. The man who agrees with you in conversation that women should have every opportunity that men have, who looks digusted when you tell him tales of all the sh1t you've put up with. Who says you're right to fight for equality. But who remains completely silent when it matters.

Once again at work I was made to put up with sexist comments, and once again the women stood alone against them. My boss is terrible for making sexist comments that he finds funny, and today he crossed the line and I felt I should say something back. Of course, what followed was a row in front of everyone where the only person who stood up to help me was the other girl in the office.

Every single one of the men sat there silently. Every one. Some of these men have told me in conversation that they believe in equal rights. They said they didn't think anyone should put up with anything purely because of their gender. But when that was called into question today, when they needed to show that they believed that, they sat there silently. I'm sick of this.

You are not believers in equal rights. You can sit there and talk the fcuking talk, but when you needed to stand up next to the women and tell my boss he was a complete fcuking b*stard, you didn't.

I was asked why women tried to fight for equality alone once. This is why. The majority of men don't give a fcuk when push comes to shove. They'll tell you they believe in equality and shure they won't complain about it if it arrives, but they won't fight for it.

So, silent majority of men: go fcuk yourselves.

P.S. I'm sorry to make my first post on Boards a rant, but I've been a long time lurker and I was made so angry today I just had to put it down somewhere.

So your boss constantly makes sexist and derogatory comments but you and your female co-worker have not done anything about it,yet the men you work with are **** for also not doing anything about it?

Thats a bit much dont you think?Irish workers are some of the most protected in the world,there are countless laws in place to stop things like this happening however it is up to you or your co-worker to break the cycle.Im not going to patronise you by saying that I know how you feel,most men dont know what that feels like so it is up to you to do something about it.

Your first port of call should be here.Its how you go about making a complaint about harassment in the work place.At the very least you should ring or drop into your local citizens information centre for a chat and see if its a route you want to go down.

metrovelvet

Otis Driftwood wrote: »

So your boss constantly makes sexist and derogatory comments but you and your female co-worker have not done anything about it,yet the men you work with are **** for also not doing anything about it?

Thats a bit much dont you think?Irish workers are some of the most protected in the world,there are countless laws in place to stop things like this happening however it is up to you or your co-worker to break the cycle.Im not going to patronise you by saying that I know how you feel,most men dont know what that feels like so it is up to you to do something about it.

Your first port of call should be here.Its how you go about making a complaint about harassment in the work place.At the very least you should ring or drop into your local citizens information centre for a chat and see if its a route you want to go down.

Ireland is small country with an employers market. You start complaining, you start lawsuits and there is a VERY strong chance of being blacklisted or at the very least having a very hard time getting employed again.

vicwatson

Ireland is small country with an employers market. You start complaining, you start lawsuits and there is a VERY strong chance of being blacklisted or at the very least having a very hard time getting employed again.

Complete and utter tripe and rubbish. That's a quote from the 70's !:o