Orthotics...urghh...

shanesheridan

Helllllooo.

So my condition is; Im 24 male. In very good health and condition apart from poor knee's. Over a year ago I injured my knee after doing quite an easy 10k. I went to a physio and he told me that I needed to get orthotics to help me. I had poor leg muscles that weren't supporting my knee's and so I started squats and swimming and stopped running.
I never went to get orthotics as the place that was recommended to me Wellshod in kildare, had a waiting list of three months!!

Now, after the knee pain has returned (after mild running) and also some shin splint pain, I'm guessing I really need those orthotics after all.

I'm doing the Great Ireland Run in over a week, and can't see myself doing too well.

After ringing the orthotics place in Kildare again, I was told the earliest they can see me is late June.

Does anyone know any other highly recommended places to get orthotics, and any info about them (price you paid, how much you use them, worth the money, etc)????

If anyone has had similar problems I'd love some advice.

menoscemo

My first reaction is to go to a different Physio and get a second opinion. Physio's reccomending specific places for orthotics on your first visit are either on commission or else are a very poor physio.

frostfright

I use ones from this company, http://www.theorthoticgroup.com/TOG-Products-CustomOrthotics.html, i have the runflex ones, cost me €250 two years ago. My problems were hamstring strains and achilles tendons were so sore I couldn't even touch them! These orthotics sorted them out. I would wear them the whole time, my physio (based in north kilkenny) scanned my feet so I was not in direct contact with the company, got them in about 2 weeks if I remember rightly.

Fi H

I got mine from the Leinster clinic in Maynooth from David Kingston. I would recommend him as mine have made a huge difference to a number of issues and also because he makes orthotics for the hospitals aswell as for people referred by physio. He appears t o be highly qualified and regarded and I am very happy with mine

shanesheridan

Fi H.

How much were they?
I don't think my physio was trying to fob me off. He's a neighbour.

plodder

You could try off the shelf orthotics as well, that you'd buy in a pharmacy - a fraction of the price of custom ones. Can't guarantee they will suit you, but that's what I use and might be worth a try.

G-Money

I went to a physio guy and I asked him about orthotics. I'd been told by someone else that I needed them but I was a bit sceptical, so I got a 2nd opinion. The 2nd guy said I didn't need them yet, but even if I do, he recommends people buy them off the shelf. He said the moulded ones are often no use as they only take into account how your feet are when you are standing still. They don't consider how your feet move, land, take-off etc. Plus there's a huge markup in price on them when they in reality cost bout €80 to make.

I haven't went ahead and bought any yet as I don't need them for the time being, but I think I'd go with off the shelf ones initially if I did.

Mr Slow

During training last year for DCM I suffered with IT Band issues, went to a physio who charged me €60 and told me to come back on the following Monday to be fitted for Orthotics (along with another consultation fee and the cost of the orthotics themselves), I then found a good physio, who through IT Band stripping and foam rolling got me back to 100% for DCM. I have a Grid roller now that I use daily and have had no further issues. IMO there are lazy physios out there, you may well need orthotics but other avenues should be explored first.

menoscemo

shanesheridan wrote: »

I don't think my physio was trying to fob me off. He's a neighbour.

Just because he's your neighbour doesn't mean he is any good
As MrSlow says, further avenues should be explored before committing to orthotics.

elvis jones

I dealt with David Kingston last year and found him a gent. I believe it cost my 350

http://www.lcbl.ie/lcbl/about/index.html

token56

I'd second getting the opinion of another Physio. Not physio sees everything and there could be something you can do as an alternative.

Regarding Wellshod, while I know the waiting list is very long it is worth it in my opinion. I've only recently been dealing with them and they are great. The guy in there wont BS you. If he can help you he will, but if he thinks he can't or its something else you need he'll say it. He is definitely the most straightforward talking of people I've seen and I've seen quite a lot of different physios et all. My advice would be to hold out for him if you can but I know it wouldn't be easy or might not be possible.

itsalltrue

i ran the DCM last year and had problems with my calf and feet a few weeks later.

Ater Christmas it go so bad i couldn't run more than 4 miles.

Went to a physio in Portlaoise and he did tests and scans and said i needed orthotics if i wanted to run again.

I was talking with some friends in a running club and they told me to try a physio they know in Carlow.

I went to him and he put me in some off the shelf 3/4 insoles which i have to wear in all my shoes and recommend a new pair of runners. He also worked on my legs and back and i was running 5 miles by the end of the week. After 3 treatments (3 weeks) he had me back running correctly and i have been going well since then. I ran 12.5 miles last Saturday with no issue.

He charged me €60 for his time and the insoles were €40. I bought the new runners for €100.

The lad in Portlaoise wanted me to pay him €450 for orthotics and there was no treatment offered so the problems with my calves and back would have kept me out of action anyway

I would definitly get a 2nd opinion

G-Money

My own opinion would be to go to a physio who doesn't supply or provide orthotics. That way you don't have to worry about them saying you do need orthotics just to get some extra money out of you. I'm sure the vast majority are not like that but I think that's what I would prefer to do myself.

The guy I went to for physio says if he thinks people really need good orthotics, he sends them to this guy in Belgium. I don't remember the details but the guy in question makes proper orthotics after doing all sorts of scans on your feet and spine and how you move. From what I remember he said the Anderlecht football team were all seen to by this guy/clinic.

Also apparently he collects you from the airport in Belgium, does all the orthotics work, gives you TWO pairs of orthotics and drops you back to the airport in Belgium the same evening for €400. I'm not saying it's for everyone, but if someone really needs orthotics and needs to spend a few hundred euro, it would be something worth considering.

tendon

The problem with orthotics is that there is no research evidence out there that they play a role in reducing injuries or improving performance. Which is also the same for running shoes no evidence that expensive reduces injuries.

Bill Vincenzino is an australian professor who does alot of clinical and research work in the area. His basic point is that orthotics need to be comfortable and that is far more important than the mechanical support.

An excellent way to see if orthotics might help is to get your physio to low dye tape your foot and then send you on a run and see if it improves your symtoms. Low dye taping replicates what orthotics attempt to do but is free as part of your physio cost. If it helps you can be more confident about shelling out for orthotics

plodder

tendon wrote: »

His basic point is that orthotics need to be comfortable and that is far more important than the mechanical support.

On that point, anyone considering off the shelf orthotics should look at them closely before buying. I've bought some that turned out to be not that comfortable.

tendon

Good point most of the off the shelf ones are heat mouldable now.Obviously you need a heat gun(or maybe a hairdyrer and lots of patience!) but it allows you mould the orthotic to the foot more for comfort. If u use a heat gun it only takes less than 20 secs you dont want to overdo it as it genuinely melts!!

fiddy3

G-Money wrote: »

My own opinion would be to go to a physio who doesn't supply or provide orthotics. That way you don't have to worry about them saying you do need orthotics just to get some extra money out of you. I'm sure the vast majority are not like that but I think that's what I would prefer to do myself.

The guy I went to for physio says if he thinks people really need good orthotics, he sends them to this guy in Belgium. I don't remember the details but the guy in question makes proper orthotics after doing all sorts of scans on your feet and spine and how you move. From what I remember he said the Anderlecht football team were all seen to by this guy/clinic.

Also apparently he collects you from the airport in Belgium, does all the orthotics work, gives you TWO pairs of orthotics and drops you back to the airport in Belgium the same evening for €400. I'm not saying it's for everyone, but if someone really needs orthotics and needs to spend a few hundred euro, it would be something worth considering.

He also made orthotics for Paula Radcliffe, Saif Saeed Shaheen, Michael Ballack, among others, and is considered the best guy in europe, mainly because he doesn't just account for your feet, but scans your whole body for discrepancies. He actually runs the company and created the pads that measure the foot movement that is used by most orthotic suppliers. Many orthotics suppliers only take a cast of your foot and ignore the fact, for example, that your leg-length discrepancy (and almost everyone has one to some degree) might be because of your hip alignment rather than your legs. Another bonus is that they store all your measurements and, unless anything major changes with you, you can order the same ones (every 18months-2yrs is recommended) for 80 euro next time. His operation shows how much it actually costs to produce world class orthotics and how much several irish cowboys are ripping off customers.
-Also, i brought my irish orthotics to show him what i had been wearing (cost 350euro from frank sheahan in corbally) and he literally started laughing because they were so stiff and totally sh1t and not fit for anything more than a walk to the shops.

tendon

Its important to remember that orthotics are just a means to try to provide pain relief in a given situation just like any physical measure such as manipulation,taping soft tissue treatment etc. The idea that we have an ideal foot allignment has never been supported. Also feet that look terrible in standing and on force plates/scanners perform without problems when walking/running persumably because their muscle/neural system is operating well.

I think it is important to not get carried away with the idea that you can measure ideal foot mechanics because you cant. original Root concept ideas about orthotics which lots of people talk about was obsessed with the idea of a neutal foot position and this was what orthotics were aiming to do was to put your foot in this neutral position. Tom mcphoil published research in the 90s that showed that in normals with no symptoms peoples feet were never in this neutal position therefor why would you want to wear something in your shoe that would force you into an abnormal position?

That is not to say that orthotics dont have a good role. I fit people with them myself but only if I can improve their symptoms with a low dye tape first and then only with an orthotic that they feel is comfortable regardless of how it looks mechanically.

Where is the justification in paying 300 for orthotics and been told to hope that over the next 4-6 weeks they will help because your "mechanics look better" or scan better without been able to link that back to some degree of symptom relief there and then?

For everyone who the orthotic seems to help over 6 weeks you have unfortunately at least another person who is does nothing for. This is for the simple reason that the premise of orthotics improving mechanics and load on force plates has never been shown in a serious way to have effects on pain or performance. it is like the old days when everyone wore a collar for neck pain or a big corset for back pain. It helped some people but today everyone laughs at it and wonders how any medical professional could have been so stupid

Fi H

tendon wrote: »

Good point most of the off the shelf ones are heat mouldable now.Obviously you need a heat gun(or maybe a hairdyrer and lots of patience!) but it allows you mould the orthotic to the foot more for comfort. If u use a heat gun it only takes less than 20 secs you dont want to overdo it as it genuinely melts!!

You need to know what is wrong before you can fix it! trying to make your own orthotics could give you a bigger problem if you are trying to correct for the wrong thing.

From a personal perspective I have had lower back problems for years and problems with my hips following running that werent mentioned when I got orthotics because i was there due to plancar facitis. All of the problems cleared up within weeks of starting to use them so added bonuses.

OP i think mine were 250 for the orthotics and 50 for the visit

tendon

Fi H wrote: »

You need to know what is wrong before you can fix it! trying to make your own orthotics could give you a bigger problem if you are trying to correct for the wrong thing.

That is the whole point though if you make your orthotic comfortable that is the most important thing not the supposed "mechanical abnormality" you are trying to correct.

Great that your symptoms improved I was just trying to make the point that if you break all the impressive sounding jargon about orthotics down it comes down to comfort and change in symptoms that is evident in the clinic at the time not hoping for somrthing in the future.

dna_leri

tendon wrote: »

Good point most of the off the shelf ones are heat mouldable now.Obviously you need a heat gun(or maybe a hairdyrer and lots of patience!) but it allows you mould the orthotic to the foot more for comfort. If u use a heat gun it only takes less than 20 secs you dont want to overdo it as it genuinely melts!!

I use these, which I picked up on a trip to Sweden a few years ago. they can be heat moulded in a standard oven or see below from their website. There is a list of suppliers on the website also, zoom in on map for details.

SOLE footbeds are heat mouldable, as well as wear mouldable. If you want to mould your footbeds quickly, or put them into shoes with extremely narrow heels, or have very flat feet, heat moulding is the way to go. Otherwise, wear moulding only takes a few days of use and is the simplest way to get a custom fit.

Clearlier

I used Dave Kingston of LCBL too. €350 wasn't cheap and they needed replacing after about 2 years as the posts wear out and stability is lost. Fortunately I moved to Bournemouth shortly afterwards and found an orthotist there who replaced the posts for £20. Dave clearly knew what he was doing though and was happy to see me as many times as I needed to for adjustments to get them just right (probably took 7 or 8 goes as I adjusted). I wouldn't hesitate to go back to him.

spartaus

I have to agree with Tendon when he says that it is about comfort with Orthotics and that you need to link the pain with the correction you are making in the orthotic.

Orthotics should be very comfortable to wear while also correcting an imbalance whether thats high or low arch, heel spur etc.

I prescribe orthotics by doing a complete physical assesment of the client and once I am happy that orthotics are the answer and having explained my reasoning to the client, I laser scan the foot and have the orthotics manufactured from this along with any additional modifications needed.

I do not prescribe orthotics unless needed.

I also only charge €250 for these prescription Orthotics including the consultation. I believe thats a fair price

www.facebook.com/sportsinjury

2 Wheels Good

Kind of mentioned above, but as someone who's suffered from time to time from the feet to the shins it is worth seeing a physio who looks at an active solution (exercises, stretching etc) rather than a passive such as orthotics. Really think it's an easy out/money maker in a lot of cases. Orthotics should be a last resort.

Runningchoppz

Take a risk free approach and try Sole insoles yoursole.co.uk. Rather than spending £150-£300 for orthotics that may not help and are non-refundable, start with sole insoles, as they will give you 90 days to try them. If you're not comfortable they'll refund your money. My friend is sponsored by Sole while training for the London Marathon, and introduced me to them (Jo Pavey wears them too). I hope they bring out more footwear, because my heel pain and plantar fasciitis are long gone, and I can run so much further too.

Good luck

shanesheridan

Thanks for all the advice.

I've picked up some sports off the shelf orthotic insoles at my local pharmacy. (35 euro) I'll let u know how I get on.

I still have the assessment date in June booked. But hopefully I wont need it.

I wonder should I do the run on Sunday with them or without them??? (I'll be wearing them every day from today)

Runningchoppz

Go with your gut feeling. If you feel comfortable after a couple of days, Sunday's run should be fine. But don't push it, if you feel you have any irritations at all.

Best of luck with your run!

dave13

anyone have any recommendations for someone in the north Dublin city area (D1/3/7) who charges reasonable prices.I've tried off the shelf one's with little success and would like a professional opinion.

Runningchoppz

dave13 wrote: »

anyone have any recommendations for someone in the north Dublin city area (D1/3/7) who charges reasonable prices.I've tried off the shelf one's with little success and would like a professional opinion.

Not in North Dublin...just south, but I would highly recommend them, as they have a Sports Clinic. Here is the web address: http://www.irishfit.eu/shop/index.php?main_page=page&id=6&zenid=c1b774c8576e50a0a1ab59fe4a809a88
IrishFit Ltd
135 Ballyogan Rd
Carrickmines
Dublin 18, Dublin,
00353 1284 6107

Mr Slow

Runningchoppz wrote: »

Not in North Dublin...just south, but I would highly recommend them, as they have a Sports Clinic. Here is the web address: http://www.irishfit.eu/shop/index.php?main_page=page&id=6&zenid=c1b774c8576e50a0a1ab59fe4a809a88
IrishFit Ltd
135 Ballyogan Rd
Carrickmines
Dublin 18, Dublin,
00353 1284 6107

Add alert! 3 posts later.

Runningchoppz

FYI this was not an Ad. I'm sorry that I'm so keen, as I'm new to this forum and wanted to address the question asked by Dave13. Perhaps being helpful and offering answers to questions is frowned upon on this site? What a disappointing end to my first day on this site. For the record: I do not work for Irish Fit, but I do know Sean and his team, and think they would be an ideal resource.:(

stephendowney

I got Foot Balance insoles in Elverys on Suffolk Street. They are moulded to the arch of my feet so are a good alternative to Orthotics. They only cost €40 and made on the spot so were ready in a few minutes.

Very helpful staff in the shop, the guy spent a lot of time explaining the benefits of the insoles and also said that I could change my mind if I was not happy with them (Even after they are made). They can be reheated and used again.