What predator is likely to attack young lambs? How can I stop this happening?

kemen

I was out checking the sheep yesterday to notice 1 of my day old lambs was missing, so walked all round the feild to find the lamb beheaded as if it was cut with a knife. it defo wasnt a fox.. on the way back about 100 yards away from the body up got a buzzard from beside a small planted area. it does be seen about regularly.

would it be possible this could be the work of a buzzard? and if so how can it be stopped??

Half-cocked

No way a buzzard would attack something as big as a lamb. Buzzards mostly feed on small rodents, rabbits, insects and worms, occasionaly pheasants and ducks. He would have been scavenging from the lamb carcass.

tomcat220t

kemen wrote: »

I was out checking the sheep yesterday to notice 1 of my day old lambs was missing, so walked all round the feild to find the lamb beheaded as if it was cut with a knife. it defo wasnt a fox.. on the way back about 100 yards away from the body up got a buzzard from beside a small planted area. it does be seen about regularly.

would it be possible this could be the work of a buzzard? and if so how can it be stopped??

I owned a buzzard or two and never knew them to have any interest in lamb size pray .Buzzards were not to blame ,imo!

Glensman

A buzzard would/could easily go after new born lambs.
We are infested with them in our area, especially with the fact they aren't allowed to be shot (I really do mean infested).

I've seen buzzards take full-grown rabbits, smallish hares and attack full-grown pheasants.

I've also had farmers complain to me of buzzard attacks, they are rare on lambs, but do happen...

kemen

well if not a buzzard what else could it be?? these are only hoggets which the lambs are small!!

Is there anyway of getting rid of them from around the area?

Glensman

kemen wrote: »

well if not a buzzard what else could it be?? these are only hoggets which the lambs are small!!

Is there anyway of getting rid of them from around the area?

No legal method that I am aware of... It might be different in the 26, but they are protected up here.
Beautiful bird to see, but they are a nuisance when there are too many in one area.

kemen

Glensman wrote: »

No legal method that I am aware of... It might be different in the 26, but they are protected up here.
Beautiful bird to see, but they are a nuisance when there are too many in one area.

their protected here aswell!! had 1 in another farm of ours and he done a great job keeping crows away round bales!! but taking lambs is to far!!
At our shooting ground there was 3 hovering about 50 yards away from us over a plantin...

Glensman

kemen wrote: »

their protected here aswell!! had 1 in another farm of ours and he done a great job keeping crows away round bales!! but taking lambs is to far!!
At our shooting ground there was 3 hovering about 50 yards away from us over a plantin...

Lambs are def too far although you can't be 100% it was a buzzard. If you are a shooter though; they will do a lot of damage to game and ground game.

It's a shame the birds don't seem to fan out accross the countryside- they often focus in one area more than others...

Dusty87

A buzzard wouldn take the head off a lamb like a knife. Probably scavenging on the carcus

landkeeper

that's clap trap speaking as a sheep farmer and game rearer buzzards won't harm your lambs or game birds for that matter something killed your lamb or it died and then something eat the head
i reared pheasants for years with no trouble from buzzards in fact one year they nested in a big oak in one of the release pens
anyone who shoots buzzards thinking they are doing harm to game birds deserves to loose their licsence and get a massive fine
sparrowhawks will and do kill poults buzzards no in fact they do a good job on any shoot where you are feeding birds as they will mop up any rats on feed rides under feeders etc

tomcat220t

landkeeper wrote: »

that's clap trap speaking as a sheep farmer and game rearer buzzards won't harm your lambs or game birds for that matter something killed your lamb or it died and then something eat the head
i reared pheasants for years with no trouble from buzzards in fact one year they nested in a big oak in one of the release pens
anyone who shoots buzzards thinking they are doing harm to game birds deserves to loose their licsence and get a massive fine
sparrowhawks will and do kill poults buzzards no in fact they do a good job on any shoot where you are feeding birds as they will mop up any rats on feed rides under feeders etc

100% above!

Glensman

From another forum:

"I have seen a buzzard take pheasant poults from a ride adjacent to a release pen on 3 consecutive days. One also killed a woodie in my garden as I was leaving the house.
One buzzard or 2 regularly take rabbits from a field adjacent to the house. Finally, I shot a couple of pigeons one evening and placed them on a top hat feeder to collect on my way home. When I went to collect them, there was a buzzard feeding on the corpses. Buzzards like live prey despite what is said about their diet."

Cass

Moved to Farming & Forestry.

Birdnuts

kemen wrote: »

.

would it be possible this could be the work of a buzzard? and if so how can it be stopped??

Buzzards are not capable of killing a healthy lamb and no recorded cases have come to light in countries with much higher buzzard densities than us such as the UK. It is much more likely is was killed by some other predator(possibly mink)

Birdnuts

Glensman wrote: »

A buzzard would/could easily go after new born lambs.
We are infested with them in our area, especially with the fact they aren't allowed to be shot (I really do mean infested).

I've seen buzzards take full-grown rabbits, smallish hares and attack full-grown pheasants.

I've also had farmers complain to me of buzzard attacks, they are rare on lambs, but do happen...

There is no evidence to back up your rather wild claims:rolleyes:

Birdnuts

Glensman wrote: »

From another forum:

"I have seen a buzzard take pheasant poults from a ride adjacent to a release pen on 3 consecutive days. One also killed a woodie in my garden as I was leaving the house.
One buzzard or 2 regularly take rabbits from a field adjacent to the house. Finally, I shot a couple of pigeons one evening and placed them on a top hat feeder to collect on my way home. When I went to collect them, there was a buzzard feeding on the corpses. Buzzards like live prey despite what is said about their diet."

Idle internet speculation is not fact:mad:

reilig

Birdnuts wrote: »

Buzzards are not capable of killing a healthy lamb and no recorded cases have come to light in countries with much higher buzzard densities than us such as the UK. It is much more likely is was killed by some other predator(possibly mink)

A mink won't remove the head.
But a buzzard wouldn't either. Its possible that the buzzard was just around to feast on the leftovers after what killed the lamb had its fill.

To be honest, its likely to be a fox that got the lamb. They are hungry these days!!

Glensman

Birdnuts wrote: »

There is no evidence to back up your rather wild claims:rolleyes:

Well this is a forum so I don't think my experiences/opinions need to be backed up with evidence...

But I have seen myself, rabbits, hares and pheasants being taken by buzzards. It's not that much of a stretch for one to have taken a lamb. If you read back I said that there would be doubt whether a buzzard was the culprit in this case- I'm just saying it's possible.

I have also seen grey crows kill rabbits and hares, a grey crow is a lot smaller than a buzzard.
On the other side of the coin I once watched a buzzard to battle with 2 crows for a good half hour, the crows looked to have the upper-hand through most of the exchange...

My 'claims' are not at all 'wild' I spend a great deal of my time in the outdoors in an area that has a Lot of buzzards.

Glensman

Birdnuts wrote: »

Idle internet speculation is not fact:mad:

The OP asked if it was possible for a day old hoggot to be killed by a buzzard.
Noone at anytime said that a buzzard did do it as fact, I am only saying that from my experience it would be possible.

A couple of posts came up saying that buzzards wouldn't even take game; I said that I have seen this and also copied in text from another forum that I happened to be reading at the same time where someone else had said they had seen similar.

A buzzard is a bird of prey; in areas where they are prevelant (like North Antrim) they are thought of by game shooters and rearers as a threat- much like foxes. I shoot for sheep farmers who hate them, as well as sheep farmers who adore them as they love looking at them...

Birdnuts

Glensman wrote: »

. If you are a shooter though; they will do a lot of damage to game and ground game.

..

Theres no evidence for that eitheir - buzzards main food is carrion and mammals up to the seize of a rabbit. Rogue Sparrowhawks occaisionally cause problems but losses rarly exceed 5% compared to much larger losses from disease, bad weather, mink, fox etc.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=68323487&postcount=32

This has been discussed before and the above is taken from the British Association of Shooters and Conservationests

Birdnuts

kemen wrote: »

well if not a buzzard what else could it be?? these are only hoggets which the lambs are small!!

Is there anyway of getting rid of them from around the area?

There not a threat to your lambs so whats your problem

PS: Indeed buzzards are the farmers friends given the number of rats, rabbits and corvids they go through in the averge year!!

Birdnuts

Glensman wrote: »

Well this is a forum so I don't think my experiences/opinions need to be backed up with evidence...

.

Says it all:rolleyes:

Glensman

Birdnuts wrote: »

Says it all:rolleyes:

And what is it that you think it says?

I think you have missed the point somewhere along the line of what a discussion forum actually is...

rambo87

I saw a Buzzard fighting with a cock pheasant during the snow/ shooting ban.
Unbelievable sight... the cock won because the buzzard flew off... im not sure if he was trying to eat the pheasant but it definitely was an attack.
Foxes often chew the heads of rabbits/ hares first before eating the rest... ive found decapitated hares... go lamping and see what eyes you get.. (ive seen the buzzards in the lamp aswell) and youll be able to tell whats doing the damage. Use a caller

Birdnuts

Glensman wrote: »

deal of my time in the outdoors in an area that has a Lot of buzzards.

So do I, plus I shoot and have helped people rearing gamebirds in the past and still know a number of gamekeepers - little or nothing in my 20 years experience of such things backs up anything you've said in this thread. Indeed wild pheasants appear to have had a bumper breeding season last year in these parts and the buzzard population equally has never been higher!!

The_Conductor

Guys, I am 'this' close to closing the thread.
Constructive posts please, of relevance to the OP.

kemen

Birdnuts wrote: »

There not a threat to your lambs so whats your problem

PS: Indeed buzzards are the farmers friends given the number of rats, rabbits and corvids they go through in the averge year!!

i just dont want them around my land in the off chance that they will take a new born!! is there any way to scare them away??
@rambo mr.fox shouldnt be a problem he's been well taken care off in the last few months!!

any other suggestions on what it could of been?

The_Conductor

Kemen- to be perfectly honest- even magpies are more likely to attack lambs, than buzzards- however I very much doubt either would be involved in beheading a lamb.......

In the event of finding a lamb beheaded- unless I had serious annecdotal evidence that a predator (be it animal or bird) was involved- I'd suspect human intervention.

Google- 'predator beheading lamb'- and this thread is in second place of the search results. This shows you just how unlikely an occurrence this is......... Beheading of a lamb is incredibly uncommon in practice.

Birdnuts

kemen wrote: »

i just dont want them around my land in the off chance that they will take a new born!! ?

Are you worried about UFO's swiping them too:rolleyes: - you just sounding ridicolous now given what has already been discussed in this thread. Indeed I suspect you have a hidden agenda against this protected and harmless species:mad:

johngalway

I reckon it's a fox. Just because lads are controlling them doesn't mean that they're not around.

kemen

Birdnuts wrote: »

Are you worried about UFO's swiping them too:rolleyes: - you just sounding ridicolous now given what has already been discusses in this forum. Indeed I suspect you have a hidden agenda against this protected and harmless species:mad:

yeah i think scotty has it in for me!! i just asked a simple question if the bird was possible of doing such a thing, which is no in alot of posters veiws and wanted to know what else it could be so i can prevent it happening again....

kemen

johngalway wrote: »

I reckon it's a fox. Just because lads are controlling them doesn't mean that they're not around.

maybe it was but if it was a fox, would it not have brought body and all? i seen a fox last year bring a lamb in the direction of its den, would this 1 not do the same?

johngalway

kemen wrote: »

maybe it was but if it was a fox, would it not have brought body and all? i seen a fox last year bring a lamb in the direction of its den, would this 1 not do the same?

Nope, not necessarily. Some will only take the front half of the lamb, and come back for the rear end another night.

Birdnuts

kemen wrote: »

yeah i think scotty has it in for me!! i just asked a simple question if the bird was possible of doing such a thing, which is no in alot of posters veiws and wanted to know what else it could be so i can prevent it happening again....

Its obviously a fox or possibly a stray dog - go lamping or if you want to be 100%, keep newborns indoors or in the yard if possible for a few days. I do this myself with my small holding in Mayo which I share with the father in law(a seriously good sheep man btw!!)

kemen

Birdnuts wrote: »

Its obviously a fox or possibly a stray dog - go lamping or if you want to be 100%, keep newborns indoors or in the yard if possible for a few days. I do this myself with my small holding in Mayo which I share with the father in law(a seriously good sheep man btw!!)

maybe...

would have them in but last time we but big number of hoggets in the shed alot aborted due to toxo so have to battle on outdoors this year...:o

thanks for your imput

Birdnuts

kemen wrote: »

maybe...

would have them in but last time we but big number of hoggets in the shed alot aborted due to toxo so have to battle on outdoors this year...:o

thanks for your imput

That tends to arise if you keep them inside for a prolonged period of time - I'm talking more about a quick rotation since once a lamb(depending on breed) is more then a few days old and is healthy it is generally safe from most potential predators apart from foxes/dogs.

Username John

Birdnuts wrote: »

Its obviously a fox or possibly a stray dog

Birdnuts wrote: »

keep newborns indoors or in the yard if possible for a few days.

Birdnuts wrote: »

once a lamb is more then a few days old and is healthy it is generally safe from most potential predators apart from foxes/dogs.

So, keep em inside, but for no real benefit

Given the opinion is that it is a fox or a dog, what are the options open to someone now to deal with this? Just shooting is it?

Traonach

kemen wrote: »

maybe...

would have them in but last time we but big number of hoggets in the shed alot aborted due to toxo so have to battle on outdoors this year...:o

thanks for your imput

Why don't you vaccinate against Toxoplasmosis?

johngalway

Username John wrote: »

Given the opinion is that it is a fox or a dog, what are the options open to someone now to deal with this? Just shooting is it?

Options for fox:
Shooting, snaring, lurchers, terriers, live catch cage.

Dogs can be legally shot if worrying sheep. There was a thread on it lately I'll see if I can find it. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056216761

The above thread was locked for a reason (suggesting illegal solutions), I post it for informational purposes ONLY and don't want to see it re-started here.

Birdnuts

Username John wrote: »

So, keep em inside, but for no real benefit

Given the opinion is that it is a fox or a dog, what are the options open to someone now to deal with this? Just shooting is it?

He said they were newborn - obviously newborns are more vulnerable to the likes of Grey crows, mink etc.(which can be dealt with by shooting and trapping) which is why I suggested temperory housing for young lambs to reduce this potential source of loss - I thought my post was fairly clear on that point

And yes lamping/shooting is the best way of dealing with rogue dogs/foxes

Username John

Birdnuts wrote: »

He said they were newborn - obviously newborns are more vulnerable to the likes of Grey crows, mink etc.(which can be dealt with by shooting and trapping) which is why I suggested temperory housing for young lambs to reduce this potential source of loss - I thought my post was fairly clear on that point

No, I hear what yer saying re mink and crows, been there myself re the crows...

Birdnuts wrote: »

Its obviously a fox or possibly a stray dog - go lamping or if you want to be 100%, keep newborns indoors or in the yard if possible for a few days.

Birdnuts wrote: »

I'm talking more about a quick rotation since once a lamb(depending on breed) is more then a few days old and is healthy it is generally safe from most potential predators apart from foxes/dogs.

But I would have thought the above two posts contradict themselves?
Given your opinion it is a dog or fox, and also in your opinion keeping them in for a few days doesnt help against these predators, it would appear keeping them in would serve no use for the OP in this instance. Which is why I commented.

kemen

Traonach wrote: »

Why don't you vaccinate against Toxoplasmosis?

no good... what ever virus it is is in the shed.. no matter what disinfectent is used the problem stays.. so maybe time will help

kemen

thanks for the imput lads.. fox maybe... i've never seen a mink in the area but i will have to look into it.

pakalasa

I dont have sheep, but.......was just wondering.

Up to what age are lambs in danger from predators in Ireland, be they foxes, mink etc (not including dogs of course)?

Would it not be worth keeping the sheep and lambs indoors at night until they reach this age?

The_Conductor

pakalasa wrote: »

I dont have sheep, but.......was just wondering.

Up to what age are lambs in danger from predators in Ireland, be they foxes, mink etc (not including dogs of course)?

Would it not be worth keeping the sheep and lambs indoors at night until they reach this age?

Any age- to be honest. A dog might chase perfectly healthy sheep purely for the thrill of the chase- but unless you got to them pronto and gave them a shot of calcium serum, that would be it for the sheep- an agonising death.

Its really not reasonable to try to bring sheep in at night (and in any case- you can't presume predation is purely a nighttime occurrence). I don't know if you've ever helped rounding up sheep, its emmmm- interesting.......

In areas of high predation- which contrary to what you'd believe from reading this thread- are actually few and far between- the best way a farmer can protect his flock is by cross breeding with sheep varieties that have good flocking instincts (funny though it may sound- many breeds do not habitually flock). Its lone animals, along with those who are injured or are in distress who are most likely to be attacked by predators.

Username John

pakalasa wrote: »

I dont have sheep, but.......was just wondering.

Up to what age are lambs in danger from predators in Ireland, be they foxes, mink etc (not including dogs of course)?

Would it not be worth keeping the sheep and lambs indoors at night until they reach this age?

Anything over 3 days is the rule we follow. We'd usually put em out in groups, so some could be 5 to 7 days old, and some would be 3 days. But if they were looking any bit slow at the 3 days, we'd keep em in a bit longer.

As for brining em every night - bringing in the sheep isnt too bad, they know where to go. Bringing in lambs is a pure dose, they have no sense and run everywhere... Then the sheep get all excited...
When we're moving the sheep & lambs between fields for the first time, its a major operation. Walk the ditches, looking for lambs that'd be lying in some nice cosy spot, try to keep em with the sheep. Then, most likely a group of lambs will take a a notion of running off, cos they can... The sheep will bolt for the fresh grass. Thats generally when the shouting starts

We've never had a problem with foxes, even though I know we have foxes. We have more problems with the hounds coming through to "help us with our fox problem" than we do with the foxes themselves...
Mink - never had an issue with either.

Traonach

kemen wrote: »

no good... what ever virus it is is in the shed.. no matter what disinfectent is used the problem stays.. so maybe time will help

So your not sure it's toxoplasmosis that's causing the abortion.. Maybe a lab post mortem on the dead lamb(s) would give a correct etiology on the pathogen causing the abortion. Then you would be able better to control the abortion.

2smokinbarrels

could be a rouge dog maybe just a guess, I seen them attacking sheep while lambing purely to get at the new born.
as I said just a guess stalk the place for a couple of nights and lamp as much as you can the fact the coulprate killed means its most likely still around or maybe on the next farm.