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Domain Registar Extortion

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    #32
    CptSternn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,530 ✭✭✭CptSternn


    Just a quick update- PublicDomainRegistry is based in Columbia, which makes any sort of complaints or legal action pretty much impossible due to their total lack of legislation regarding this sort of thing.

    http://publicdomainregistry.com/legal/


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    #33
    jmcc
    Registered Users Posts: 7,327 ✭✭✭jmcc


    CptSternn wrote: »
    Some whois results just seem to post:

    Registration Service Provided By: WEB WORLD IRELAND
    It depends on what whois client you are using. Some will show the full registry level data (what I quoted above) along with the whois data. Basically this is because the registry has just the thin whois content and redirects the query to the registrar's own whois server for the full data.

    With some domains you get this kind of set up :
    Registry (Verisign etc)
    |
    Registrars (Blacknight, Godaddy etc)
    |
    Resellers (Smaller hosters / web developers providing clients with domains services.)
    |
    Registrant/domain owner.

    The nameservers used by a domain name are not necessarily those of the registrar of a domain name. Domaintools is a good site but you have to know what you are looking at and it helps to have a full subscription (the registrar history is subscribers-only from what I remember).

    Regards...jmcc


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    #34
    jmcc
    Registered Users Posts: 7,327 ✭✭✭jmcc


    CptSternn wrote: »
    Just a quick update- PublicDomainRegistry is based in Columbia, which makes any sort of complaints or legal action pretty much impossible due to their total lack of legislation regarding this sort of thing.

    http://publicdomainregistry.com/legal/
    Try this one - it might be more productive:

    http://publicdomainregistry.com/support/

    Regards...jmcc


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    #35
    CptSternn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,530 ✭✭✭CptSternn


    jmcc wrote: »
    Try this one - it might be more productive:

    http://publicdomainregistry.com/support/

    Regards...jmcc

    I saw that and did that - it just gives you the email listed for the admin contact, which in this case is the same person who is having the problem.

    There is no contact information whatsoever for the company itself. The only hint at their location is in the TOS which has the country where litigation will be handled, which is listed as the home country of the company PublicDomainRegistry - Columbia.


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    #36
    mneylon
    Registered Users Posts: 7,739 ✭✭✭mneylon


    If you're having issues with getting a domain released from a DirectI reseller email me ALL the details directly and I'll ping their CEO.

    regards

    Michele

    Blog | Tweets



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    #37
    tnethacker
    Registered Users Posts: 124 ✭✭tnethacker


    Blacknight wrote: »
    If you're having issues with getting a domain released from a DirectI reseller email me ALL the details directly and I'll ping their CEO.

    regards

    Michele

    Hi Michele,

    I am the lad having problems now with ALL my domains, including my customers domains and we are now seeking attention from the law. I will sue WW and so does my customers.

    Is there a way you could help us get all our domains back including the fivexs.com/net/org?

    I would be grateful for any help.

    I just sent you email if you can help us move all our domains to blacknight.


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    #38
    tnethacker
    Registered Users Posts: 124 ✭✭tnethacker


    CptSternn wrote: »
    I saw that and did that - it just gives you the email listed for the admin contact, which in this case is the same person who is having the problem.

    There is no contact information whatsoever for the company itself. The only hint at their location is in the TOS which has the country where litigation will be handled, which is listed as the home country of the company PublicDomainRegistry - Columbia.

    Tried them as well. They just kept on sending me emails back saying i should deal with ww


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    #39
    tnethacker
    Registered Users Posts: 124 ✭✭tnethacker


    So. We are now gonna go with legal proceedings with this company as they locked all my customers domains (and i don't even own them).

    I am hoping that everyone will stay away from this company as i was warned about them before i signed up as their customer, but i didn't listen at that point. I am not the only one they've done this to.


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    #40
    Digitaljunkie
    Registered Users Posts: 349 ✭✭Digitaljunkie


    kbannon wrote: »
    You were interpreting it as a way of taking crap rather than investing time and effort into somehting that possibly would not be a positive move for a business.

    You are ignoring my point that we don't know the full details of this case - we only know one side. As with many threads like this one, the OP may not have given us the full details.

    Secondly, pursuing a sum like 7.5k can often cost much the same rendering it a win strictly speaking but given the time and effort involved, a loss.

    Also you are not privvy to the contract between the host and the OPs client. How do you know whether something done was illegal and caused the OPs client to lose out?

    Agree - that could be the issue, if for instance say a domain company offered a domain for say €9.99 that was for sale for €500 else where. The domain company sometimes will give terms and conditions regarding using their own hosting facilities only in return for the cheaper price.


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    #41
    CptSternn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,530 ✭✭✭CptSternn


    Digitaljunkie wrote: »
    Agree - that could be the issue, if for instance say a domain company offered a domain for say €9.99 that was for sale for €500 else where. The domain company sometimes will give terms and conditions regarding using their own hosting facilities only in return for the cheaper price.

    Thats not the case here. This crowd just does hosting and domain registration. They charge treble what other crowds are charging. My client went to them as he Googled and years ago it was the first result. He is not very techno savy and signed up for their services. There was nothing special about his domain or website, it was a two page website with one single picture on it with a small bit of contact info.

    They were charging him €500 a year, but later dropped it to €250 a year. I told him we could transfer the registration and he could get the whole thing registered and hosted each year for under €50, which is what we did.

    Web World refused to unlock the domain at first. After multiple phone calls they did, but then played stupid when we requested the authorisation code needed for the transfer. After three weeks of wrangling on the phone they finally emailed it to us, the day before the domain expired and the hosting package needed renewal.

    In the case above by the other user, they held on to it until it expired and are now looking for a large lump sum of cash before they will do anything with the domain. They are basically saying if he doesn't pay for renewal on all of the current accounts, they won't transfer it. Since it is expired they are in a legal gray area, but the only problem is he put the request in, like I did, prior to the renewal date passing - they intentionally stalled until it passed and now want a few hundred quid to renew it so he can transfer it.

    It's a scam. It's not a new scam, as I current host about 75 website worldwide. Each one I transfered in from some other registrar. I have seen this many times, but usually it is some discount retailer in some small country. Actually American companies were really bad about this years ago but new legislation brought it made it a crime there, so you don't see it in the US anymore. Web World is using a registrar in Columbia which makes it all the more murky if there is a problem.

    My advise is to contact ICANN directly and file a complaint. I had to do this before. You can have their registrar accreditation pulled. They will look into this and get it sorted, but it takes a long while sure.


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    #42
    mneylon
    Registered Users Posts: 7,739 ✭✭✭mneylon


    CptSternn wrote: »
    My advise is to contact ICANN directly and file a complaint. I had to do this before. You can have their registrar accreditation pulled. They will look into this and get it sorted, but it takes a long while sure.
    That's not correct.

    You can lodge a complaint with the sponsoring registrar and / or with ICANN, but you cannot affect an accreditation that does not exist

    Blog | Tweets



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    #43
    CptSternn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,530 ✭✭✭CptSternn


    Blacknight wrote: »
    That's not correct.

    You can lodge a complaint with the sponsoring registrar and / or with ICANN, but you cannot affect an accreditation that does not exist

    Don't be pedantic. If you file a complaint with ICANN they will remove whatever entities rights that exist to keep it from registering any more domains.

    Just because Blacknight is the only 'accredited' registrar in Ireland means absolutely nothing, since dozens of other companies offer registrar services here in Ireland.

    I'm not worried about any 'official accreditation', I was obviously referring to a companies ability to engage in the business of registering domains and filing a complaint with ICANN will remedy that situation.


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    #44
    mneylon
    Registered Users Posts: 7,739 ✭✭✭mneylon


    CptSternn wrote: »
    Don't be pedantic. If you file a complaint with ICANN they will remove whatever entities rights that exist to keep it from registering any more domains.

    I'm not being pedantic - I'm stating facts

    ICANN do NOT have a contract with entities that are not accredited. So they cannot "remove" anything
    CptSternn wrote: »
    Just because Blacknight is the only 'accredited' registrar in Ireland means absolutely nothing, since dozens of other companies offer registrar services here in Ireland.
    They offer registration services. We are the only company that has a contract with ICANN and with the domain registries.
    That means that we are directly bound by contract with ICANN.
    CptSternn wrote: »
    I'm not worried about any 'official accreditation', I was obviously referring to a companies ability to engage in the business of registering domains and filing a complaint with ICANN will remedy that situation.
    If it was that simple everyone's lives would be so much more pleasant

    The reality is that if someone has an issue with a registrar they can lodge a complaint with ICANN if the registrar is not responsive. (I mentioned that previously)
    However if the company offering domain registration services is not a registrar then ICANN do not have any direct contact with that company. They can pass the complaint back to the sponsoring registrar to get it resolved.
    And not all issues will be resolved nor will that happen that quickly in many cases.
    If a registrar (not a reseller) is constantly appearing as a subject of complaints then ICANN might be able to take action against them, but it's a long process.

    If you look at http://www.icann.org/en/compliance/ (and http://www.icann.org/en/compliance/notices-archive-en.htm )which is where you'll see all the breach notices sent by ICANN to registrars you'll find that the bulk of them are for non-payment of fees.

    Blog | Tweets



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    #45
    CptSternn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,530 ✭✭✭CptSternn


    Blacknight wrote: »
    I'm not being pedantic - I'm stating facts

    ICANN do NOT have a contract with entities that are not accredited. So they cannot "remove" anything

    But they can go after whoever they are reselling for, and the issue will be resolved. I know, I have done this and it worked well. To insinuate there is no legal recourse when working with a reseller is simply not true.
    They offer registration services. We are the only company that has a contract with ICANN and with the domain registries.
    That means that we are directly bound by contract with ICANN.

    Again, who cares? ICANN will step in and the problem will be sorted. It doesn't matter if they go after the reseller or the company which the reseller is working for, the issue will be resolved.
    If it was that simple everyone's lives would be so much more pleasant

    The reality is that if someone has an issue with a registrar they can lodge a complaint with ICANN if the registrar is not responsive. (I mentioned that previously)
    However if the company offering domain registration services is not a registrar then ICANN do not have any direct contact with that company. They can pass the complaint back to the sponsoring registrar to get it resolved.
    And not all issues will be resolved nor will that happen that quickly in many cases.
    If a registrar (not a reseller) is constantly appearing as a subject of complaints then ICANN might be able to take action against them, but it's a long process.

    If you look at http://www.icann.org/en/compliance/ (and http://www.icann.org/en/compliance/notices-archive-en.htm )which is where you'll see all the breach notices sent by ICANN to registrars you'll find that the bulk of them are for non-payment of fees.

    It's a long process either way, but you will get results no matter if it is an company with whatever it is ye claim to have or a reseller for that company.

    Your comments here are by no means helpful and a bit spiteful. Is this the level of service an 'officially accredited' registrar shows to users? Falsely telling them they have no recourse against bad acting companies, when there is plenty of information to prove otherwise?

    ICANN will sort it out, thats what they do.


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    #46
    tnethacker
    Registered Users Posts: 124 ✭✭tnethacker


    CptSternn wrote: »
    But they can go after whoever they are reselling for, and the issue will be resolved. I know, I have done this and it worked well. To insinuate there is no legal recourse when working with a reseller is simply not true.



    Again, who cares? ICANN will step in and the problem will be sorted. It doesn't matter if they go after the reseller or the company which the reseller is working for, the issue will be resolved.



    It's a long process either way, but you will get results no matter if it is an company with whatever it is ye claim to have or a reseller for that company.

    Your comments here are by no means helpful and a bit spiteful. Is this the level of service an 'officially accredited' registrar shows to users? Falsely telling them they have no recourse against bad acting companies, when there is plenty of information to prove otherwise?

    ICANN will sort it out, thats what they do.

    Hi CptnSternn,

    Blacknight is correct here. I have now multiple domains which WW doesn't allow me to move onto Blacknight. So, after countless emails and even a legal threat, WW hasn't given me back my domains.

    If you pay for your domain, it's yours. As simple as that. Blacknight is telling here that ICANN can't directly help as WW is not accredited registrar - meaning theyre a reseller of a reseller.

    So, i contacted their upper level domain management company and showed them that i've paid for all those domains and that they're not giving me the right to do with my domains what i wan't to do.

    WW has been given 48 hour notice to give back my domains yesterday morning at 7 AM. If they do not comply with the T&C from the upper level accredited registrar, they can now possibly lose their right to resell domains.

    I suggest you contact them as well and show them that your client has paid for their bills and that you're being extorted now. Directi will give your client their rights to the domain back.

    TL:DR: Blacknight is right here. Contact compliance@publicdomainregistry with a copy of the paid bills and ask them to allow you to transfer the domain. As for ICANN, yeah, sure, they'll handle the case. Some day. In the future possibly.

    Blacknight - thanks for the help so far :) I'm getting my own domains and my clients domains back by tomorrow hopefully :D


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