Is It Racist To Oppose Free Immigration?

UsernameInUse

The entire population of the world today could be housed in Texas, in single-story, single-family houses – four people to a house – and with a typical garden around each home. Do the math: 7,438,152,268,800 square feet in Texas, divided by the world population of roughly 6,600,000,000, equals 1,126 square feet per person. And in terms of population density, Texas would still be less crowded than the Bronx is today.

I consider the free movement of people to be a basic human right. It is what made the United States such a prosperous country back in the early parts of the twentieth century. Surely you can't oppose people who just want to make a better life for themselves...if even on compassionate grounds.

John Lennon would be proud - so why all the xenophobia?

karlog

Texas is a sh*thole.

giant_midget

In theory yes...but in an economy like Irelands is and is going to be for the next couple of years NO...We need to start looking after our own people. This country needs to have some sort of cap on immigration..we do not need un-skilled eastern europeans or criminal nigerians.

smokedeels

sigh... nobody else? ok so.... dey took er jerbs!!!!!

giant_midget

smokedeels wrote: »

sigh... nobody else? ok so.... dey took er jerbs!!!!!

:rolleyes: sigh..."they took our jerbs" wow...the most overused phrase in AH :rolleyes:

Dravokivich

smokedeels wrote: »

sigh... nobody else? ok so.... dey took er jerbs!!!!!

the idea is that we send'em off to take other peoples jobs...

Captain_Generic

giant_midget wrote: »

..we do not need un-skilled eastern europeans or criminal nigerians.

The smiley face doesn't really make that statement any better

28064212

One problem OP. It requires every country in the world to open their borders at the same time.

smokedeels

giant_midget wrote: »

:rolleyes: sigh..."they took our jerbs" wow...the most overused phrase in AH :rolleyes:

Exactly my point, but somebody had to do it.

:rolleyes: <---- The most overused smilie? At least I communicate with words.

Funkfield

giant_midget wrote: »

:rolleyes: sigh..."they took our jerbs" wow...the most overused phrase in AH :rolleyes:

dey took yore ma's atari jaguar and blasted her in the face with piss!

bigwormbundoran

giant_midget wrote: »

we do not need un-skilled eastern europeans or criminal nigerians.

This right here is racist


Opposing 100% free immigration however may not be, though I myself support it because I dont think any one person should get a better chance of living a happy life based simply on where they come from

ejmaztec

Dravokivich wrote: »

the idea is that we send'em off to take other peoples jobs...

The Texans' jobs apparently

UsernameInUse

28064212 wrote: »

One problem OP. It requires every country in the world to open their borders at the same time.

Not necessarily.

The EU's border are open for European countries. If a bilateral agreement was struck with say, Australia, NZ and Canada, Japan and the U.S (:pac:), then that would be making some progress...

Sergeant

Mass immigration in the past usually involved a large army and the subjugation of the people in the area which was invaded.

Morlar

If you had the exact same level of benefits and cost of living in every single country on earth it might work. Otherwise it will be to the detriment of countries with more generous benefits and negatively impact the people of those countries.

28064212

UsernameInUse wrote: »

Not necessarily.

The EU's border are open for European countries. If a bilateral agreement was struck with say, Australia, NZ and Canada, Japan and the U.S (:pac:), then that would be making some progress...

That would be completely unworkable. There would be mass immigration to those countries with virtually no outflow

Dudess

It would be the ideal, but not all countries have the resources - and if it becomes a reality for a country that cannot sustain it, then that will only LEAD to racism.

insufferable nurd

giant_midget wrote: »

In theory yes...but in an economy like Irelands is and is going to be for the next couple of years NO...We need to start looking after our own people. This country needs to have some sort of cap on immigration..we do not need un-skilled eastern europeans or criminal nigerians.

hahaaa midget , you are so blunt, like gráinne with the coniferous cúnt ooohh you say it with a smile, crocodile ohh yesh it makes me happpyyy...

twinQuins

Depends on why the person opposing it opposes it.

Eric Cartman

Im all for immigration , diversity is quite a good thing in societies , and dont discriminate against any race coming here , But I think there should be conditions to it like a 10-15 year social welfare ban , not letting in anyone convicted of violent crime, drug trafficing, fraud, war crimes, espionage etc... and a system like australia where a minimum amount of money and a job secured before you enter the country

also on the topic of getting jobs - inscentives should be given to employers to take an Irish person on social welfare instead of somebody from a foreign country

edit : also any immigrant must accept a large part of our culture - learn to speak english , dont expect special treatment in schools, no wearing of full burkahs etc..

CokaColumbo

No it certainly is not racist. I would be in favour of free emigration if the ROI did not provide such an extensive welfare state for immigrants. What we have at the moment though is a system in which an immigrant can come to Ireland, do very little work (if any), and enjoy a standard of living which far surpasses what he/she is able to experience back in their own country.

The type of immigrant which I want to see is one who comes to Ireland to work hard and respect the country and its native inhabitants. I don't want an immigrant to come here in order to live a sedentary or degenerate lifestyle at other people's expense. That said, my sentiment applies to Irish degenerates also and I personally disagree with the welfare state in general.

blaze1

but you'd get the odd lucky fecker who had a oil reserve in his back garden

Fremen

UsernameInUse wrote: »

The entire population of the world today could be housed in Texas, in single-story, single-family houses – four people to a house – and with a typical garden around each home.

The earth is big. Space is abundant. The biggest factor in determining how large a population can grow is the most scarce resource. It's pretty clear this isn't physical space.

You have to provide food and water for all those people, first and foremost. Once you have that, you need power, sanitation, transport, healthcare.

When a population grows beyond what a given infastructure can handle, things get very messy. Look at Rio, New Dehli, and other overcrowded cities.

It's not at all racist to oppose immigration for pragmatic or economic reasons.

MrThrifty

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Im all for immigration , diversity is quite a good thing in societies , and dont discriminate against any race coming here , But I think there should be conditions to it like a 10-15 year social welfare ban , not letting in anyone convicted of violent crime, drug trafficing, fraud, war crimes, espionage etc... and a system like australia where a minimum amount of money and a job secured before you enter the country

Here, here! The problem with free immigration here at the moment is that there appear to be NO controls at all. There are people with serious criminal records from some EU countries coming here, continuing their criminal activities (drugs) and at the same time claiming social welfare. You have to laugh at the setup here when you compare it to Australia or Canada border controls.

Nodin

UsernameInUse wrote: »

Is It Racist To Oppose Free Immigration?

No. However checks on individuals are nessecary.

UsernameInUse

Nodin wrote: »

No. However checks on individuals are nessecary.

Well, that's a given but we're turning away hard working citizens.

Remember - Microsoft, Apple and Facebook were all co-founded by immigrants.

Chaotic_Forces

Fu*k that. Ireland should be for the Irish only! We should only use Irish goods, made in Ireland, by the Irish. Fu*k anyone else.

I wonder if anyone else agrees?

UsernameInUse

Chaotic_Forces wrote: »

Fu*k that. Ireland should be for the Irish only! We should only use Irish goods, made in Ireland, by the Irish. Fu*k anyone else.

I wonder if anyone else agrees?

Free Market Buddha would be disappointed with you. For shame.

Chaotic_Forces

UsernameInUse wrote: »

Free Market Buddha would be disappointed with you. For shame.

I was being sarcastic since I'd wager a lot of people who say rubbish like "immigrant outs" and so on don't realise we're screwed without foreign help.

Mike 1972

UsernameInUse wrote: »

Remember - Microsoft, Apple and Facebook were all co-founded by immigrants.

On the other hand Immigrants have done some good things too :pac:

UsernameInUse

Mike 1972 wrote: »

On the other hand Immigrants have done some good things too :pac:

lulz

ElaElaElano

Even only going only as far back as five years ago, it was only the 'unskilled eastern Europeans' (ps most Poles/Czechs working here are very much overqualified for the work they're doing) and other migrants to Ireland who bothered to do the menial work. Everyone else was too good for it, apparently. Now that our economy and indeed economies across the world have crashed, people are pointing fingers at them because they're easy targets.

Degenerates are degenerates if they're from Ukraine or Nigeria, Ballsbridge or Ballymun. A mentality doesn't exist because of your nationality, it exists because of who you are the values you choose to follow.

I have a lot of foreign friends living here and frankly, they work a lot fúcking harder than ANY Irish person I know. Still, of course, they're subjected to casual racism a dozen times a week from clueless idiots.

Let's also bear in mind our long history of emigration- to America, to Australia. I wouldn't like to think that our citizens are treated with the degree of disrespect a lot of migrant workers are here in Ireland.

thebaz

it seams in Ireland to openly , question current Immigration policy, you risk being labelled a racist

to me, racism, is more an attitude, rather than the opening of borders

btw - I lived in Texas for awhile a few years ago, and was certainly made feal how gratefull I should be for the privilege - i guarantee there was no welfare payments - but i do like the texans , they say it as it is, no ****

iamstop

We should send them all to Ogdenville

yrwhu8jxtni06a

CokaColumbo wrote: »

No it certainly is not racist. I would be in favour of free emigration if the ROI did not provide such an extensive welfare state for immigrants. What we have at the moment though is a system in which an immigrant can come to Ireland, do very little work (if any), and enjoy a standard of living which far surpasses what he/she is able to experience back in their own country.

This is the problem itself,child benefit is allowed to paid to children outside country which makes it most generous payment in eu.

Question-the recent eu ruling,would that encourage non eu member citizens to have more kids in eu?

OPENROAD

Stephen Late Bartender wrote: »

This is the problem itself,child benefit is allowed to paid to children outside country which makes it most generous payment in eu.

And vice versa, not specifically an Irish thing as far as I know.

whiteonion

You can't have a generous welfare state and be open for free immigration from third world countries, because the costs would be to great and it would destroy the welfare state. If you want to destroy the welfare state like libertarians want to do then you support free immigration.

Nodin

UsernameInUse wrote: »

Well, that's a given but we're turning away hard working citizens.

Remember - Microsoft, Apple and Facebook were all co-founded by immigrants.

I didn't say no to immigration, I said no to "free immigration".

None of the founders of Apple were immigrants....I suspect you're taking the piss.

OPENROAD

Nodin wrote: »

I didn't say no to immigration, I said no to "free immigration".

None of the founders of Apple were immigrants....I suspect you're taking the piss.

Have not read whole thread, so you may have covered this, does that include EU immigration?

aligator_am

I think in fairness that most people wouldn't begrudge folk who come here to work, I wouldn't, but I have to ask, why are the Roma gypsies allowed come here? what reason do they have to be here other than beg? am being honest here, and if that makes me a prick then so be it.

desaparecidos

What's so wrong with being "racist" anyway?

Buceph

desaparecidos wrote: »

What's so wrong with being "racist" anyway?

It's unjustifiable hatred.

You hate someone because they are part of a particular race and there's no substantiave reason to do that.

bnt

ElaElaElano wrote: »

Even only going only as far back as five years ago, it was only the 'unskilled eastern Europeans' (ps most Poles/Czechs working here are very much overqualified for the work they're doing) and other migrants to Ireland who bothered to do the menial work. Everyone else was too good for it, apparently.

I have to say I'm getting a bit tired of hearing this old fallacy - "immigrants do jobs that the locals don't want to do". People will take any job if the pay is right, but when large numbers of people come in, willing to take jobs for much less than they used to pay, it depresses wages all around, to the point where governments have to implement minimum wage standards to try to prevent exploitation.

So now we have a situation in which the social welfare system pays more than the menial work - and you wonder why only immgrants who don't qualify for social welfare are doing them? Menial labour is a commodity, and when there's a chronic oversupply of any commodity, of course its costs come down. That should translate to lower costs for consumers, but does it?

RichieC

Only those with **** lives give anything but a ****. so. yea.

benjamin d

bnt wrote: »

I have to say I'm getting a bit tired of hearing this old fallacy - "immigrants do jobs that the locals don't want to do". People will take any job if the pay is right, but when large numbers of people come in, willing to take jobs for much less than they used to pay, it depresses wages all around, to the point where governments have to implement minimum wage standards to try to prevent exploitation.

So now we have a situation in which the social welfare system pays more than the menial work - and you wonder why only immgrants who don't qualify for social welfare are doing them? Menial labour is a commodity, and when there's a chronic oversupply of any commodity, of course its costs come down. That should translate to lower costs for consumers, but does it?

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you here, but many many irish people have a horrible attitude to low paid work. As far as i'm aware there was a minimum wage in place before we had any significant immigration. I'm sure everyone here knows at least one person (i know several) who say that they couldn't work for minimum wage, while sitting on the dole complaining about having no work! Whether you like people saying it or not the fact is that eastern europeans took minimum wage jobs because a lot of irish people were and are too good for it, or so they think. There needs to be a real shift in peoples attitudes in this country because so many people expected to make a mint by doing fcuk all! Half the people my age - i'm 23- that I know have little or no work experience at all because they had everything handed to them on a plate growing up. Minimum wage is not too low, in fact its too high, but welfare entitlements are ridiculous!

Cybertron85

Depends on the foreigners, there shouldn't be a cap, but there should be a highly rigorous selection process.

OPENROAD

Cybertron85 wrote: »

Depends on the foreigners, there shouldn't be a cap, but there should be a highly rigorous selection process.

Are we talking EU or non EU?

Cybertron85

Buceph wrote: »

It's unjustifiable hatred.

You hate someone because they are part of a particular race and there's no substantiave reason to do that.

How would you know there's no reason, and who the hell are you to say who people should or shouldn't like.

There's either freedom of speech or there isn't, no double standards and no pick-n-mix bull****.

keithcan

There's a few basics about immigrants who've come here over last few years that imo should be considered in how we regard them. People from the 8 eastern european states that joined the EU in 2004 are fully entitled to be here without restriction (except there are some social welfare limitations) as a result of their EU membership. We have no controls over how many Poles, Latvians, Czechs, etc. come and go and they are doing nothing wrong.

A substantial number of Nigerians came in as illegal immigrants but (ab)used the asylum system to gain entry (once you say the 'A' word you have to be let in). Quite a number of Nigerians were subsequently regularised under the immigration system by virtue of having Irish-born children. It was a bit of a scam and it worked for a good few. At this stage, I'd be hopeful that those involved - who will soon be entitled to Irish citizenship - will have left their dodgey past behind them (as in abusing asylum process etc) and become productive members of society. There'll no doubt be a mixture as there'd be with any community: great sorts and messers. But we'll be glad to have them when the national soccer team has a number of nigerian-origin star players.

The Roma I cannot understand, esp where they are from Romania. I believe that the highest monthly number of Romanian asylum seekers here was December 2006 - the month before they joined the EU. Because once in the EU, a member state's citizens have no automatic right to clam asylum in another member state, so they barreled in that month. Unlike the eastern european states that joined the EU in 2004, Ireland did not give free entry to Romanians and Bulgarians in Jan 2007 when they joined the EU, so their citizens have to go through an immigration process same as non-EU States, and the criteria would be about skills etc, if you're not a student or tourist. So how is it we appear to be hosting a good number of Roma? Perhaps they're from other eastern eu states, but if not, I think the immigration Gardai should do more about it.

Last point here, a big question in the immigration debate is the huge difficulty of deportation. It's a really difficut process and yet, without effective deportation, your immigration controls are undermined.

Cybertron85

OPENROAD wrote: »

Are we talking EU or non EU?

Global, merit shouldn't really be down to nationality.

Buceph

Cybertron85 wrote: »

How would you know there's no reason,

There is no justifiable reason to write off an entire race of people.

and who the hell are you to say who people should or shouldn't like.

I'm not saying you should or shouldn't like anyone. I'm saying it's unjustifiable. And therefore ignorant.

There's either freedom of speech or there isn't,

There is freedom of speech, but it has limits.

no double standards and no pick-n-mix bull****.

I haven't shown any double standards.


And really, troll harder, this is easy.