Youths Rugby

ormond lad

clubrug wrote: »

Schools will always have more clout, like the way you say "won't let them get involved". Things have not changed in relation to schools v clubs. Schools entice kids from clubs, saying it is the way to 'go', how many lads from club squads are chased by schools. Kids doing the leaving in other schools are canvassed to repeat in theirs, things haven't moved on much.

The U20 squad in France had no exiles I believe, why not develop home lads. The IRFU with the NIQs and all. Were there 5 or 6 exiles included, give home lads the places, any club that would get a lad on an Irish squad does benefit that club. Not just pride, it is a super advertisement for them and the local game , encourages young kids in the locality to take up the game and lifts the lads team mates.

"MEANT to be phase two leagues", Pan-munster is a great competition, but those that don't make it are neglected, and there are some good players in those teams, players that lets say in the 19s competiton have previously represented their province. No easy solution I know but nothing much has been done here since the competition began.

Schools will always have a stronger hand.

A problem with phase 2 leagues is that some of the regions would have to combine their leagues to create an adequate enough development lrague for example there was only 3 teams from the east that didnt make ehe pan munster and there was 4 or 5 teams from the north that didnt but obv there was no talk of those teams playing in a league for more games.

I know the schools take plenty of good youths players for example 3 or 4 of this seasons munster schools squad initially played for east munster 17s last feb/march and rockwell asked them to move to the school for this school year and instead of playing munster youths the 3 lads played munster schools

IMO the initial stage of the leagues would be better off if the likes of nenagh etc played in u19 leagues with limerick clubs and each section was split up into groups of 5-6 depending on clubs location. This happened in the 10/11 season and worked quite well

The exiles have to be kept, they always have strengthened the team and while there has been cases like shane geraghty, who played irish youths and then went on to play for england but there have been a few whove stayed in the irish system

In Munster anyway, i think the gap between schools and youths is very very close and the gap is always closing.

Stanza2

"Schools will always have more clout"........... of course they will. It it has always been the case.

The club system and the national U18 youths is a great system and the IRFU should be applauded for it. It offers real opportunity to all the lads to really go and play at a seriously high level. In Connacht we lost a lad who played in the club system last year to the Irish schools as he was offered a place in Roscrea. As Ormond says, it happens in Munster too.

I do hate it though when people disrespect the exiles or refers to them in a negative way. The future of the game is for Irish qualified players, they are also qualified for Ireland. They are as entitled to play for Ireland as anyone, it is not their fault that their parents and grandparents moved away for economic reasons. They will be chased by other countries if they are good enough, the odd one might not choose to play for us then let them off but if they are Irish then we should invite them "home" to study and play here. We are sending enough in the other direction.

I went with some friends to watch the Connacht lads play against the schools in Dublin at Christmas and to my eyes the stand out talent was a young lad from the Exiles who came on as a sub for the clubs after 15 mins or so, he had great hands, strong, fast and I thought that the clubs moved up a gear when he got the ball. I saw that the lad got on to the starting line up for the Italy game and was not surprised. My friend later told me that the kid was only 16. How could you not want someone like that playing for Ireland? All the Exiles were good players. You should not think in provincial terms only when it comes to national selection.

With regards to a previous comment that no Exiles were on the Irish U20 team in France, that is technically not true. Young Kieran Marmion at 9 was an Exile last year and only just joined the Connacht Academy this year, he came through the Exile system and seems a great lad. We do not have the amount of rugby playing schools as other provinces, but we do have a few good ones and we will take these young Exiles as they seem to be looked down upon by others provinces. There was at least 3 in this Irish youth team that I would have any day.

ormond lad

Stanza2 wrote: »

"Schools will always have more clout"........... of course they will. It it has always been the case.

The club system and the national U18 youths is a great system and the IRFU should be applauded for it. It offers real opportunity to all the lads to really go and play at a seriously high level. In Connacht we lost a lad who played in the club system last year to the Irish schools as he was offered a place in Roscrea. As Ormond says, it happens in Munster too.

I do hate it though when people disrespect the exiles or refers to them in a negative way. The future of the game is for Irish qualified players, they are also qualified for Ireland. They are as entitled to play for Ireland as anyone, it is not their fault that their parents and grandparents moved away for economic reasons. They will be chased by other countries if they are good enough, the odd one might not choose to play for us then let them off but if they are Irish then we should invite them "home" to study and play here. We are sending enough in the other direction.

I went with some friends to watch the Connacht lads play against the schools in Dublin at Christmas and to my eyes the stand out talent was a young lad from the Exiles who came on as a sub for the clubs after 15 mins or so, he had great hands, strong, fast and I thought that the clubs moved up a gear when he got the ball. I saw that the lad got on to the starting line up for the Italy game and was not surprised. My friend later told me that the kid was only 16. How could you not want someone like that playing for Ireland? All the Exiles were good players. You should not think in provincial terms only when it comes to national selection.

With regards to a previous comment that no Exiles were on the Irish U20 team in France, that is technically not true. Young Kieran Marmion at 9 was an Exile last year and only just joined the Connacht Academy this year, he came through the Exile system and seems a great lad. We do not have the amount of rugby playing schools as other provinces, but we do have a few good ones and we will take these young Exiles as they seem to be looked down upon by others provinces. There was at least 3 in this Irish youth team that I would have any day.

It seems to me that some people "disrespect" the exiles as there has been quite a few exiles who have played irish youths to get into view to make the english system. Theres been several cases of exiles playing irish youths then jumping ship to play english 20s and beyond in the english system

In my view as quite a few of the exiles that end up playing for the irish youths attend some of the biggest rugby playing schools in england they shpuld be playing for the irish schools not the irish youths

We have to look at the exiles as we dont have the biggest of pools of players but they should not be playing for the youths as they are schools players

profitius

Stanza2 wrote: »

I went with some friends to watch the Connacht lads play against the schools in Dublin at Christmas and to my eyes the stand out talent was a young lad from the Exiles who came on as a sub for the clubs after 15 mins or so, he had great hands, strong, fast and I thought that the clubs moved up a gear when he got the ball. I saw that the lad got on to the starting line up for the Italy game and was not surprised. My friend later told me that the kid was only 16. How could you not want someone like that playing for Ireland? All the Exiles were good players. You should not think in provincial terms only when it comes to national selection.

If that lad turns into a very good player and England come calling history has shown that hes likely to choose England over Ireland. Thats my problem with the exiles. Kieran Brookes and Shane Geraghty are 2 examples.

muscleshirt

in tony wards article in the Indo today seems he is not a great fan of the academy system where they fast track lads 13/14 and forget about the late developer.he prefers the AIL route,interesting

ormond lad

muscleshirt wrote: »

in tony wards article in the Indo today seems he is not a great fan of the academy system where they fast track lads 13/14 and forget about the late developer.he prefers the AIL route,interesting

Do you have a link to that? Should be interesting read

muscleshirt

ormond lad wrote: »

Do you have a link to that? Should be interesting read

they don't seem to have it on their web edition,got it on hard copy..worth a read

Parish Lad

Tuesday February 21 2012

Tony Ward
Irish Independent

Putting players 'on report' a welcome advance by IRB




With the Six Nations enjoying its mid-tournament break -- there were to be the traditional two weeks gap but the French Rugby Federation put paid to that -- the Pro12 League took centre stage last weekend.

Far be it from me to knock the Celtic competition that keeps the professional game afloat, particularly when it attracts over 16,000 paying punters to the RDS on a February Friday night to watch two under-strength teams, but there is another show in town -- the Ulster Bank All-Ireland League.

Lest some of you forget, it used to be the gateway to professional rugby -- and if there is any semblance of sense at union level, it should be again.

As someone involved in underage coaching, the notion of screening and fast-tracking through provincial academies sticks in the craw. But sadly, such is now the way of the rugby world: identify players young, screen them and slot them instantly into fast-lane mode. I abhor the notion.

Perhaps I am a fossil from a bygone age, but I defy anyone to point out a flaw in the four-tier system of underage, club, provincial and international levels that has long served Irish rugby so well.

The rate of physical and emotional maturation varies dramatically. Just because a boy develops early, say at U-13 or U-14, it does not mean he will end up any better than a late developer.

I am astonished at the emphasis placed on size over skill by many of those doing the screening.

When our greatest ever player was at school in Blackrock -- contrary to popular myth -- he was very talented, but nothing exceptional. However, when Brian O'Driscoll left school and moved on to club rugby at UCD, that spark of magic began to emerge.

I accept that the game today is a different animal to what it once was, but I still find it sad that of the 16,000-odd supporting Leinster at the RDS on Friday night, I doubt if even one-tenth had been inside a club ground.

But the club game still has a very real role to play in Irish rugby.

Unfortunately, with the onset of professionalism, the club game -- globally -- got caught in limbo.

I fully appreciate the benefit of the Celtic League and the investment of the various sponsors, and it's great to see Leinster, Munster and Ulster flying high, but give me an AIL match any day.

And I fully support Fergus Slattery in his campaign to have the club game return to full amateur status. Here, as with elements of the GAA, the main issue surrounds policing the rules surrounding amateurism.

Meanwhile, with minimal fuss, the first straight race for All-Ireland honours since the play-off system came into play in 1998 is hotting up nicely.

With five series of games to go, it is effectively a three-club scramble between Clontarf, St Mary's and Young Munster.

Just two points separate the leading three and, intriguingly, they all have to play each other.

On March 24, Young Munster will welcome Clontarf to Greenfields, while on April 14 the cross-Dublin clash will take place at Castle Avenue.

And on the final day a week later, Young Munster will travel to play St Mary's at Templeville Road.

Recollections of 1993 come instantly to mind -- back then, because of the extraordinary demand, and in the interest of safety -- the IRFU shifted that final-day showdown from Templeville Road to Lansdowne Road.

While Munsters deservedly took the title and Ger Clohessy lifted the trophy, Mary's could justifiably feel aggrieved given that they had to surrender home advantage.

Should it come down to a case of '93 revisited this year, I wouldn't bet against another contentious final-day venue battle arising, even in these lean times.

The trophy's destination may well have been decided at that stage, but 19 years on the parallels are almost freakish.

Munsters won that final match of the 1993 campaign 17-14 by way of a late Aidan O'Halloran penalty, but not before Brent Pope floored Francis Brosnihan to earn red, with Brosie ending up in hospital, and Ger Earls (father of Keith) electrifying Lansdowne Road and the incredible 17,000 present with a scintillating 60-yard opportunist try. It was a score worthy of tipping such a tense and dramatic finale.

Keith Earls, set to be named again in the Ireland side later today, certainly didn't lick it off a stone.

putting players 'on report' a welcome advance by irb

With the Super 15 set to kick off and the first 'Rugby Championship' (Tri-Nations plus Argentina) to follow, southern hemisphere referees have been given the power to put players 'on report' for any suspected act of dangerous or foul play.

It is a system borrowed and adapted from rugby league, aimed at making the match official's job less complex and achieving a greater level of consistency for any subsequent judicial hearing.

It will place a player (suspected of foul play) on report for post-match analysis where some element of doubt exists at the time.

The player placed 'on report' will then face a judicial hearing that will determine whether foul play occurred and the level involved. The International Rugby Board will monitor its progress.

It is a welcome addition at a time when the game is becoming increasingly more difficult for match officials to handle.

No sporting code should ever draw back from bringing in ideas of any other code for the betterment of its own.

For this initiative, certain to be adapted full-time and hopefully universally, the IRB is to be commended.

Stanza2

ormond lad wrote: »

It seems to me that some people "disrespect" the exiles as there has been quite a few exiles who have played irish youths to get into view to make the english system. Theres been several cases of exiles playing irish youths then jumping ship to play english 20s and beyond in the english system

In my view as quite a few of the exiles that end up playing for the irish youths attend some of the biggest rugby playing schools in england they shpuld be playing for the irish schools not the irish youths

We have to look at the exiles as we dont have the biggest of pools of players but they should not be playing for the youths as they are schools players

So who should the young Exiles play for then? The schools are bursting with players and would be even stronger with some of the top Exiles, as you say we don't have the biggest pool of players? So should Irish club players who get offered places in Irish schools not be allowed to take up that place?

IMO you are wrong, these boys come because they want to play for Ireland. Surely the aim is to develop the best Irish qualified players, wherever they come from? If you had your way, you would be denying Exiles of places as the schools has more boys to choose from and you would be making the youths team weaker by keeping them out of it. Does not make sense to me!

You are way, way to sceptical about these young lads going to play for England.

clubrug

Stanza2 "You should not think in provincial terms only when it comes to national selection, I do hate it though when people disrespect the exiles or refers to them in a negative way" Appreciate your comments. Heard the exiles lads are massive and good players indeed, and I do respect the fact that they have a right to play for Ireland and is of great honour for their families both home and away.

I feel and have felt for many years that clubs players are neglected, close to second class in comparison to the schools, however the gap is closing. Let them join the schools squads, but we all know that will never happen.We work extremely hard in our clubs, takes a hell of a lot of effort to keep lads playing rugby, especially at U17 and 19s, 19s is a nightmare, evident from the amount of clubs amalgamating and some not even able to field teams in the pan munster league competition.

"Making the youths team weaker by keeping them out of it", these are young lads 16 to 18 years old, it may indeed weaken them, so what, the onus is to develop kids, the exiles appeared to the lads to be more developed (it was said Harlequins academy represented there). Sorry but we have some fantastic talent in our clubs and as I already stated previously it all is good news for their clubs when they represent. Regarding denying exiles places, could the home players that loose squad places out to them not perhaps equally be lost, kids develop differently.

ormond lad

Stanza2 wrote: »

So who should the young Exiles play for then? The schools are bursting with players and would be even stronger with some of the top Exiles, as you say we don't have the biggest pool of players? So should Irish club players who get offered places in Irish schools not be allowed to take up that place?

IMO you are wrong, these boys come because they want to play for Ireland. Surely the aim is to develop the best Irish qualified players, wherever they come from? If you had your way, you would be denying Exiles of places as the schools has more boys to choose from and you would be making the youths team weaker by keeping them out of it. Does not make sense to me!

You are way, way to sceptical about these young lads going to play for England.

Im not being too skeptical about them going to play for england but the facts are that many of these exiles are in some of the top english schools

And if you actually look at the last IRFU annual report that is available between the 4 provinces there is only a few hundred kids in the difference between kids registered to play in the top schools and in the youths system

Its my opinion that those exiles that are in the top english rugby playing schools, and there has been a few, the past few years should be playing on the irish schools team as they are "schools" players

I want them to play for Ireland if that is their wish but those that are in the top rugby playing schools in england should play for the irish schools not the youths.

profitius

Good article from Ward there. Late developers are at a mighty disadvantage so players should be screened at a later age. The Irish system is better than the English system in that regard because in England they bring them into academies younger so its more of a guessing game as to who will turn out to be good players.

That also leads us to the exiles. One of the posters said the exiles lads are more developed and its because of that reason. It doesn't make them better players in the long run and could be blocking potentially better Irish players that have not developed yet. So not only do England take the best players for themselves but the exiles could also be blocking better Irish players.

clubrug

Reading Tony Wards article there, "I am astonished at the emphasis placed on size over skill by many of those doing the screening".

This really stands out for me. Every development officer have done this, everyone is saying, oh he is too small, won't be able to progress, so they put the bigger lad through to the division or provincial, national team, yet that lad would no way touch the talent of the smaller one. We see it, however it is accepted throughout.

If a lad does not make his divisional team (south or east munster for example) at the age of 16, he might as well stop trying. Those that do make that divisional team yet does not move on to the provincial team future chances are seriously reduced.

ormond lad

clubrug wrote: »

Reading Tony Wards article there, "I am astonished at the emphasis placed on size over skill by many of those doing the screening".

This really stands out for me. Every development officer have done this, everyone is saying, oh he is too small, won't be able to progress, so they put the bigger lad through to the division or provincial, national team, yet that lad would no way touch the talent of the smaller one. We see it, however it is accepted throughout.

If a lad does not make his divisional team (south or east munster for example) at the age of 16, he might as well stop trying. Those that do make that divisional team yet does not move on to the provincial team future chances are seriously reduced.

The size issue is a problem but not always and the size issue isnt as bad s it was 4-5 years ago when i was in the development system. Oisin O Meara from kilfeacle played munster youths this season and nearly wasnt picked for both east munster and munster youths as coaches thought he was way too small to play 7 but after watching him play and seeing how technically good he is, they kept him on.
Just because you dont make your regional side at 16 doesnt mean your chances to make it into the elite pathway, the pan munster 17s and especially 19s gives players chances to impress provincial coaches the sme for those players who make the regional squads but not provincial. Tom Kiersey from waterpark is a case in point, he was dropped off the east munster 17s team after 1 round of the regional series the year he was u17 and didnt play in the other games and only got a shot at munster youths because of waterparks run to the all ireland title and his role in the run to that title

Stanza2

Can't get over your attitude on the Exiles, you say that the irish schools don't want them and say that you guy's don't want them in the irish youths team as they are holding back young club players ! that's a great way of welcoming potential future Irish players. Welcome home lads. not.

Lets just play with young munster lads eh! Get those young lads with the Irish names and English accents back on the boat.

ormond lad

Stanza2 wrote: »

Can't get over your attitude on the Exiles, you say that the irish schools don't want them and say that you guy's don't want them in the irish youths team as they are holding back young club players ! that's a great way of welcoming potential future Irish players. Welcome home lads. not.

Lets just play with young munster lads eh! Get those young lads with the Irish names and English accents back on the boat.

My biggest problem with the exiles is that quite a few have went on after playing for the youths straight into english 20s squads and further, for example shane geraghty and there has been others

Plenty of the exiles have been in fee paying rugby playing schools like stoneyhurst college, etc therefore if they want to play for ireland(which i do want) they should look to play for the irish schools team.

Amazotheamazing

Stanza2 wrote: »

You are way, way to sceptical about these young lads going to play for England.

Shane Geraghty, Keiran Brookes, Paul Doran-Jones. All capped by England now.

ormond lad

East 17s/19s cup draws up on munster rugby
East u19 Cup
1/4s
1. Dungarvan - Waterford City v Kilfeacle and District
2. Cashel - Thurles v Clonmel
3. Waterpark bye
4. Nenagh v Clanwilliam
Semi-Final
1 v 2
3 v 4

East u17 Cup
Round 1
1. Cashel v Clanwilliam
2. Thurles v Clonmel
3. Waterpark v Dungarvan
4. Fethard v Nenagh
5. Galbally bye
6. Kilfeacle bye
7. Waterford City bye
8. Carrick on Suir bye
1/4s
A. 1 v 2
B. 3 v 4
C. 5 v 6
D. 7 v 8
Semis
A v B
C v D


League final wont be repeated in cup final at either age group with it likely to happen in semis at 19s and it will happen in 1st round at 17s

1st round games due to be played this weekend

clubrug

ormond lad wrote: »

The size issue is a problem but not always and the size issue isnt as bad s it was 4-5 years ago when i was in the development system. Oisin O Meara from kilfeacle played munster youths this season and nearly wasnt picked for both east munster and munster youths as coaches thought he was way too small to play 7 but after watching him play and seeing how technically good he is, they kept him on.
Just because you dont make your regional side at 16 doesnt mean your chances to make it into the elite pathway, the pan munster 17s and especially 19s gives players chances to impress provincial coaches the sme for those players who make the regional squads but not provincial. Tom Kiersey from waterpark is a case in point, he was dropped off the east munster 17s team after 1 round of the regional series the year he was u17 and didnt play in the other games and only got a shot at munster youths because of waterparks run to the all ireland title and his role in the run to that title

Remembering seeing that O' Meara lad from Kilfeacle at an u12 blitz years ago and he really caught the eye and every time I have seen him since he has been I believe probably the best all round player, around the east anyway at his age group, does serious work for Kilfeacle and is super consistent. Saw him play for munster youths against Ulster in Thomand and he was exceptional, by far the best player on the pitch, everyone was talking about him that day and heard he had a great series. No doubt he is small, but don't believe Tony Ward would discard him, he probably be too small for a back too, the way they are growing but from what I have seen, this lad has no respect for size and is a tough boy that works very hard for his team.
Had lads from our club playing east rugby with Kiersey (not too big either), he was class, and from I remember that was pre development officers and there was a strong waterpark presence, can't believe he was dropped at the time. Again he is excellent, always was, maybe he wasn't bothered, heard he wasn't bothered with Irish youths at the time. Two excellent players you mentioned Ormond, think it would be daft not to see them developed until fully matured.

But a very small group of lads if not gone through regional or provincial squads will get an invite to train with squads, perhaps only seen at the real business end of competitions, so if you don't make it there, chances seriously lessened again. Heard a couple of lads impressing down south were included in munster 19s training squad, but two isn't a lot.

ormond lad

clubrug wrote: »

Remembering seeing that O' Meara lad from Kilfeacle at an u12 blitz years ago and he really caught the eye and every time I have seen him since he has been I believe probably the best all round player, around the east anyway at his age group, does serious work for Kilfeacle and is super consistent. Saw him play for munster youths against Ulster in Thomand and he was exceptional, by far the best player on the pitch, everyone was talking about him that day and heard he had a great series. No doubt he is small, but don't believe Tony Ward would discard him, he probably be too small for a back too, the way they are growing but from what I have seen, this lad has no respect for size and is a tough boy that works very hard for his team.
Had lads from our club playing east rugby with Kiersey (not too big either), he was class, and from I remember that was pre development officers and there was a strong waterpark presence, can't believe he was dropped at the time. Again he is excellent, always was, maybe he wasn't bothered, heard he wasn't bothered with Irish youths at the time. Two excellent players you mentioned Ormond, think it would be daft not to see them developed until fully matured.

But a very small group of lads if not gone through regional or provincial squads will get an invite to train with squads, perhaps only seen at the real business end of competitions, so if you don't make it there, chances seriously lessened again. Heard a couple of lads impressing down south were included in munster 19s training squad, but two isn't a lot.

O Meara is 1 of the best tacklers and plyers at the breakdown ive ever seen play rugby, gives perfect balance to your backrow if you have 2 decent big ball carriers and lineout jumpers etc at 6 and 8
Remember going to a game he played against Nenagh about 2 years ago and i can remember watching him do a job on the outhalf for nenagh who if given any space at all would have been the difference between the sides but he wasnt let as o meara just chopped him down and literally sat on him at every breakdown
I wouldnt call him the best all round player at his age group, but he is one of the top players. Theres 1 or 2 in 'park who id rate higher overall esp Jack o Don
I was involved with east in the pre development officers and waterpark and the southern half and the very north of the east region always to me seemed to have the greater representation in the coaching staff. For as long as i can remember the coaches/selectors/managers have mainly been from Nenagh, Thurles, Waterpark, Dungarvan and Carrick on Suir

clubrug

You got him, some boy to tackle, and loves the breakdown, plays with hunger. Jack O' D very very good player, super ball carrier and strong, needs others to do the dirty work for him to be at his best, they'd work well. Boys in Waterpark and surrounded by much better players then O' Meara would be, think they would love to have him, they have lacked a 7 at that age.
Helped the rest of the 19s team in the east having Waterpark out of the pan-munster, lads were going on too long without competitive games and struggled to even train, so will welcome the arrival of the cup competition.

ormond lad

clubrug wrote: »

You got him, some boy to tackle, and loves the breakdown, plays with hunger. Jack O' D very very good player, super ball carrier and strong, needs others to do the dirty work for him to be at his best, they'd work well. Boys in Waterpark and surrounded by much better players then O' Meara would be, think they would love to have him, they have lacked a 7 at that age.
Helped the rest of the 19s team in the east having Waterpark out of the pan-munster, lads were going on too long without competitive games and struggled to even train, so will welcome the arrival of the cup competition.

Waterpark have a bye in 1st round of cup so everyone would have got at least 1 game in the wait for waterpark to finish their munster run.

ormond lad

2 remaining u19 1/4s are on this weekend. On Saturday Highfield playing host to Crosshaven in Woodleigh Park at 1.45pm
And on Sunday Garryowen have home advantage against Bruff in Dooradoyle at 12:30pm
Winners of Saturdays game will have home advantage against Shannon in 1 semi and the winner of Sundays game will be at home to Bandon in the other semi

If you are around saturday or sunday, drop into either game and you will get to see some of the best 17 and 18 year old rugby players in munster for free

muscleshirt

ormond lad wrote: »

2 remaining u19 1/4s are on this weekend. On Saturday Highfield playing host to Crosshaven in Woodleigh Park at 1.45pm
And on Sunday Garryowen have home advantage against Bruff in Dooradoyle at 12:30pm
Winners of Saturdays game will have home advantage against Shannon in 1 semi and the winner of Sundays game will be at home to Bandon in the other semi

If you are around saturday or sunday, drop into either game and you will get to see some of the best 17 and 18 year old rugby players in munster for free

agree,hope to go see the u19 garryowen/bruff game on sunday
i fancy garryowen not sure about the highfield/cross game could go either way..

Catalpa1

Highfield 19s have played Crosshaven twice this year. 9-3 to Highfield and 6-3 Crosshaven were the outcomes, although the latter was at the beginning of the season.

skip64

Parish Lad wrote: »

Tuesday February 21 2012

Tony Ward
Irish Independent

Putting players 'on report' a welcome advance by IRB




With the Six Nations enjoying its mid-tournament break -- there were to be the traditional two weeks gap but the French Rugby Federation put paid to that -- the Pro12 League took centre stage last weekend.

Far be it from me to knock the Celtic competition that keeps the professional game afloat, particularly when it attracts over 16,000 paying punters to the RDS on a February Friday night to watch two under-strength teams, but there is another show in town -- the Ulster Bank All-Ireland League.

Lest some of you forget, it used to be the gateway to professional rugby -- and if there is any semblance of sense at union level, it should be again.

As someone involved in underage coaching, the notion of screening and fast-tracking through provincial academies sticks in the craw. But sadly, such is now the way of the rugby world: identify players young, screen them and slot them instantly into fast-lane mode. I abhor the notion.

Perhaps I am a fossil from a bygone age, but I defy anyone to point out a flaw in the four-tier system of underage, club, provincial and international levels that has long served Irish rugby so well.

The rate of physical and emotional maturation varies dramatically. Just because a boy develops early, say at U-13 or U-14, it does not mean he will end up any better than a late developer.

I am astonished at the emphasis placed on size over skill by many of those doing the screening.

When our greatest ever player was at school in Blackrock -- contrary to popular myth -- he was very talented, but nothing exceptional. However, when Brian O'Driscoll left school and moved on to club rugby at UCD, that spark of magic began to emerge.

I accept that the game today is a different animal to what it once was, but I still find it sad that of the 16,000-odd supporting Leinster at the RDS on Friday night, I doubt if even one-tenth had been inside a club ground.

But the club game still has a very real role to play in Irish rugby.

Unfortunately, with the onset of professionalism, the club game -- globally -- got caught in limbo.

I fully appreciate the benefit of the Celtic League and the investment of the various sponsors, and it's great to see Leinster, Munster and Ulster flying high, but give me an AIL match any day.

And I fully support Fergus Slattery in his campaign to have the club game return to full amateur status. Here, as with elements of the GAA, the main issue surrounds policing the rules surrounding amateurism.

Meanwhile, with minimal fuss, the first straight race for All-Ireland honours since the play-off system came into play in 1998 is hotting up nicely.

With five series of games to go, it is effectively a three-club scramble between Clontarf, St Mary's and Young Munster.

Just two points separate the leading three and, intriguingly, they all have to play each other.

On March 24, Young Munster will welcome Clontarf to Greenfields, while on April 14 the cross-Dublin clash will take place at Castle Avenue.

And on the final day a week later, Young Munster will travel to play St Mary's at Templeville Road.

Recollections of 1993 come instantly to mind -- back then, because of the extraordinary demand, and in the interest of safety -- the IRFU shifted that final-day showdown from Templeville Road to Lansdowne Road.

While Munsters deservedly took the title and Ger Clohessy lifted the trophy, Mary's could justifiably feel aggrieved given that they had to surrender home advantage.

Should it come down to a case of '93 revisited this year, I wouldn't bet against another contentious final-day venue battle arising, even in these lean times.

The trophy's destination may well have been decided at that stage, but 19 years on the parallels are almost freakish.

Munsters won that final match of the 1993 campaign 17-14 by way of a late Aidan O'Halloran penalty, but not before Brent Pope floored Francis Brosnihan to earn red, with Brosie ending up in hospital, and Ger Earls (father of Keith) electrifying Lansdowne Road and the incredible 17,000 present with a scintillating 60-yard opportunist try. It was a score worthy of tipping such a tense and dramatic finale.

Keith Earls, set to be named again in the Ireland side later today, certainly didn't lick it off a stone.

putting players 'on report' a welcome advance by irb

With the Super 15 set to kick off and the first 'Rugby Championship' (Tri-Nations plus Argentina) to follow, southern hemisphere referees have been given the power to put players 'on report' for any suspected act of dangerous or foul play.

It is a system borrowed and adapted from rugby league, aimed at making the match official's job less complex and achieving a greater level of consistency for any subsequent judicial hearing.

It will place a player (suspected of foul play) on report for post-match analysis where some element of doubt exists at the time.

The player placed 'on report' will then face a judicial hearing that will determine whether foul play occurred and the level involved. The International Rugby Board will monitor its progress.

It is a welcome addition at a time when the game is becoming increasingly more difficult for match officials to handle.

No sporting code should ever draw back from bringing in ideas of any other code for the betterment of its own.

For this initiative, certain to be adapted full-time and hopefully universally, the IRB is to be commended.

Great read on Tony Ward - i was at the 93 final...and i was neither a Young Munster or St Marys supporter. I just loved following the game back then. I to have a young lad on the Irish Youths that travelled to Italy last week. great weekend had by all. pity about the missed tries... but such is life... as for schools v clubs... wont even comment as it does not deserve such discussion. you all have a nice weekend. and remeber "to the Brave and faithful nothing is impossible"... :-)

skip64

ormond lad wrote: »

O Meara is 1 of the best tacklers and plyers at the breakdown ive ever seen play rugby, gives perfect balance to your backrow if you have 2 decent big ball carriers and lineout jumpers etc at 6 and 8
Remember going to a game he played against Nenagh about 2 years ago and i can remember watching him do a job on the outhalf for nenagh who if given any space at all would have been the difference between the sides but he wasnt let as o meara just chopped him down and literally sat on him at every breakdown
I wouldnt call him the best all round player at his age group, but he is one of the top players. Theres 1 or 2 in 'park who id rate higher overall esp Jack o Don
I was involved with east in the pre development officers and waterpark and the southern half and the very north of the east region always to me seemed to have the greater representation in the coaching staff. For as long as i can remember the coaches/selectors/managers have mainly been from Nenagh, Thurles, Waterpark, Dungarvan and Carrick on Suir

Can i give my comments on O'Meara... i travelled to Italy last week.. and beleive me the #7 was no bigger that O'Meara.. and to be honest O'Meara would have loved that game. A bit suprised to about the last line on coaches. I am a GAA man out and out... and dont think my son made the cut because of a coach from our club (which there are noe). he worked as hard...and probally more that the more noted club players to make the cut for Irsh Youths...

ormond lad

skip64 wrote: »

Can i give my comments on O'Meara... i travelled to Italy last week.. and beleive me the #7 was no bigger that O'Meara.. and to be honest O'Meara would have loved that game. A bit suprised to about the last line on coaches. I am a GAA man out and out... and dont think my son made the cut because of a coach from our club (which there are noe). he worked as hard...and probally more that the more noted club players to make the cut for Irsh Youths...

Any underage representative team is rife with political picks and as more of the coaches/selectors of east munster 17s have been from the southern half of east munster than the northern half and the clubs that coaches are from will nearly always have a few players in a squad

skip64

ormond lad wrote: »

skip64 wrote: »

Can i give my comments on O'Meara... i travelled to Italy last week.. and beleive me the #7 was no bigger that O'Meara.. and to be honest O'Meara would have loved that game. A bit suprised to about the last line on coaches. I am a GAA man out and out... and dont think my son made the cut because of a coach from our club (which there are noe). he worked as hard...and probally more that the more noted club players to make the cut for Irsh Youths...

Any underage representative team is rife with political picks and as more of the coaches/selectors of east munster 17s have been from the southern half of east munster than the northern half and the clubs that coaches are from will nearly always have a few players in a squad

Wow.. Not sure if you class Nenagh/Cashel as southern part of east Munster. Sometimes it's hard to accept that other clubs are catching up to the more historical teams.

ormond lad

ormond lad wrote: »

Any underage representative team is rife with political picks and as more of the coaches/selectors of east munster 17s have been from the southern half of east munster than the northern half and the clubs that coaches are from will nearly always have a few players in a squad

skip64 wrote: »

Wow.. Not sure if you class Nenagh/Cashel as southern part of east Munster. Sometimes it's hard to accept that other clubs are catching up to the more historical teams.

Where did i say nenagh/cashel were in the southern half of east munster???

No, dungarvan and other clubs have improved in recent years but the facts are that the majority of coaches/selectors of east munster u17s for the past 7 age groups(players born in 89 to players born in 95)have been from clubs in the southern half of east munster(mainly dungarvan, waterpark and carrick on suir) and even taking account of waterparks 3 u16/17 munster titles in this time, some of the weaker clubs in the southern half have had more players picked in squads ahead of stronger players from clubs not represented by coaches. Politics are rife in these squads and some of the stronger clubs in the region over this time have had much less numbers than the weakers clubs in the region