Thank God he's not PRO anymore

Mardy Bum

hatz7 wrote: »

oh your way too late to be entering into this, go back to the start of the thread, read, if you have a brain, engage with it.

What point did you try to make with your post?

see a doctor lol

If you can't understand my posts on this thread already, I'd advise you to put a little thought into them instead of insulting everyone.

All you are doing is spouting repetitive ill-informed rhetoric without facts. You were presented with the financial records of the GAA which you seemingly dismissed. You are claiming influence in the GAA from those who are involved in periphery organisations also, who are they and what makes their influence negative? They may be very talented people. Are they fraudulent in some way?

I don't expect you to answer these points as they already have been put to you and all you seem to do is avoid them and insult other posters.

Grudaire

hatz7 wrote: »

...................

Well I could argue against shadows, but I'd rather not!

hatz7

Mardy Bum wrote: »

If you can't understand my posts on this thread already, I'd advise you to put a little thought into them instead of insulting everyone.

All you are doing is spouting repetitive ill-informed rhetoric without facts. You were presented with the financial records of the GAA which you seemingly dismissed. You are claiming influence in the GAA from those who are involved in periphery organisations also, who are they and what makes their influence negative? They may be very talented people. Are they fraudulent in some way?

I don't expect you to answer these points as they already have been put to you and all you seem to do is avoid them and insult other posters.

I dismissed the financial figures but also stated a reason for doing so.

Now you said "You are claiming influence in the GAA from those who are involved in periphery organisations also, who are they and what makes their influence negative? They may be very talented people. Are they fraudulent in some way?"

I did not say any of the above. If you understood (which lets face it, you did not)the post I had written, its clear that I suggested that DL may have been correct in what he said in the article

The final line of my post was a copy and paste job from the previous poster Mardy Bum who began her post to ME with 'see a doctor lol'

YOU who have avoided giving any answer to the questions I raised.
In all your posts you have not made any reference to DL, That just makes me think that maybe he is onto something.

insult other posters?
Your not worth insulting..

Mardy Bum

hatz7 wrote: »

I dismissed the financial figures but also stated a reason for doing so.

YOU who have avoided giving any answer to the questions I raised.
In all your posts you have not made any reference to DL, That just makes me think that maybe he is onto something.

Lets look at your reason for dismissing the figures

I do not take any figures that happen to be released from the GAA with anything other than a good laugh. I am a no expert, but I am of this land, and I know that it is best to take those figures with a pinch of salt.

Your reason is invalid. You are 'no expert... but of this land', come on thats not a reason. The figures are reciprocated in the other accounts of the organisations which receive money from the GAA. These accounts are audited.

You start off by saying :

I'm not sure at all, if what he said was true, but it wouldn't surprise me if what he said was true.

Various people replied to you but you refuse to listen to any of the arguments given re. Financial statements, the structure of the organisations, etc.

Now you said "You are claiming influence in the GAA from those who are involved in periphery organisations also, who are they and what makes their influence negative? They may be very talented people. Are they fraudulent in some way?"

I did not say any of the above. If you understood (which lets face it, you did not)the post I had written, its clear that I suggested that DL may have been correct in what he said in the article

But you have said this constantly and all you talk about is influence:

The 'why can't everyone just get along' argument can be answered by stating that the core sports are not being maximized to their full potential because of the influence of other codes within the top tier of power in the organization.

Whats the difference in what I said and what you said? 'Core sports not being maximised because of involvement of those from periphery sports' is exactly the same as what I said. Who is this phantom person who is influencing the GAA? I have answered your questions about influence.

This thread is about the article why would I reference him when this is exactly what the thread is about.

The final line of my post was a copy and paste job from the previous poster Mardy Bum who began her post to ME with 'see a doctor lol'

Where exactly do say 'lol'. I implied you have a chip on your shoulder.

insult other posters?
Your not worth insulting.

:rolleyes:

FYI bolding your posts does not strengthen your argument, it makes it look like you are in secondary school.

hatz7

Mardy Bum wrote: »

Lets look at your reason for dismissing the figures
Your reason is invalid. You are 'no expert... but of this land', come on thats not a reason. The figures are reciprocated in the other accounts of the organisations which receive money from the GAA. These accounts are audited.
You start off by saying :
Various people replied to you but you refuse to listen to any of the arguments given re. Financial statements, the structure of the organisations, etc.
But you have said this constantly and all you talk about is influence:
Whats the difference in what I said and what you said? 'Core sports not being maximised because of involvement of those from periphery sports' is exactly the same as what I said. Who is this phantom person who is influencing the GAA? I have answered your questions about influence.
his thread is about the article why would I reference him when this is exactly what the thread is about.
Where exactly do say 'lol'. I implied you have a chip on your shoulder.
:rolleyes:FYI bolding your posts does not strengthen your argument, it makes it look like you are in secondary school.

Dearest Lady,
I am satisfied that my contribution to this thread was positive.I didn't gain anything substantial from it, you didn't answer any queries or questions you were just pushing your own agenda. Your point blank refusal to engage in meaningful debate has therefore closed this thread.

Slan

Mardy Bum

I see you can't even read my post or engage in debate. Terrible troll!

Ignore/

Dionysus

Torlac wrote: »

Keeping in mind we are hosting the World Handball Championships in 2012 and the possibility of it being included in the Olympics handball players and fans should be glad to see the back of this gombeen :mad:

http://www.examiner.ie/ireland/drop-the-gaas-deadwood-declares-angry-lynch-149061.html

Good thread idea. There are so many aspects of our natives sports which have already been "forgotten" - the Tailteann Games spring immediately to mind - that I think they should make that extra effort for handball, rounders and the like. They add greatly to the richness of our sporting heritage.

Above all else, the GAA should be promoting hurling, though.

ArmaniJeanss

Torlac wrote: »

Keeping in mind we are hosting the World Handball Championships in 2012 and the possibility of it being included in the Olympics handball players and fans should be glad to see the back of this gombeen :mad:

Whats this about? Is there any actual real possibility of it being included in the Olympics? My gut feeling would be that a game played in tiny pockets in a handful of countries wouldn't have a snowballs chance of becoming an Olympic sport.

Which is not to say it wouldn't be as deserving of a place as say Archery or GrecoRoman wrestling, but they have the key advantage of being Olympic Sports already. I thought all new sports were going to be mass appeal sports (like Tennis, Golf etc).

Mardy Bum

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Whats this about? Is there any actual real possibility of it being included in the Olympics? My gut feeling would be that a game played in tiny pockets in a handful of countries wouldn't have a snowballs chance of becoming an Olympic sport.

Which is not to say it wouldn't be as deserving of a place as say Archery or GrecoRoman wrestling, but they have the key advantage of being Olympic Sports already. I thought all new sports were going to be mass appeal sports (like Tennis, Golf etc).

http://gaahandball.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1084:historic-progress-in-handball-olympic-bid&catid=34:news-archive

The article in the link above should clarify things for you. It is being played at the World Games in 2013 which is the platform where games are 'tested' before entry into the Olympics. It is 1 wall handball which will be played not the 4 wall game. 1 wall is huge in NY, take a look at the vid- http://vimeo.com/15605950

Torlac

hatz7 wrote: »

Why don't those other groups stand on their own two feet
Maybe as DL argued, those peripheral sports are ego trips for a small group of individuals, who wouldn't have an interest in leading a national organization of, for example, rounders, separately from the GAA.

Maybe it is time for a divorce, the GAA cannot be expected to commit itself to so many different sports/groups and deliver strong results across all codes.

And as importantly, would it not be in the interests of rounders et al to have their own separate national organizations that would focus specifically on their own codes?

hatz7 wrote: »

Analogy.(I don't even know if that's the right term)
GAA= big abusive daddy
Other sports= poor defenseless wife + kids

Ye are not being treated right with daddy spending all the wages on booze (football) and fags (hurling)

best option for ye?????????????????????????????????????????????????
Leave, no doubt, stand on yer own feet, get yer own acts together and pursue a happy life.

Yes the first step of separation, is the toughest, but then you will settle down again, return to normality and then grow!

I would argue that if you want to split the GAA into its own sports then it's only right that the football and hurling should be split from each other too.

Separation is the toughest step but hurling will settle down and return to normality.

It seems hard to justify all the money hurling gets when realisticly there are only 5 or 6 teams who can mount a challenge to with the All-Ireland!
That way then hurling could concentrate on its own code.

On a serious note though, the GAA is not football and hurling and a few other codes. It's all of them together.
We should be proud of all our codes. Especially when we have outstanding athletes flying the flag for us abroad in international competitions. How many World Champions have we in football and hurling?????
I know guys with All-Ireland medals and people would hardly acknowledge them but if the local football team won the county final the team would be "heros" for years to come. I don't think that will ever change and I'm not campaigning for it but give credit where it's due is all I'm saying.

So thats why I say thank God he's not PRO cause his attitude to the other codes is not the right message to be sending out imo

LeoB

This country would be in some mess if it were not for the G.A.A. The G.A.A are doing the work that should be done by several state bodies and this only dilutes what the association is about.

I think Danny is pretty bang on. The G.A.A has to many pulling at it for funding from all over the place and trying to accomadate to many who are on an ego trip as he puts it.

Grudaire

LeoB wrote: »

This country would be in some mess if it were not for the G.A.A. The G.A.A are doing the work that should be done by several state bodies and this only dilutes what the association is about.

I think Danny is pretty bang on. The G.A.A has to many pulling at it for funding from all over the place and trying to accomadate to many who are on an ego trip as he puts it.

:facepalm: (perhaps epic facepalm would be more appropriate)

The figures have been brought to the thread, they do not back that argument up.

nice_guy80

LeoB wrote: »

This country would be in some mess if it were not for the G.A.A. The G.A.A are doing the work that should be done by several state bodies and this only dilutes what the association is about.

I think Danny is pretty bang on. The G.A.A has to many pulling at it for funding from all over the place and trying to accomadate to many who are on an ego trip as he puts it.

Handball and Scor use up a tiny fraction of the GAA's overall budget

Maybe if Danny had looked at some of the main wastages in the GAA while he was PRO - counties developing big stadia for no reason. County managers being paid. The big expenses many officials claim and the big money wasted on annual banquets for this committee and that committee. (I'm off to find the annual spend in the GAA report) Junkets abroad by officials to various competitions and tournaments abroad.

LeoB

Cliste wrote: »

:facepalm: (perhaps epic facepalm would be more appropriate)

The figures have been brought to the thread, they do not back that argument up.

Where I am coming from on this is the G.A.A. simply cant sustain what is coming under its umbrella at the moment and not only Croke Pk but right down to club level.

Look at the costs incurred by an average size club in just staying afloat. My first point still stands re work being done by G.A.A.
The other units do have people on ego trips and why not the people who are interested in Music look for funding off Ceoltás? And btw I am not slagging any other unit of G.A.A I admire all the people who give their time all over the country for kids.

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Handball and Scor use up a tiny fraction of the GAA's overall budget.

I would prefer to see the G.A.A spend money on pitch (not grounds) developments, like floodlights, dugouts fencing around pitchs

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Maybe if Danny had looked at some of the main wastages in the GAA while he was PRO - counties developing big stadia for no reason. County managers being paid. The big expenses many officials claim and the big money wasted on annual banquets for this committee and that committee. (I'm off to find the annual spend in the GAA report) Junkets abroad by officials to various competitions and tournaments abroad.

Hard to argue with this. The money spent on county grounds is a waste. One and maybe two championship venues perprovince is plenty. Most counties would be happy to get 5-10,000 at league games so a smallish stand with a decent covered terrace would be plenty. Managers getting paid is wrong imo but fair expences I have no problem with but whats fair? If there is a conference on I have no problem with delegates getting fair expences either. Wonder if we have compliance officer to oversee these expences?

Health and safety and other regulations have cost the G.A.A a fortune because we constantly come under pressure to follow other codes and if we dont cull our outgoings clubs will suffer as the revenue will be there to filter down. Just an opinion mind you but I have been around long enough to see

I dont think Danny is ante anything more doing a Colm McCarthy on G.A.A funding

Mardy Bum

LeoB wrote: »

Where I am coming from on this is the G.A.A. simply cant sustain what is coming under its umbrella at the moment and not only Croke Pk but right down to club level.

Look at the costs incurred by an average size club in just staying afloat. My first point still stands re work being done by G.A.A.
The other units do have people on ego trips and why not the people who are interested in Music look for funding off Ceoltás? And btw I am not slagging any other unit of G.A.A I admire all the people who give their time all over the country for kids.


I dont think Danny is ante anything more doing a Colm McCarthy on G.A.A funding

Have you looked at any of the links provided which show the amount of money which the 'other' organisations get? It is minuscule.

Colm McCarthy is a world famous economist who knows what he is talking about Danny on the other hand appears to have a chip on his shoulder and as far I know doesn't have a Ph.D in economics.

Grudaire

LeoB wrote: »

I'm not going to listen to anything anyone says, lah, lah, lah, lah, lah, lah, lah, lah, lah, lah, lah, lah, lah, lah, lah, lah, lah, lah, lah, lah, lah, lah, lah, lah, lah, lah, lah, lah, lah, lah, lah, lah, lah, lah, lah, lah, lah, lahv, lah, lah, lah, lah, lah, lah, lah, lah, lah, lah, lah, lah, lah, lah, lah, lah, lah, lah, lah, lah, lah, lah, lah, lah, lah, lah, lah, lah, lah, lah, lah, lah, lah, lah, lah, lah, lah, lah, lah, lah, lah, lah, lah, lah, lah

You haven't said what money could be better spent elsewhere, the amount spent on the whole lot together might buy a set of flootlights - but wait then that money mightn't be got by the organisation.

You're acting like anyone who disagrees with you isn't an active member of a GAA club.

LeoB

Mardy Bum wrote: »

Have you looked at any of the links provided which show the amount of money which the 'other' organisations get? It is minuscule.

Colm McCarthy is a world famous economist who knows what he is talking about Danny on the other hand appears to have a chip on his shoulder and as far I know doesn't have a Ph.D in economics.

A lot of people would not agree with a lot of what Colm McCarthy has done or proposed.

As for the links I am fairly well aware of where monies go with the G.A.A all I am doing here if you read my post is giving another version/side and sorry if it does not agree with your mindset. Figures can be manipulated to read how you or I might the other to read them

Cliste wrote: »

You haven't said what money could be better spent elsewhere, the amount spent on the whole lot together might buy a set of flootlights - but wait then that money mightn't be got by the organisation.

You're acting like anyone who disagrees with you isn't an active member of a GAA club.

Dont know where you get that that idea in you last line. I have views and wont be stopped by you or anyone else from voicing them. You can disagre with them, thats fine but try and be a little more objective when putting your point accross instead of wasting people time.....bla, bla, bla....

As I stated earlier club facilities need to be developed in a big way. Dug outs, floodlights, changing rooms.

I agreed with the point made about €millions being wasted on development of big stadia when we need grounds to cater for crowds of 10 to 25,000 in most cases and maybe 1 or 2 provincial grounds. This where the biggest waste takes place in G.A.A with all counties feeling they should have a ground to cope with a provincial final.

Examples of this waste is look at the figures a stand alone N.F.L or N.H.L final would attract 15,000 to 30,000 so If Galway were playing Cork play it in Thurles or if Dublin were playing Kerry in football play it in Thurles also or Limerick. Look at what has been wasted on grounds projects/ developments in the last 15years and these grounds will be lucky to be filled once or twice every 2 years. Thats waste and maybe some money could have been used to develop club facilities further.

I think my views are realastic.

Mardy Bum

LeoB wrote: »

As for the links I am fairly well aware of where monies go with the G.A.A all I am doing here if you read my post is giving another version/side and sorry if it does not agree with your mindset. Figures can be manipulated to read how you or I might the other to read them

So you are well aware where every cent goes? Have you looked at the amount the different organisations get? It wouldn't be enough to do up one club let alone a few small clubs.

Another poster who believes the GAA are manipulating their accounts regarding expenditure you can't be serious? The accounts are reciprocated with the accounts of the different organisations which have dealings with the GAA.

LeoB

Mardy Bum wrote: »

So you are well aware where every cent goes? Have you looked at the amount the different organisations get? It wouldn't be enough to do up one club let alone a few small clubs.

Another poster who believes the GAA are manipulating their accounts regarding expenditure you can't be serious? The accounts are reciprocated with the accounts of the different organisations which have dealings with the GAA.

Please dont try and twist what I am saying.

I am not aware where every cent goes (Inever said I was aware, read the line again), either are you unless you work in Croke Park.

It is quite common when people/organisations/clubs are put under pressure they can move monies about in various accounts to suit their needs or wants at a particular time. Thats not illegal by the way and I am not suggesting for a moment the G.A.A would do such a thing

Mardy Bum

I am fairly well aware of where monies go with the G.A.A all I am doing here if you read my post is giving another version/side and sorry if it does not agree with your mindset. Figures can be manipulated to read how you or I might the other to read them

Thats what you said. You said figures can be manipulated. I am not twisting your words. Maybe your word are fairly ambiguous?

I didn't say I was aware of the monies spent personally. I did look at the accounts for the last few years so I have an educated opinion on it and not hearsay.

nice_guy80

I too have no problem with expenses - however, many officials are able to make money on the generous rates given.

They are also wined and dined at numerous lunches, dinners and banquets at the associations expense. Most counties have cut down on these exesses, but it continues especially at provincial and national level

If the likes of Handball and Scor are removed from the GAA association then we might as well be called the FAI

LeoB

Mardy Bum wrote: »

Thats what you said. You said figures can be manipulated. I am not twisting your words. Maybe your word are fairly ambiguous?

I didn't say I was aware of the monies spent personally. I did look at the accounts for the last few years so I have an educated opinion on it and not hearsay.

Look its common practice for monies to moved from one account to another to make things read a certain way. I have seen some accounts but am no accountant yet I could see things were done in a certain way to suit some peoples agendas.

Maybe I was a bit ambiguous/unclear as to what I said or how I said it but I would not be anti Handball, Scor or rounders.

nice_guy80 wrote: »

I too have no problem with expenses - however, many officials are able to make money on the generous rates given.

They are also wined and dined at numerous lunches, dinners and banquets at the associations expense. Most counties have cut down on these exesses, but it continues especially at provincial and national level

If the likes of Handball and Scor are removed from the GAA association then we might as well be called the FAI

I only dont have a problem with expense once they are fair.

Handball, Scor and rounders should be given the oppertunity to be stand alone sports within the umbrella of G.A.A and should also be able to get funding from Goverment bodies on this basis.

The whole organisation going as one unit will I think possibly get less.

Mardy Bum

LeoB wrote: »

Look its common practice for monies to moved from one account to another to make things read a certain way. I have seen some accounts but am no accountant yet I could see things were done in a certain way to suit some peoples agendas.

Maybe I was a bit ambiguous/unclear as to what I said or how I said it but I would not be anti Handball, Scor or rounders.



I only dont have a problem with expense once they are fair.

Handball, Scor and rounders should be given the oppertunity to be stand alone sports within the umbrella of G.A.A and should also be able to get funding from Goverment bodies on this basis.

The whole organisation going as one unit will I think possibly get less.

Each organisation has its own councils and gets its own grants from organisations like the National Sports Council of Ireland individually along with one stand alone grant from the GAA each year similar to football and hurling.

They are stand alone sports within the umbrella of the GAA.
The GAA was not set up just to cater for hurling and football.

LeoB

Does the Handball council, Rounders or Scor accounts show any signs of wasteage?

Mardy Bum

LeoB wrote: »

Does the Handball council, Rounders or Scor accounts show any signs of wasteage?

From the handball accounts of the last two years the only thing that I could fault it the expenditure on Meetings and Official Travel and a lack of grants to third level institutions. This is only a tiny amount considering what some football clubs owe around the country.

LeoB

Mardy Bum wrote: »

From the handball accounts of the last two years the only thing that I could fault it the expenditure on Meetings and Official Travel and a lack of grants to third level institutions. This is only a tiny amount considering what some football clubs owe around the country.

Expences are a nightmare in just about every organisation whether its sporting or not. When we talk about grants for third level we are getting into an area with a huge amount of issues all funding.

The fact of the matter is Gaelic football and Hurling are the main revenue streams for the G.A.A and so will always most likely dictate where money goes. The pecking order. We have this in all sports in the country.

Some G.A.A clubs made very foolish decisions over the last decade and how they will survive is beyond me. Do you think H.Q will help out Thos Davis or Portlaoise? Im in two minds as we are looking at a bill here of approx €8.5 million. Where will it stop then? If they bail them out what will happen to county boards? There will be no money left for clubs and counties who are working of a well thought out plan.

I think all clubs have a responsibility to promote and protect our Irish games and culture but if it is possible to assist the other organisations within the G.A.A to become self sufficant I think thats the way to go and I also think we have the companies in Ireland who can provide the required sponsorship and funding.

I may not have been very clear in my previous posts but I think we are going in the same direction just taking different routes.