Thank God he's not PRO anymore

Torlac

Keeping in mind we are hosting the World Handball Championships in 2012 and the possibility of it being included in the Olympics handball players and fans should be glad to see the back of this gombeen :mad:

http://www.examiner.ie/ireland/drop-the-gaas-deadwood-declares-angry-lynch-149061.html

keane2097

Find it hard to disagree with a lot of what he said there tbh.

The "ego trip for a small number of people" line rings pretty true.

folan

keane2097 wrote: »

The "ego trip for a small number of people" line rings pretty true.

i would agree, except its always been the GAAs job to promote this small sport to more people. they, and him, failed doing exactly what he is is suggesting in the article.

How many handball alleys have been built and promoted recently? hell, id never heard of it before 5 years back.

Torlac

well they have a big development going on at Croke Park at the min.
maybe he's sore about the money being spent on it.

keane2097

Torlac wrote: »

well they have a big development going on at Croke Park at the min.
maybe he's sore about the money being spent on it.

He probably is sore, I don't think he's particularly trying to hide the fact.

keane2097

folan wrote: »

i would agree, except its always been the GAAs job to promote this small sport to more people. they, and him, failed doing exactly what he is is suggesting in the article.

How many handball alleys have been built and promoted recently? hell, id never heard of it before 5 years back.

Well it depends.

Are these products that are worth promoting? If a game is to be pushed by the association it ought to be on some sort of merit.

I'm not convinced that something like rounders deserves to have any of the other games' money syphoned off into its promotion.

h2005

folan wrote: »

i would agree, except its always been the GAAs job to promote this small sport to more people. they, and him, failed doing exactly what he is is suggesting in the article.

How many handball alleys have been built and promoted recently? hell, id never heard of it before 5 years back.

Two in my town although one was by locals alone

Torlac

h2005 wrote: »

Two in my town although one was by locals alone

deadly, where is that btw?

h2005

Torlac wrote: »

deadly, where is that btw?

Moycullen, Galway

nice_guy80

There are over 150 handball clubs in the country apparently.

That doesn't sound like a small minority sport to me

keane2097

nice_guy80 wrote: »

There are over 150 handball clubs in the country apparently.

That doesn't sound like a small minority sport to me

It depends on how you measure it. The clubs thing is pretty vague.

Numbers playing it would be a more sensible metric, which could be pretty easily compared against other sports.

Torlac

it would be easy to compare but not an accurate reflection.
minimum 15 on a team as opposed to max of 2 in handball

keane2097

Torlac wrote: »

it would be easy to compare but not an accurate reflection.
minimum 15 on a team as opposed to max of 2 in handball

That's really not an issue at all.

Ash.J.Williams

Torlac wrote: »

Keeping in mind we are hosting the World Handball Championships in 2012 and the possibility of it being included in the Olympics handball players and fans should be glad to see the back of this gombeen :mad:

http://www.examiner.ie/ireland/drop-the-gaas-deadwood-declares-angry-lynch-149061.html

what will they call handball if it's "being included in the olympics"?

Torlac

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

what will they call handball if it's "being included in the olympics"?

Depends on which version gets in.
The "one-wall" handball is very popular. They could always it by court size.

Correct me of i'm wrong but is the other game of handball actuall called Olympic Handball ?

Ash.J.Williams

Torlac wrote: »

Depends on which version gets in.
The "one-wall" handball is very popular. They could always it by court size.

Correct me of i'm wrong but is the other game of handball actuall called Olympic Handball ?

i'm sure in the olympics it's just called "handball"

folan

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

i'm sure in the olympics it's just called "handball"

it is. Interesting question.

hatz7

Torlac wrote: »

Keeping in mind we are hosting the World Handball Championships in 2012 and the possibility of it being included in the Olympics handball players and fans should be glad to see the back of this gombeen :mad:

http://www.examiner.ie/ireland/drop-the-gaas-deadwood-declares-angry-lynch-149061.html

What makes him a gombeen? I read the article, nothing out of the ordinary, he has an opinion and he aired it.

I'm not sure at all, if what he said was true, but it wouldn't surprise me if what he said was true.

Grudaire

hatz7 wrote: »

I'm not sure at all, if what he said was true, but it wouldn't surprise me if what he said was true.

There's a lack of facts and figures from the whole thing - it is hard to get anything concrete from the whole thing. It's hard to take the article seriously when he is so vague when it comes to hard facts.

Breaking it down I'd be surprised how much the "peripherals" cost the core GAA games. I don't see any money being pumped at rounders in any significant amount, similarly for handball. As a handball player I'd like to point out that it's not free to play.
Before I would even take the article seriously I'd love if someone posted stats on any of the following:

• Central GAA money subsiding Handball/Rounders/Scór
• Central GAA Time/Effort on the "peripherals"
• Irish Language 'Quangos' (Note that GAA Clubs ar now required to have an Irish language officer - This is a voluntary, unpaid role)

This article is no more than the usual me-féin-ism that you see from every organisation. Just because he's given extra air time doesn't mean he should be!

btw: I agree completely with him on the sponsorship - The GAA should be allowed to accept their sponsorship money without the hastle

Mardy Bum

The financial statement by from the Handball council is up. GAA Grants from 2010 amounted to €227,000. I fail to see how this is some colossal amount of money that needs to be curved. It is a fifth of the Irish Sporting Council's 'Games Development Grant' which the GAA received in 2009 which amounted to €1,187,000.

The new 'Handball Centre' which may not even be built is also going to house a whole floor of GAA admin offices so this is not purely a kind hearted donation from the GAA. It will also be the GAA first direct input into the infrastructure of the game in decades.

This man has a chip on his shoulder.

keane2097

Mardy Bum wrote: »

The financial statement by from the Handball council is up. GAA Grants from 2010 amounted to €227,000. I fail to see how this is some colossal amount of money that needs to be curved. It is a fifth of the Irish Sporting Council's 'Games Development Grant' which the GAA received in 2009 which amounted to €1,187,000.

The new 'Handball Centre' which may not even be built is also going to house a whole floor of GAA admin offices so this is not purely a kind hearted donation from the GAA. It will also be the GAA first direct input into the infrastructure of the game in decades.

This man has a chip on his shoulder.

I would have thought a fifth was a fairly massive proportion in the circumstances no?

Mardy Bum

keane2097 wrote: »

I would have thought a fifth was a fairly massive proportion in the circumstances no?

The figure does not include Hurling which received 1,115,000 alone as part of their Sports Council grant in 2009. This is just the Sports Council grant which is only a tiny drop in the GAAs income. Link to GAA financial report


This is the only grant they receive. Club teams spend over that in their budget easily every year.
To put it into perspective turnover by the GAA in 2009 was €50.8 with profits at 21.5 million surely a tiny bit of this can be spent on promotion of the minority sports.
Sure it is not even much more than Christy Cooney's wage.

keane2097

Point well taken, ty for the clarification.

yahoo_moe

Poor form to say that the GAA shouldn't try to tackle rural isolation... it mightn't be their key responsibility but I think it's a great initiative and would like to see more effort put behind it, not less.

hatz7

Cliste wrote: »

There's a lack of facts and figures from the whole thing - it is hard to get anything concrete from the whole thing. It's hard to take the article seriously when he is so vague when it comes to hard facts.

Breaking it down I'd be surprised how much the "peripherals" cost the core GAA games. I don't see any money being pumped at rounders in any significant amount, similarly for handball. As a handball player I'd like to point out that it's not free to play.
Before I would even take the article seriously I'd love if someone posted stats on any of the following:

• Central GAA money subsiding Handball/Rounders/Scór
• Central GAA Time/Effort on the "peripherals"
• Irish Language 'Quangos' (Note that GAA Clubs ar now required to have an Irish language officer - This is a voluntary, unpaid role)

This article is no more than the usual me-féin-ism that you see from every organisation. Just because he's given extra air time doesn't mean he should be!

btw: I agree completely with him on the sponsorship - The GAA should be allowed to accept their sponsorship money without the hastle

If the 'peripherals' have a greater influence in the power structure of the GAA than their numbers merit, then its only right that this issue should be highlighted. I had never heard that argument before, but if offers food for thought.

Your talk of hard facts and figures is meaningless, when one considers we are talking about the GAA here. I am not trying to be smart, I am being deadly serious.

It is logical that the GAA should stick to its core sports. Hurling and Football,male/female. I'm not saying its right, but it is logical.

Why don't those other groups stand on their own two feet
Maybe as DL argued, those peripheral sports are ego trips for a small group of individuals, who wouldn't have an interest in leading a national organization of, for example, rounders, separately from the GAA.

Maybe it is time for a divorce, the GAA cannot be expected to commit itself to so many different sports/groups and deliver strong results across all codes.

And as importantly, would it not be in the interests of rounders et al to have their own separate national organizations that would focus specifically on their own codes?

I would argue that the article is deserved of far more consideration than you wish to admit.

I'm glad we all agree that the GAA should not have any hassle regarding sponsorship.

Grudaire

Given that you're just supplying words I'd like to emphasise that my point stands - there has been no evidence to show that Central GAA money, or time/effort is being disproportionally spent on the "peripherals". Untill I see that there's plenty of REAL problems to be dealt with.


Also, another thing I'd just like to point out is that it's poor form for people to use the term "peripherals". It achieves nothing more than being a divisive use of language that will get peoples backs up against a wall.
The GAA is the GAA - every bit of it is the GAA. CLG is the GAA, GAA Handball is the GAA, etc etc. People like to think that it's made of seperate entities, but I think we should view it as an entity that plays several sports.
Dividing the GAA isn't really the solution, and indeed it would be questionable as to would get the honour of keeping the name! :pac: But seriously the current structure of the GAA means that only two codes (namely Hurling and Mens Football) come under central GAA rule. Handball etc all have their own Ard Chomhairle and staff, and as such take care of themselves.

Why can't we work together to keep players within the GAA - different sports suit different people.

PS: If you go to the GAA website (namely this page: http://www.gaa.ie/about-the-gaa/publications-and-resources/0/0/1/ ) You can see some hard facts and figures in the annual report.

hatz7

If there is any money at all being spent that is not directly related to Hurling& Football (male + female) then, That would be the grounds for arguing that the other codes should remove themselves from under the umbrella of the GAA.

I used the term peripherals because that was the term used in the previous post. There isn't (although should be) a font or whatever to denote the sarcasm of that previous poster.

The argument about the naming rights of the organization is weak and can be considered no more than mere parish politics.
The 'why can't everyone just get along' argument can be answered by stating that the core sports are not being maximized to their full potential because of the influence of other codes within the top tier of power in the organization.
It is quite illogical for 1 sporting body to be in control of so many different codes.The delivery of service is negatively effected.
Kinda like the HSE in a way, too big, too broad, no accountability, impossible to get anything done or changed.

Grudaire

hatz7 wrote: »

If there is any money at all being spent that is not directly related to Hurling& Football (male + female) then, That would be the grounds for arguing that the other codes should remove themselves from under the umbrella of the GAA.

But then you have to question where the money comes from. It's not like the GAA as an organisation doesn't get any money for promoting several sports. Don't make an argument if you can't be arsed clicking a link (that I kindly provided) that will give you the basis for that argument.

Various grants recieved by the GAA: nearly €4million (approx €3mill from the sports council of Ireland)

~ €60,000 given to Scór and "Costaisí Cultúrtha" from central GAA funds where roughly the same amount was granted by the Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs in 2010)

~*€230,000 given to the "peripherals" Liathróid Láimhe and Chluichí Corr (against the €3mill granted by the sports council)

So in summary - WTF are you on about?

hatz7 wrote: »

The argument about the naming rights of the organization is weak and can be considered no more than mere parish politics.
The 'why can't everyone just get along' argument can be answered by stating that the core sports are not being maximized to their full potential because of the influence of other codes within the top tier of power in the organization.
It is quite illogical for 1 sporting body to be in control of so many different codes.The delivery of service is negatively effected.
Kinda like the HSE in a way, too big, too broad, no accountability, impossible to get anything done or changed.

And yet the GAA is by far the most effective sporting organisation in Ireland. Why change what works?

hatz7

Cliste wrote: »

But then you have to question where the money comes from. It's not like the GAA as an organisation doesn't get any money for promoting several sports. Don't make an argument if you can't be arsed clicking a link (that I kindly provided) that will give you the basis for that argument.
Various grants recieved by the GAA: nearly €4million (approx €3mill from the sports council of Ireland)
~ €60,000 given to Scór and "Costaisí Cultúrtha" from central GAA funds where roughly the same amount was granted by the Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs in 2010)
~*€230,000 given to the "peripherals" Liathróid Láimhe and Chluichí Corr (against the €3mill granted by the sports council)
So in summary - WTF are you on about?
And yet the GAA is by far the most effective sporting organisation in Ireland. Why change what works?

Ah your getting bitter now!! bless ya.

What I am arguing is that 'Influence' within the decision making structure of the GAA is an important issue that should be debated.

Now your reluctance to speak of influence, such as the type that DL mentioned, is making me think that, maybe he is onto something.
DL argued that the other codes have too much influence within the GAA.
Maybe they do, because, if this is how a handball player (you) engages in public debate, then it makes me wonder how that handball leader would act when sitting at the top table in the decision making process.

I do not take any figures that happen to be released from the GAA with anything other than a good laugh. I am a no expert, but I am of this land, and I know that it is best to take those figures with a pinch of salt.

Your last sentence is most illuminating, why change what works?
DL wouldn't have spoken out it everything works.
In fact everything quite clearly doesn't work, if the other sports are neglected so bad, why would ye even want to stay with the GAA???????? answer that.

Analogy.(I don't even know if that's the right term)
GAA= big abusive daddy
Other sports= poor defenseless wife + kids

Ye are not being treated right with daddy spending all the wages on booze (football) and fags (hurling)

best option for ye?????????????????????????????????????????????????
Leave, no doubt, stand on yer own feet, get yer own acts together and pursue a happy life.

Yes the first step of separation, is the toughest, but then you will settle down again, return to normality and then grow!

Read the last post again and you may get a better understanding of what I was trying to get across.
I have an awful feeling that there must be some personal or family HSE link there somewhere...

Now, no more of that language outa you either.

So in summary, what are you on about?

Mardy Bum

hatz7 wrote: »

Ah your getting bitter now!! bless ya.

What I am arguing is that 'Influence' within the decision making structure of the GAA is an important issue that should be debated.

Now your reluctance to speak of influence, such as the type that DL mentioned, is making me think that, maybe he is onto something.
DL argued that the other codes have too much influence within the GAA.
Maybe they do, because, if this is how a handball player (you) engages in public debate, then it makes me wonder how that handball leader would act when sitting at the top table in the decision making process.

I do not take any figures that happen to be released from the GAA with anything other than a good laugh. I am a no expert, but I am of this land, and I know that it is best to take those figures with a pinch of salt.

Your last sentence is most illuminating, why change what works?
DL wouldn't have spoken out it everything works.
In fact everything quite clearly doesn't work, if the other sports are neglected so bad, why would ye even want to stay with the GAA???????? answer that.

Analogy.(I don't even know if that's the right term)
GAA= big abusive daddy
Other sports= poor defenseless wife + kids

Ye are not being treated right with daddy spending all the wages on booze (football) and fags (hurling)

best option for ye?????????????????????????????????????????????????
Leave, no doubt, stand on yer own feet, get yer own acts together and pursue a happy life.

Yes the first step of separation, is the toughest, but then you will settle down again, return to normality and then grow!

Read the last post again and you may get a better understanding of what I was trying to get across.
I have an awful feeling that there must be some personal or family HSE link there somewhere...

Now, no more of that language outa you either.

So in summary, what are you on about?

You should see a doctor about that chip on your shoulder.
You don't trust the figures which the GAA publish yearly? Good man :rolleyes:. No one is complaining about the lack of money being spent. The GAA gives a small grant yearly to the different organisations compared to what it takes in profit over the course of the year from all of its activities.

What person is exerting their influence on the GAA negatively?

hatz7

Mardy Bum wrote: »

You should see a doctor about that chip on your shoulder.
You don't trust the figures which the GAA publish yearly? Good man :rolleyes:. No one is complaining about the lack of money being spent. The GAA gives a small grant yearly to the different organisations compared to what it takes in profit over the course of the year from all of its activities.

What person is exerting their influence on the GAA negatively?

oh your way too late to be entering into this, go back to the start of the thread, read, if you have a brain, engage with it.

What point did you try to make with your post?

see a doctor lol