Irish Rail - a ripoff and a shambles

Noo

I live in the midlands but travel to the big schmoke every weekend. The train is so frustrating, you just trod along waiting for the pick up in speed that never happens. One time there wasnt a train at the time i needed so I got the bus, it was well cheaper and got me to Dublin faster than the train ever did. I havent got the train since.

BenShermin

Carawaystick wrote: »

Firstly, I think you'll find Belfast is a bit bigger than Cork.

Last time I looked at fares between Dublin and Cork, IÉ were more than twice the price of Ryanair, and over 70 return. FR was 34 return all in.

Me, Mrs. Carawaystick and Little Miss Carawaystick got a train from Luxemburg to Paris recently for 58 euros all in. It's about 2 times the distance and only takes 2 hours by train, compared to Dublin to Cork.

I think you'll find that the name of this country is Ireland, Belfast is in the United Kingdom.

With regards your Paris - Luxemburg comparision, that train travels on the fastest track in Europe at 350kph it's a fantastic way to travel, IF you are able to book in advance! The last I heard the walk up fare is around €98 single, and sometimes the walk up fare is not even available because the train is full and there is no seats left.

tweedledee wrote: »

Irish rail???????????,hahhahahahahahahhahahahhahahahaha,what a fecking joke of a company!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Cork to Dublin very recently,,,,,,78 yoyos,the PREMIUM high speed train travelled at 40 kph all the way.WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!we were one hour late??????never again,total pisstake.Normally fly with Ryanair,max ever 40 yoyo return and never late.

Quite frankly this is bull. Tomorrows ONLY Ryanair flight from Dublin to Cork is priced at €53.47 not including credit card and baggage fees if applicable. 14 trains will travel from Dublin to Cork tomorrow and the maximum fare on any of these trains booked online is €36 at the moment less the €2/€3 card charge!!

I can't prove it, but my last Ryanair flight from Dublin to Cork was delayed 25 minutes, no apology whatsoever!

Terrontress wrote: »

It doesn't even matter if it is, his comparison is still nonsense.

Berlin to Munich is about 600km. Barcelona to Madrid is 650km. Paris to Marseille is 800km. Yet because they are the two biggest population centres in a Western European country he thinks there is a valid price comparison between the 800km Paris - Marseille and the 200km Dublin - Cork.

Never mind the quality of the rolling stock and tracks.

If we take simular milage into it and compare online fares, last minute Dusseldorf to Frankfurt am Main tickets will knock you back €75 single.
Manchester to London is £69 single off peak, or if you need that peak morning service you'll pay £139.50 single. I can get you loads more comparisions that will prove Irish Rail is one of the cheapest intercity companies.

Anyway, I never brought milage into it and nor did I mention IÉs track state or rolling stock. In fact I said that Irish Rails intercity fares are probably the "only" positive thing about the company.
I can guarantee though that even even Iarnród Éireann had rolling stock like TGV or ICE and fares were down by 50% you'd still have people like the OP moaning about price even though THEY are in the wrong:rolleyes:!!

parsi

BenShermin wrote: »

With regards your Paris - Luxemburg comparision, that train travels on the fastest track in Europe at 350kph it's a fantastic way to travel, IF you are able to book in advance! The last I heard the walk up fare is around €98 single, and sometimes the walk up fare is not even available because the train is full and there is no seats left.

That'a a brilliant route (well the LGV portion) but the trains do fill up and the promo fares drop quickly.

BenShermin wrote: »

I can't prove it, but my last Ryanair flight from Dublin to Cork was delayed 25 minutes, no apology whatsoever!

The Cork - Dublin flight is rarely late to be honest because they timetable a massive amount of time for the journey which allows plenty of time for delays. If IE added 10 mins to their published schedule then they'd have way more on-time arrivals.

Carawaystick

parsi wrote: »

. If IE added 10 mins to their published schedule then they'd have way more on-time arrivals.

IÉ don't need to add ten minutes to their schedule. They have simply redefined on time as being less than ten minutes late....



Ben, I think you'll find Belfast is in Ireland, same as Glasgow is in Scotland and Cardiff is in Wales, and London is in England.

Rabble Rabble

The trains to Belfast are operated by two providers, one British (NI Railway) Not really a fair comparison for Irish Rail then.

We would have to stay within the Republic for a control ( to compare Irish Rail with providers elsewhere) as NI Railway may be the cost.

Anyway I think we have already worked out that the rules the OP is complaining about apply on most European trains, and the fee is much larger on most of them.

HivemindXX

I has a similar situation coming from Cork a while ago.

I had booked a return trip online to get a cheaper rate and this involved specifying the exact trains I wanted to use. When I was returning I was able to get to the station earlier than I had thought and asked the staff if I could change my ticket to a different train. I would not have been surprised to be told no. As it was I was pretty happy to pay the €6 to get home an hour earlier. The option of sticking to the agreement I had made so that I could save money was there or course, I could have saved myself the six euro by sitting around in Cork for an extra hour if I had wanted to.

Similarly on a previous occasion I had bought a weekly return at the station and ended up staying 10 days in Cork instead. I asked the staff if I could change my ticket (which was now expired) to a monthly return and I was able to pay the difference between the two tickets to do so, no additional 'admin' charge for this.

I actually have quite a good view of Irish Rails ticketing operation because of this. In both cases I wanted to change the deal I had made and was allowed to do so for a nominal fee. In both cases Irish Rail would have been within their rights to simply tell me no. Certainly if I had simply assumed that it would be OK for me to change the deal for free and gotten on the train with an invalid ticket it would have been within their rights to fine me.

munchkin_utd

HivemindXX wrote: »

<snip> As it was I was pretty happy to pay the €6 to get home an hour earlier. The option of sticking to the agreement I had made so that I could save money was there or course, I could have saved myself the six euro by sitting around in Cork for an extra hour if I had wanted to.<snip>

I should also mention.

Abroad (allegedly a utopia for cheap tickets!) if you have a promotional ticket, you normally CANNOT change it under any circumstances.

i.e. If I have a one way from Munich to Frankfurt booked WELL IN ADVANCE for 1pm for say the 29 Euro saver deal, but decide I'd like to go at 11 instead, I :
a) lose all value on the 29 Euro ticket - its gone.
b) pay the 91 Euro regular price in full !

Irish rail allowing you to change for a measly insignificant 6 euros must be one of the best deals in Europe. I cant think of any other country that has such FLEXIBLE consumer friendly conditions!!

Zoney

Not only that, but IÉ's €6 fee for booking changes means that if you are about to catch a train (e.g. in an hours time - so your only option normally is a ticket at the station) you can book a later off-peak train cheaply online and pay the €6 fee at the desk before boarding to still get a pretty good deal compared to just buying a ticket there and then for the train about to depart.

Agree with some other posters than on a European context, it's really rather cheap in many contexts. Of course it being good value is dependent on things like trains arriving at a sensible time or not being full of drunkards or having functional toilets. Even at that, it's perhaps a case of getting what you pay for. Nicer services abroad do in many cases cost more.

In fairness, I find dealing with the online booking system pretty handy with IÉ and generally you have a pleasant comfortable journey unlike the bus. Indeed it can be more relaxed than a car journey.

The catering is appalling though and it seems to even be getting worse. I thought it couldn't get worse than the old catering company, but yes, it can. Life's too short to relate some incidents in the past year (pretty grim stuff). Needless to say I've pretty much given up on the service given most stations still have reasonable enough options for food/drink.

penexpers

Carawaystick wrote: »

IÉ don't need to add ten minutes to their schedule. They have simply redefined on time as being less than ten minutes late....

That's an international standard...

foggy_lad

Zoney wrote: »

Not only that, but IÉ's €6 fee for booking changes means that if you are about to catch a train (e.g. in an hours time - so your only option normally is a ticket at the station) you can book a later off-peak train cheaply online and pay the €6 fee at the desk before boarding to still get a pretty good deal compared to just buying a ticket there and then for the train about to depart.

Agree with some other posters than on a European context, it's really rather cheap in many contexts. Of course it being good value is dependent on things like trains arriving at a sensible time or not being full of drunkards or having functional toilets. Even at that, it's perhaps a case of getting what you pay for. Nicer services abroad do in many cases cost more.

In fairness, I find dealing with the online booking system pretty handy with IÉ and generally you have a pleasant comfortable journey unlike the bus. Indeed it can be more relaxed than a car journey.

The catering is appalling though and it seems to even be getting worse. I thought it couldn't get worse than the old catering company, but yes, it can. Life's too short to relate some incidents in the past year (pretty grim stuff). Needless to say I've pretty much given up on the service given most stations still have reasonable enough options for food/drink.

Afaik the €6 charge is not a set fee for changing an online booking but will differ depending on the price of the ticket you want to change to.

While it seems cheap in a European context it is not one bit cheap in relation to other transport options within the state especially considering the reality of poor timekeeping and reliability which Irish Rail work tirelessly on hiding by juggling their statistics and only measuring punctuality at terminii instead of at intermediate stations.

Yes the online booking syatem is very handy and seems easy to use considering there is very little information on tickets and their booking office prices available online.

mickydoomsux

foggy_lad wrote: »

....the reality of poor timekeeping and reliability which Irish Rail work tirelessly on hiding by juggling their statistics and only measuring punctuality at terminii instead of at intermediate stations.

Wrong again. There's a record of arrival and departure times kept in each and every station in the network for every service, every day.

jahalpin

foggy_lad wrote: »

It is still a lot faster than any of the knackered old mark4 sets which Irish Rail have on offer and you can set your watch by trains even in intermediate stations!

I got a 22000 Cork to Dublin yesterday due to a mark4 set breaking down in Templemore whigh buggered up all trains for several hours and instead of it being like the old mark4 trains and being late in every station except Cork it was on time along the whole journey and even made extra stops(3) in Portarlington, Kildare and Newbridge.

The mark4 fleet should be limited to non-stop intercity routes only such as dublin to cork non-stop or Dublin-Belfast non-stop as they are not capable of keeping to any timetable when used as a stopping serv

Irish Rail are trying to be like major European players when all they have is a collection of poorly alligned and laid out branch lines which are overpriced and overregulated to such an extent that customers who make genuine mistakes are penalised to such an extent they stop using the railways.

The Mark 4 trains are still very new. The expected life of a carraige is over 30 years and these are only 2 or 3 years old. In fact the Irish Rail fleet is probably the youngest in Europe, if not the world.

I have gotten the Mark 4's a few times recently and have been quite impressed with them. The seat reservations are well managed and everybody, except OAP's and other free travel pass holders , sits in their assigned seats.

The Irish Rail fares are quite reasonable. I was able to get a return to Killarney on a Saturday for only 20euro a few weeks ago

parsi

Carawaystick wrote: »

IÉ don't need to add ten minutes to their schedule. They have simply redefined on time as being less than ten minutes late....

If they added on the ten minutes then there'd be no need to squabble about what actually constitutes late arrivals - this is the tack Ryanair take.

@jahalpin - the Mark IVs are grand but once you get behind the eye-candy they're not very special and in parts the ride is very hard (as the actress said to the bishop).

foggy_lad

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Wrong again. There's a record of arrival and departure times kept in each and every station in the network for every service, every day.

so why not use these figures when calculating punctuality? how many Cork trains that stopped in Portlaoise or Portarlington arrived there on time or before time in the last week/month/year.

jahalpin wrote: »

The Mark 4 trains are still very new. The expected life of a carraige is over 30 years and these are only 2 or 3 years old. In fact the Irish Rail fleet is probably the youngest in Europe, if not the world.

I have gotten the Mark 4's a few times recently and have been quite impressed with them. The seat reservations are well managed and everybody, except OAP's and other free travel pass holders , sits in their assigned seats. the 22000's have power points at all seats while the old mark4's only have one per carriage.

The Irish Rail fares are quite reasonable. I was able to get a return to Killarney on a Saturday for only 20euro a few weeks ago

These were built 2004-2005 so are a bit older than you think but already the seats are faded looking and wearing down at the seams making them look very shabby, the ride is very uncomfortable but this has more to do with the seating position and no proper back support than the rocky jerky ride of the train. These trains are a lot slower when they have to stop at any stations between Cork and Dublin while the newer 22000's are a lot faster pulling away from stations and a lot better at stopping and the ride quality is better as are the seats and airconditioning on board.

Carawaystick

penexpers wrote: »

That's an international standard...

RENFE refund any AVE passenger in full if the train in more than 5 minutes late.

Which is another standard.

dowlingm

The thing is though the 3s had exceptional ride qualities which covered up IE's crappy rail maintenance regime. While in public they're saying we're getting CAF to fix it the laying of UIC60 says to me they know they can't get away with poor quality poorly maintained track like they used.

CommuterIE

tweedledee wrote: »

Irish rail???????????,hahhahahahahahahhahahahhahahahaha,what a fecking joke of a company!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Cork to Dublin very recently,,,,,,78 yoyos,the PREMIUM high speed train travelled at 40 kph all the way.WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!we were one hour late??????never again,total pisstake.Normally fly with Ryanair,max ever 40 yoyo return and never late.

awesome

corktina

Carawaystick wrote: »

RENFE refund any AVE passenger in full if the train in more than 5 minutes late.

Which is another standard.

how would IE compensate the 50% or so of passengers who dont pay?

n97 mini

Judgement Day wrote: »

Yeah, you can't beat the bus for lack of toilets/catering/leg room/tables, camaraderie, driver's choice of music blaring, thrill seeking brake applications, coughing and spluttering of other passengers, body odour etc.etc. I love the vomit comet. :rolleyes:

When I was a student I used get the train because it had those things going for it over the bus. Now that I'm a bit (a lot) older and wiser I don't travel by train as I won't pay over the odds for piss-covered toilets with no bog roll or hot water, overpriced microwaved crap they call food, tables that are only big enough if you're not sharing one with other people, and the only camaraderie was when everyone was bitching about the delays or over-crowding.

Seriously, there's a bit of rose tintedness going on there. The rest of the world has moved on, the trains haven't. Motorways to every city. Cheap buses with aircon, movies and wifi. And on the longer routes Ryanair is usually faster and cheaper. That's not to mention that the car is usually the cheapest and quickest of the lot, especially if you are bringing the family.

Judgement Day

I don't know what buses you travel on but I can assure you that the ones on the Dublin/Rosslare route do not have inflight movies or Free WiFi - we're lucky to have wheels on them.

Here's an 'interesting' link that I came across while checking up on buses. There's only one thing worse than a trainspotter.

http://irishtransport.yuku.com/directory

n97 mini

Judgement Day wrote: »

I don't know what buses you travel on but I can assure you that the ones on the Dublin/Rosslare route do not have inflight movies or Free WiFi - we're lucky to have wheels on them.

Try buses going to more popular destinations, e.g. Galway.

Thoie

While IE are not perfect, they have improved vastly over the last 10 years, and hopefully will continue to improve. It was not unusual to be sworn at by IE staff in the past - at least these days they generally answer questions civilly.

A lot of people were complaining about crowding and delays in the run up to Christmas because of the snow, yet the majority of these people obviously hadn't taken a train in years, and turned to the trains at the last minute because other services weren't running. Due to the weather I left ridiculously early to catch my prebooked train, and found myself at the train station over an hour early. I went to the ticket desk to switch to an earlier train, where the change fee was waived because "all we want to do is get everyone home"

I had switched from IE to Ryanair for a few years as Ryanair was generally faster and cheaper, however by the time you factor in getting to the airport, hanging around for 7 years, and being limited to carrying nothing but a pair of knickers, I find the train far more convenient these days, and at least they don't arrest you for bringing a bottle of water with you.

Areas remaining for improvement:

• Regular cleaning of the toilets during journeys.
• Stricter enforcement of reservations.
• Consider building the booking fee/handling charge into their fare structure.

DWCommuter

Thoie wrote: »

While IE are not perfect, they have improved vastly over the last 10 years, and hopefully will continue to improve. It was not unusual to be sworn at by IE staff in the past - at least these days they generally answer questions civilly.

A lot of people were complaining about crowding and delays in the run up to Christmas because of the snow, yet the majority of these people obviously hadn't taken a train in years, and turned to the trains at the last minute because other services weren't running. Due to the weather I left ridiculously early to catch my prebooked train, and found myself at the train station over an hour early. I went to the ticket desk to switch to an earlier train, where the change fee was waived because "all we want to do is get everyone home"

I had switched from IE to Ryanair for a few years as Ryanair was generally faster and cheaper, however by the time you factor in getting to the airport, hanging around for 7 years, and being limited to carrying nothing but a pair of knickers, I find the train far more convenient these days, and at least they don't arrest you for bringing a bottle of water with you.

Areas remaining for improvement:

• Regular cleaning of the toilets during journeys.
• Stricter enforcement of reservations.
• Consider building the booking fee/handling charge into their fare structure.

Two points.

hopefully will continue to improve.

Not a hope. Since the good times have gone, IE will revert to form and supply a ****e service because the state has no more money to throw at them and they can't comprehend running their business like a ...ahem....business. (and they never will)

Areas remaining for improvement:
Regular cleaning of the toilets during journeys.
Stricter enforcement of reservations.
Consider building the booking fee/handling charge into their fare structure.

Basic stuff that IE cannot and will not ever get right in a consistent manner.

questionmark?

Rabble Rabble wrote: »

On the Bristol to London train I take - which is about £34 single offpeak, or £100+ on peak for a 1h 25m journey, the fine for taking the early or later train to the ticket is the forced purchase of anytime ticket, which costs £84.50.

This happens a lot.

Off peak single can be got for £19.50 from Bristol to Paddington

http://www.buytickets.firstgreatwestern.co.uk/combinedmatrix.aspx?Command=TimeTable

Some price's are high but the train travels faster and the staff arent as rude as those on Irish rail. Also the trains tends to run on time.

People don't use Irish Rail because its too expensive, too slow and unreliable if your stuck to a strict time schedule.

Remember paying €70 return from Tralee to Dublin booked in advance off peak. If it was a Japenease bullet train I would have gladly payed it but i've seeing Gee Whizz's go faster.

Tragedy

Any cheap(promo fare) train I've gotten has been half empty. Compare like with like, when comparing ticket prices

i.e. things like:
Time of day
Passenger usage
Speed of train
Length of journey

etc

parsi

Judgement Day wrote: »

I don't know what buses you travel on but I can assure you that the ones on the Dublin/Rosslare route do not have inflight movies or Free WiFi - we're lucky to have wheels on them.

The AirCoach between Cork - Dublin has free wifi alright. I took it from Cork to Dublin Airport in January and it was a looong journey. Luckily I didn't have someone squashed in beside me and luckily there weren't any smelly folk on board. Still have to laugh at the whole idea of a comfort stop outside a petrol station in Urlingford - seems antiquated.

Judgement Day

parsi wrote: »

The AirCoach between Cork - Dublin has free wifi alright. I took it from Cork to Dublin Airport in January and it was a looong journey. Luckily I didn't have someone squashed in beside me and luckily there weren't any smelly folk on board. Still have to laugh at the whole idea of a comfort stop outside a petrol station in Urlingford - seems antiquated.

Des - you're so scabby, you wouldn't spend Christmas. For God's sake go 1st on the train and lash out.

parsi

Judgement Day wrote: »

Des - you're so scabby, you wouldn't spend Christmas. For God's sake go 1st on the train and lash out.

Ah now David...

I hadn't heard that expression before

n97 mini

Thoie wrote: »

While IE are not perfect, they have improved vastly over the last 10 years,

Not meaning to sound cynical, but the only area they have moved on is that some trains are now as new as the buses they're competing with. The toilets are still covered in piss and in a lot of cases you can't buy overpriced microwaved crap any more.

They've also taken some seriously retrograde steps, like moving Rosslare Europort station away from the ferry terminal (I mean, wtf, and they own the ferry terminal), using uncomfortable commuter trains on long distance runs, building new commuter stations with lovely indoor heated facilities for staff but not even a seat for customers who have to wait outside in the rain...

Zebra3

I was in Pearse station on Saturday evening at about 22:15 waiting to get the Maynooth train (due at 22:20) home.

The display in the train station said the next Maynooth train was due at around 22:45 so I approached a member of IE staff who was at the ticket barriers....

Me:What's the story with the next Maynooth train?
IE:It'll be here in a coupel of minutes.
Me:The display says it won't be here for another half an hour or so.
IE:It's wrong. They pulled the Maynooth train to let another DART through.
Me:Why is the display wrong then?
IE:I don't know.
Me:Why wasn't there an announcement made?
IE:I don't know.
Me:Why did they change the timetable and delay the Maynooth train?
IE:I don't know.

The train eventually turned up five minutes late with no explanation over the PA in the station or on the train as to why the train was late. :rolleyes: